Shahr -- Does It Have Anything To Do With "MOON"?
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Peace Ayman,
Above in 2185 there is no "an".
Please elaborate, let's study this carefully and apply consistency for best meaning of shahida ?
2185 so whoever shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
from you the shahr318 shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
Allah annahu, no god only Him and the malikatu and owners (of) knowledge standing in justice, no god only Him the All-Mighty the All-Wise4120 shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
against them their hearing and their sight and their skins to what they used to do4386 only who shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
to the truth (bil-aqi) and they knowAlso consider usage of the phrase in verses ...
1226 washahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
shhidun from her family(461010) washahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
shhidun from ban is'rla -
Peace Noon,
Please elaborate, let's study this carefully and apply consistency for best meaning of shahida ?
2185 so whoever shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
from you the shahrThis is direct witnessing like for example in 242
...and a group of the faithful should witness their punishment.
If "hearing about the punishment from some authority" was enough and this didn't mean DIRECT witnessing then this part of 242 would become meaningless.
318 shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
Allah annahu, no god only Him and the malikatu and owners (of) knowledge standing in justice, no god only Him the All-Mighty the All-WiseSee the proposition "anna" (that).
4120 shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
against them their hearing and their sight and their skins to what they used to doHere see the proposition "3alayhim" (against them).
4386 only who shahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
to the truth (bil-aqi) and they knowThe proposition "bi" is there, which is better translated as "with", ie "with the truth".
Also consider usage of the phrase in verses ...
1226 washahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
shhidun from her familyHere the witnessing is not of the crime but of a method that would determine the guilt or no guilt. Therefore if you read the rest of the passage you will see the conditional proposition "in" is used with "shahida". No direct witnessing like we had in 2185 and 242.
(461010) washahida V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
shhidun from ban is'rlaRead the rest of the passage for the proposition "3la"/(on) where it says "3ala mithlih" (on something similar to it).
Again, in all those examples there is no direct witnessing and the action of "shahida" is followed by propositions that separate the action from what is being witnessed. This is unlike 2185 and 242 where there are no such propositions and it is clearly direct witnessing.
Peace,
Ayman
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salam
lets get back to the original discussion.
i have not made any conclusion on the meaning of 'shahr ramadhan' but for the moment the train of thought is approaching 'a hot or compelling announcement or disclosure'.
to me this happens when God reveals His message to anyone of us, for example after we ask Him for some guidance, i.e., for the correct meaning of certain terms or phrases or even ideas we gather from the qur-an. we seek the truth according to Him or the truth that He wants us to grasp, and not the truth according to our whims and fancies. this is to gather further details or even to ascertain whether we have understood them correctly or otherwise. when we have noticed the start of the reception of the messages (as mentioned 'hatta yatabayyana lakumu alkhaytu al-abyadu mina alkhayti al-aswadi mina alfajri', the onus is for us to perform the 'siyam', i.e. to continue having 'a sort of dialogue or conversation' with God (to get further clarifications), thereby not speaking to human beings (as performed by maryam). food is alright, but when you are in reverence in solitude, drinks & food is almost irrelevant (as one will usually forget about them since one would not feel any thirst nor hunger). the count of days is usually ten, but the count varies since God determines whether we have had enough of explanations or not. so it was mentioned that it would be alright (not wrong) even if one was to perform the 'siyam' in two days (2203).
sex during this period is prohibited since the wife will pose as a 'shield' (@ libasun) between the husband and God, and vice-versa. so, during 'siyam', one has to concentrate solely on God, which requires a reverence in solitude (i.e. keeping to oneself while minimizing contact with people).
