[:: This is how I made my Salaat ::]
-
Salaam Badr,
None of the aayaats talk about AlSalaat.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. KhanSalaam Mazhar,
Brother please look at my previous post and again I repeat "None of the aayaats talk about AlSalaat".
We are discussing about Salaat not Ruku.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan
Yeah this is about gymnastics ;D
-
Salaam brother,
You exclude Ruku from Assalat, and have a perception of "Waw" as that of English "And" giving a connotation of being a conjunction between two things of different and independent nature in all dimensions. Have I correctly understood you what you stated in earlier posts?
Yes.
For Assalat you need a . Do you agree that this is a correct proposition?
I did not understand what exactly you wanna say here...
Mohammed M. Khan
-
Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 071459 AM
You exclude Ruku from Assalat, and have a perception of "Waw" as that of English "And" giving a connotation of being a conjunction between two things of different and independent nature in all dimensions. Have I correctly understood you what you stated in earlier posts?Yes. mmkhan
Quote
For Assalat you need a . Do you agree that this is a correct proposition?I did not understand what exactly you wanna say here...
Salam mmkhan,
The above perception about English "And" and Arabic "Waw" is not correct in its restrictive nature but is much wider than this. Please see about both in Grammer books.
is a noun of place. And a noun of place is derived from a verb. So formal Salat is something physical act that needs a physical place for its performance/execution. Do you agree with this proposition?
-
Salaam Mazhar,
Salam mmkhan,
The above perception about English "And" and Arabic "Waw" is not correct in its restrictive nature but is much wider than this. Please see about both in Grammer books.
Can you please quote a two aayaats from AlQuraan for example?
is a noun of place. And a noun of place is derived from a verb. So formal Salat is something physical act that needs a physical place for its performance/execution. Do you agree with this proposition?
I agree, but still I did not understand your point.
Mohammed M. Khan
-
I really enjoyed this read...and it makes a lot of sense. Good work! bravo
I agree, i enjoyed this as well. I don't quite understand how 4101-103 can be translated to not mean physical ritualistic salat.
I also found this description of salat very interesting (from islamic-research.org)
http//www.islamic-research.org/religious-practices/41-salat/173-salat-words.html
-
I don't quite understand how 4101-103 can be translated to not mean physical ritualistic salat.
You may wish to consult this work or for background reading
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.htmlIt effectively kills the traditional interpretation of 4101-103, unless evidence can be brought to the contrary.
-
You may wish to consult this work or for background reading
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.htmlIt effectively kills the traditional interpretation of 4101-103, unless evidence can be brought to the contrary.
These articles are great, thanks Wakas.
Also, I wonder who will be the first to post 95 theses on the masjid door, ala Martin Luther. I totally feel like we are protestant Muslims.
-
Salaam bro,
I agree, i enjoyed this as well. I don't quite understand how 4101-103 can be translated to not mean physical ritualistic salat.
Thank you, may Allah guide us all towards Him pr
I also found this description of salat very interesting (from islamic-research.org)
http//www.islamic-research.org/religious-practices/41-salat/173-salat-words.html
From the above website I found this at the end of the page.
Summary of the Quranic words to be uttered in the Salat
1- First words "A"uzu b"Allah min Al-Shaytan Al-Rajeem" (I seek refuge in God from Satan the rejected" 1698
Allah did not ask us to say this at the beginning of AlSalaat.2- Al-Fatiha (The Key)
Not said this is 'The Key' of Salaat3- "Allahu Akbar" (God is Greatest) to be spoken frequently, 2185 and 17111.
'Allahu Akbar' is not the words to say in Salaat or at anytime. Allah did not use this word in AlQuraan at all. It is wrong to say such words that is the reason Allah did not use it in AlQuraan4- "Sobhan Rabi Al-Azeem" (Praise my Lord the Great). 5674
Again, it has to be said all the time, but particular to Salaat5- "Sobhan Rabi Al-Aala" (Praise my Lord the Most High). 871
Same as point no.46- The Shahada (Testimony) "Ash"hadu ana la illaha ila Allah" (I bear witness that there is no God other than God). 318
Correct! Again not related to Salaat in AlQuraan.7- "Al-Hamdu l"Allah alazee lam yatakhez waladan, wa lam yakun lahu shareek fee al mulk, wa lam yakun lahu waleyon min al zol". (Praise be to God who has never begotten a son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does He need an ally out of weakness). 17111
correct! It has to be said in Salaat as per AlQuraan8- The Salat ends with the words
???May Allah guide us all towards the Truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam bro,
Thank you, may Allah guide us all towards Him pr
From the above website I found this at the end of the page.
