Is Prophet Muhammad?s duty to deliver Quran only?: No
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Please note that i am again answering your question while still waiting for an answer to mine.
Ismail 'enjoined' his family to observe the salat. Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray. i think you may have misunderstood the word 'observe' there to mean 'to watch'' right? The Arabic doesnt have 'observe' there.
19.31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
that is Jesus as a baby, meaning God had told him to do prayer and charity
there is nothing about wtching family or anyone else doing it.
Who said one had to read Quran to pray? The previous prophets didnt read it as far as I know and they prayed by doing what Quran says, bowing, prostrating, face to the floor, imploring, worshipping of course they wouldnt have done the reciting verses of Quran though but what they did was good enough for God.
It would be wise to look at other translations as well as Khalifa, others dont put observe in theirs and if you look at it the way you are doing it's telling you to just watch the prayer and not do it.
Peace Ayisha,
Your comment (correction) on RK?s translation is noted. Thank you.
From your comment I deduced that you understood the meaning I was trying portray in the verse 20132 i.e. perform the salat.
My question was How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age?
You did not answer the question. You did not even comprehend my simple question. Yet you are claiming that you are answering my question. I will take baby steps to bring home the point.
In your system the concept of single leader is unacceptable. Another way of looking at it is everybody is leader. To me this is a chaotic system (satanic) but to you this is a perfect system. You have accepted this satanic system based on your WISDOM.
In your system everything has to be learned from the Quran by the individual and nothing can be passes on. Otherwise you will be advocating hadith, your hadith as opposed to Bukhari.
Under these conditions how can you enjoin salat to your family? I see no means to do it. In other word your system contradicts Quranic verses. Another way of looking at is you are nullifying the Quran by accepting your chaotic system.
There is no concept of preserving the salat in your system. Your chaotic system gives rise to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4?..salat. Which one do you preserve? Even if you preserve one, you cannot pass it on because you don?t accept hadith or transmission via human.
Now as for your comment ?Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray.?
You don?t enjoin something on others (especially your family) if you are not certain about it. Anything contrary to this can only be advocated by your satanic system. It is common sense that Ismail is using preserved salat or that he was taught by Allah. And he is passing it on to his family.
Now as for your comment ?Who said one had to read Quran to pray??
That?s what I have been telling you. Salat is preserve by Allah. We learn to do it without reading the Quran. We learn it via human transmission. No hadith.
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San
What is this if not a misquote? You said you've been here since 2006. Surprised you haven't learned about that "Quote" button at the top right of each post, and this is 2010 already.
Actually the quote was so on target that I could not stop laughing, therefore instead of guest it was San.
That is nothing to be surprised of because I have learned much better things then "Quoting button" in these years rotfl but I have to really acknowledge your "Wisdom" in discovering this "Quote button". hail -
Peace Ayisha,
Your comment (correction) on RK?s translation is noted. Thank you.
WelcomeFrom your comment I deduced that you understood the meaning I was trying portray in the verse 20132 i.e. perform the salat.
I understood you were trying to say that the word 'observe' was saying to 'watch' family etc doing the prayer, that is not what it means and if it did then there was nothing to say DO the prayer only to watch. Irrelevant as observe is not in the arabic anyway.My question was How would you implement these verses in your system where one has to read Quran first to understand salat. What is that critical age?
How would I implement these verses? I would tell my family they are to pray to God and be charitable. At any age they can comprehend pray to God and 'share'. Is there an age minimum?You did not answer the question. You did not even comprehend my simple question. Yet you are claiming that you are answering my question. I will take baby steps to bring home the point.
I pointed out the flaws on your question and I did answer it.In your system the concept of single leader is unacceptable. Another way of looking at it is everybody is leader. To me this is a chaotic system (satanic) but to you this is a perfect system. You have accepted this satanic system based on your WISDOM.
really? How come you know so much about my system but so little about me at the same time?In your system everything has to be learned from the Quran by the individual and nothing can be passes on. Otherwise you will be advocating hadith, your hadith as opposed to Bukhari.
Really? You think that Bukhari is the problem or that hadith is the problem? Quran is a hadith. My problem with hadith bukhari and of those that follow these hadith is that they advocate them as an extra message from God, which they are not. I have no problem listening to anyones advice and if its logical I will take it and if not I wont, but I wont be saying its from God when its not.Under these conditions how can you enjoin salat to your family? I see no means to do it. In other word your system contradicts Quranic verses. Another way of looking at is you are nullifying the Quran by accepting your chaotic system.
Look up 'enjoin' and get the correct meaning on it guest. It means to tell them to pray so following those verses is not contradicting Quran if I advise or tell my family to pray, HOW they pray is their business, HOW they connect to God is their business, they don't need to be told how to lay the hands on the knees or how far to bow or which points need to touch the floor in prostration as that is nothing to do with prayer and they don't need to be told that not rising as the prophet did without using your hands will nulify the prayer, God has said he listens to every prayer its not for any human to say it will be nullified for not pointing the toes in the right direction. Now your way we all watch our families do prayer but your family may do this different to another family etc etc, so do you also fight within families as which is right? And dont tell me all muslims do it the same because they dont.
There is no concept of preserving the salat in your system.
What total rubbish! prayer is prayer, you are trying to force a man made ritualistic set of actions on people and saying that is prayer, you dont have the first inkling of what prayer is!Your chaotic system gives rise to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4?..salat. Which one do you preserve? Even if you preserve one, you cannot pass it on because you don?t accept hadith or transmission via human.
What utter tripe. Have you any idea what you're talking about? did Abraham pray the same as you do? did Jesus? does a christian child? do you think they are not 'doing it properly' if its not the same as yours? if I do 2 or 20 a day is that wrong? does God write up on the score card I overstepped on prayer if I do 20 prayers?Now as for your comment ?Nothing here says he was taught it by his family or that he taught it to them, just that he enjoined on them to do the prayer, he told them to pray.?
You don?t enjoin something on others (especially your family) if you are not certain about it. Anything contrary to this can only be advocated by your satanic system. It is common sense that Ismail is using preserved salat or that he was taught by Allah. And he is passing it on to his family.
How can following Quran be a satanic system?
How can praying to MY God in MY way with all MY heart be satanic?
because I may put my feet in the wrong angle or my nose may not touch the floor so many times in the ritualistic bowing and prostrating physical ritual and uttering words from my mouth only without it touching my heart?You say common sense, if you had used common sense before posting the verse you would have looked up the arabic but you were so desperate to throw bricks you didnt even see if they were hard enough or not. Ismail told his family to pray and to give in charity, to thank God and be charitable, it is NOT saying he showed them the physical ritual and if God taught him this physical ritual do you think he came to earth and showed him "this is how I want it done and make sure you only have 5 points touching the floor when you prostrate to me or I will not listen and I want so many raka for this time and so many for another time and ignore the bit where I said not to be too quiet or too loud and you can instead be vocal in some raka and silent in another and that is what I meant by middle road"
Now as for your comment ?Who said one had to read Quran to pray??
That?s what I have been telling you. Salat is preserve by Allah. We learn to do it without reading the Quran. We learn it via human transmission. No hadith.
right, so kneeling beside my bed with my hands together and my eyes closed is fine as that's how I was taught by my family to pray to God, and it still worked fine.
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I understood you were trying to say that the word 'observe' was saying to 'watch' family etc doing the prayer, that is not what it means and if it did then there was nothing to say DO the prayer only to watch. Irrelevant as observe is not in the arabic anyway.
Peace,
I said one can learn via observation. Here is my quote ?The above two verse are easily implemented in preserved salat concept i.e. learning salat by observing our family, neighbor, etc. at a very young age (4,5,?.).?
How would I implement these verses? I would tell my family they are to pray to God and be charitable. At any age they can comprehend pray to God and 'share'. Is there an age minimum?
Now you are claiming that you can read other peoples mind. Otherwise how would you know when they are ready to comprehend salat? Where did you learn to read others mind form voodooist or from you two horns friend.
The simple fact is you cannot implement these verses in your satanic system because your system is anti-Quranic.
Is there an age minimum?
Don?t be playing dumb with me. You are supposed to be answering my question and not parrot the question back to me. Why don?t you just face the truth and admit your wrongs. You just cannot implement these verses.
really? How come you know so much about my system but so little about me at the same time?
I know all I need to know about you. That is you are a hypocrite. Remember Allah said he would expose the hypocrite via their action. If you were not a hypocrite then you would described the system to me if it was different from what I said. Hypocrites are at the bottom of the pit.
Really? You think that Bukhari is the problem or that hadith is the problem? Quran is a hadith. My problem with hadith bukhari and of those that follow these hadith is that they advocate them as an extra message from God, which they are not. I have no problem listening to anyones advice and if its logical I will take it and if not I wont, but I wont be saying its from God when its not.
If Prophet Muhammad was to render a verdict regarding a dispute based on his wisdom granted by Allah, you would be saying it is Muhammad?s way and not Allah?s way. Do you even know what logic is? If yes, then how come you produce so much illogical statements?
Look up 'enjoin' and get the correct meaning on it guest. It means to tell them to pray so following those verses is not contradicting Quran if I advise or tell my family to pray, HOW they pray is their business, HOW they connect to God is their business, they don't need to be told how to lay the hands on the knees or how far to bow or which points need to touch the floor in prostration as that is nothing to do with prayer and they don't need to be told that not rising as the prophet did without using your hands will nulify the prayer, God has said he listens to every prayer its not for any human to say it will be nullified for not pointing the toes in the right direction. Now your way we all watch our families do prayer but your family may do this different to another family etc etc, so do you also fight within families as which is right? And dont tell me all muslims do it the same because they dont.
This is total rubbish! Then why did Allah say he raises imams and teach them the rituals. Your description of salat is chaotic (satanic) and that why your system is satanic. In this system there is no way you can implement the cited verses. Someone got caught with their pant down. There is no way out of this one.
What total rubbish! prayer is prayer, you are trying to force a man made ritualistic set of actions on people and saying that is prayer, you dont have the first inkling of what prayer is!
No, all prayers are not equal. Are you suggesting idol worshipper prayer is the same as the monotheistic prayer? Allah taught our leaders how to pray just like He taught Adam the name of all things. And the believers are required to follow their leader.
What utter tripe. Have you any idea what you're talking about? did Abraham pray the same as you do? did Jesus? does a christian child? do you think they are not 'doing it properly' if its not the same as yours? if I do 2 or 20 a day is that wrong? does God write up on the score card I overstepped on prayer if I do 20 prayers?
Now we have Ayisha?s hadith on lower and the upper bounds of salat 2-20 a day
I suppose you got this from the root meaning dictionary of hell. You must be a dear friend of satan.The timing and the salat structure are the same for all believers (Abraham, Jesus, Muhammad ??)
How can following Quran be a satanic system?
You are not following the Quran. You are following your desire which is inspired by satan.
How can praying to MY God in MY way with all MY heart be satanic?
Because you are not following the way Allah taught us the salat.
Welcome
because I may put my feet in the wrong angle or my nose may not touch the floor so many times in the ritualistic bowing and prostrating physical ritual and uttering words from my mouth only without it touching my heart?So you do follow the Bukhari hadith. Physical transmission of salat via believers cannot contain such rubbish.
You say common sense, if you had used common sense before posting the verse you would have looked up the arabic but you were so desperate to throw bricks you didnt even see if they were hard enough or not. Ismail told his family to pray and to give in charity, to thank God and be charitable, it is NOT saying he showed them the physical ritual and if God taught him this physical ritual do you think he came to earth and showed him "this is how I want it done and make sure you only have 5 points touching the floor when you prostrate to me or I will not listen and I want so many raka for this time and so many for another time and ignore the bit where I said not to be too quiet or too loud and you can instead be vocal in some raka and silent in another and that is what I meant by middle road"
Good people enjoin good things to their family. One cannot enjoin something to others if it cannot be verified and validated (salat timing & structure)
Bad people enjoin bad things to their family.
right, so kneeling beside my bed with my hands together and my eyes closed is fine as that's how I was taught by my family to pray to God, and it still worked fine.