'shahid' in 2185 is then most probably suggesting 'personally experienced'. if one does not have the experience (@ does not receive any message from God) then 'siyam' is irrelevant him. in short 'siyam' is only for one who receives 'hot or compelling announcement or disclosure' from God. after one has received the details of the message during the reverence in solitude, then one is required to carry out the persuasion (@ hajj) on people (Alhajju ashhurun maAAloomatun = ?alhajj?/?the persuasion? is the propagation of new information or discoveries).
but how does one know when to perform the 'hajj'? one familiar with the messages will get and know the signs or signals. otherwise the place is noisy with conjectures. if one is unable to perform the 'hajj', then there is also ten days of 'siyam' required (3+7), i.e. for 'man lam yakun ahluhu hadiree almasjidi alharami' or 'anyone incompetent in lecturing on the forbidden submission/reverence'.
however, four announcements or disclosures from God are prohibited from being propagated or persuaded on people. one such thing is to start a lecture on the forbidden reverence (@ masjidi alharam), unless they attack your notions or ideas (yuqatiloonakum) on the correct reverence. (i took the liberty to mention only the above for relevance, while the other three are mentioned elsewhere in the qur-an.)
for further study read 002183-203.
as always this is merely my current understanding on the issues raised in the original post of this thread. whatever understanding you have is right (i.e. befitting your attitude & strive in the path of God).
may God Guide us on the correct way.
peace
mohammed noh -
Peace Ayman,
This is direct witnessing like for example in 242
...and a group of the faithful should witness their punishment.
If "hearing about the punishment from some authority" was enough and this didn't mean DIRECT witnessing then this part of 242 would become meaningless.
... and a group of the faithful should view directly their punishment?
What's the point of that?
Makes more sense if a group of the faithful avows/acknowledges their punishment (i.e. avows their guilt; perhaps at a public trial).
a?vow - to acknowledge openly or directly if you like.
Likewise, which makes more sense and takes into account including the blind?
2185 ... so who views/sees (directly) from you the shahr so he should fast it.
2185 ... so who avows/acknowledges from you the shahr so he should fast it.
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Peace Noon,
... and a group of the faithful should view directly their punishment?
What's the point of that?The point is that in the same way that they had public sex, their negative punishment should be public. Public punishment and associated humiliation definitely makes a point for exhibitionists.
Makes more sense if a group of the faithful avows/acknowledges their punishment (i.e. avows their guilt; perhaps at a public trial).
a?vow - to acknowledge openly or directly if you like.The question of guilt is already settled before applying the punishment. The Arabic word "3athab" doesn't mean "guilt".
Likewise, which makes more sense and takes into account including the blind?
2185 ... so who views/sees (directly) from you the shahr so he should fast it.
2185 ... so who avows/acknowledges from you the shahr so he should fast it.As I said, as a result of the verb witness and the object not being separated in 242 and 2185 this would be direct witnessing. The command to witness in 242 would become meaningless otherwise. I would suggest that you kindly check the meaning of "3athab" in a dictionary or by looking at its occurrences in the great reading before changing its meaning from "punishment" to "guilt".
024.002
YUSUFALI The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
PICKTHAL The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
SHAKIR (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.As for the blind, I hope that you can see the logical difference between the following two statements
(1) so who views/sees (directly) from you the shahr so he should fast it
(2) so who doesn't view/see (directly) from you the shahr so he should not fast it(1) doesn't imply (2) and doesn't mean that the blind cannot voluntarily fast.
Peace,
Ayman
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As I said, as a result of the verb witness and the object not being separated in 242 and 2185 this would be direct witnessing. The command to witness in 242 would become meaningless otherwise. I would suggest that you kindly check the meaning of "3athab" in a dictionary or by looking at its occurrences in the great reading before changing its meaning from "punishment" to "guilt".
024.002
YUSUFALI The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
PICKTHAL The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
SHAKIR (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.As for the blind, I hope that you can see the logical difference between the following two statements
(1) so who views/sees (directly) from you the shahr so he should fast it
(2) so who doesn't view/see (directly) from you the shahr so he should not fast it(1) doesn't imply (2) and doesn't mean that the blind cannot voluntarily fast.
Peace,
Ayman
The difference between the verbs of 2402 and 2185 was taken care of by the above quoted translators, towards which I had drwn attention, "And please also elaborate where it is from and/or is from ", and which supports Noon's point.
002.185
YUSUFALI Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.
PICKTHAL The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month, and whosoever of you is sick or on a journey, (let him fast the same) number of other days. Allah desireth for you ease; He desireth not hardship for you; and (He desireth) that ye should complete the period, and that ye should magnify Allah for having guided you, and that peradventure ye may be thankful.