Summary of the Quranic words to be uttered in the Salat
1- First words "A"uzu b"Allah min Al-Shaytan Al-Rajeem" (I seek refuge in God from Satan the rejected" 1698
Allah did not ask us to say this at the beginning of AlSalaat.2- Al-Fatiha (The Key)
Not said this is 'The Key' of Salaat3- "Allahu Akbar" (God is Greatest) to be spoken frequently, 2185 and 17111.
'Allahu Akbar' is not the words to say in Salaat or at anytime. Allah did not use this word in AlQuraan at all. It is wrong to say such words that is the reason Allah did not use it in AlQuraan4- "Sobhan Rabi Al-Azeem" (Praise my Lord the Great). 5674
Again, it has to be said all the time, but particular to Salaat5- "Sobhan Rabi Al-Aala" (Praise my Lord the Most High). 871
Same as point no.46- The Shahada (Testimony) "Ash"hadu ana la illaha ila Allah" (I bear witness that there is no God other than God). 318
Correct! Again not related to Salaat in AlQuraan.7- "Al-Hamdu l"Allah alazee lam yatakhez waladan, wa lam yakun lahu shareek fee al mulk, wa lam yakun lahu waleyon min al zol". (Praise be to God who has never begotten a son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does He need an ally out of weakness). 17111
correct! It has to be said in Salaat as per AlQuraan8- The Salat ends with the words
???May Allah guide us all towards the Truth pr
Mohammed M. KhanI believe you're right, the influence of sects in so great that makes people looks for anything similar to sectarian salat, times, words etc , even though the salat is detailed in the quran , but so simple that people cannot see it, Standing reciting verses from their lord
prostrationg , glorifying their lord.people look for incline and what to say , they'll never find it except guesssing, because it's an innvation
people look for words as allahu akbar, they can never find it because it's an innovation
people look for words to say before satat, they can never find it, because it's an innovation
people look for tashahud in salat, they can never find it , it's just guessing, because it's an innovationmany verse say , prostration standing worshipping their lord , as simple as that
people look for a ritualistic rules and regulations, and can't accept the simple detailed salat from the quranthe word Rukuaa is creating confusion, because they mix it with the word inhinaa,( incline) , wich is also inexistant in the quran, means it's an innovation
an rukuaa is done on the ground, see the verse of david kharra rakiaan wa anab, and kharra means fall on the ground, and incline isn't falling on the ground, because when u incline, you're still standing on your feet, it's a mouvement of the back and not of the feet.
peace -
Salaaman bro,
I believe you're right, the influence of sects in so great that makes people looks for anything similar to sectarian salat, times, words etc , even though the salat is detailed in the quran , but so simple that people cannot see it, Standing reciting verses from their lord
prostrationg , glorifying their lord.Reciting verses? In Salaat ???
443
443 O you who believe, do not approach the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
You have "SAY" brother in Salaat not recite. You can find the same in 17111 "Qul".
Another important point is to say in the language that you understand, i.e., your own language.
people look for incline and what to say , they'll never find it except guesssing, because it's an innvation
people look for words as allahu akbar, they can never find it because it's an innovation
people look for words to say before satat, they can never find it, because it's an innovation
people look for tashahud in salat, they can never find it , it's just guessing, because it's an innovationmany verse say , prostration standing worshipping their lord , as simple as that
people look for a ritualistic rules and regulations, and can't accept the simple detailed salat from the quranTrue! I agree.
the word Rukuaa is creating confusion, because they mix it with the word inhinaa,( incline) , wich is also inexistant in the quran, means it's an innovation
an rukuaa is done on the ground, see the verse of david kharra rakiaan wa anab, and kharra means fall on the ground, and incline isn't falling on the ground, because when u incline, you're still standing on your feet, it's a mouvement of the back and not of the feet.
peaceWow! MashaAllah, I was not aware of the above red quote, inshaAllah, I will check, thanks for showing me bro.
And how about the blue one?
2573
2573 And those who when they are reminded of the revelations of their Lord, they do not fall on them deaf and blind.
May Allah increase us all in true knowledge pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaaman bro,
Reciting verses? In Salaat ???
