The Night of Decree is the 27th day of the 9th moon: Incontrovertible proof
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Selam
I think a point has been missed here. The Quran's description of Ramadan does not rely on any calander but naturally occuring phenomena. This meaning that at any point if an error is made in the calander system for any reason the actual timming of Ramadan could easily be determined by Allah's natural laws which we could easily witness around us. This way no one could lead no one else astray as the phenomena does not require mans input. Anyways, this is my understanding of the situation, Allah has given us free will to choose.
May Allah's guidance be with us.
Peace
Peace
Your statement is very subjective. It does not add any value unless you say my system (my way) give me an error of plus minus 0.00000000000000001 and here is the proof of it. In reality, the system you and Ayman are advocating makes an error of more than 30 days. If you invented new system then please give the detail of that system.
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Peace
Your statement is very subjective. It does not add any value unless you say my system (my way) give me an error of plus minus 0.00000000000000001 and here is the proof of it. In reality, the system you and Ayman are advocating makes an error of more than 30 days. If you invented new system then please give the detail of that system.
Peace Guest
Hope you are well. Just to reply to the above I would like to say that the lunar calendar is out of sink with all natural systems, e.g. we could not use it to determine the seasons. What you have stated is not proof at all. How did you workout the error of plus/minus 10^-16? I think I have missed the point ???
In short no matter what calendar we use its only purpose is to serve as organising our lives. The Quran does not mention no calendar in use today but rather markers that are naturally occuring in which we can find a reference point inorder to count. The Islamic lunar calander only came into being around 638 A.D. The question you must therefore ask is, what calander was in use before then, considering our prophets death occured around 632 A.D.?
Peace
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Peace Guest
Hope you are well. Just to reply to the above I would like to say that the lunar calendar is out of sink with all natural systems, e.g. we could not use it to determine the seasons. What you have stated is not proof at all. How did you workout the error of plus/minus 10^-16? I think I have missed the point ???
In short no matter what calendar we use its only purpose is to serve as organising our lives. The Quran does not mention no calendar in use today but rather markers that are naturally occuring in which we can find a reference point inorder to count. The Islamic lunar calander only came into being around 638 A.D. The question you must therefore ask is, what calander was in use before then, considering our prophets death occured around 632 A.D.?
Peace
Peace
Lunar calendar is not out of sync with all natural systems. Lunar cycle itself is a natural system (Allah?s system). And what is season got to do with our deen. Nothing!
The lunar cycle, solar cycle and seasons are independent natural phenomenon. None of them are in synch with each other. If you use lunar cycle to stay in synch with the seasons, you will have to use a correction factor, say X. If you use solar cycle to stay in synch with the seasons, you will have to use a correction factor as well, say Y. The value of X may be larger than the value Y, the fact is a correction is required.
You can track the seasons with lunar cycle by applying the correction X. Likewise you can track the seasons with solar system by applying the correction factor Y. The key point is none of them are naturally in synch with the seasons. And this has nothing to do with religion.
You have talked about a natural marker. How accurately can you get back to the marker from year to year? You seem to imply the error is zero. I made the zero to a very small number. How do you assure yourself that your starting point is the same every year and not off by say 30 days.
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Peace
Lunar calendar is not out of sync with all natural systems. Lunar cycle itself is a natural system (Allah?s system). And what is season got to do with our deen. Nothing!
???The lunar cycle, solar cycle and seasons are independent natural phenomenon. None of them are in synch with each other. If you use lunar cycle to stay in synch with the seasons, you will have to use a correction factor, say X. If you use solar cycle to stay in synch with the seasons, you will have to use a correction factor as well, say Y. The value of X may be larger than the value Y, the fact is a correction is required.
The lunar cycle, the solar cycle and the seasons are from Allah, not a phenomenon. They are prefectly in sync with each other. The number of months in a year is 12 according to Allah. The moons orbit around the earth is once every 29.53 days, so x 12 = 354.36 in one year if the islamic calendar uses 12 lunar cycles. The Earth and its orbiting moon orbit the sun once every 365.25 days. The Islamic man made calendar has given the 12 months 30 (or 29) days each, and the total in a year is 354 days or sometimes 355 days, so this is out of sync with the solar calendar which give the seasons and the vegetation of those seasons by 11 days a year. The islamic calendar used now is not a lunar calendar based on any astronomical calculations as a lunar calendar is.
