Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
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peace all,
I only recently read his discussion on 56 and 443 and found it lacking. He only briefly utilised/mentioned Quran concordance, and committed some logical fallacies whilst he was at it.
That does not mean he is wrong however, it simply means based on what he said, it is far from proven.
His work is still on my reading list however.
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Dear All,
Any body read the above books in which Dr Qamaruzzaman rejects Salat and Hadith as being against the Qur'an. You can download English PDF Versions of all three books at www.aastana.com.
Mubashir
Salam.
In my understanding, someone who rejects Salat and Fasting as being against Quran have lost their way, and don't even deserve to be read. That's what is good about the Criterion that we have.
Other similar self-styled deviant cases that called their whims Islam include at least Dr. Shabbir, and, Pervez (who is listed on this website for some strange reasons). -
peace,
In my understanding, someone who rejects Salat and Fasting as being against Quran have lost their way, and don't even deserve to be read. That's what is good about the Criterion that we have.
Firstly, no-one who follows Quran can reject "salat", so the way in which you phrased this part is incorrect. Perhaps you meant to say "prayer".
Secondly, "sawm" does not mean "fast" if you are using the conventional English definitionfast
verb (used without object)
1.
to abstain from all food.
2.
to eat only sparingly or of certain kinds of food, especially as a religious observance.
verb (used with object)
3.
to cause to abstain entirely from or limit food; put on a fast to fast a patient for a day before surgery.
noun
4.
an abstinence from food, or a limiting of one's food, especially when voluntary and as a religious observance; fasting.
5.
a day or period of fasting.It means "abstinence", this is fairly clear from Quran. From aastana, the dispute seems to be abstaining from what.
Other similar self-styled deviant cases that called their whims Islam include at least Dr. Shabbir, and, Pervez (who is listed on this website for some strange reasons).
No-one is perfect, but the above two names you mention have made some solid points on some issues.
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Salaam hope4,
Selam
I have recently read Haqeeqat Saum and find the arguments against saum not meaning fasting very plausible. Is there any other articles out there which argues against fasting?
Peace be apon you all.
Reality of the Fasting Month of Ramadan
Please give us your thoughts on it. )
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Salaam hope4,
Reality of the Fasting Month of Ramadan
Please give us your thoughts on it. )
Selam
Thank you. It mentions that Saum is some sort of training program. My thoughts on this is that I find this idea more plausable than fasting.
I asked someone once why do we fast? His reply was we fast to see how people without food feel so that in return we can be more giving. However, does it make us more giving? Do we just give in the Ramadan? Shoudl we be thinking of the poor all year round?
When I read AQ I try and see or understand what the end product of Saum can be.
2183 Fast so you may be righteous
2184 Fasting is better for you
2187 during the night of fasting you can approach your women sexually. (I am so confused with this verse! Is fasting only for men? Also, "and do not approach them while you are devoted in
the temples". If you was in a temple would anyone approach their women sexually if thats what it means?)2196
.... If you are secure,
then whoever goes to visit and continues until the Pilgrimage, then
he shall provide what is affordable of donation; but for he who
cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the
Pilgrimage and seven when he returns;..... (So, if you have no money to give you must fast? If someone could explain I am all ears)492.... fasting of two months sequentially as a repentance from God. (Fasting for killing someone? Seems like a very easy get away?)
I haven't gone through all of the occurances but trying to make sense of it all at the moment requires more reading and research. I sometimes get fustrated I could not spend more time in trying to do the required research, but may Allah guide us in the right direction and help us with our endeavors for the truth.
Peace
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Salaam,
You are welcome hope4.
I first started rethinking the fasting issue after I had read This Article by Aidid Safar about two years ago.
The answer that person gave you as to WHY we fast is sorely lacking.
First of all fasting from sun up 'til sun down for 29 or 30 days does not compare to permanent hunger 365 days. And some of those days many people have to go days or even weeks without eating. The so-called Muslims get to eat at sundown, so no comparison.
Second of all, if I have to fast in order to develop compassion for the poor and hungry, what does that say about me and the type of person that I really am?
