Does God know whole of the future of the individual
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Ok, If God knows the future then it is fixed. If the furure is fixed then how can we be blamed for doing wrong since it was predestined.
Sometimes I think that God doesn't know the future. If no one new the future of an individual and therefor it hasn't hapened anywere, not even in Gods miond then we have free wil.
So my question is can we have free will and have the future hapened already in Gods knowledge. I think that its very hard for that to be the case!
What does everyone else think?
Thanks
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Hello,
I've also thought about this quite a lot. Perhaps if we consider God to be outside of the univerise in which we exist the one which God resides in may have other natural laws than ours. A universe without any sort of passage of time. So from the outside looking in it may appear that everything has already happened here. Or a different kind of law that we cannot even comprehend. Of course i'm just stabbing in the dark. ;D
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Peace Pel,
The god knows all the possible futures of every individual. And each individual chooses/decides his own future.
I hope this helps.
Oooh Someone, I like your answer a lot. I have never heard such an explanation and it never came to my mind.
Thanks a lot
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Stuff like this is really interesting and stimulating ). I hope more people post their thoughts.
Im not sure God would be subject to any laws of any universe, he must be independant and self sufficient of everything. All that is and is any particular universe must be Gods creation and the laws of it subject to him. The throne of God mentioned in the Quran could maybe be a "master" universe created by God and subject to his rule through which he rules all other universes created. Stabbing i the dark i am uh-ho yes ).
However its hard to imagine time not to exist at all, anything that happens and is does so at a certain time interval. The theoretical physics dudes so far seem to have modeled it as time not being constant and subject to change depending on the relative field of gravity and and relative speed and stuff like that, relative. The Quran does mention God seeing things as happening very fast on earth while we see them happening slow, does imply on some relativity there.
But if God knows our future, well im very sure he does, God is capable of all things. Im sure he knows every possible outcome of the slightest of things and is in full control of its outcome. Im sometimes thinking that he probably knew me before i ever came into being. As i recall having read somewhere in the Quran, "To God belongs all the secrets".Peace to you all.
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The god knows all the possible futures of every individual. And each individual chooses/decides his own future.
bravo i agree...
God only KNOWS our decisions, He doesn't make them for us...
and since He knows us, how we're raised, our environment and how it affects us, He knows the outcome, knows what path we'll take -
Hmm Someone and Nerspi, those are intriguing ideas. So then you could say that the quran does not have a happy relationship with the concept of chance? I suppose that would explain the stance on gambling.
EDIT
An unhappy relationship if you like to gamble anyways haha ;D
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Hello,
I've also thought about this quite a lot. Perhaps if we consider God to be outside of the univerise in which we exist the one which God resides in may have other natural laws than ours. A universe without any sort of passage of time. So from the outside looking in it may appear that everything has already happened here. Or a different kind of law that we cannot even comprehend. Of course i'm just stabbing in the dark. ;D
Exactly. Time, as well as space, are concepts limited to this material universe. God transcends these manifested realms. Asking if God knows the future puts the cart before the horse. There is no future. Just an eternal now, to God.
Time itself is an animal construct. There is no such thing as absolute time. It's merely the illusion of a chronology of events as interpreted by a pack of neurons.
More to the point, God's supra-temporal knowledge does not override free will. Foreknowledge =/= forced action.
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Hmm Someone and Nerspi, those are intriguing ideas. So then you could say that the quran does not have a happy relationship with the concept of chance? I suppose that would explain the stance on gambling.
EDIT
An unhappy relationship if you like to gamble anyways haha ;D
why you keep mentioning gambling, do you know me, have we met ;D
umm, yeah there's no chance or luck or coincidences, all paths are already there, we just choose them based on how we developed our souls... and since God knows how we all are even better then we know ourselves, He knows what happens.
technically future is not set, it's kinda vague, it only gets set the moment you make a decision to do something.as far as gambling, it's not a game of chance (maybe once it was but not today), if it's a game of chance for the player, then it's a game of chance for the casino... which would mean they wouldn't always win... but because casinos ALWAYS win, every single time, you can win or lose but they always win... because of that it's not a chance anymore, it's a strategy, it's a system.
gambling is not really prohibited in the quran, it is however mentioned as a tool of satan, which it is, because it's fixed, only evil mind made it, it's designed to take money from people, plus it addictive, ... so whoever made it didn't get the idea from God in order to help people or do good, it was inspired by satan whose nature is evil and to cause corruption and everything opposite of what God wants... it leads down a bad path, that's why we should avoid it -
Peace
This is an interesting subject. There is a possibility that while God can do anything, including "breaking" the laws we are subjected to, He may have chosen not to in relation to us. The idea of God being aware of all outcomes of all decisions taken makes sense to me. He does not, however know which decision we are going to make. There could be no accountability if this was the case.
An interesting verse is 6101 where God puts forward the argument that "How can He have a child when He has no consort/mate?" If He has not chosen act within His laws when it comes to man, this argument would be extremely illogical.
Imraan
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peace Imraan,
Knowing what decision a person will make does not mean one forced that person to make that decision, just means they know that person really well. There is no accountability when one is forced. We have free-choice, we are not forced to do anything.