The calendar you are refering to with your x and y values is to bring it into sync. The original calendar used when Muhammed was here was a lunisolar calendar and every 3 years there was an intercalary month or a leap month added. This was repeated through all the months over the years so in the leap year you have Muarram to Dh al-ajja + Dh al-ajja. the next leap year you have 2 months of Muarram then complete to Dh al-ajja, the next leap year you have Muarram and 2 months of afar then complete the year. With this you are postponing some forbidden months till the following month, cant you see that? So some leap years would even have 2 months of 'Ramadan' too. This obviously was what Allah referred to in verse 9.37 regarding postponing forbidden months.The Islamic calendar used now by most of the Muslim world was brought in after Muhammeds death
You can track the seasons with lunar cycle by applying the correction X. Likewise you can track the seasons with solar system by applying the correction factor Y. The key point is none of them are naturally in synch with the seasons. And this has nothing to do with religion.
the solar calendar is in sync with the seasons and adding leap day every 4 years brings it in sync. This has everything to do with Allah and it is in Quran that you were given sun and moon to measure time and count the years and that you were given stars to guide you.You have talked about a natural marker. How accurately can you get back to the marker from year to year? You seem to imply the error is zero. I made the zero to a very small number. How do you assure yourself that your starting point is the same every year and not off by say 30 days.
you cannot make zero to a small number. You made the variation to a small number but you were not basing it on anything and took numbers out of your head. As I have said above the calendar used was off by 30 days and thats why there was a month added every 3 years because the Lunar cycle is out of sync with the solar one. The natural marker would be the sun and the seasons, the earth travelling round the sun, 365.25 days a year from one spring to the next spring etc. That is a marker. The moon travels round the earth but the earth AND its moon both travel around the sun, no sun = no life
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Peace
Lunar calendar is not out of sync with all natural systems. Lunar cycle itself is a natural system (Allah?s system). And what is season got to do with our deen. Nothing!
The lunar cycle, solar cycle and seasons are independent natural phenomenon. None of them are in synch with each other. If you use lunar cycle to stay in synch with the seasons, you will have to use a correction factor, say X. If you use solar cycle to stay in synch with the seasons, you will have to use a correction factor as well, say Y. The value of X may be larger than the value Y, the fact is a correction is required.
You can track the seasons with lunar cycle by applying the correction X. Likewise you can track the seasons with solar system by applying the correction factor Y. The key point is none of them are naturally in synch with the seasons. And this has nothing to do with religion.
You have talked about a natural marker. How accurately can you get back to the marker from year to year? You seem to imply the error is zero. I made the zero to a very small number. How do you assure yourself that your starting point is the same every year and not off by say 30 days.
Selam guest
The sighting of the starting point is described here
Anytime the moon is full, the sun and the moon are on opposite sides of the earth. Thus, if one is high in the sky, as the sun is around the summer solstice, the moon must be low. Of course, this is 100% consistent. So full moons that occur around the summer solstice are special because they follow the lowest path across the sky of all of the year's full moons.
The "scorching" aspect of the full moon occurs due to the same phenomenon that gives sunsets their red color. It is the scattering of light in the earth's dusty atmosphere close to the horizon. Thus, a full-moon that hangs lower across the horizon will appear and stay redder than one that quickly climbs to a higher altitude. Also, for some reason, our brains are wired to perceive such low hanging red full moons as much larger than normal. In addition, the red full-moon after the summer solstice is special because it occurs when the weather is starting to get very hot. Thus, the two aspects of "scorching" (the red color and heat) are associated with this particular full-moon.
Because of its color and appearance being associated with the hotter time of the year many ancient cultures had names for the full moon after the summer solstice such as hot moon, blood moon, red moon, etc. In a flat desert with its dusty atmosphere and very hot weather, this "scorching full moon" would have appeared very dramatic to the pre-quranic Arabs.
This is all easily verifiable by observing the full moon after the summer solstice when it appears. This is one of the easiest to witness attention-grabbing sights in the night sky.
It happens once a year every year. What a wonderful marker.
Peace
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Selam guest
The sighting of the starting point is described here
Anytime the moon is full, the sun and the moon are on opposite sides of the earth. Thus, if one is high in the sky, as the sun is around the summer solstice, the moon must be low. Of course, this is 100% consistent. So full moons that occur around the summer solstice are special because they follow the lowest path across the sky of all of the year's full moons.
The "scorching" aspect of the full moon occurs due to the same phenomenon that gives sunsets their red color. It is the scattering of light in the earth's dusty atmosphere close to the horizon. Thus, a full-moon that hangs lower across the horizon will appear and stay redder than one that quickly climbs to a higher altitude. Also, for some reason, our brains are wired to perceive such low hanging red full moons as much larger than normal. In addition, the red full-moon after the summer solstice is special because it occurs when the weather is starting to get very hot. Thus, the two aspects of "scorching" (the red color and heat) are associated with this particular full-moon.
Because of its color and appearance being associated with the hotter time of the year many ancient cultures had names for the full moon after the summer solstice such as hot moon, blood moon, red moon, etc. In a flat desert with its dusty atmosphere and very hot weather, this "scorching full moon" would have appeared very dramatic to the pre-quranic Arabs.