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why does Allah always when speaking about SAWM , always says KOULOU WA ACHRONOU (uduzlly trznslztes Eay and drink ? and never said STOP EATING AND DRINKING ?
wgar does it have to do with talking, as MARYAM said , I devoted to Alrahman SAWMAN , so i won't talk to any human for days
why miriam spoke about not speaking and didn't say i won't be eating for days .?
Why did Zakariah do SAWM so he spoke with signs ? and not about eating and fasting ?
why allah insists on eating and drinking is SAWM ? -
why does Allah always when speaking about SAWM , always says KOULOU WA ACHRONOU (uduzlly trznslztes Eay and drink ? and never said STOP EATING AND DRINKING ?
wgar does it have to do with talking, as MARYAM said , I devoted to Alrahman SAWMAN , so i won't talk to any human for days
why miriam spoke about not speaking and didn't say i won't be eating for days .?
Why did Zakariah do SAWM so he spoke with signs ? and not about eating and fasting ?
why allah insists on eating and drinking is SAWM ?THanks loxbox you've highlighted an important point (that so far I've missed)..
At the back of my head; I always suspected that the word SAWM are related towards 'restraint'.. it serves as a mean to practice control over yourselves.
As a human grow older, he should possess more capabilities for restraining / controlling him/herself.
This is something which even psychologist would agree.. take a look at how baby grew... in the beginning he can't control himself, he always cried when he feels any negative emotions. He then start to learn on how to control it as he grew...
A sawm should be a mean to practice this 'self restraining' capabilities.. the better we are on controlling ourselves the better we are as a person... that's why in the Quran; Sawm is a mean to increase the 'taqwa'..
The next question will be what is "Taqwa"?
The word Taqwa (arabic) or Tiqwah (Hebrew) is from the semitic wa? ka? ya (meaning shield) and its verb is from the word ?Ittaki?. Ittaki means to be careful or to be protected or to be cautious. The broader meaning of Taqwa is to develop one?s behavior so as to be cautiously aware and in control (to do good deed and avoid bad deed).
The opposite of 'in control' will be 'run amok' or 'wild' or 'behaving like a loose cannon'... (just like those who are involved in the London's riot few days ago)The more 'restraining' capability we have on ourselves the better person we will be...
And SAWM should be a mean to improve and increase our capability of 'self-control'...
SAWM is not a 'ritual' activity 'to please God'.. and the technicalities of the 'SAWM' could differ among people and/or cultures. Mary and Zachary does their SAWM by 'not talking' as it was told in the Quran.. However it doesn't mean that 'not eating and drinking' is not one of the many form of a SAWM.And definitely for sure.. even 'women in her period' should be capable and 'allowed' to do her SAWM..
PS I find it mind boggling for the sunnis to forbids women in her period to do SHALAT, SAWM. As it turns out it was one of the 'good old traditions from their pagan period.
http//www.pantheon.org/articles/m/manaf.html
Manaf One of the ancient heathen gods of Mecca, before Islam. The statue of this god was caressed by women, but when they had their periods they were not allowed to near it.Salam / Peace
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peace all,
For anyone who has read or is considering reading Dr Zaman's Haqeeqat Salat, see
Critique of Dr Zaman (aastana) ?The Truth about ?Wudhu? (Ablution)? p67-87
Download PDF file
Summary review of 19 pages resulted in -
30 errors/problems identified
- (5 of which critical errors)
3 logical fallacies noted
16 instances requiring evidence/referencing
Total = 49 issues to be resolved/clarified
- (5 of which critical errors)
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Summary review of 19 pages resulted in -
30 errors/problems identified
- (5 of which critical errors)
3 logical fallacies noted
16 instances requiring evidence/referencing
Total = 49 issues to be resolved/clarified
Please explain what Dr Qamar Mean by "?Kindly note that routine talk is not allowed during Namaaz.?" at page 69
you said- -" but conveniently neglects to mention that immediately after the singular ?al ghaiti? reference it
becomes plural, e.g. ?or you (plural) have touched the women? or ?and you (plural) could not find
water?."Did dr Qamar say plural is NOT used AFTER al ghaiti? where did he say that?
