Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. What is Al-Kitab?

What is Al-Kitab?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
18 Posts 3 Posters 33 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • B Offline
    B Offline
    bkanwar2
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Dear all, I have been working to decoded Sura Baqarah. It is difficult, but very fundamental to lots of concepts. I think, I have first two verses where these are consistent with established rules of Arabic grammar as well Lexicon. Shall continue to share time to time as I decode. All positive critiques are welcome. Apologies to ones whose beliefs may get hurt. I am only out to find out, what the real truth is?

    Badar

    Surah 2 - Al-Baqarah

    21

    Is, man (mankind) in pain and suffering?

    22

    For that suffering, this is the eternal collection of principles. Without even a shadow of doubt, in it, are principles that lead to me; for the ones at safeguard against self extinction.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • L Offline
      L Offline
      loxbox13
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Is this a translation or just a spirituel explanation?

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • B Offline
        B Offline
        bkanwar2
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Is this a translation or just a spirituel explanation?

        Purely, just a Linguistic based translation.

        Dear All, I do not know, how you are going to feel? Next 2 verses have given me literally, Goose bumps.

        Badar

        23

        Such are the ones who shall become secure, safe and free from fear, of whatever is beyond reach of their senses and mental perception. As well, they shall become supporters and upholders of the most central and fundamental principle of; whatever sources of subsistence, we have provided them. They shouldn?t become retainers and withholders of such resources; rather they should keep those wide open, for everybody and anybody.

        24

        And such are the ones who shall become secure, safe and free from fear. With, what has been made to descend towards you, through generations. Just like, what had been made to descend through generations upon those, who were before you and the ones even, before them. They shall come to know it, both inferential and intuitively, as a certainty.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • B Offline
          B Offline
          bkanwar2
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Interesting comments from, My friend Nur. I think, I know exactly what he is saying. Below is my response. But I do not know how could I make people understand such break down/methodology. When they not interested at all. Any suggestions in this regards will be greatly appreciated. If, others have similar concerns.

          Badar

          NUR'S comments

          Salaam Br Badar,

          I have been asked to proof read the Arabic lexicon compiled by G A Parwez, I've post a couple of pages on the website
          http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/172/207/

          the most important aspect of your translation is not the translation itself, as it can be dismissed out of hand without clear evidence, that what you say the translation says has reference, that others can easily investigate and so prove what you say is indeed the correct message from Allah.

          This is why I say define each word as Alif is defined within the lexicon page I posted on the website and then we can incorporate this feature into the website, people can easily verify and investigate the truth of a thing with ease. So the important part is not what we have posted on the website, but the part we have not posted, the clear demonstration of how it is understood as such,

          Abdun Nur

          MY response,

          Sure, if it would help. It is worth it. Let me do it for 21. Please think and suggest methodology. Lot of readers are neither familiar even with basic of Arabic nor seem interested in getting themselves familiar. This very much includes even current speakers of Arabic. Which by the way is not one language; but a family of different languages identified by one name, as Arabic. This family only shares alphabets with Quranic Arabic with little Lexical concept sharing.

          So keeping in view just these few barriers. Please let me know, how to develop a methodology, that will suffice most readers with out their active participation. Keeping in mind we do not want another cult of blind followers.

          21

          In this word in Quranic text, there is a Medda or Matta. When at the beginning of a syllable, an alif with hemza and fetha ( &#1614 is followed by an alif with hemza and gezmma ( &#1618 then the two are commonly represented in writting by a single alif with medda, example,

          is written as (Ref A Grammar of the Arabic Language Reprint 1975; William Wright, paperback, vol.1 page 25)

          Now 21 is which means, it is actually

          is verbal root. From Lane it means "he was in pain or suffered". ,before root could be taken as a letter of interogation, meaning as what, is etc. Hence, meaning "Is he/man (mankind) suffering and in pain. Other, grammatical explanation of this word is, it could be IV form of the verb like . Then it would mean "He/Man is found to be in pain and suffering". (Wright page 44).

          Please review this. Let me know, if you could follow and understand. If not, what are the suggestions to make it understandable?