This is all easily verifiable by observing the full moon after the summer solstice when it appears. This is one of the easiest to witness attention-grabbing sights in the night sky.
It happens once a year every year. What a wonderful marker.
Peace
Peace
How do you determine the full moon? What is the criterion?
How do you know that full moon you are looking at is a FULL MOON not a day away from the actual full moon? It is not an on/off situation. Run a test with humans and you will know what I mean. This is the first error!
The second error you will make is with full moon that occurs few days prior to summer solstice vs. the full moon after the summer solstice. There is your 30 day error. Just run an impartial test to determine the fact for yourself.
The third error will be the 13th moon. Somehow you have to make it disappear.
All these issues were discussed in the hot Ramadan thread. There is no need to rewrite them again in this thread.
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Peace
How do you determine the full moon? What is the criterion?
How do you know that full moon you are looking at is a FULL MOON not a day away from the actual full moon?
Seems we have someone who never took the time to observe the moon in his entire life... poor lad. Maybe he should try to measure the roundness of the moon with a coin... or an egg ... or an orange... rotfl
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Peace brother WayFinder,
Seems we have someone who never took the time to observe the moon in his entire life... poor lad. Maybe he should try to measure the roundness of the moon with a coin... or an egg ... or an orange... rotfl
We don't even need a coin, an egg or an orange . The god tells us exactly and very simply how to determine the full moon
- So I do swear by the redness of dusk.
http//i56.tinypic.com/2us79mo.jpg
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And the night and what it enshrouds.
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And the moon when it becomes symmetric/full.
http//i47.tinypic.com/2nqe0yh.jpg
After sunset when the sky is glowing red,
the night enshrouds the sky from the opposite direction
where the full symmetric moon appears.Guest ignores that the full-moon and the sun are on opposite sides of the earth. So the actual full-moon will appear shortly after sunset in 180 degrees opposite direction from where the darkness enshrouds the sky. This is why there has NEVER been any dispute amongst ANY people on the full-moon while EVERY SINGLE YEAR there are MANY disputes even in the same region and between neighbors about the waxing crescent moon.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayisha,
Now that sort of sunset we get on the Nile in winter only, not in summer. I have some amazing pics of the reds and oranges from December sunsets
It is because in Egypt there are usually no clouds in the summer to further defract the light. On the East Coast of the US we get those kind of sunsets all the time sun. I am not sure where this pic was taken though. It is just a picture of dusk I found on line.
In the desert the sunsets look very red and dramatic because of the dusty atmosphere increasing the defraction of light.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman
I witnessed the full moon which you are describing in London this year. However, did not really know the significance of what I was seeing until I read your notes. It even made me pull over to the side, get out of my car and watch it in amazment, the redness of the moon and also how big it appeared was breath taking. I just wished I had a camera to capture that moment and share it.
Peace
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Seems we have someone who never took the time to observe the moon in his entire life... poor lad. Maybe he should try to measure the roundness of the moon with a coin... or an egg ... or an orange... rotfl
Hey, I thought you were hiding behind Ayisha?s skirt. You had to come out to make fun of yourself again. Didn?t I tell you that you don?t know the implication of your own writing? Like Ayisha you respond without even understanding the question.
For your information the Full Moon, the moon day before the full moon, and the moon day after the full moon, looks the same with naked eyes. You need telescope or binocular to see the difference in the moon disk. I suppose the average Arabs during the time of Prophet Muhammad was walking with a telescope to find the easy marker. If you remove the calculated full moon reference from you head you will pick the day before or the day after moon as the full moon.
Unlike you, I have already validated the theory with an experiment. I asked people who knew nothing about the experiment, to identify the moon that appeared one day before the full moon; they said it was a full moon. An error! I did the same with the moon that appeared day after the full moon. They said it was a full moon. Another error. And you call this a clear cut marker. Lies after lies whose root can be traced back to root meaning dictionary.
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The lunar cycle, the solar cycle and the seasons are from Allah, not a phenomenon. They are prefectly in sync with each other.
Peace Ayisha,
I hate to tell you that you don?t know the meaning of synch in this situation. I will leave it at that.
the solar calendar is in sync with the seasons and adding leap day every 4 years brings it in sync. This has everything to do with Allah and it is in Quran that you were given sun and moon to measure time and count the years and that you were given stars to guide you.
Your own statement proves that the solar calendar is not in synch with the seasons. If it is in perfect sync then you wouldn?t be adding anything to it! The fact that you are adding something tells me that it is out of sync without the additional thing.
As I have said above the calendar used was off by 30 days and thats why there was a month added every 3 years because the Lunar cycle is out of sync with the solar one.
Previously you said ?The lunar cycle, the solar cycle and the seasons are from Allah, not a phenomenon. They are prefectly in sync with each other. ?
