Did Adam's children commit incest?
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Peace everyone!
Were Adam and Eve the first human beings?
Are we reuslt of incest between their first generation of offsprings?
Was the law different for them than it is for us?
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There really isn't anything wrong with incest. If you have good genes and your family member does then the chance of a deformed child is probably the same as between non family members. God in the bible forbade incest after several generations this has more to do with the corruption of sin now affecting our genes and increasing the chance of sick offspring.
The real problem with incest is of course that once you have poor genes in your family interbreeding massively increases the chance of those genes being expressed.
Here is a good discussion on the topic from my favourite Christian site
http//creation.com/cains-wife-explanation-gross-and-disgustingIncest is immoral now.
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Just want to comment one thing, Theres no law or common law from Allah, All laws are invented by Man and God just judge if you want Peace or disharmony within the system.
Quran has guidance whether what Prophet and his people followed were for peace,Regarding the topic, May be for the people at that time its a peacefull practice. Anything is right if it brings peace and Goodness.
Peace.
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Wakas tnx for the tip bro, really helpfull.
wootah & amin tnx for the reply and link bros, i understand the view of mainstream christianity and mainstream islam regarding this issue, i wanted to know if quran alone followers through their analysis of the verses of quran have come to a different conclusion.
Peace -
Just want to comment one thing, Theres no law or common law from Allah, All laws are invented by Man and God just judge if you want Peace or disharmony within the system.
Quran has guidance whether what Prophet and his people followed were for peace,Regarding the topic, May be for the people at that time its a peacefull practice. Anything is right if it brings peace and Goodness.
Peace.
That's unique. There are millions that want peace that are not Muslims. Right?
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So what?
If you just think about why you think incest is immoral you will find the answer. But, again, you should be able to think like a philosopher. Ask several whys after each other and question evry assumption you make.
Peace
Edip -
^ I don't quite get what point you're making but incest is widely deemed "immoral" because living together with someone in a family relationship for a long time triggers some kind of pre-programmed instinct that says "keep away". If two siblings or a parent & child grow up separately and then meet each other in their adult years, then there is a chance that they will be highly sexually attracted to each other. Freaky!
I'm guessing that such an instinct evolved out of the need to keep some variety in the gene pool. The story of Adam and Eve seems pretty cryptic to me, so I couldn't claim that we are the product of incest or not quranically.
Interestingly in 238 it is said "Get down, all" so perhaps that lends credence to nerspi's thinking, though Adam is directly addressed as a single human sometimes. 41 states all humanity came from two beings, the wording is very interesting & precise in such a way that you couldn't say it was an inaccurate description of observed reality.
In reality itself, all humans can be traced genetically to a single female 200,000 years ago and also to a single male some time later. How that correlates with the story of Adam and his wife, I could not honestly tell you.
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Peace everyone!
I agree with your point Edip, i am of the oppenion that standard of morality is set by our Creator, such as making killing of an innocent human being immoral yet killing of an animal for the right reasons moral, both are taking innocent life, so i am clear on that point. I don't see the issue of incest from a secular or scientific point of view, since the secular point of view is based on science and science is still in its early stages, its a mixture of established facts and theories, which in my view makes it as authentic as mainstream islam or christianity or other major religions which are a mixture of fact and conjecture and guessing and genetics is one those fields of science which is not purely fact based, that is why i said i only want to know specifically the analysis of the wording in quran, such as the verses OPF pointed out and the link Wakas provided which suggests that adam has been referred as a singular person in some verses and plural at others, it is exactly this issue which i want to clarify further for myself.
Thank you all for your contributions, Inshala our Creator will reward you for it. Peace -
One must note that 41 does not necessarily refer to Adam and his wife - if it did, it would have stated clearly so; the attention to subtlety in the quran is impeccable.
Regardless, the angels ask if God will place one who sheds blood on Earth as a successor. For it to say that, there must have already been some dominant species on Earth which perhaps was not up to scratch. That which sets apart "Adam" from others, even the angels, is his ability to name things. Adam has a command over language previously unseen in the quranic universe.
Thus, "Adam" is the first man with linguistic ability, this is what differentiates a human from a cow, donkey, sheep, monkey even. Note that his wife is NOT asked to recite the names! So clearly the incestual theory goes out the window right here - if one posits that Eve also knows the names then one is making an extra-quranic assumption subject to all the fallacies that come with that territory.
With this fact alone, I do not believe it is reasonable to further push the agenda of "incestual creation". Most deserved praise to our creator.
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Peace everyone!
