Quranist or hadithists ?
-
I believe appelations are importants, us , they call us coranists, and we accept this label because we're sutdents of the quran, and not a sect, i see differences of opinions between coranists, but one thing that i noticed and i like , it's tolerance between each other, i noticed even love even though we don't know each other, no matter how diferent in opinions we will be, we only argue with the sects, sunnis, shi'as,catholics, 19rs, but coranists are not a sect, always debating and that is a real SALAT , so to help people from sunna and shia realise, it(s better to label them with their true label, because if one is on the sunna of mohamed has to be on the sunna that mohamed followed, the sunna of allah, and that is obviously students of the quran, sunnis called themselves sunna of mohamed so they put a veil on their eyes, i think all muslims in the world now are devided on two , Hadithists wich are the majority or more than 90% and coranists that are maybe 1or 2 or 3 % and growing and growing, but from now on, every sect is hadithists, even 19ers with their appendix are hadithists,
Well,I still dont know am I coranists or sunni but I am sure that I understend Quran,but dont understand hadith ;D
-
Peace,
Respect.The people who follow hadeeth by Bukhary, Muslim, Dawood & co., call themselves muslims or sunni or sunni muslims, because they simply believe that sunnah and hadeeth are from the prophet/messenger Muhammad and we can't convince them otherwise, nor it is our job to.
Since they call themselves sunnis and they follow hadeeths as well, I don't see why we shouldn't call them the way they call themselves already. God knows best. However, when they call us Quraniyya, they (best to my knowledge, God knows best) mean it as a derogatory term, like an outlaw or someone who doesn't follow or understand Qur'an/Islam prperly, in their own eyes, of course.
I call myself muslim.
When and if they see me praying with my hands along my body or washing first my left foot, arm, sometimes, or doing something that is not only against the sunnah and hadeeth or strangers but also told in The Qur'an, I just quote The Qur'an. When and if I quote The Qur'an, the argument starts.Peace.
-
Like you, Alen, I call myself muslim. I consider myself a fundamentalist, as in adhering to the fundament, the Quran. However, "religious fundamentalist" or "fundamentalist muslim" invokes negative connotations for most people. It's a sad state of affairs.
-
I do not belong to the new sect label that those needing a label other than Muslim have given Quran Alone God Alone followers. I am Muslim, I study, reflect, think and follow the word of Allah.
The label Quranist has been given as a derogatory term by those who do not 'get it' and what could be better than being called someone who follows the word of Allah Alone? This is what happens when they don't use reason or think.
I have been called many names on this forum by the peaceful Muhammed following sunni sect, Quranist is certainly the better one and the one that makes me smile most. ;D
-
Peace,
Respect.Also, when ever they use a derogatory term or any other names which aren't polite, we should remind them of the verse from The Qur'an
4911 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
I've been called a Quraniyya, a kaffir, sect of Rashad, so many but I don' care, in fact, I'm happy that I see The Truth, Thank God, Glory be to God and I'm always grateful to The Exalted Creator The Most Powerful, One and Only God, Who has guided me here. Without Allah SWT, I'd be lost.
We should focus on reaching Paradise, inshaAllah.
Glory be to God.musclePeace.
-
I believe appelations are importants, us , they call us coranists, and we accept this label because we're sutdents of the quran, and not a sect, i see differences of opinions between coranists, but one thing that i noticed and i like , it's tolerance between each other, i noticed even love even though we don't know each other, no matter how diferent in opinions we will be, we only argue with the sects, sunnis, shi'as,catholics, 19rs, but coranists are not a sect, always debating and that is a real SALAT , so to help people from sunna and shia realise, it(s better to label them with their true label, because if one is on the sunna of mohamed has to be on the sunna that mohamed followed, the sunna of allah, and that is obviously students of the quran, sunnis called themselves sunna of mohamed so they put a veil on their eyes, i think all muslims in the world now are devided on two , Hadithists wich are the majority or more than 90% and coranists that are maybe 1or 2 or 3 % and growing and growing, but from now on, every sect is hadithists, even 19ers with their appendix are hadithists,
You can call them Bukharioon
-
Peace,
Respect.Also, when ever they use a derogatory term or any other names which aren't polite, we should remind them of the verse from The Qur'an
4911 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
I've been called a Quraniyya, a kaffir, sect of Rashad, so many but I don' care, in fact, I'm happy that I see The Truth, Thank God, Glory be to God and I'm always grateful to The Exalted Creator The Most Powerful, One and Only God, Who has guided me here. Without Allah SWT, I'd be lost.