I do not think 6101 implies that. It seems to be a rhetorical question and makes the audience think, e.g. either they accept the argument and say "yeh God does not have a mate he cant have a child" or they say "God does not need a mate to have a child, God is all-powerful" but if they accept the latter then an all-powerful being has no need of a child either.
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Peace Wakas
Wakas wrote
peace Imraan,
Knowing what decision a person will make does not mean one forced that person to make that decision, just means they know that person really well. There is no accountability when one is forced. We have free-choice, we are not forced to do anything.
I do not think 6101 implies that. It seems to be a rhetorical question and makes the audience think, e.g. either they accept the argument and say "yeh God does not have a mate he cant have a child" or they say "God does not need a mate to have a child, God is all-powerful" but if they accept the latter then an all-powerful being has no need of a child either.
I don't think that one can say that because I know someone really well, I know what decision they will make. One can, however make an educated guess as to what decision they will make. Knowing with certainty what anyone will do means that they will do that. One may not have forced them to to do it, but if it is certain that they will do it, it is a foregone conclusion. This would mean that they cannot decide differently from this foregone conclusion. This equates to forcing such a person to do something by virtue of the very fact that they cannot deviate from such a foregone conclusion.
For me, 6101 is not rhetorical. God's choice to limit His intervention in our lives through any kind of miraculous act is not asserting that God is limited. If I can run faster than my 6 year old son, but choose to let him win the race; it does not follow that I am incapable of winning the race, just that I choose to give him the pleasure of winning the race.
For me, God placing such limitations upon Himself is proof of an All Powerful God. Such a God has no need to assert His capabilities to act miraculously in order to bring about an effect that had no cause within the human sphere. The consistency provided in our lives by the absence of miraculous intervention allows for proper results / effects to follow the initiating cause. It is for this reason that we can evaluate the truth of the message in that when we act according to the laws set out by God, using the guidance sent down through revelation, the results will be consistent.
That's my take on it anyway. There may be verses that I haven't come to grips with yet, but I cannot find it within myself to accept such things as miraculous. I or we, may just not understand how the laws governing these work yet.
Imraan
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peace Imraan,
I don't think that one can say that because I know someone really well, I know what decision they will make. One can, however make an educated guess as to what decision they will make. Knowing with certainty what anyone will do means that they will do that. One may not have forced them to to do it, but if it is certain that they will do it, it is a foregone conclusion. This would mean that they cannot decide differently from this foregone conclusion. This equates to forcing such a person to do something by virtue of the very fact that they cannot deviate from such a foregone conclusion.
Parts in bold are contradictory.
However, you are right when you say to us it may be an 'educated guess', but to an all-knowing entity who has all the information, it would not be a guess.Also, you discussed whether something is miraculous or not, but I never mentioned that at all. That is a much bigger, but somewhat related discussion. I agree with the gist of what you said, but I have found those who advocate such an absolute view falter when it comes to explaining divine revelation in the form of a scripture.
I would be interested to know of any Quranic works or reasoning which attempt to explain such or attempts to claim God does not know which path we will take.
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God doesn't know what will you do next. The reason for creation was for God to know who is the best in conduct. If He already knew, there is no point in creation.
When something happens, God will know about it. Thats why Angels keep sending information to God. What is the point if God already knows.
So God is not an infinite being outside of time and space but actually a physical being. The angels take 50000 years to reach Him.
Peace.
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God doesn't know what will you do next. The reason for creation was for God to know who is the best in conduct. If He already knew, there is no point in creation.
When something happens, God will know about it. Thats why Angels keep sending information to God. What is the point if God already knows.
So God is not an infinite being outside of time and space but actually a physical being. The angels take 50000 years to reach Him.
Peace.
Wow. So God didn't create the universe for you?
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Peace
Saying God does not know what we will freely choose is an option to solving the dilemma with the added supplement that knowing what man will freely choose is impossible and against the laws of nature; omnipotence does not necessitate breaking the laws of nature or doing the impossible.
Wakas's option seems on the right track as well. The dilemma is built on something called the Principle of Alternate Possibilities. I must have alternate possibilities in order for my act to be free. If God knows the future, I can do nothing other than what God knows, thus I am not free. But I do not think the Principle of Alternate Possibilities is a necessary requirement for free will.
For example, assume that I am in a room and I must choose between leaving the room or staying in the room. Let's add the condition that the door is locked. Thus, I really only have the possibility of staying in the room, no alternate possibilities. If I choose to stay in the room regardless, have I not acted freely? I stole this example from John Locke.
Peace
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Peace
Saying God does not know what we will freely choose is an option to the dilemma.
Wakas's option seems on the right track as well. The dilemma is built on something called the Principle of Alternate Possibilities. I must have alternate possibilities in order for my act to be free. If God knows the future, I can do nothing other than what God knows, thus I am not free. But I do not think the Principle of Alternate Possibilities is a necessary requirement for free will.
For example, assume that I am in a room and I must choose between leaving the room or staying in the room. Let's add the condition that the door is locked. Thus, I really only have the possibility of staying in the room, no alternate possibilities. If I choose to stay in the room regardless, have I not acted freely? I stole this example from John Locke.
Peace
How does God knowing what you will do control what you will do?
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I agree with you Wootah. That's the point of the example of the room
Peace