Now you are saying ??.the Lunar cycle is out of sync with the solar one?. Can you understand these are contradictory statements? You should determine your limit and stay within it!
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Hey, I thought you were hiding behind Ayishas skirt.
police
You had to come out to make fun of yourself again. Didnt I tell you that you dont know the implication of your own writing? Like Ayisha you respond without even understanding the question.
No... we know nothing here... you are the only person who knows everything... guess what... I dont know what i am writing right now!
For your information the Full Moon, the moon day before the full moon, and the moon day after the full moon, looks the same with naked eyes. You need telescope or binocular to see the difference in the moon disk. I suppose the average Arabs during the time of Prophet Muhammad was walking with a telescope to find the easy marker. If you remove the calculated full moon reference from you head you will pick the day before or the day after moon as the full moon.
Hmmm... the arabs failed to do this.. by civilizations which predates the arabs by long periods were able to do this.... and moreover, they did it accurately... Such as the mayan calendar.. which remains accurate upto this date.. each eclipse and every moon phases are accurate.. http//www.scribd.com/doc/36215072/Maya-Astronomy
Keep your garbage in your mouth next time! Do not come here to distort facts...
Unlike you, I have already validated the theory with an experiment. I asked people who knew nothing about the experiment, to identify the moon that appeared one day before the full moon; they said it was a full moon. An error! I did the same with the moon that appeared day after the full moon. They said it was a full moon. Another error. And you call this a clear cut marker. Lies after lies whose root can be traced back to root meaning dictionary.
Seems that according to you... God made an error and every one of us should have been born with telescopic eyes or with a binocular in hand... this is pure bull_____!
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Hey, I thought you were hiding behind Ayisha?s skirt. You had to come out to make fun of yourself again. Didn?t I tell you that you don?t know the implication of your own writing? Like Ayisha you respond without even understanding the question.
see 33.58For your information the Full Moon, the moon day before the full moon, and the moon day after the full moon, looks the same with naked eyes. You need telescope or binocular to see the difference in the moon disk. I suppose the average Arabs during the time of Prophet Muhammad was walking with a telescope to find the easy marker. If you remove the calculated full moon reference from you head you will pick the day before or the day after moon as the full moon.
Unlike you, I have already validated the theory with an experiment. I asked people who knew nothing about the experiment, to identify the moon that appeared one day before the full moon; they said it was a full moon. An error! I did the same with the moon that appeared day after the full moon. They said it was a full moon. Another error. And you call this a clear cut marker. Lies after lies whose root can be traced back to root meaning dictionary.
confirms Aymans red large red moon that only happens on one day peace
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Peace Ayisha,
I hate to tell you that you don?t know the meaning of synch in this situation. I will leave it at that.
why bother replying if you cant explain why?Your own statement proves that the solar calendar is not in synch with the seasons. If it is in perfect sync then you wouldn?t be adding anything to it! The fact that you are adding something tells me that it is out of sync without the additional thing.
Previously you said ?The lunar cycle, the solar cycle and the seasons are from Allah, not a phenomenon. They are prefectly in sync with each other. ?
Now you are saying ??.the Lunar cycle is out of sync with the solar one?. Can you understand these are contradictory statements? You should determine your limit and stay within it!
I would have to go on to embryo steps for you but then you still have a barrier so no point
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Peace brother WayFinder,
We don't even need a coin, an egg or an orange ). The god tells us exactly and very simply how to determine the full moon
- So I do swear by the redness of dusk.
http//i56.tinypic.com/2us79mo.jpg
-
And the night and what it enshrouds.
-
And the moon when it becomes symmetric/full.
http//i47.tinypic.com/2nqe0yh.jpg
After sunset when the sky is glowing red,
the night enshrouds the sky from the opposite direction
where the full symmetric moon appears.Peace Ayman,
Just to make sure, from what you are proposing, i take it that you do equate (wa 'l-qamara Id.aa 'ttasaqa/and the moon when it becomes full) with (shahr), is this correct?
ed minor typo
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No... we know nothing here... you are the only person who knows everything... guess what... I dont know what i am writing right now!
Hmmm... the arabs failed to do this.. by civilizations which predates the arabs by long periods were able to do this.... and moreover, they did it accurately... Such as the mayan calendar.. which remains accurate upto this date.. each eclipse and every moon phases are accurate.. http//www.scribd.com/doc/36215072/Maya-Astronomy
Finally, you spoke the truth ?I dont know what i am writing right now!?
If you knew what you are writing then you would have known that the clear marker bull ?. you are advocating should require No technological aid to determine the so called clear marker. In other word, regular Joe Schmo should find the marker with their naked eyes. Therefore, when you brought the mayan crap you were contradicting yourself with your dearest clear marker concept. Didn?t I tell you that you don?t know the implication of your own writing?