443
443 O you who believe, do not approach the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
You have "SAY" brother in Salaat not recite. You can find the same in 17111 "Qul".
Another important point is to say in the language that you understand, i.e., your own language.
True! I agree.
Wow! MashaAllah, I was not aware of the above red quote, inshaAllah, I will check, thanks for showing me bro.And how about the blue one?
2573
2573 And those who when they are reminded of the revelations of their Lord, they do not fall on them deaf and blind.
May Allah increase us all in true knowledge pr
Mohammed M. Khan...until you know what you are saying...17111
You're right, it sounds like speech or debate. I don't get it.This is how I see it
Hast thou not seen that Allah, He it is Whom all who are in the heavens and the earth praise, and the birds in their flight? Of each He knoweth verily the its worship and the its praise; and Allah is Aware of what they do 2441
According to the verse above, it's allah who teach his creatures how to do salat and tasbeeh, birds, animals, sun, moon, etc... including humans, therefiore we only learn how to praise him through his revelations and through his teachings, not through prophete mohamed and hadiths, and not through prophet Abraham as some people like to say...
Those who spend the night in adoration of their Lord prostrate and standing 2564
Is one who worships devoutly during the hours of the night prostrating himself or standing (in adoration), who takes heed of the Hereafter, and who places his hope in the Mercy of his Lord (like one who does not)? Say "Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition." 398-9
these verses above, saying the detaild salat, standing and prostrating
( (
Stand (to pray) by night, but not all night Half of it or a little less Or a little more; and recite the Qur'an in slow, measured rhythmic tones. 732-4...and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony 1778
these verses above, saying it's about reading the quran while standing.And part of the night, prostrate thyself to Him; and glorify Him a long night through. 7626
Only those believe in Our Signs, who when they are recited to them fall down prostrating, and celebrate the praises of their Lord, nor are they (ever) puffed up with pride. 3215
These verses above, saying tasbeeh ( glorification) while in prostration.
ALl these verses show that the detailed salat in the quran is Standing and prostrating, but 7111 is saying (...until you know what you are saying...)
Can you clarify plz
-
Salaaman LB13,
...until you know what you are saying...17111
You're right, it sounds like speech or debate. I don't get it.InshaAllah, I will try to explain. I think you get confused.
This is how I see it
Hast thou not seen that Allah, He it is Whom all who are in the heavens and the earth praise, and the birds in their flight? Of each He knoweth verily the its worship and the its praise; and Allah is Aware of what they do 2441
According to the verse above, it's allah who teach his creatures how to do salat and tasbeeh, birds, animals, sun, moon, etc... including humans, therefiore we only learn how to praise him through his revelations and through his teachings, not through prophete mohamed and hadiths, and not through prophet Abraham as some people like to say...
As per the aayat above, it says that everyone in heavens and earth and birds who fly IN ROWS , they all do tasbih for Allah and EVERYONE knows THEIR Salaat and also THEIR tasbih.
Those who spend the night in adoration of their Lord prostrate and standing 2564
Is one who worships devoutly during the hours of the night prostrating himself or standing (in adoration), who takes heed of the Hereafter, and who places his hope in the Mercy of his Lord (like one who does not)? Say "Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition." 398-9
In 2564 the word used is 'Yabeetoona', I understand it simply means 'Spend ' but the translator add 'Night' also in it.
You can also see the problem in the above translation that in 2564 it says "Prostrate AND Standing" for "sujjadaun WA qiyaama(n)" but in 399 it says "Prostrating OR Standing" for "saajidaun WA qaa-ima(n)". Both the aayaats used "WA" that simply means "AND" not "OR".
these verses above, saying the detaild salat, standing and prostrating
Nope! detail of Salaat is Standing THEN Prostrating as per 4102, not Prostrating AND Standing as per the above aayaats.
( (
Stand (to pray) by night, but not all night Half of it or a little less Or a little more; and recite the Qur'an in slow, measured rhythmic tones. 732-4This is referring to 1779 "Fatahajjad BIHI" not 1778.
...and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony 1778
these verses above, saying it's about reading the quran while standing.How did you get brother READING THE QURAAN? Look at the Arabic text, it says "Reading" same as in 7517-18 not "The Reading". The reading always refers to The Quraan, but when it is used without AL that simply means READING.