This is an unintelligent response. What was the timing and structure of salat taught?
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Don?t be playing dumb with me. You are supposed to be answering my question and not parrot the question back to me. Why don?t you just face the truth and admit your wrongs. You just cannot implement these verses.
If this cannot be called hypocrisy... then what should we call it?
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I understood you were trying to say that the word 'observe' was saying to 'watch' family etc doing the prayer, that is not what it means and if it did then there was nothing to say DO the prayer only to watch. Irrelevant as observe is not in the arabic anyway.
Peace,
I said one can learn via observation. Here is my quote ?The above two verse are easily implemented in preserved salat concept i.e. learning salat by observing our family, neighbor, etc. at a very young age (4,5,?.).?
How long did it take your little brain to compute that answer? You were showing me by the verses that it said to enjoin and observe, did you look up enjoin? What about this
31.21 When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire?
2.170 When it is said to them "Follow what Allah hath revealed" They say "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?
5.104 When it is said to them "Come to what Allah hath revealed; come to the Messenger" They say "Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following." what! even though their fathers were void of knowledge and guidance?
43.22 Nay! they say "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we do guide ourselves by their footsteps."
Do you need more? Your posts and insistance that this is how it's done by following what your fathers did is living proof this problem is still here today
How would I implement these verses? I would tell my family they are to pray to God and be charitable. At any age they can comprehend pray to God and 'share'. Is there an age minimum?
Now you are claiming that you can read other peoples mind. Otherwise how would you know when they are ready to comprehend salat? Where did you learn to read others mind form voodooist or from you two horns friend. The simple fact is you cannot implement these verses in your satanic system because your system is anti-Quranic.
How does your 'logic' deduce that is what my post said in ANY way imaginable? ??? You are the one with 2 horned friends as you are following what Allah told you NOT to, so it's not me following an unquranic system is it? I have told you how to implement these verses but you would rather follow what your family have followed instead of Allah and you would rather see in those verses something that isn't there and twist words to suit your agenda and your satanic worship
Is there an age minimum?
Don?t be playing dumb with me. You are supposed to be answering my question and not parrot the question back to me. Why don?t you just face the truth and admit your wrongs. You just cannot implement these verses.
'you are supposed to be answering my question' thats rich coming from you.I didn't parrot your question back at you, I asked if there was a minimum age as I didn't realized there was a minimum age to be taught about God and to learn to share and say thank you. If I am wrong I have no problem admitting it to anyone, I am grown up enough to do that and I was taught this is the right thing to do, your education in that area was obviously lacking. The verses tell us to enjoin prayer on our family, it means to tell them/advise them to pray to God. The verses tell to enjoin zakat on our family, it means to tell them/advise them to be charitable at all times. If you look the veres in Quran that say prayer also say zakat, means all the time, not just at certain times, means to be charitable, it adds to righteousness. Now what have those verses got to do with they way YOU pray? If you think I am wrong or folowing something wrong then please TELL ME, educate me, don't just attack and throw insults, that is not what any righteous person would do is it? or is that also taught in your family too?
really? How come you know so much about my system but so little about me at the same time?
I know all I need to know about you. That is you are a hypocrite. Remember Allah said he would expose the hypocrite via their action. If you were not a hypocrite then you would described the system to me if it was different from what I said. Hypocrites are at the bottom of the pit.
Bold and size above is from me to show who exactly the hypocrite here is
What 'system' is that though? you didnt say any how what it was so how could I have said anything different to what you said, you didnt say! You posted verses and I answered you and said HOW I would implement it, you have not ONCE said how YOU do. I have been trying to get you for pages and pages to tell me how YOU do wudu and you are right in that Allah exposed YOU as you still have not told me how YOU do wudu and now you AGAIN come here calling me a hypocrite? You are a JOKE!Really? You think that Bukhari is the problem or that hadith is the problem? Quran is a hadith. My problem with hadith bukhari and of those that follow these hadith is that they advocate them as an extra message from God, which they are not. I have no problem listening to anyones advice and if its logical I will take it and if not I wont, but I wont be saying its from God when its not.