          Badar

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • B Offline
            B Offline
            bkanwar2
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Dear All I was still trying to find a conceptual explanation of word "Hudun" in verse 2. I think, I have it now to almost final version and understanding.

            Badar

            Surah 2 - Al-Baqarah

            21

            Is, man (mankind) in pain and suffering?

            22

            For that suffering, this is the eternal collection of principles. There shouldn?t even be a shadow of doubt in these principles and their purpose. A clear and shinny gift as a token of honor and courtesy for the ones at safeguard against, self extinction.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Alif

              Alif -This is a letter which symbolises a question as well as calls out (to someone).

              I am sorry to point out that the very first entry is giving incorrect information.

              Alif is not an interrogative particle. The prefixed interrogative particle is Hamza called .

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mazhar
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                MY response,

                Sure, if it would help. It is worth it. Let me do it for 21. Please think and suggest methodology. Lot of readers are neither familiar even with basic of Arabic nor seem interested in getting themselves familiar. This very much includes even current speakers of Arabic. Which by the way is not one language; but a family of different languages identified by one name, as Arabic. This family only shares alphabets with Quranic Arabic with little Lexical concept sharing.

                So keeping in view just these few barriers. Please let me know, how to develop a methodology, that will suffice most readers with out their active participation. Keeping in mind we do not want another cult of blind followers.

                21

                In this word in Quranic text, there is a Medda or Matta. When at the beginning of a syllable, an alif with hemza and fetha ( &#1614 is followed by an alif with hemza and gezmma ( &#1618 then the two are commonly represented in writting by a single alif with medda, example,

                is written as (Ref A Grammar of the Arabic Language Reprint 1975; William Wright, paperback, vol.1 page 25)

                May I suggest you to give another read to Wright to know what is he saying.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • B Offline
                  B Offline
                  bkanwar2
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  May I suggest you to give another read to Wright to know what is he saying.

                  Please give your take. Wright has only translated established rules of Arabic grammar in English, not a book of interpertation of Quranic text. You have my take with examples based upon established rules with referances. Please give your take with evidence, reason and logic. Thanks.

                  Badar

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Please give your take. Wright has only translated established rules of Arabic grammar in English, not a book of interpertation of Quranic text. You have my take with examples based upon established rules with referances. Please give your take with evidence, reason and logic. Thanks.

                    Badar

                    I had suggested a second read of Wright for your this observation

                    In this word in Quranic text, there is a Medda or Matta. When at the beginning of a syllable, an alif with hemza and fetha ( &#1614 is followed by an alif with hemza and gezmma ( &#1618 then the two are commonly represented in writting by a single alif with medda, example,

                    is written as (Ref A Grammar of the Arabic Language Reprint 1975; William Wright, paperback, vol.1 page 25)

                    This is so written only in Office software. In Arabic Text of Qur'aan you will not find it written like this.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • B Offline
                      B Offline
                      bkanwar2
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      This is so written only in Office software. In Arabic Text of Qur'aan you will not find it written like this.

                      Dear, which copy of Quran you are looking at?

                      Can you recognise these few verses, just a cut and past from open burhan site. Lot more with same script and orthography.

                      Badar

                      28

                      214

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mazhar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        You did nothing except confirming what I said earlier about software "Office". Now see the correct text

                        http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00022.%20Yomenoons%20Hamza%20Meem%20Noon%20believe/2.gif Verb Perfect; First person; Plural; ; + Subject Pronoun First Person; Plural. - Verbal Noun-(1)208(2)214(3)276(4)2136(5)307(6)316(7)352(353(9)383(10)3119(11)541(12)559(13)561(14)583(15)5111(16)7121 (17)7126(12070(19)2073(20)23109(21)2447(22)2647(23)2853(24)2902(25)2510(26)2946(27)3452(24084(29)4914(30)6729 (31)7212=31

                        Word by Word 208

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • B Offline
                          B Offline
                          bkanwar2
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          You did nothing except confirming what I said earlier about software "Office". Now see the correct text

                          http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00022.%20Yomenoons%20Hamza%20Meem%20Noon%20believe/2.gif Verb Perfect; First person; Plural; ; + Subject Pronoun First Person; Plural. - Verbal Noun-(1)208(2)214(3)276(4)2136(5)307(6)316(7)352(353(9)383(10)3119(11)541(12)559(13)561(14)583(15)5111(16)7121 (17)7126(12070(19)2073(20)23109(21)2447(22)2647(23)2853(24)2902(25)2510(26)2946(27)3452(24084(29)4914(30)6729 (31)7212=31

                          Word by Word 208

                          Dear Mazhar, why are you beating arround the bush? You know it very well, what I mean.