We should focus on reaching Paradise, inshaAllah.
Glory be to God.musclePeace.
May I say amin,or it it is not Quranic word? ;D
-
I heard that AMEN come from ancient paien religions that use to invole Amun RA, it's Amen for christians, Ameen for muslim sectarians, I am not sure for i didn't do the research
Amen must be just another thing inserted in islam through hadiths , just like stoning and many other things, it's not in the quran, than it's not sure the peophet said it, specially now it sounds like amun ra , a god of egyptians, i might be wrong but it sounds logic to me after all hadiths insertions -
I just hear that word Bukharistes and it made me laugh, but than you know how it sounds in arabic ??? very very funny, any arabic speaker can confirm it, i don't want to make fun of the man, but for those who don't know
BU = is usually used for father, like buabdellah, bu hureira, etc....
Khari is someone who took crap on himself LOL true,they say bukhari is because he comes from a town called bukhara ,
also boukhara sounds like father of crapSorry for the villan words though, just wanted to explain the word wich made me laugh, bukharistes
-
I heard that AMEN come from ancient paien religions that use to invole Amun RA, it's Amen for christians, Ameen for muslim sectarians, I am not sure for i didn't do the research
Amen must be just another thing inserted in islam through hadiths , just like stoning and many other things, it's not in the quran, than it's not sure the peophet said it, specially now it sounds like amun ra , a god of egyptians, i might be wrong but it sounds logic to me after all hadiths insertionsI did not know these...
-
I heard that AMEN come from ancient paien religions that use to invole Amun RA, it's Amen for christians, Ameen for muslim sectarians, I am not sure for i didn't do the research
Amen must be just another thing inserted in islam through hadiths , just like stoning and many other things, it's not in the quran, than it's not sure the peophet said it, specially now it sounds like amun ra , a god of egyptians, i might be wrong but it sounds logic to me after all hadiths insertionsAmun Ra was The God, Allah, God, the main biggy, The creator. The Egyptians, like most other 'religions' and people with human limited thought/imagination/whatever you want to call it that we lack, needed to have something they could SEE to worship, just as many do now, because they (we) cannot understand the concept of Allah/God/The Creator.
Amen is an affirmation. it is used first in Torah Deut 27 and is the last word in the New Testement. I doubt it is anything to do with Amun Ra though as Amen is a Hebrew word and means 'so be it'
-
Peace
In Arabic mn simply means "so be it". To Muslims it is a reasonable end to any supplication. There are Adith suggesting that the prophet Muhammad encouraged people to say it after supplications. Other traditions tell that the prophet commanded the believers to say mn when the Imm completes reading srah Al-Ftiah. He is reported to have said Ab Hurayrah reported The Messenger of Allah (sws) said Say mn when the Imam says mn, for if anyone's utterance of mn synchronises with that of the angels, he will be forgiven his past sins.
So there you have it. This is how Amin entered into Islam ;D
The word Amen is used by the Jews. It appears 3 times in the Old testament.
The use of "Amen" has been generally adopted in Christian worship as a concluding word for prayers and hymns and express strong agreements. There are 52 Amens in the Synoptic Gospels and 25 in John.
Many Buddhists and Hindus also use Amen at the end of prayers and as concurrence in the same way as the other religions.
But where did it all begin?
From old Egyptian texts we can see that people regarded the sun as the emblem of the Creator. They called the sun Ra, and all other gods and goddesses were forms of the Creator. One of these gods was Amen; a secret, hidden and mysterious god named variously Amen, Amon, Amun, Ammon and Amounra. For the first eleven dynasties (c. 3000-1987 B.C.) Amen was just a minor god, but by the 17th dynasty (c. 1500 B.C.) he had been elevated to be the national god of southern Egypt. This position gave Amen the attributes and characteristics of the most ancient gods, and his name became Amen-Ra, that is, a supreme form of God the Creator. By the 18th Dynasty (1539-1295 B.C.) a college had been established to study Amen-Ra and as a focal point for worship.