SHAKIR The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks -
Peace Ayman,
The question of guilt is already settled before applying the punishment. The Arabic word "3athab" doesn't mean "guilt".
As I said, as a result of the verb witness and the object not being separated in 242 and 2185 this would be direct witnessing. The command to witness in 242 would become meaningless otherwise. I would suggest that you kindly check the meaning of "3athab" in a dictionary or by looking at its occurrences in the great reading before changing its meaning from "punishment" to "guilt".
Applying best meaning for walyashhad is not changing the meaning of adhbahum
242 the fornicators flog each one of them hundred lashes and not withhold you pity for them concerning religion of God if you believe in God and the day the last ?and let acknowledge/walyashhad their punishment/adhbahum a group from the believers.
To acknowledge/confirm their punishment is same as to confirm their guilt or innocence which punishment cannot be carried out until fault is first witnessed or proven.
Example given ?
1226 washahida shhidun from her family
"If his shirt torn from the front then she has spoken the truth and he of the liars.?As for the blind, I hope that you can see the logical difference between the following two statements
(1) so who views/sees (directly) from you the shahr so he should fast it
(2) so who doesn't view/see (directly) from you the shahr so he should not fast it(1) doesn't imply (2) and doesn't mean that the blind cannot voluntarily fast.
Can the blind "witness" their punishment/adhbahum (242 & 1226)?
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No, "falyaSumhu" refers to "Al-Shahr".
It can't be correct. If we look at the start of 2185 we'll see شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِي أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَىٰ وَالْفُرْقَانِ, meaning shehru rameDaane is that in which was unzile el-qur'aan, guidance for the people and explanations from the guidance and el-furqaan. Here, we can ask ourselves what's the topic? It can be shehru rameDaane, but it also can be el-qur'aan, since it's the subject of a passive verb unzile, it depends on what follows.
Then we have فَمَن شَهِدَ مِنكُمُ الشَّهْرَ so, who of you witnessed eš-šehr. Here we can be sure that shehru rameDaane is not the subject of this aayet, because it would be told something like so, who of you witnessed IT (hu). Btw, nobody can witness any of Moon phases, we can see them, but cannot witnessed them, because we can witness something happening not the object (we cannot witness a blue house). Eš-šehr is used because we know which šehr is it about (šehru rameDaane).
Then we have فَلْيَصُمْهُ. This is not an imperative, it's a jussive mood which has a function to explain or to add something about things told and it's timeless, can be used for any time. Pronoun -hu here refers to the Qur'an, since the Qur'an is the topic and the reason for Siyaam ("fasting". Note that "to fast" comes from the meaning "attached to something". Fe-l-yeSum-hu means that one who witnessed eš-šehr surely fasted it, meaning the Qur'an. Morever, šehru rameDaane is "revelation of lasting remedy", and who was present (witnessed) when something revealed to Resulullah he surely was attached to the Qur'an. That person received it not only as a guidance, but also he got explanations from the Guidance and el-furqaan (as said), thus by witnessing this event he got all he needs from the Qur'an. This event is one of many, for a certain portion of the Qur'an. If one is always present at all these events he has no need to fast, but if he was absent due to travelling or being sick, then he'll fast some other day. What he should do? He should try to get (that portion of) the Qur'an as guidance and explanations of the guidance and el-furqaan, by fasting, meaning focusing/attaching on the Qur'an only.
In relation with the main topic here... We have 3 words from the root šeen-ha-ra šehr, šuhoor and ešhur. Due to the root meaning, these words can be connected with Moon and its phases, since they can describe revealing of something, for example the Moon during its phases. I understand that šehr can mean one of phases, and šuhoor is its plural. Ešhur is not so-called "broken plural", but can be a collective noun for all the phases, thus can mean "lunar month", as well as "lunar months", since this word doesn't have number (as, for example, enfus can be used as one or many). But "Moon phase(s)/month(s)" is just one of the meanings of these words in the Qur'an. They talk about revealing, making public, famous, etc.