If Prophet Muhammad was to render a verdict regarding a dispute based on his wisdom granted by Allah, you would be saying it is Muhammad?s way and not Allah?s way. Do you even know what logic is? If yes, then how come you produce so much illogical statements?
How do you KNOW I would be saying its Muhammeds way and not Allahs way? Muhammed is not here now but when he was he judged any dispute BY THE BOOK that had been revealed to him. The BOOK is what we have, the baseless hadith that are a collection of fabrications are NOT what we were left with, we were left the BOOK only. So your illogical question is without knowledge and as baseless as the hadith of Bukhari. You wouldnt know logic if you fell over it.Look up 'enjoin' and get the correct meaning on it guest. It means to tell them to pray so following those verses is not contradicting Quran if I advise or tell my family to pray, HOW they pray is their business, HOW they connect to God is their business, they don't need to be told how to lay the hands on the knees or how far to bow or which points need to touch the floor in prostration as that is nothing to do with prayer and they don't need to be told that not rising as the prophet did without using your hands will nulify the prayer, God has said he listens to every prayer its not for any human to say it will be nullified for not pointing the toes in the right direction. Now your way we all watch our families do prayer but your family may do this different to another family etc etc, so do you also fight within families as which is right? And dont tell me all muslims do it the same because they dont.
This is total rubbish! Then why did Allah say he raises imams and teach them the rituals. Your description of salat is chaotic (satanic) and that why your system is satanic. In this system there is no way you can implement the cited verses. Someone got caught with their pant down. There is no way out of this one.
So how do YOU implement the verses? or is that yet another question you will never answer along with the wudu one?Bring a verse with what you claim and we can discuss that.
What total rubbish! prayer is prayer, you are trying to force a man made ritualistic set of actions on people and saying that is prayer, you dont have the first inkling of what prayer is!
No, all prayers are not equal. Are you suggesting idol worshipper prayer is the same as the monotheistic prayer? Allah taught our leaders how to pray just like He taught Adam the name of all things. And the believers are required to follow their leader.
I tell you I pray to Allah and you come back with idol worship prayer? your logical deduction is flawed.What utter tripe. Have you any idea what you're talking about? did Abraham pray the same as you do? did Jesus? does a christian child? do you think they are not 'doing it properly' if its not the same as yours? if I do 2 or 20 a day is that wrong? does God write up on the score card I overstepped on prayer if I do 20 prayers?
Now we have Ayisha?s hadith on lower and the upper bounds of salat 2-20 a day
I suppose you got this from the root meaning dictionary of hell. You must be a dear friend of satan. The timing and the salat structure are the same for all believers (Abraham, Jesus, Muhammad ??)
No your friend satan has clouded your brain and not seen there was another few questions there that you have again avoided. I have given nothing of bounds of salat, I leave that to your type to set boundaries on how many to do at each time. Where do you get that the times and structure of salat are the same, bring a verse.How can following Quran be a satanic system?
You are not following the Quran. You are following your desire which is inspired by satan.
Then he must have popped out of Quran when I read it as I follow what Allah says in Quran, not some other book or some other people as you do.How can praying to MY God in MY way with all MY heart be satanic?
Because you are not following the way Allah taught us the salat.This is getting more and more ridiculous as it goes on! How did Allah teach us salat? Please show me.
Welcome
because I may put my feet in the wrong angle or my nose may not touch the floor so many times in the ritualistic bowing and prostrating physical ritual and uttering words from my mouth only without it touching my heart?So you do follow the Bukhari hadith. Physical transmission of salat via believers cannot contain such rubbish.