So, 1778 means READING AT THE FAJR, remember! AlFajr is the time of Salaat as per 2458 and also as per the context of 1778 "Duluki AlShamsi Ila Ghasakhi AlLayli" is referring to "Salaat AlEishaan" and "Quraana AlFajri" is referring to "Salaat AlFajr".
There is no reading of AlQuraan at the time of Salaat.
And part of the night, prostrate thyself to Him; and glorify Him a long night through. 7626
Only those believe in Our Signs, who when they are recited to them fall down prostrating, and celebrate the praises of their Lord, nor are they (ever) puffed up with pride. 3215
These verses above, saying tasbeeh ( glorification) while in prostration.
nope
7626 did not say "Tasbeeh WHILE IN prostration" nor 3215 says so. Allah is very specific of His words, He said "WA" means "AND" in both the above aayaats.
ALl these verses show that the detailed salat in the quran is Standing and prostrating, but 7111 is saying (...until you know what you are saying...)
Can you clarify plz
"ALI" Who is ALI ??? Oh, I am sorry to answer all the questions above cause you want ALI to answer your questions?
7111? It is not about Salaat.
I hope you understand now that all the aayaats that you have quoted are not in reference with our Salaat. Please read 17110-111 to know what you have to SAY.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaaman LB13,
You're right, I quoted a few verses , because there is a misconception about rukuaa, and i didn't post them, but some of your analysis I still cannot understand even though we're in total agreement that salat is standing and prostrating, specially the verse 4102 , salat of the prophet himself describes the order perfectly, thanks for posting that verse
now there is another oneBehold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (saying) "Associate not any thing (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up and bowing in prostration (therein in prayer). 2226
To take out the misconception of the difference between rukua and (inhinaa) , inhinaa literraly means bowing or incline, and it's inexistant in the quran while Rukuaa extst and according to verse 3824 , it's done on the ground, because falling means on the ground , if it means bowing, we cannot say kharra , because while bowing or inclining, we still standing on our feet .
And David gathered that We had tried him he asked forgiveness of his Lord, fell down, bowing (in prostration), and turned 3824
I still dont understand one thing, prostrating and glorifying doesn't have to mean two things done in two different times
for exemple
allah descended the book and widom .. doesn't mean too book
allah descended the book and balance .. doesn't mean two different thing, it's in the same time a book and balance
also the book and fourquan, it's in the same time the book and the furquancan u clarify what your learned about what to say in standing, and prostrating, and how to end salat, with an invocations or hamdullillah ? .. thanx
Ohh one more thing, Ali made me laugh though, i meant to write ALL , it was a misstyping lol if there is a Ali in this forum, it wasn't mean you . peace
-
Salaaman LB13,
In each of your reply of my post, you start with "You're right" then you end your post with tons of confusions
You're right, I quoted a few verses , because there is a misconception about rukuaa, and i didn't post them, but some of your analysis I still cannot understand even though we're in total agreement that salat is standing and prostrating, specially the verse 4102 , salat of the prophet himself describes the order perfectly, thanks for posting that verse
Can you put forward what you don't understand brother, so that it will easy for me to understand your confusion.
now there is another one
Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (saying) "Associate not any thing (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up and bowing in prostration (therein in prayer). 2226
Where did you get this "Therein in prayer" from the translator or you added yourself? Allah know how to talk bro. He said exactly what He wanted to say.
Look at the following two examples to just may you understand, inshaAllah.
1785
1785 And they ask you concerning the Spirit. Say The Spirit is from the authority of my Lord; and the knowledge you were given was but very little.
These are the two parts of the aayat and it has no relation with each other. In a single aayat totally different messages has been said.
You see brother, how Allah specify things, look at another example
3353
3353 O you who believe, do not enter the homes of the prophet unless you are invited to a meal, without you forcing such an invitation. But if you are invited, you may enter. And when you finish eating, you shall leave, without staying to wait for a narrative. This used to bother the prophet, and he was shy to tell you. But Allah does not shy away from the truth. And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm the messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offence with Allah.
Again, same aayat starts with 'AlNabiyy' but ends with 'Rasool Allah' and at the end you are said not to marry HIS wives after him, whose wives you are not allowed to marry, Rosool Allah's or AlNabiyy's wives?
To take out the misconception of the difference between rukua and (inhinaa) , inhinaa literraly means bowing or incline, and it's inexistant in the quran while Rukuaa extst and according to verse 3824 , it's done on the ground, because falling means on the ground , if it means bowing, we cannot say kharra , because while bowing or inclining, we still standing on our feet .