                          Peace,

                          Badar

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Dear Mazhar, why are you beating arround the bush? You know it very well, what I mean.

                            Peace,

                            Badar

                            First decide which word is the correct one, the one you pasted or the one I have pasted.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              bkanwar2
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              First decide which word is the correct one, the one you pasted or the one I have pasted.

                              It seems like you have already decided. What is right and what is wrong? It seems also as usual, you are not willing to heed to any other reason or logic. I am sure; you know well, it is only issue of "Kursi", of Hemza, only mater of writing method/orthography. Mostly, with fetha as vowel over Hemza is written, over an alif. Two sucessive hemza with fetha over an alif, followed by another Hemza with fetha or sukun over another alif, can be written in three different orthographic forms. One is which, Wright has cited and explained, referred in my earlier post. But I am sure you would have reasons not to understand these well known and established rules as well.

                              Badar

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mazhar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Two sucessive hemza with fetha over an alif, followed by another Hemza with fetha or sukun over another alif, can be written in three different orthographic forms. One is which, Wright has cited and explained, referred in my earlier post.

                                But where are sucessive hamza with faha seated over alif in the word quoted?

                                And remember Madda has nothing to do with successive hamza story. It is always placed on a letter followed by vowelled hamza to make the hamza audible for the listner. Madda sign reflects only stretching of sound, also literal meanings of the word.

                                http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00022.%20Yomenoons%20Hamza%20Meem%20Noon%20believe/2.gif

                                Word by Word 208

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • B Offline
                                  B Offline
                                  bkanwar2
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  But where are sucessive hamza with faha seated over alif in the word quoted?

                                  And remember Madda has nothing to do with successive hamza story. It is always placed on a letter followed by vowelled hamza to make the hamza audible for the listner. Madda sign reflects only stretching of sound, also literal meanings of the word.

                                  Most certainly, looks perfect from people, who made the most precious gift of knowledge to a mere article of vocalization only. No need to understand. Get all the Sawab by murmering it.

                                  Badar

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Most certainly, looks perfect from people, who made the most precious gift of knowledge to a mere article of vocalization only. No need to understand. Get all the Sawab by murmering it.

                                    Badar

                                    This is your old habit. When you have nothing to say when confronted with realities, you make an escape with such meaningless remarks. You also call that sign Madda and then naively ignore its meanings while not finding any successive hamza seated upon Alif in the word quoted on which you were basing your proposition. Why don't you attend to that?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • B Offline
                                      B Offline
                                      bkanwar2
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Here is the linguistic analysis of the word AlKitab.

                                      is a verbal noun, a masdar and a plural fractus as well. Additonally, it is Marafa. Muaraf bil Lam. You could call it a proper noun for lake of better explanation in English. But it is really to narrow the scope of the noun to a know thing. It is at the measure of verbal noun (masdar) . This measure has several meanings. But in Quran, for this word it would be more appropriate to consider, used as plural fractus.

                                      Root of this word is . Which means "he wrote, what he had heard or learned". Now if one were to put this meaning into measure of verbal noun (masdar). it would become "A collection, he wrote from what he heard or learned". Add meaning of particle "Al". Now it becomes "The collection he wrote from what he heard or learned".

                                      Peace, Comments please.

                                      Badar

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      Reply
                                      • Reply as topic
                                      Log in to reply
                                      • Oldest to Newest
                                      • Newest to Oldest
                                      • Most Votes


                                      • Login

                                      • Don't have an account? Register

                                      • Login or register to search.
                                      • First post
                                        Last post
                                      0
                                      • Categories
                                      • Recent
                                      • Users