Dear bro/sis OPF, what i want to achieve through this question is the angle through which yourself and others see this issue and the evidence for that view, i see quranic verses as many dimentional, different minds may view different them through different angles based on the level of their knowledge and experience in life, a scientist may see the scientific angle of a verse whereas a farmer may see the practicle side and a philosopher the philosophical side etc; the wise man may have 99 parts of a 100 part jigsaw and the layman the 100th part, i consider the analysis of each contributor precious, so when and if God willing i gain enough knowledge of arabic language and analyse the verses myself, then i could see them from more than one angle.
Thank you for your contributions. Peace -
Peace everyone!
I agree with your point Edip, i am of the oppenion that standard of morality is set by our Creator, such as making killing of an innocent human being immoral yet killing of an animal for the right reasons moral, both are taking innocent life, so i am clear on that point. I don't see the issue of incest from a secular or scientific point of view, since the secular point of view is based on science and science is still in its early stages, its a mixture of established facts and theories, which in my view makes it as authentic as mainstream islam or christianity or other major religions which are a mixture of fact and conjecture and guessing and genetics is one those fields of science which is not purely fact based, that is why i said i only want to know specifically the analysis of the wording in quran, such as the verses OPF pointed out and the link Wakas provided which suggests that adam has been referred as a singular person in some verses and plural at others, it is exactly this issue which i want to clarify further for myself.
Thank you all for your contributions, Inshala our Creator will reward you for it. PeaceI am in hurry, so my response will be brief. Killing someone is morally wrong not because God says so, but because according to God's laws in nature and and his laws in our creation imposes on us such a restriction if we wish to stay together in towns and cities. One does not need to believe in God to consider killing or stealing without major justification as crimes or immoral acts.
Scientific explanations do not necessarily lead to a moral rule, but sometimes they do. Every harmful thing is not considered immoral. Furthermore, the health problems related to incest could easily be avoided by using contraception, sterilization, or genetic tests etc.
Peace,
Edip -
Peace everyone!
Were Adam and Eve the first human beings?
Are we reuslt of incest between their first generation of offsprings?
Was the law different for them than it is for us?
peacePeace,
Respect.Does it say that at that point Adam & Eve and the kids were the only people there and then?
We don't know if they started counting time and hwo they counted it.
Maybe we need to calculate how ling ago thatw as ....
Interesting topic though,God bless you.
Peace. -
I am in hurry, so my response will be brief. Killing someone is morally wrong not because God says so, but because according to God's laws in nature and and his laws in our creation imposes on us such a restriction if we wish to stay together in towns and cities. One does not need to believe in God to consider killing or stealing without major justification as crimes or immoral acts.
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Peace Edip,
That may be true in some cases but not all. Without the fear of retribution of hereafter, there are some who would commit the most horrible crimes provided no one is watching or where the victim has no means to avenge the trangression, such as war crimes that soldiers of one nation commit against the innocent civillians of another nation, because they know they can come back to their cities and town and live peacefully, and they may justify their action following the logic that if we are a consequense of mere chance of bigbang and evolution then their is no difference between slauthering a sheep or a man provided they can get away with it.Peace Alen,
That is the tradional undersding of it i think, and I hoped others could point out the flaws if any of that understanding.
I pray that the Merciful bless, protect, forgive and guide us all -
Peace Edip,
That may be true in some cases but not all. Without the fear of retribution of hereafter, there are some who would commit the most horrible crimes provided no one is watching or where the victim has no means to avenge the trangression, such as war crimes that soldiers of one nation commit against the innocent civillians of another nation, because they know they can come back to their cities and town and live peacefully, and they may justify their action following the logic that if we are a consequense of mere chance of bigbang and evolution then their is no difference between slauthering a sheep or a man provided they can get away with it.all highlights I made still point to knowing it is wrong. Even if they dont believe in anything after or any judgement day or any God, this is still known to be wrong they just dont think they will pay for it.
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Peace sis Ayesha,
Not necessarily sis, they understand that there could be a social consequence and if they can avoid that social consequence they may go ahead with it, because from where i see it if one becomes a fundmintalist atheist who fundemintally adheres to the logic of atheism he/she may reach the conclusion that there is no such thing as morality, morality being a creation of humans' imagination for the purposes of co-existence and for the rich and powerfull to control the masses. Although they certainly do have conscience placed within them by their Creator, however they may interpret that as either a preconcieved notion resulting from religious dominace of the world or an evolutionary mechanism to keep human species fit for survival.
peace -
Peace,
Were Adam and Eve the first human beings?
Sort of. Eve is not mentioned in the qur'an. Adam is the name given to represent the first generation of humans - evolved recipients of God's gift of self-awareness and language. The parable of the Adam story is the common thread of all mankind the battle between ego and spirituality.
Peace,
Tay