Jews settled in Egypt for around 400 years4 from 1847 B.C. and during this sojourn they would certainly have been fully exposed to the worship of Amen-Ra. By the time of their exodus from Egypt in 1447 B.C., the term 'Amen' would be in their language even if it was not their god. It would be a word that had associations with reverence and majesty. This is not difficult to understand. People still talk about Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha, and often use those names completely out of context as expletives. Amen was seen as a powerful god and the name continued, out of context, as an exclamation or salutation; a classic example of language evolution. From the Jews, the word was adopted by Christians, Muslims and others.
So Amen was originally the name of a Pagan god, who was considered a form of God the Creator. But he was certainly not considered God, or Christ. Interestingly, most Pagans today tend not to use the word, preferring instead to say "So mote it be", an old Anglo-Saxon term. Perhaps they see the word Amen in the Bible and the Tanakh and don't want to be associated with Christianity or the like. Indeed, in the Bible we see Jesus Christ referred to as "The Amen". Christ is God's Amen to all that he has spoken. Thereby the name used for an old Egyptian god is replaced by the same name used for Christ.
Like many other words used in religion, (or art, mathematics, medicine, etc) it's easy to believe that our ancestors saw no point in creating new vocabulary when existing and familiar words could be recycled. (The term 'God', for example, has been recycled by most religions.) Yet some people are vehemently protective of things and believe Amen is a Biblical word which is also found in the Tanakh and in Islam, and happens to sound like the name of a Pagan god. Others believe it is an Islamic word that can also be found in the Bible and Tanakh. And so on. The whole issue is hotly debated and any Pagan link denied by many. Who knows how many accidental or deliberate mistranslations have crept in over the centuries.
Nowhere in the Bible, the Tanakh or the Qur'an can we find words to suggest one can be redeemed by merely uttering a magic word.
Whether Amen is magic, rooted in a Pagan deity, originally a Christian word, a Muslim word, a Jewish word, or anything else, the question is the same So what? When Christians, Jews and Muslims say Amen, they do not invoke any god or any power just by saying that word or indeed any other word. Amen does not even make other words more sincere. But Amen, like all the other language we use, helps us to focus on what we mean in our hearts.
And that is the answer to "So what?" What really matters is what is said by the heart.
Your Views are welcomed.
Peace
-
The word Amen is used by the Jews. It appears 3 times in the Old testament.
It appears once in each verse from Deut 27.15 to 27.26, that's 12 times.
Once in Numbers 5.22,
once in 1 Kings 1.36,
once in 1 Chronicles 16.36
once in Nehemiah 5.13
twice in nehamiah 8.6
twice in Psalms 41.13, 72.19 and 89.52
once in Pslams 106.48
once in Jeremiah 11.5 and 28.6Thats 27 times in the Old testament
then another 28 times in the New Testament 8 of which are in Revelations
I have just downloaded Deut 27 audio in Hebrew and listened and the word Amen is distinctly Amen in Hebrew.
-
I personnaly won't use it anyome, don"t want a hypocrit, just because i like the word AMEEEEN , sounds nice after prayer, also means allah accept our prayer, but than, it's not in the quran, why do I have to inherit something from tradition and reject the rest ?
I believe amen symbolise something , that's why it always creeps through the back door in religions, maybe it's ok, but me? I don't want to be a hypocrit, what will u say to a hadithist if he asks u about it? how did u learn amen? from the bible? the hadith ? found your fathers saying it? it's not in the quran -
Peace
In Arabic mn simply means "so be it". To Muslims it is a reasonable end to any supplication. There are Adith suggesting that the prophet Muhammad encouraged people to say it after supplications. Other traditions tell that the prophet commanded the believers to say mn when the Imm completes reading srah Al-Ftiah. He is reported to have said Ab Hurayrah reported The Messenger of Allah (sws) said Say mn when the Imam says mn, for if anyone's utterance of mn synchronises with that of the angels, he will be forgiven his past sins.
So there you have it. This is how Amin entered into Islam ;D
The word Amen is used by the Jews. It appears 3 times in the Old testament.
