Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No

Ayisha

Ayisha
Are you Way Finder? let him answer first.

Again? rotfl so typical

goodnight raj laugh

Raaajah

Ayisha

Am I? sorry i wasnt aware I have said anything like that, please quote it and post the link so i can see, then I can answer this

You does not explicitly mean You here, it means many of us.

ayisha

there probably is, but again I have not been involved in them either

answered above.

The above of your quotes still tell that you are feeling sleepy, and acting childishly

So how many days you fast?
How many times you pray daily?

Just don't answer me, if you don't like answer yourself and then analyze where do you get those answers, if from Quran, please let us Know.

Ayisha

so where are these explanations Raj?

So if it is your admittance that we cannot understand it on our own, until Wisdom of Allah is not with us. I provide you the explanations, that are available.

It is Good Morning here ignore

WayFinder

Way Finder
Way Finder I think before making big claims, we should check what others wrote.
Did I said that the name Ar-Rehman not existed in pre-Islamic times? show me if I had? I said the audience of Muhammad was not well aware of it.

according to Brett Marlowe Stortroen word "Rahmanan" appears in pre-Islamic inscriptions from South Arabia.
It is not Rahmaan.
They audience were surprised why to use name Rehmaan, for the reason i mentioned above,
also even if they knew this name they were not accepting it to be used by Muhammad peace is upon him, as they thought it was a different God Muhammad is talking about in Quran. Therefore Muhammad peace is upon him Explained to them.

This is pure conjecture... The inscription is clearly written in ancient arabic therefore it was common to the arabs... Similar to the name Allah itself... Arabs knew all these... the problem was their focus... and association to these names... this is what Muhammad came to change and rectify. The name Ar-Rahman is even present is some pre-islamic poetry in sabaen. Moreover, the name was also very well known among the people of the Book. So just because one or two men seems to believe it otherwise does not change this fact. From the inscription itself... It suggests that Ar-Rahman was even a deity in the pre-islamic arabia since the writing has been made in the name of Ar-Rahman.

So spare us with bogus claims and conjecture.

Ayisha

Let us consider verses about Ramadan? are you not having a debate on this very forum that it should be of 10 days, 30 Days etc.

Am I? sorry i wasnt aware I have said anything like that, please quote it and post the link so i can see, then I can answer this

You does not explicitly mean You here, it means many of us.

Then why are you asking me specifically?

ayishaanswered above.
this is not specific to me, the above was.

The above of your quotes still tell that you are feeling sleepy, and acting childishly
your confusion as to what you asked me specifically tells me you are confused.

So how many days you fast?
How many times you pray daily?
Is that your business?

Just don't answer me, if you don't like answer yourself and then analyze where do you get those answers, if from Quran, please let us Know.
Yes it's from Quran, where do you get yours from?

Ayisha = so where are these explanations Raj?

So if it is your admittance that we cannot understand it on our own, until Wisdom of Allah is not with us. I provide you the explanations, that are available.
Where have I admitted anything and where have you provided any available explanations? Is that in another book too? So you still have not answered my simple question and obviously CANNOT.

It is Good Morning here ignore
Yes it is here too, that was about 4am, I am up again for fajr and its now 5.48am, having trouble sleeping tonight, too hot.

guest

Peace

In case you are right... Then I would say that this wisdom cannot be transmitted from one person to another... And again... I always attach hikmah to its root meaning as well as other related words such as hukm(law),haakim(judge) etc which has to do with legislation... Therefore, Hikmah, if taken from your perspective could mean 'sound judgement' and this as I think it is, cannot be transmitted... But can be bestowed only from God.

Peace WayFinder,

The wisdom itself cannot be transmitted but the implementation of the wisdom can be transmitted. For example, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) implementation of Allah?s system on earth can be transmitted. In fact, this is what has happened after he died. Then the system got corrupted by satanic influence. One example of transmission is five times salat during a day, the timing, and the reestablishment of correct way of performing salat. We still follow his implementation of salat. Correct implementation based on his wisdom. Another example is lunar calendar for Ramadan, 30 days fasting, breaking fast right after sunset??.

guest

@Rajaah and others

Why have most of you disregarded the fact that HIKMAH(from ha-kaf-meem) is more related to legislation, hence the word hukm(law),haakim(judge),hakeem(wise) etc... This has nothing to do with explaining!

Ha-Kaf-Miim = To restrain from, exercise authority, command, give judgment, judge, be wise. To restrain/prevent/withhold a person from acting in an evil or corrupt manner, to judge or give judgement, pass sentence, decide judicially, exercise judicial authority/jurisdiction/rule/dominion/government, order or ordain or decree a thing, to be wise, to be sound in judgement, possess knowledge or science and wisdom, render a thing firm/stable/sound/free from defect or imperfection by the exercise of skill.

So why I am always seeing hikmah linked with explanation?? This does not make any sense.

Peace WayFinder,

Wisdom is all inclusive. It is legislation as well as explanation and more. Please seek wisdom from Allah for correct understanding and do not rely on dictionary only.

guest

so WHERE is the explanation of the verses to give us a CORRECT understanding?

This is what Raj cannot answer, can you?

Peace Ayisha,

Here is some example of correct understanding of verses

Preservation five daily salat time, way to conduct them, ?.
Ramadan ~30 days fasting, breakfast right after sunset,?..
Hajj when to perform them and how
Pre-wash for salat
Salat during war
And many more

The correct understanding has been preserved for us. We do them just the way Prophet Muhammad did them.

WayFinder

Peace WayFinder,

Wisdom is all inclusive. It is legislation as well as explanation and more. Please seek wisdom from Allah for correct understanding and do not rely on dictionary only.

I am quite sure you are mixing knowledge with wisdom... hikmah as i said has no relation at all with explanation but legislation... wisdom in our case would mean sound judgement regarding legal aspects/judgement for the people... and as you said yourself.. this cannot be transmitted... this is bestowed... for example a few man came to messenger to settle a dispute... According to his sound judgement, he judge between them correctly.. none would be able to replicate this... it was according to his own judgement... and the criterias upon which he based his judgement remains unknown...

Moreover, in Quran.. we see hikmah also alongside with MULK (kingdom) which against point us towards legislation and establishing/managing a society through sound judgement... The correct understanding according to me for the Hikmah is sound judgement with clairvoyance*. Again, this hikmah cannot be copied.. it is God given.

Most of the things you mentioned above such as fasting, salah etc has nothing to do with legislation... But rather you are pointing me towards explanation/detailment. And this is not hikmah as it has strayed from the root meaning.

*1. (noun) clairvoyance, second sight, extrasensory perception, E.S.P., ESP
apparent power to perceive things that are not present to the senses
Synonyms second sight, clairvoyance, extrasensory perception

guest

I am quite sure you are mixing knowledge with wisdom... hikmah as i said has no relation at all with explanation but legislation... wisdom in our case would mean sound judgement regarding legal aspects/judgement for the people... and as you said yourself.. this cannot be transmitted... this is bestowed... for example a few man came to messenger to settle a dispute... According to his sound judgement, he judge between them correctly.. none would be able to replicate this... it was according to his own judgement... and the criterias upon which he based his judgement remains unknown...

Moreover, in Quran.. we see hikmah also alongside with MULK (kingdom) which against point us towards legislation and establishing/managing a society through sound judgement... The correct understanding according to me for the Hikmah is sound judgement with clairvoyance*. Again, this hikmah cannot be copied.. it is God given.

Most of the things you mentioned above such as fasting, salah etc has nothing to do with legislation... But rather you are pointing me towards explanation/detailment. And this is not hikmah as it has strayed from the root meaning.

*1. (noun) clairvoyance, second sight, extrasensory perception, E.S.P., ESP
apparent power to perceive things that are not present to the senses
Synonyms second sight, clairvoyance, extrasensory perception

Peace WayFinder,

With your view how do you explain the following two verses

3112 - We have endowed Luqm?n with wisdom "You shall be appreciative of GOD." Whoever is appreciative is appreciative for his own good. As for those who turn unappreciative, GOD is in no need, Praiseworthy.

1739 - This is some of the wisdom inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside GOD, lest you end up in Gehenna, blamed and defeated.

WayFinder

Peace WayFinder,

With your view how do you explain the following two verses

3112 - We have endowed Luqm?n with wisdom "You shall be appreciative of GOD." Whoever is appreciative is appreciative for his own good. As for those who turn unappreciative, GOD is in no need, Praiseworthy.

1739 - This is some of the wisdom inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside GOD, lest you end up in Gehenna, blamed and defeated.

I do not see any contradiction between these verses and what I said.. Infact, to be appreciative and thankful is also clairvoyance.. Every wise person would recognise this...

As for 1739, the hikmah in question is being detailed in the verses above it and 1739 is concluding the list. All of which are talking about sound judgement....

Maybe... if I say the right mindset one has to develop... This is the hikmah as presented in the Book.

Leyna

The correct understanding has been preserved for us. We do them just the way Prophet Muhammad did them.

Please speak only for yourself. Thanks. peace

I have no issue whatsoever with people following conjecture if they think it helps them. I do have an issue with people claiming, like you do, that this is what everyone is doing or should do.

Ayisha

Peace Ayisha,

Here is some example of correct understanding of verses

Preservation five daily salat time, way to conduct them, ?.
Ramadan ~30 days fasting, breakfast right after sunset,?..
Hajj when to perform them and how
Pre-wash for salat
Salat during war
And many more

The correct understanding has been preserved for us. We do them just the way Prophet Muhammad did them.

So the verses in Quran referring to these are all wrong and no one could understand them so they needed to be 'corrected'?

Where do we find these correct understandings preserved?

How do you do # 4?

