Ramadan: the fasting test! try it
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peace all,
I cant recall if this has been discussed before, but here is a simple test you can try with Traditional Muslims...
Anyone who has ever read The Quran, specifically 2187 will know that morning twilight (click for pic) is the time to begin abstinence/fast.
...You may eat and drink until becomes distinct to you the white thread from the black thread of dawn...
For a reasonable picture of the above phenomenon, click here.
However, some/most stop eating/drinking when the adhan/azan (call to prayer) is made for Fajr prayer OR stop 60-120mins before sunrise according to various timetables, BUT almost always this time is when it is still pitch black night.
The Test
Now, many do the above without understanding what the actual guideline is and think that the above is the rule. They do not realise the above is primarily done so that people stop eating and have enough time to get to the local Mosque for communal prayer when the adhan/azan sounds, rather than missing it. If you are fasting with others, and they do the above, simply point this out to them, even show them The Quran verse, and if you are NOT going to be attending the local Mosque for communal prayer then eat/drink until morning twilight as per Quran and see what happens. You may be told you are doing it incorrectly OR those you have just told will not eat/drink until morning twilight as per Quran. This is a nice and simple test to determine what people really follow.
Try it, let us know what happens.
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Peace Wakas,
Here, generally, regardless whether they go to the local mosques, adhan determines when to start/stop their fast.
I've shown the verse the some people but all still start/stop fasting when adhan strikes, regardless whether it's still/already pitch black or otherwise.=adley=
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Exactly my point.
It's interesting when AQ very clearly says one thing, people do another! The level of indoctrination is an eye-opener.
Peace
It is also interesting that the opposite happens when they break their fast at sunset, rather than dusk. This to me has a certain irony.
Roshan
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isnt sunset the beginning of the night? so do you disagree with that?
Peace
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight
I, for the record, am not fasting, but when I have fasted (as per the Quran), I tended to break the fast when the sky was dark/black.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileTypes-of-twilight-en2.svg
As far as I can see, the fast is essentially from dawn till dusk going on the Quranic verses.
Roshan
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isnt sunset the beginning of the night? so do you disagree with that?
If you are interested in digging this subject there are couple of threads on this issue which have discussed this topic in detail, even now there is a discussion going on adjacent to this very thread.
siki
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How long after dawn does the morning twilight occur?
"dawn" tends to mean first light, and since first light is twilight, they start at the same time.
I, for the record, am not fasting, but when I have fasted (as per the Quran), I tended to break the fast when the sky was dark/black.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileTypes-of-twilight-en2.svg
As far as I can see, the fast is essentially from dawn till dusk going on the Quranic verses.
In evening twilight (i.e. dusk), the sky is darker, but not dark as in black.
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You can also show the Following Hadith to those who follow Hadith
Anas (RA) related to us, saying that Zaid bin Sabit (RA) told him that "We took saheri with the Apostle of Allah (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam), and then, he stood up for the Fajr sallah." Upon it, Anas (RA) asked Zaid (RA), " How much time would have passed between the eating of Saheri and the Azan of Fajr." Zaid (RA) replied, "It was equal to what was needed for the recitation of 50 verses of the Quran." (Bukhari and Muslim)
and this
Ibn Mas'ud (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying The Adhan of Bilal should not restrain anyone among you from eating Sahur (last meal before daybreak during the month of Ramadan) for he announces Adhan (or he calls) at (the fag end of) the night to make him turn who stands for prayer among you, and to awaken those who are sleeping among you. And he said The dawn is not like it, as one says (and he lifted his hand) till he (dispersed his fingers) and said It is like this
Wakas
...You may eat and drink until becomes distinct to you the white thread from the black thread of dawn...But if weather does not support?
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Way Finder
I have something better for you.. What about the regions near the poles... 6months of days and 6 months of night... Or the midnight sun...
Whats your take? Show me a hadith.
I think you just posted for sake of posting.
They can use man made tools there.Taking a hint from Hadith, following was arrived at by Ijtehad
the areas above 64 degrees latitude in the north and below 64 degrees latitude in the south should be considered 'abnormal zones' whereby people should not follow the movement of the sun, BUT they should follow the movement of the clock for their five daily prayers and fasting. They can pray and fast according to the timings of the cities that are nearest to them in the normal time zone, i.e. below 64 degrees north or above 64 degrees south.
The Ulemas agree. -
Way Finder
I think you just posted for sake of posting.
They can use man made tools there.Taking a hint from Hadith, following was arrived at by Ijtehad
the areas above 64 degrees latitude in the north and below 64 degrees latitude in the south should be considered 'abnormal zones' whereby people should not follow the movement of the sun, BUT they should follow the movement of the clock for their five daily prayers and fasting. They can pray and fast according to the timings of the cities that are nearest to them in the normal time zone, i.e. below 64 degrees north or above 64 degrees south.
The Ulemas agree.First note.. You do not have a hadith which is supposed to explain the rest upon which the quran was silent... so far so good
Did you realise that these manmade tools did not exists except a few centuries ago? How to use a sundial when there is no sun
Anyways, if what you said above is indeed true... Then how in England and parts of Europe, people are fasting 17-18hours per day... That is just six hours of night there... How can this be called a normal situation when we know the night/day spread in the Arab region is just 1-2 hours off at most in winter/summer seasons... same here is my country as well... If we have to get a baseline, I would say my region could be the baseline around the tropics... These abnormal region you are talking are purely relative to the individuals who thought about it... Fasting for 18 hours is not normal. I know many people who are staying there who are not fasting... because it is tedious and is beyond their capacity... so where are all the ulemas and their ijtihaad?