Huh? are you reading anything before you reply? Where oh where do you get that I follow Bukhari hadith? ???You say common sense, if you had used common sense before posting the verse you would have looked up the arabic but you were so desperate to throw bricks you didnt even see if they were hard enough or not. Ismail told his family to pray and to give in charity, to thank God and be charitable, it is NOT saying he showed them the physical ritual and if God taught him this physical ritual do you think he came to earth and showed him "this is how I want it done and make sure you only have 5 points touching the floor when you prostrate to me or I will not listen and I want so many raka for this time and so many for another time and ignore the bit where I said not to be too quiet or too loud and you can instead be vocal in some raka and silent in another and that is what I meant by middle road"
Good people enjoin good things to their family. One cannot enjoin something to others if it cannot be verified and validated (salat timing & structure)
Bad people enjoin bad things to their family.
So its all based on
31.21 When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire?2.170 When it is said to them "Follow what Allah hath revealed" They say "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?
5.104 When it is said to them "Come to what Allah hath revealed; come to the Messenger" They say "Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following." what! even though their fathers were void of knowledge and guidance?
43.22 Nay! they say "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we do guide ourselves by their footsteps."
right, so kneeling beside my bed with my hands together and my eyes closed is fine as that's how I was taught by my family to pray to God, and it still worked fine.
This is an unintelligent response. What was the timing and structure of salat taught?
Why is it unintelligent? It's truth. Oh yes I could see why that would appear unintelligent to you.  
Your response was unintelligent and illogical.
There was no 'timing and structure' it was a case of talk to God whenever and whereever you wish, thank Him and ask Him and He will listen, and He did. Why would timing and structure come into it?Really do you think He is holding surgery up there and you can only pray at certain times in certain ways to get heard? Not your country's surgery time you have to wait for the next available appointment?
Go get a brain transplant with logic as an add on!
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Muhammed is not here now but when he was he judged any dispute BY THE BOOK that had been revealed to him. The BOOK is what we have, the baseless hadith that are a collection of fabrications are NOT what we were left with, we were left the BOOK only. So your illogical question is without knowledge and as baseless as the hadith of Bukhari. You wouldnt know logic if you fell over it.
Peace Ayisha,
Now let?s analyze the logic of what you wrote/your thought. You say Prophet Muhammad judged BY THE BOOK. This statement is not all inclusive and thus it is illogical and contradictory. Here is why
- Prophet Muhammad just got the job of prophethood/messengership
- Only few chapters of the Quran has been revealed thus far
- Prophet Muhammad has a dispute to settle
- According to you Prophet Muhammad cannot solve the dispute because he does not have THE BOOK. Ayisha forbids Prophet Muhammad to resolve the dispute in spite the fact that Allah has given Prophet Muhammad the wisdom to solve the dispute. This is Ayisha?s ILLOGICAL hadith. She is trying very hard to mislead us. You are exposed. You cannot mislead me
- According to Ayisha?s logic Prophet Muhammad had to have the complete BOOK before he can start his mission. This contradicts the Quran and defies common sense. This also means that Prophet Muhammad was keeping the message to himself until the whole book was complete. How absurd!!
Peace WayFinder,
I suppose the above is also your position since you concur with Ayisha?s writing and provide support to her.
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Peace WayFinder,
I suppose the above is also your position since you concur with Ayisha?s writing and provide support to her.
My positions is clear from MY own post through MY OWN writings.. NOT through your assumptions,illogical deductions,fabrications,lies,evil distortion... or in a lesser level, your misunderstanding. I have indeed posted my position clearly on this thread... you might want to check it out instead of assuming... I have sided with Ayisha on a PARTICULAR attitude of yours... the arrogance you express and the wrong accusations which you stick to the back of others due to your own fabrications... Consequently, even when it has been proven to you of being wrong.. your ego would not let you retract from your false claims/assumptions or apologize... therefore, this in turn, make you a liar... had you retracted, we would have gladly accepted that the blunder you committed was due to some misunderstanding... but that is not the case... since crookedness became evident when someone persists in his accusations even when proven to be wrong with clear black on white(or red) proof.
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I do not need to post your nonsense here as well... as i said... garbage cannot produce anything except more garbage... giveup
garbage cannot produce anything except more garbage... How TRUE.
I am so glad that you were able to understand this simple fact.