Please explain what this verse means when it say" or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth"
Do you rub your face with sand when you along with others have touched THE WOMEN AL NISA, or if ONE of you cometh from offices of nature? Or do you mean to say rubbing the face with sand is only a reference to those who touch THE women and not those who ,,no no ,I mean NOT "THE ONE OF YOU" who came from office of nature? So it means rubbing the face with sand is only mandatory for those who touch the women and not "If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature" ?
What is the command to "THE ONE OF YOU who come back from offices of nature"?
why are all these things mentioned at all, if sand is ordered to use only if you (plural) have touched the women? THE WOMEN? who are they? And heyy, what about the private parts? you mean to say The Quran, Allah Paak Almighty,order people to walk around or participate Salaat with stinkydirty private parts, as long as they have a ...errrm ,,a sandy face?
who use sand to clean his face anyway? you?
"P71 ? claims ?would certainly smear the already clean faces? ? I never knew travellers, or those
who had sex or are sick etc have clean faces by default! Erroneous.
Claims ?sa?eedan? can mean ?height? ? NQE, NCADR. Although I do know it can mean ?elevated
land?, but that is not the same as it meaning ?height? only"Please explain this, do you mean one have to clean the face with elevated land? Which is? If we use both the definitions, does it make sense? Rub your face with elevated land, or rub your face with high sand,,aeehhh, sand which is high ? drunk sand ? Please explain
last part of the Aya- For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.
so what's the "sin" here? Not to clean oneself after toilet ? Or to enter Salaat without cleaning oneself after the toilet? Sorry, it is not about al ghaiti, it is about touching THE women. so what's the sin, not to rub ones face and hands with elevate land/ high sand, or to enter Salaat without a sandy face? Allah's mercy and forgiveness is mentioned after issuing orders to rub ones face with sand (and you now why)...does it make sense at all?
- (5 of which critical errors)
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B.ob,
I assume you are addressing me with your post.
Firstly, why are you asking me what Dr Zaman meant by XYZ? Go ask him. He has a website and blog for asking questions.
Secondly, I recommend re-reading what I wrote.
And lastly, with regards your other questions about the verses, I recommend reading past discussion on the forum, and utilising the tools at www.StudyQuran.org for example.
Once you have done that AND still have some questions about the verses, then feel free to ask them on the forum AND also write your findings/research thus far on each of the questions you ask. That will be helpful.
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B.ob,
I assume you are addressing me with your post.
Firstly, why are you asking me what Dr Zaman meant by XYZ? Go ask him. He has a website and blog for asking questions.
Secondly, I recommend re-reading what I wrote.
And lastly, with regards your other questions about the verses, I recommend reading past discussion on the forum, and utilising the tools at www.StudyQuran.org for example.
Once you have done that AND still have some questions about the verses, then feel free to ask them on the forum AND also write your findings/research thus far on each of the questions you ask. That will be helpful.
So you dont even understand what he is saying to begin with, but you have written an ,,what do you call it, analysis ?
How do we know you understood anything else? you don't even understand a simple line, but you have given a socalled throughout analysis of,,WHAT,,something you didn't understand?
Also ref to Dr Qamars statement that plural is NOT used after al ghaiti!
No I'm asking you , plz answer the questions, you are criticising Haqiqate Salaat WITHOUT understanding what the author is saying by a simple line to begin with, then you have to explain sand face one of you , toilet, the women etc. Come on don't be shy, all you have to do is to rub your face with sand and answer the questions. If your the one of them who went to toilet ofcrz - Explain it to us, otherwise this sandy thing will remain dusty. I'm also interested to know if you and all your friends who think like you, clean your face with sand, elevated land or high sand or whatever you guys call it.
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salamun alykum, Everyone.
I have read this debate from page one to nineteen and am impressed with some of you people responses and insights. personally i feet Dr QZ has very valid argument and i agree with his results. i have read Adid Safar's article too and i think some of these scholars are on the right track in bringing truth into the light. Thank you all for your informative insights. god bless.
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salaam dakiya,
Usually "scholars" do not make logical errors and fail to reference their sources. I know from my own experience when I have read Islamic books by Western "scholars" for example, it is rare for them to poorly reference their statements.
QZ certainly does not write like a scholar. Of course, it could just be an extremely bad translation from Urdu to English.