The use of "Amen" has been generally adopted in Christian worship as a concluding word for prayers and hymns and express strong agreements. There are 52 Amens in the Synoptic Gospels and 25 in John.
Many Buddhists and Hindus also use Amen at the end of prayers and as concurrence in the same way as the other religions.
But where did it all begin?
From old Egyptian texts we can see that people regarded the sun as the emblem of the Creator. They called the sun Ra, and all other gods and goddesses were forms of the Creator. One of these gods was Amen; a secret, hidden and mysterious god named variously Amen, Amon, Amun, Ammon and Amounra. For the first eleven dynasties (c. 3000-1987 B.C.) Amen was just a minor god, but by the 17th dynasty (c. 1500 B.C.) he had been elevated to be the national god of southern Egypt. This position gave Amen the attributes and characteristics of the most ancient gods, and his name became Amen-Ra, that is, a supreme form of God the Creator. By the 18th Dynasty (1539-1295 B.C.) a college had been established to study Amen-Ra and as a focal point for worship.
Jews settled in Egypt for around 400 years4 from 1847 B.C. and during this sojourn they would certainly have been fully exposed to the worship of Amen-Ra. By the time of their exodus from Egypt in 1447 B.C., the term 'Amen' would be in their language even if it was not their god. It would be a word that had associations with reverence and majesty. This is not difficult to understand. People still talk about Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha, and often use those names completely out of context as expletives. Amen was seen as a powerful god and the name continued, out of context, as an exclamation or salutation; a classic example of language evolution. From the Jews, the word was adopted by Christians, Muslims and others.
So Amen was originally the name of a Pagan god, who was considered a form of God the Creator. But he was certainly not considered God, or Christ. Interestingly, most Pagans today tend not to use the word, preferring instead to say "So mote it be", an old Anglo-Saxon term. Perhaps they see the word Amen in the Bible and the Tanakh and don't want to be associated with Christianity or the like. Indeed, in the Bible we see Jesus Christ referred to as "The Amen". Christ is God's Amen to all that he has spoken. Thereby the name used for an old Egyptian god is replaced by the same name used for Christ.
Like many other words used in religion, (or art, mathematics, medicine, etc) it's easy to believe that our ancestors saw no point in creating new vocabulary when existing and familiar words could be recycled. (The term 'God', for example, has been recycled by most religions.) Yet some people are vehemently protective of things and believe Amen is a Biblical word which is also found in the Tanakh and in Islam, and happens to sound like the name of a Pagan god. Others believe it is an Islamic word that can also be found in the Bible and Tanakh. And so on. The whole issue is hotly debated and any Pagan link denied by many. Who knows how many accidental or deliberate mistranslations have crept in over the centuries.
Nowhere in the Bible, the Tanakh or the Qur'an can we find words to suggest one can be redeemed by merely uttering a magic word.
Whether Amen is magic, rooted in a Pagan deity, originally a Christian word, a Muslim word, a Jewish word, or anything else, the question is the same So what? When Christians, Jews and Muslims say Amen, they do not invoke any god or any power just by saying that word or indeed any other word. Amen does not even make other words more sincere. But Amen, like all the other language we use, helps us to focus on what we mean in our hearts.
And that is the answer to "So what?" What really matters is what is said by the heart.
Your Views are welcomed.
Peace
Interesting. Thanks for that
-
I personnaly won't use it anyome, don"t want a hypocrit, just because i like the word AMEEEEN , sounds nice after prayer, also means allah accept our prayer, but than, it's not in the quran, why do I have to inherit something from tradition and reject the rest ?
I believe amen symbolise something , that's why it always creeps through the back door in religions, maybe it's ok, but me? I don't want to be a hypocrit, what will u say to a hadithist if he asks u about it? how did u learn amen? from the bible? the hadith ? found your fathers saying it? it's not in the quranPeace loxbox13
You are right. If you feel it symbolises something other than what it is intended to mean then you have free will not to say it. I personally do not say it, but that does not mean if someone else did I would say do not do it. This is because I can not read their heart, only Allah has that power and He will judge between us all. I have come to accept that people all have different paths, doesn't mean we have to follow. We can only give our view and wish it is the correct view based on our God given faculties to think and varify. It reminds me of a verse from the Quran
4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made
you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another.Peace