Your garbage = prophets must help/support angel or Gabriel
This will produce nothing but more GARBAGE.
One of them is Prophet Muhammad correcting Gabriel?s mistake. This is one of the many solution that satisfy the condition prophets must help/support angel or Gabriel
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Peace Ayisha,
Now let?s analyze the logic of what you wrote/your thought. You say Prophet Muhammad judged BY THE BOOK. This statement is not all inclusive and thus it is illogical and contradictory.
Then refer it to Allah as it was HIM that said it
And this (He commands) Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.
To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute
there are more.
Here is why
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Prophet Muhammad just got the job of prophethood/messengership
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Only few chapters of the Quran has been revealed thus far
really? get up to date guest, its all been revealed now. Oh wait, is this your hadith now? -
Prophet Muhammad has a dispute to settle
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According to you Prophet Muhammad cannot solve the dispute because he does not have THE BOOK. Ayisha forbids Prophet Muhammad to resolve the dispute in spite the fact that Allah has given Prophet Muhammad the wisdom to solve the dispute. This is Ayisha?s ILLOGICAL hadith. She is trying very hard to mislead us. You are exposed. You cannot mislead me
I don't need to as someone lese has already misled you. WE are also told to judge by what has been revealeve and in case you didn't know it Quran was not the first revelation and until the prophet GOT the revelation he was not a prophet but you have him as such before that and are trying to twist and turn what the books say.
- According to Ayisha?s logic Prophet Muhammad had to have the complete BOOK before he can start his mission. This contradicts the Quran and defies common sense. This also means that Prophet Muhammad was keeping the message to himself until the whole book was complete. How absurd!!
your analysis is flawed and you have added your own hadith and illogical reasoning to arrive at this.
Peace WayFinder,
I suppose the above is also your position since you concur with Ayisha?s writing and provide support to her.
More illogical rubbish
How about answering what you have been asked for a change?
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One of them is Prophet Muhammad correcting Gabriel?s mistake. This is one of the many solution that satisfy the condition prophets must help/support angel or Gabriel
This was YOUR fabrication and you have been asked question regarding us being told to support Allah. Now if you still claim that support means correcting mistakes then answer what does it mean when WE are to support Allah, does that also mean correcting mistakes? is that what you're trying to do, correct Allah?
Answer the question
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This was YOUR fabrication and you have been asked question regarding us being told to support Allah. Now if you still claim that support means correcting mistakes then answer what does it mean when WE are to support Allah, does that also mean correcting mistakes? is that what you're trying to do, correct Allah?
Answer the question
I did not say support means correcting an error. That is WayFinder interpretation of what I wrote. He is wrong!
Rather, I said one of the way prophets could have helped or supported Gabriel was to find errors in the message he delivered to him. Another way would be to offer him food. Yet another way would be to shelter him, him being tired after the long journey and so on & on??? These are all possible outcome of the so called truth ?prophets support angel or Gabriel?. All the outcomes are absurd because the proposition is absurd/falsehood (garbage).
WayFinder is trying to make a falsehood into truth. I test his proposition thru logical deduction. The outcomes are against the Quran and defy common sense. Therefore, I reject his proposition.
If we propose the messenger in 381 to be a human messenger then we don?t get absurd outcomes. All the outcomes are truth and in compliant with Quran because the proposition (assumption) is true.
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I did not say support means correcting an error. That is WayFinder interpretation of what I wrote. He is wrong!
Rather, I said one of the way prophets could have helped or supported Gabriel was to find errors in the message he delivered to him. Another way would be to offer him food. Yet another way would be to shelter him, him being tired after the long journey and so on & on??? These are all possible outcome of the so called truth ?prophets support angel or Gabriel?. All the outcomes are absurd because the proposition is absurd/falsehood (garbage).
WayFinder is trying to make a falsehood into truth. I test his proposition thru logical deduction. The outcomes are against the Quran and defy common sense. Therefore, I reject his proposition.
If we propose the messenger in 381 to be a human messenger then we don?t get absurd outcomes. All the outcomes are truth and in compliant with Quran because the proposition (assumption) is true.