"Inhinaa", is this the word from AlQuraan? I couldn't find it, can you please quote the aayat for the same? Thanks.
How did you conclude that "Kharra" means "falling on the ground". I already quoted you an aayat in regards to the same to ponder upon, but seems you missed it. Anyways, here again I will quote it for you.
2573
2573 And those who when they are reminded of the revelations of their Lord, they do not fall on them deaf and blind.
How will you translate Kharru here?
Remember one thing brother, many of the words of AlQuraan has a metaphorical meaning OR a literal/physical meaning, like
1- That boy can write with his both hands.
2- You cannot escape from the hands of police.
This both means same and you use the same word for that but the meaning has to be checked whether it is literal or metaphorical. Remember one more thing that no word has Dual or Multiple meaning in AlQuraan.
And David gathered that We had tried him he asked forgiveness of his Lord, fell down, bowing (in prostration), and turned 3824
Thanks again for this aayat, it is very sweetly said "Kharra Raaki-'an", MashaAllah.
I still dont understand one thing, prostrating and glorifying doesn't have to mean two things done in two different times
for exemple
allah descended the book and widom .. doesn't mean too book
allah descended the book and balance .. doesn't mean two different thing, it's in the same time a book and balance
also the book and fourquan, it's in the same time the book and the furquanWhy not? Look at this aayat.
20130
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and during times of the night glorify; and at various parts of the day perhaps you may be content.
By reading the above aayat how and what do you understand brother, please let me know, inshaAllah, I will try to explain after that in detail.
can u clarify what your learned about what to say in standing, and prostrating, and how to end salat, with an invocations or hamdullillah ? .. thanx
1- Salaat is for remembrance of your Allah - 2014
2- Say "Praise be to Allah who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness." - 17111
3- Glorify His Greatness - 17111
4- Remember Allah as He taught you - 2239
5- Prostrate to end your Salaat - 4102
Ohh one more thing, Ali made me laugh though, i meant to write ALL , it was a misstyping lol if there is a Ali in this forum, it wasn't mean you . peace
LOL D
NOTE Please read carefully cause I found you missing some important points from my previous posts.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Why not? Look at this aayat.
20130
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and during times of the night glorify; and at various parts of the day perhaps you may be content.
I understand this Ayat is gving the limits of the times, and the amount of time of every salat, and it's talking in pluriel, meaning every day of our live, and here how it goes
When you read
= Parts of NIGHTS , Pluriel aof Layl is Layl, pluriel of limited nights is Layali, singular of Layl is Layla, part of layl is also Layl
and Anaa is pluriel for Ann , wich means moment or time or instant etc... it's pluriel is anaa
and Atraf Nahar , both in pluriel, for tarafay is two, and indifinite for all days is atraf nahar, because the pluriel of Nahar is also Nahar , before the stting of the sun and before the rising is also pluriel in this case this ayat
this ayat is about two times , morning and evening, ant it's expressing the times, limts and al in pluriel
this is how i understand it -
-
Salaaman LB13,
Why not? Look at this aayat.
When you read
= Parts of NIGHTS , Pluriel aof Layl is Layl, pluriel of limited nights is Layali, singular of Layl is Layla, part of layl is also Layl
and Anaa is pluriel for Ann , wich means moment or time or instant etc... it's pluriel is anaa
and Atraf Nahar , both in pluriel, for tarafay is two, and indifinite for all days is atraf nahar, because the pluriel of Nahar is also Nahar , before the stting of the sun and before the rising is also pluriel in this case this ayat
this ayat is about two times , morning and evening, ant it's expressing the times, limts and al in pluriel
this is how i understand itHey! I did not asked you to teach me Arabic grammar D
I understand this Ayat is gving the limits of the times, and the amount of time of every salat, and it's talking in pluriel, meaning every day of our live, and here how it goes
Where is the word Salaat in this aayat? I couldn't see it.
Anyways, here I put forward my understanding of this aayat, inshaAllah.
20130
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and during times of the night glorify; and at various parts of the day perhaps you may be content.
This part I think you already know, so need for any explanation
And repeatedly/continuously praise your Lord
Sabbaha or Tasbeeh means to 'repeat' or 'routine' or 'continuous' etc. Look at the following
737
737 For you have many duties/routine work during the day.
before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at parts of the night
So do routine work and at various/all parts of the day
that you may be content
Please correct me if you find me wrong.
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan
