Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No

Leyna

Here is my logic for acquiring the correct salat

The Quran is preserved
The salat rite is preserved because Quran is preserved
We learn salat before we are able to read the Quran
Allah teaches us the salat first
We see our parents, relatives, neighbor? perform salat when we are baby
When we are able to walk our parents take us to mosque and we observed salat
By age five we know how to perform salat, its timing??yet we don?t read book
This is how Allah preserved the salat (as practiced by Prophet Muhammad) for us

Again ? I suggest you speak for yourself only. Not everyone on here has observed their parents etc. performing salat from an early age on. And I am sure that among those who did, not everyone observed the very same thing, because there are differences in how people perform it, according to local traditions, which school of jurisprudence they adhere to and so on and so forth.

So how is a convert supposed to learn ritual prayer? Who is he supposed to believe, which technique is he supposed to follow? If the convert is a woman, should she cover her head during prayer as the majority of born Muslims do, despite the fact that there is nothing in the Qur'an telling us that this is an obligation?

Your argument above is completely illogical. You are basically saying we should follow some dubious traditions because that's what people have been doing for ages. It's exactly what the Qur'an advises us against.

The fact is, they have said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are following in their footsteps."

And similarly, We did not send a warner to a town, except its carefree ones said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are being guided in their footsteps."

He said "What if I brought to you better a guidance than what you found your fathers upon?

They said "We are disbelievers in that with which you have been sent."

Consequently, We took revenge upon them. So see how was the consequences of the deniers.

4323?25

Ayisha

Peace Ayisha,

Here is my logic for acquiring the correct salat

The Quran is preserved
The salat rite is preserved because Quran is preserved
We learn salat before we are able to read the Quran
Allah teaches us the salat first
We see our parents, relatives, neighbor? perform salat when we are baby
When we are able to walk our parents take us to mosque and we observed salat
By age five we know how to perform salat, its timing??yet we don?t read book
This is how Allah preserved the salat (as practiced by Prophet Muhammad) for us

ok, so basically you follow what your fathers followed even though they may follow nothing but conjecture and you are taught not to questions it.

I asked about #4 though, this was not #4

Ayisha

In the ahadeeth of course. )

Yes, but they have been trying so hard not to actually say that

Leyna

Yes, but they have been trying so hard not to actually say that

As I said ? game playing. nope

The purpose of their posts is simply to have people going around in circles wasting their time on ridiculous arguments. It's their way of trying to block serious and intelligent discussions.
ignore ignore ignore

I admire your energy, intelligence, knowledge and the way you present your arguments, Ayisha, but I also wonder why you bother. It's clear this is never going to get anywhere.

guest

It was transmitted after he died? why not while he was alive?

No the transmission occurred while he was alive. Perhaps you are unaware of the history and the facts.

Prophet Muhammad tried to establish Allah system in Mecca but failed.

He established Allah?s system in Medina (Yatrib). Then this system was transmitted to Mecca, neighboring town, neighboring country, and afterward to Spain and so on.

Raaajah

Way Finder

This is pure conjecture... The inscription is clearly written in ancient arabic therefore it was common to the arabs... Similar to the name Allah itself... Arabs knew all these... the problem was their focus... and association to these names... this is what Muhammad came to change and rectify. The name Ar-Rahman is even present is some pre-islamic poetry in sabaen. Moreover, the name was also very well known among the people of the Book. So just because one or two men seems to believe it otherwise does not change this fact. From the inscription itself... It suggests that Ar-Rahman was even a deity in the pre-islamic arabia since the writing has been made in the name of Ar-Rahman.

So spare us with bogus claims and conjecture.

Conjecture? are you sure it is Conjecture? You are proving that despite being well versed in Arabic You have no understanding of Quran

http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/25_60.png

And when it is said unto them Prostrate to al-Rahmn! they say And what is al-Rahmn? Are we to prostrate to whatever thou biddest us? And it increaseth aversion in them.

Will you not believe then?

guest

ok, so basically you follow what your fathers followed even though they may follow nothing but conjecture and you are taught not to questions it.

Or they may be following salat preserved by Allah!

Raaajah

Leyna

Am I the only one getting tired of reading arguments like this? I came here because I am not interested anymore in this sort of discussion, because I would like to engage in an interesting and spiritually enlightening exchange of thoughts, because I am sick and tired of the same old same old Sunni arguments, the arrogance and the constant bullying, insulting and game playing if you don't follow their understanding.

It's irritating and tiresome that exactly those kinds of discussions seem to take over the board recently.

Just don't pretend to be so scholarly.
No one here has presented Hadith or even called for it as a support for any argument.
It is only you! people here have read your discussions too, just take a look at those before commenting on others.

Ayisha

As I said ? game playing. nope

The purpose of their posts is simply to have people going around in circles wasting their time on ridiculous arguments. It's their way of trying to block serious and intelligent discussions.
ignore ignore ignore
Yes I agree, but here it doesnt stop the intelligent discussions, they are still going on and they are gret to learn and read while these circular guys keep chasing their tails.

I admire your energy, intelligence, knowledge and the way you present your arguments, Ayisha, but I also wonder why you bother. It's clear this is never going to get anywhere.

It does go somewhere, it exposes them for who and what they are whereas they would normally be inserting more poison into intelligent conversations. But yes it is tiring, but you know me, if I see BS I have to tread in it and splatter them with it. jedi And if I can get just one person to see the blatant shirk and total contradictions of a certain translation then I'm happy peace

Ayisha

No the transmission occurred while he was alive. Perhaps you are unaware of the history and the facts.

Prophet Muhammad tried to establish Allah system in Mecca but failed.

He established Allah?s system in Medina (Yatrib). Then this system was transmitted to Mecca, neighboring town, neighboring country, and afterward to Spain and so on.

Thats not what you first said though.

"For example, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) implementation of Allah?s system on earth can be transmitted. In fact, this is what has happened after he died. Then the system got corrupted

so, how about #4

Ayisha

Or they may be following salat preserved by Allah!

but nobody bothered to look in the book as by that time they are told what to do, they are too lazy to bother and too scared to question.

Raaajah

Rajah

So how many days you fast?
How many times you pray daily?

Ayisha

Is that your business?

It is none of my business dear Ash, but if you answer this will help me in my argument, that the times you pray and the days you fast are different from many other people's understanding, here and world over.
Because you said That all the Ayats are already explained, then why we have many different understandings for how many times we have to pray? or even pray or not in the first place, will you give it a moment of thought to this.

Those who think that Allah had given Wisdom to Messengers as per Ayats mentioned above are very confident that it is
Five times a day, they all repeat all say it 5 times a day, but I see that so called Quran aloners are shifting through one to another, they are CONFUSED.

It is not that I am supporting Hadith, I just want your serious comments on these.

Leyna

Yes I agree, but here it doesnt stop the intelligent discussions, they are still going on and they are gret to learn and read while these circular guys keep chasing their tails.

Yeah, I see your point. I remember that discussing things with ignorant idiots (speaking in general, not referring to anyone on this board) would help me in a strange way to become more secure of my own point of view. When being forced to present your opinion in a logical manner and back it up with facts, you have to research things again, put your thoughts and findings into words etc., and that can indeed be helpful.

But yes it is tiring, but you know me, if I see BS I have to tread in it and splatter them with it. jedi And if I can get just one person to see the blatant shirk and total contradictions of a certain translation then I'm happy peace

Hey, I wasn't telling you to stop. peace Just saying my opinion. It seems to me that whenever I look at this board recently, there is one of those dudes going on and on about the same thing. I agree that they are just exposing themselves, and it surprises me that they don't seem to be embarrassed about that, but, hey, as long as you're enjoying yourself (which you obviously are), that's fine.

I guess I am just too exhausted at the moment, so I feel I have no time or energy for this sort of thing.

Ayisha

No one here has presented Hadith or even called for it as a support for any argument.

no, and thats why you CANNOT answer any questions you have been asked for PAGES and refused to answer! )

Leyna

It is not that I am supporting Hadith, I just want your serious comments on these.

http//img52.imageshack.us/img52/7389/rofln.gif http//img52.imageshack.us/img52/7389/rofln.gif http//img52.imageshack.us/img52/7389/rofln.gif

Ayisha

http//img52.imageshack.us/img52/7389/rofln.gif http//img52.imageshack.us/img52/7389/rofln.gif http//img52.imageshack.us/img52/7389/rofln.gif

you see! they do have their uses and entertainment value just like Akmad the terrorist did. they make you and they make you rotfl

guest

Your argument above is completely illogical. You are basically saying we should follow some dubious traditions because that's what people have been doing for ages. It's exactly what the Qur'an advises us against.

The fact is, they have said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are following in their footsteps."

Let?s put your logic to test

Prophet Muhammad?s daughter and few other people following Prophet Muhammad?s footsteps.

According to you they are astray and their action is completely illogical. According to you they should cease and desist. And you say you are a logical person!!!!!!

You should read and apply the verse in the context and the environment.

Ayisha

Rajah
Ayisha
It is none of my business dear Ash, but if you answer this will help me in my argument, that the times you pray and the days you fast are different from many other people's understanding, here and world over.

Let me get this right Raj.

You have asked me a question that I have NOT yet answered and you have already decided on an argument that my answer, whatever that may be, will be different to many other peoples understand here and the world over?

is that right?

So if I answered 5 times a day and 30 days fast would you still argue this is diferent to other peoples understanding the world over?

Because you said That all the Ayats are already explained,
that was Allah said that actually, I just keep having to remind you which you keep ignoring

then why we have many different understandings for how many times we have to pray? or even pray or not in the first place, will you give it a moment of thought to this.
Raj, I have given 8 years off thought to this and other things. The differences are down to people like you who ignore that Allah says it is fully detailed and fully explained and I thought you could argue that what I say will be different to other peoples understanding the world over?

Those who think that Allah had given Wisdom to Messengers as per Ayats mentioned above are very confident that it is
Five times a day, they all repeat all say it 5 times a day, but I see that so called Quran aloners are shifting through one to another, they are CONFUSED.
I have not seen ANY Quran Aloner say that Allah did NOT give Wisdom to the messengers ??? are you dreaming raj? Is that what your mind has told you has been said here?

It is not that I am supporting Hadith, I just want your serious comments on these.

of course its not that you'e supporting hadith Raj, who would think such a thing! o

I would be very happy to answer yet another question from you Raj, when you first answer the question I have been asking for about 8 pages now.

Where are the explanations of the verses?

guest

but nobody bothered to look in the book as by that time they are told what to do, they are too lazy to bother and too scared to question.

Why do you take a small subset and call it a full set. That is WRONG.

For example, RK does not fall in your category, yet you are forcing him into that category. He performed five salat a day and he was not lazy or scared.

Raaajah

Ayisha

So if I answered 5 times a day and 30 days fast would you still argue this is diferent to other peoples understanding the world over?

Yes!
I can see here at this very Forum, and many other forums, that there are two Salaats, 3, and No Salaat, one of the most convincing one is from WAKAS, with reference to Quranic verses and detailed study of the subject
Therefore if it is EXPLAINED in the Book then why the difference?
Aymen uses Quranic verses to explain that the Fast is for 10 days.

Do you understand what I mean to say, now?

that was Allah said that actually, I just keep having to remind you which you keep ignoring

That is your understanding. If it is as you say, Then why are there above differences?

Leyna I think you need a Massage, you said you are tired.