Will Mother Teresa go to Hell? 5:72
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Peace
The relevant verse is
572
YUSUFALI They do blaspheme who say "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.I am of the opinion that good works outweigh the mere utterances of shirk. This verse contradicts that. I'm sure Mother Teresa said 'Jesus is God' many times in her life. I feel that a Good God would not send a good and morally upstanding person to hell for saying that.
Salaam
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Peace
Muhammad Asad
573 Indeed, the truth deny they who say, "Behold, God is the third of a trinity" - seeing that there is no deity whatever save the One God. And unless they desist from this their assertion, grievous suffering is bound to befall such of them as are bent on denying the truth.Edip-Layth
573 Ingrates indeed are those who have said, "God is the third of trinity!" There is no god but One god. If they do not cease from what they are saying, then those who reject from among them will be afflicted with a painful retributionMuhammad Ahmed & Samira
73.Those who said "That God (is) third (of) three." had disbelieved, and (there is) no God except from one God, and if they do not end/stop from what they say, a painful torture will touch (E) those who disbelieved from them.http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=5&verse=73
The relevant portion in the corpus would "and if not they desist from what they are saying."
I put the parts of the verse that I felt were relevant in bold. My question then would be is the Quran asking the disbeliever to desist from saying what they are saying or is the Quran asking the disbeliever to desist from what they say as in believing that Jesus is God? The difference is small but important. If the Quran is asking the disbeliever to desist from saying Jesus is God, then the source of disbelief is the disbelievers words and thus, all modern Christians are going to hell (no matter how good they are) according to the Quran, since they often say 'Jesus is God.' If the Quran is asking the disbeliever to desist "from what they say" as in put an end to the disbelief of heart and actions they say they have (not desist from saying but desist from what they are saying), then simply saying "Jesus is God" is not the source of disbelief and good Christians are saved (Hooray). The second interpretation fits in well with 262 and all the other verses in the Quran, which preach pluralism. IMO, the second interpretation is viable if the corpus Quran translation is a perfect Arabic to English translation. I don't know the nuances of Arabic though so this might not be the case and the first interpretation could be inevitable.
Salaam
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peace yget,
The relevant portion in the corpus would "and if not they desist from what they are saying."
Perhaps we should consider another portion to see if it is also relevant
"...surely will afflict those who kafaru among/from them a punishment painful..."
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Peace
The second interpretation I offered seems viable and would close the contradictions (imo), which I thought there were between pluralist verses and 572-573. Here would be the clearest (not necessarily best) translation in my opinion (bolded part for extra emphasis).
Muhammad Sarwar Those who say that God is the third of the Three, have, in fact, turned to disbelief. There is no Lord but God, the only One Lord. If they will not give-up such belief, the disbelievers among them will suffer a painful torment.
Thus, if we work from the framework that disbelief is comprehensive in mind and action, which I believe is supported in the Quran, than mere utterance is not disbelief. The said people would have to stop from what they are saying (i.e. doing bad stuff). The emphasis would be not on the utterance but the disbelief.
peace yget,
Perhaps we should consider another portion to see if it is also relevant
"...surely will afflict those who kafaru among/from them a punishment painful..."
This would be a nice supplement to the interpretation I offered above since "among/from them" indicates reference to a particular group of people. Thus, by calling them "those who say Jesus is God," the Quran could just be applying a convenient moniker for maybe a tribe or group of people that were particularly bad at the time.
Peace
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Peace
The relevant verse is
572
YUSUFALI They do blaspheme who say "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.I am of the opinion that good works outweigh the mere utterances of shirk. This verse contradicts that. I'm sure Mother Teresa said 'Jesus is God' many times in her life. I feel that a Good God would not send a good and morally upstanding person to hell for saying that.
Salaam
Peace,
Respect.We should be aware of this as well if you believe that a tree is the god, then all the good deeds you do won't matter because you believe that a tree is a god and you don't research and explore, you blindly follow your thoughts which suggest that a tree is a god who gave you this goodness.
meanwhile, The Real God, True Creator, might remove the tree to show you a proof. If you insist on your misguided idea, then I guess your work - good work - is nullified. And I think it is nullified because you based it on the weak, poor grounds, on a lie.You can't build on lies, on illusions.
4116 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.
4117 They are calling on females besides Him. Indeed, they are only calling on a persistent devil.
4118 God has cursed him; and he said I will take from Your servants a sizeable portion.
4119 And I will misguide them and make them desire, and I will command them, so that they will mark the ears of the livestock, and I will command them so they will make changes to the creation of God. Whoever takes the devil as a supporter other than God, then he has indeed lost a great loss.
4120 He promises them and makes them desire, but what the devil promises them is only vanity.
4121 For these, their abode shall be Hell, and they will find no escape from it.
4122 As for those who believe and do good works, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. The promise of God is truth; and who is more truthful in saying than God?
4123 It will not be by what you desire, nor by what the people of the Book desire. Whoever works evil, he will be paid for it; and he will not find for himself besides God any supporter or victor.
4124 And whoever works good, whether male or female, and is a believer, then these will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.
4125 And who is better in the system than the one who submits himself to God, and he is a good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And God took Abraham as a friend.
4126 And to God is what is in the heavens and the earth; and God is Encompassing all things.572 Rejecters indeed are those who have said God is the Messiah, son of Mary. And the Messiah said O Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever sets up partners with God, then God will restrict the Paradise from him, and his destiny will be the Fire; and the wicked will have no supporters.