Ayisha

. We do them just the way Prophet Muhammad did them.

me too as the prophet did them as they are in Quran. peace

Ayisha

Peace WayFinder,

The wisdom itself cannot be transmitted but the implementation of the wisdom can be transmitted. For example, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) implementation of Allah?s system on earth can be transmitted. In fact, this is what has happened after he died. Then the system got corrupted by satanic influence. One example of transmission is five times salat during a day, the timing, and the reestablishment of correct way of performing salat. We still follow his implementation of salat. Correct implementation based on his wisdom. Another example is lunar calendar for Ramadan, 30 days fasting, breaking fast right after sunset??.

It was transmitted after he died? why not while he was alive? It is the satanic influences that happened after he died that corrupted and did the reestablishment of salat as salat was established before the prophet was born, and that is what is in Quran and that is what Muhammed followed. The minute he died it was all changed and 12 sects sprang up with differing ideas all wanting to re-invent and 'correct' what he had done. The lunar calendar was 'invented' while he was still alive, all that came later when the people re-formed Islam to suit what they already knew, just as the Jews and Christians did.

san

Here is some example of correct understanding of verses

Preservation five daily salat time, way to conduct them, ?.
Ramadan ~30 days fasting, breakfast right after sunset,?..
Hajj when to perform them and how
Pre-wash for salat
Salat during war
And many more

The correct understanding has been preserved for us. We do them just the way Prophet Muhammad did them.

I replied only because i don't want you to misunderstand my previous post.

I do not agree with your point #1, #2, and probably #3 and #5 as well, since i have yet to see what you mean by "Hajj" and "Salat during war". The points being
"five daily salat"
"Ramadan ~ fasting"

Please don't take them too lightly. There is so much more in Al-Salaat and Al-Siyaam.

Peace

guest

Please speak only for yourself. Thanks. peace

I have no issue whatsoever with people following conjecture if they think it helps them. I do have an issue with people claiming, like you do, that this is what everyone is doing or should do.

Peace Leyna,

I gave the correct understanding of some verses. If you do not agree then you are not included in the ?us?.

Leyna

Where do we find these correct understandings preserved?

In the ahadeeth of course. )

Am I the only one getting tired of reading arguments like this? I came here because I am not interested anymore in this sort of discussion, because I would like to engage in an interesting and spiritually enlightening exchange of thoughts, because I am sick and tired of the same old same old Sunni arguments, the arrogance and the constant bullying, insulting and game playing if you don't follow their understanding.

It's irritating and tiresome that exactly those kinds of discussions seem to take over the board recently.

http//www.imagebanana.com/img/q6owvuis/033102bad_1_prv.gif

guest

So the verses in Quran referring to these are all wrong and no one could understand them so they needed to be 'corrected'?

Where do we find these correct understandings preserved?

How do you do # 4?

Peace Ayisha,

Here is my logic for acquiring the correct salat

The Quran is preserved
The salat rite is preserved because Quran is preserved
We learn salat before we are able to read the Quran
Allah teaches us the salat first
We see our parents, relatives, neighbor? perform salat when we are baby
When we are able to walk our parents take us to mosque and we observed salat
By age five we know how to perform salat, its timing??yet we don?t read book
This is how Allah preserved the salat (as practiced by Prophet Muhammad) for us

guest

In the ahadeeth of course. )

Am I the only one getting tired of reading arguments like this? I came here because I am not interested anymore in this sort of discussion, because I would like to engage in an interesting and spiritually enlightening exchange of thoughts, because I am sick and tired of the same old same old Sunni arguments, the arrogance and the constant bullying, insulting and game playing if you don't follow their understanding.

It's irritating and tiresome that exactly those kinds of discussions seem to take over the board recently.

http//www.imagebanana.com/img/q6owvuis/033102bad_1_prv.gif

2563 - The worshipers of the Most Gracious are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace.

Peace!

Leyna

Here is my logic for acquiring the correct salat

The Quran is preserved
The salat rite is preserved because Quran is preserved
We learn salat before we are able to read the Quran
Allah teaches us the salat first
We see our parents, relatives, neighbor? perform salat when we are baby
When we are able to walk our parents take us to mosque and we observed salat
By age five we know how to perform salat, its timing??yet we don?t read book
This is how Allah preserved the salat (as practiced by Prophet Muhammad) for us

Again ? I suggest you speak for yourself only. Not everyone on here has observed their parents etc. performing salat from an early age on. And I am sure that among those who did, not everyone observed the very same thing, because there are differences in how people perform it, according to local traditions, which school of jurisprudence they adhere to and so on and so forth.

So how is a convert supposed to learn ritual prayer? Who is he supposed to believe, which technique is he supposed to follow? If the convert is a woman, should she cover her head during prayer as the majority of born Muslims do, despite the fact that there is nothing in the Qur'an telling us that this is an obligation?

Your argument above is completely illogical. You are basically saying we should follow some dubious traditions because that's what people have been doing for ages. It's exactly what the Qur'an advises us against.

The fact is, they have said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are following in their footsteps."

And similarly, We did not send a warner to a town, except its carefree ones said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are being guided in their footsteps."

He said "What if I brought to you better a guidance than what you found your fathers upon?

They said "We are disbelievers in that with which you have been sent."

Consequently, We took revenge upon them. So see how was the consequences of the deniers.

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