Lets see if your foolishness is approved by current dictionary meanings of support... let us see if we find 'correct a mistake' in the list of definitions.
Definitions of support on the Web
give moral or psychological support, aid, or courage to; "She supported him during the illness"; "Her children always backed her up"
the activity of providing for or maintaining by supplying with money or necessities; "his support kept the family together"; "they gave him emotional support during difficult times"
support materially or financially; "he does not support his natural children"; "The scholarship supported me when I was in college"
aiding the cause or policy or interests of; "the president no longer has the support of his own party"; "they developed a scheme of mutual support"
back be behind; approve of; "He plumped for the Labor Party"; "I backed Kennedy in 1960"
hold be the physical support of; carry the weight of; "The beam holds up the roof"; "He supported me with one hand while I balanced on the beam"; "What's holding that mirror?"
a military operation (often involving new supplies of men and materiel) to strengthen a military force or aid in the performance of its mission; "they called for artillery support"
confirm establish or strengthen as with new evidence or facts; "his story confirmed my doubts"; "The evidence supports the defendant"
documentation documentary validation; "his documentation of the results was excellent"; "the strongest support for this view is the work of Jones"
subscribe adopt as a belief; "I subscribe to your view on abortion"
the financial means whereby one lives; "each child was expected to pay for their keep"; "he applied to the state for support"; "he could no longer earn his own livelihood"
corroborate support with evidence or authority or make more certain or confirm; "The stories and claims were born out by the evidence"
supporting structure that holds up or provides a foundation; "the statue stood on a marble support"
defend argue or speak in defense of; "She supported the motion to strike"
the act of bearing the weight of or strengthening; "he leaned against the wall for support"Is it a coincidence that we are UNABLE to find you distorted fabricated corrupted meaning of in the list of the approved definitions of the word as well as its intended meanings and/or implications? We think you have just invented a new meaning of the word and you SHOULD submit your new discovery to the dictionary editors so that they can update the definitions in their next version. You are a pro now. rotfl
Pay special attention to the implications of support highlighted in green.
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I did not say support means correcting an error. That is WayFinder interpretation of what I wrote. He is wrong!
No you are wrong, it was in your definition when you were twisting what wayfinder had said and applying your 'logical deductions'.Rather, I said one of the way prophets could have helped or supported Gabriel was to find errors in the message he delivered to him. Another way would be to offer him food. Yet another way would be to shelter him, him being tired after the long journey and so on & on??? These are all possible outcome of the so called truth ?prophets support angel or Gabriel?. All the outcomes are absurd because the proposition is absurd/falsehood (garbage).
so how does it stand on US supporting Allah then? I notice you keep avoiding that question. Do we give Him food or shelter Him or what? But thats what Quran SAYS that we support Allah and He will support us, explain that with your logical deductions if it's so ridiculous to think about 'supporting' Gabriel.47.7 RK O you who believe, if you support GOD, He will support you, and strengthen your foothold.
WayFinder is trying to make a falsehood into truth. I test his proposition thru logical deduction. The outcomes are against the Quran and defy common sense. Therefore, I reject his proposition.
You are trying to make a falsehood out of truth and your test was totally illogical and you tested a false hadith of your that YOU misunderstood of what has been said. Your own words and actions are against Quran and defy anyones common sense so your rejection means nothing.You have posted in here 'this is wrong' 'i reject' 'satanic' and all sorts but even when asked countless times you have not once said "this is how I do it and that it consistent with Prophet Muhammad?s way for such and such reason." and YOU are the one that said "A righteous person would have said this is how I do it and that it consistent with Prophet Muhammad?s way for such and such reason." so you even contradict yourself and by logical deduction I deduce that you are not a righteous person.
If we propose the messenger in 381 to be a human messenger then we don?t get absurd outcomes. All the outcomes are truth and in compliant with Quran because the proposition (assumption) is true.
What if we dont propose who or what the messenger in 3.81 is, human or otherwise? Is it going to throw earth off its axis or cause tidal waves or be against Quran?
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.