573 Rejecters indeed are those who have said God is a trinity! There is no god except One god. If they do not cease from what they are saying, then those who reject from among them will be afflicted with a painful retribution.
574 Would they not repent to God and seek His forgiveness? God is Forgiving, Merciful.
575 The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger; like whom messengers have passed away; and his mother was trustworthy, they used to eat the food. See how We clarify the signs for them, then see how they deviate.12106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.
3938 And if you ask them Who has created the heavens and the earth? They will say God. Say Do you see what you call on besides God, If God wanted any harm for me, can they alleviate His harm? Or if He wanted a mercy for me, can they hold back his mercy? Say God is sufficient for me; in Him those who trust shall place their trust.
Peace.
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This is one of the puzzling outlooks in life I have yet to come to a conclusion on. Does The God nullify all good works for mere utterance/worship of material/immaterial "things" other than The God.
What about those that deny being created but still do good...are these not serving the many attributes of The God without knowing ???
Would love others input on this.
PEACE
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Peace Prince,
I don't think so because there are so many pluralist verses in the Quran that emphasis diversity and good works like...
548
For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.Also...
4914
PICKTHAL The wandering Arabs say We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad) Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.This verse is interesting as mere utterance does not make the 'wandering Arabs' Believers. Logically then, mere utterance in the contrary position should not make people disbelievers. In facts, the 'wandering Arabs' are given solace in the fact that they can still obey the laws of 'Allah and his messenger' and be Muslims. These good deeds will not be withheld from reward.
Salaam
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I really did not understand anything from your splitting the hair. Those who associate partners to God, will not attain eternal salvation. That's clear in the Quran. If there is God and He had decided to make such a an issue the necessary component of the test, then neither of us can change the fact.
Through my thirty year long debate, I am always shocked when I see people trying to find all sorts of excuses and false arguments to claim that God alone is not sufficient, that God or they need partners (in judgment here and hereafter). This alone proves the existence of Satan and why the Quran emphasizes monotheism so much.
Besides, polytheism turns humans to slaves of others and throughout of history the biggest tragedies are the consequences of polytheism.
As for Mother Teresa... She loses the divine test, since cared not about its most important question. She loses again, since she might help some people, but by promoting a false religion that has been the cause of many wars, oppression, exploitation, sexual and mental abuses, superstitions, and false ideas, she has wiped off the benefit of her help.
PS If you wish, please read the Naked Pope in a Glass House? I could not find the final article, since it was deleted from 19.org by accident, but you can find its draft version at
http//19.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6422&p=42902
Peace,
Edip -
Edip Yuksel
As for Mother Teresa... She loses the divine test, since cared not about its most important question. She loses again, since she might help some people, but by promoting a false religion that has been the cause of many wars, oppression, exploitation, sexual and mental abuses, superstitions, and false ideas, she has wiped off the benefit of her help.
But the question still is unanswered, will she go to hell?
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Edip Yuksel
But the question still is unanswered, will she go to hell?Peace
In Bro Edip's words, "she loses the divine test." He thinks she is going to hell assuming all the shirk stuff. I disagree.
Salaam
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eat that
In Bro Edip's words, "she loses the divine test." He thinks she is going to hell assuming all the shirk stuff. I disagree.
Salaam
That is what you think! May be that is not what he thinks, why is he short of concluding it. Let him say that SHE will go to hell. I don't think so if some ones fail in any test he will go to hell.
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eat that
That is what you think! May be that is not what he thinks, why is he short of concluding it. Let him say that SHE will go to hell. I don't think so if some ones fail in any test he will go to hell.Fair enough...
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We are not in a position to judge.
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Peace All,
569
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.I say no.
A lifetime spent/sacrificed in the helping of others cannot possibly become null and void for having been born into the wrong religion.
She actually spent a good part of her later years questioning her own belief in God, as she had seen so much pain.Peace,
Tay -
I have to agree with Tay.........the Quran tells us god is the most merciful, Mother Teresa continued her work with her focus on god I would not say she assigned Jesus to the level of God in malice or to tell others if they didnt see Jesus as she did they were disbelievers........she did what she did and I do not think that when she meets the almighty in person he will say "sorry MT looks like you did all this for nothing as your going dowwwwnnnnnnn" personally the Quran give me the impression of God being very forgiving and merciful and not a being that would be duped by one person who races towards good deeds with no true intention just so they get to heaven and a person who gave her life to good deeds, humanity and hope because she had faith.
282 And those who believe and do good work, they are the people of paradise, in it they will abide eternally
569
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve. -
This is one of the puzzling outlooks in life I have yet to come to a conclusion on. Does The God nullify all good works for mere utterance/worship of material/immaterial "things" other than The God.
What about those that deny being created but still do good...are these not serving the many attributes of The God without knowing ???
Would love others input on this.
PEACE
I wonder about this too. I am yet to find answer for it.
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Nothing we do that pleases God, except strife for the universal Goodness which changes with time place and environment. The Guidance should come from God that helps us identify whats right and wrong. Our prayers, our rituals and our other actions should focus at that, and the only thing that stops us in doing that is idol worshiping, crossing the limits of reasoning and limiting ourselves to be unworthy of guidance.
