Quranist or hadithists ?
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I heard that AMEN come from ancient paien religions that use to invole Amun RA, it's Amen for christians, Ameen for muslim sectarians, I am not sure for i didn't do the research
Amen must be just another thing inserted in islam through hadiths , just like stoning and many other things, it's not in the quran, than it's not sure the peophet said it, specially now it sounds like amun ra , a god of egyptians, i might be wrong but it sounds logic to me after all hadiths insertions -
I just hear that word Bukharistes and it made me laugh, but than you know how it sounds in arabic ??? very very funny, any arabic speaker can confirm it, i don't want to make fun of the man, but for those who don't know
BU = is usually used for father, like buabdellah, bu hureira, etc....
Khari is someone who took crap on himself LOL true,they say bukhari is because he comes from a town called bukhara ,
also boukhara sounds like father of crapSorry for the villan words though, just wanted to explain the word wich made me laugh, bukharistes
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I heard that AMEN come from ancient paien religions that use to invole Amun RA, it's Amen for christians, Ameen for muslim sectarians, I am not sure for i didn't do the research
Amen must be just another thing inserted in islam through hadiths , just like stoning and many other things, it's not in the quran, than it's not sure the peophet said it, specially now it sounds like amun ra , a god of egyptians, i might be wrong but it sounds logic to me after all hadiths insertionsI did not know these...
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I heard that AMEN come from ancient paien religions that use to invole Amun RA, it's Amen for christians, Ameen for muslim sectarians, I am not sure for i didn't do the research
Amen must be just another thing inserted in islam through hadiths , just like stoning and many other things, it's not in the quran, than it's not sure the peophet said it, specially now it sounds like amun ra , a god of egyptians, i might be wrong but it sounds logic to me after all hadiths insertionsAmun Ra was The God, Allah, God, the main biggy, The creator. The Egyptians, like most other 'religions' and people with human limited thought/imagination/whatever you want to call it that we lack, needed to have something they could SEE to worship, just as many do now, because they (we) cannot understand the concept of Allah/God/The Creator.
Amen is an affirmation. it is used first in Torah Deut 27 and is the last word in the New Testement. I doubt it is anything to do with Amun Ra though as Amen is a Hebrew word and means 'so be it'
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Peace
In Arabic mn simply means "so be it". To Muslims it is a reasonable end to any supplication. There are Adith suggesting that the prophet Muhammad encouraged people to say it after supplications. Other traditions tell that the prophet commanded the believers to say mn when the Imm completes reading srah Al-Ftiah. He is reported to have said Ab Hurayrah reported The Messenger of Allah (sws) said Say mn when the Imam says mn, for if anyone's utterance of mn synchronises with that of the angels, he will be forgiven his past sins.
So there you have it. This is how Amin entered into Islam ;D
The word Amen is used by the Jews. It appears 3 times in the Old testament.
The use of "Amen" has been generally adopted in Christian worship as a concluding word for prayers and hymns and express strong agreements. There are 52 Amens in the Synoptic Gospels and 25 in John.
Many Buddhists and Hindus also use Amen at the end of prayers and as concurrence in the same way as the other religions.
But where did it all begin?
From old Egyptian texts we can see that people regarded the sun as the emblem of the Creator. They called the sun Ra, and all other gods and goddesses were forms of the Creator. One of these gods was Amen; a secret, hidden and mysterious god named variously Amen, Amon, Amun, Ammon and Amounra. For the first eleven dynasties (c. 3000-1987 B.C.) Amen was just a minor god, but by the 17th dynasty (c. 1500 B.C.) he had been elevated to be the national god of southern Egypt. This position gave Amen the attributes and characteristics of the most ancient gods, and his name became Amen-Ra, that is, a supreme form of God the Creator. By the 18th Dynasty (1539-1295 B.C.) a college had been established to study Amen-Ra and as a focal point for worship.
Jews settled in Egypt for around 400 years4 from 1847 B.C. and during this sojourn they would certainly have been fully exposed to the worship of Amen-Ra. By the time of their exodus from Egypt in 1447 B.C., the term 'Amen' would be in their language even if it was not their god. It would be a word that had associations with reverence and majesty. This is not difficult to understand. People still talk about Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha, and often use those names completely out of context as expletives. Amen was seen as a powerful god and the name continued, out of context, as an exclamation or salutation; a classic example of language evolution. From the Jews, the word was adopted by Christians, Muslims and others.
So Amen was originally the name of a Pagan god, who was considered a form of God the Creator. But he was certainly not considered God, or Christ. Interestingly, most Pagans today tend not to use the word, preferring instead to say "So mote it be", an old Anglo-Saxon term. Perhaps they see the word Amen in the Bible and the Tanakh and don't want to be associated with Christianity or the like. Indeed, in the Bible we see Jesus Christ referred to as "The Amen". Christ is God's Amen to all that he has spoken. Thereby the name used for an old Egyptian god is replaced by the same name used for Christ.
Like many other words used in religion, (or art, mathematics, medicine, etc) it's easy to believe that our ancestors saw no point in creating new vocabulary when existing and familiar words could be recycled. (The term 'God', for example, has been recycled by most religions.) Yet some people are vehemently protective of things and believe Amen is a Biblical word which is also found in the Tanakh and in Islam, and happens to sound like the name of a Pagan god. Others believe it is an Islamic word that can also be found in the Bible and Tanakh. And so on. The whole issue is hotly debated and any Pagan link denied by many. Who knows how many accidental or deliberate mistranslations have crept in over the centuries.
Nowhere in the Bible, the Tanakh or the Qur'an can we find words to suggest one can be redeemed by merely uttering a magic word.
Whether Amen is magic, rooted in a Pagan deity, originally a Christian word, a Muslim word, a Jewish word, or anything else, the question is the same So what? When Christians, Jews and Muslims say Amen, they do not invoke any god or any power just by saying that word or indeed any other word. Amen does not even make other words more sincere. But Amen, like all the other language we use, helps us to focus on what we mean in our hearts.
And that is the answer to "So what?" What really matters is what is said by the heart.
Your Views are welcomed.
Peace
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The word Amen is used by the Jews. It appears 3 times in the Old testament.
It appears once in each verse from Deut 27.15 to 27.26, that's 12 times.
Once in Numbers 5.22,
once in 1 Kings 1.36,
once in 1 Chronicles 16.36
once in Nehemiah 5.13
twice in nehamiah 8.6
twice in Psalms 41.13, 72.19 and 89.52
once in Pslams 106.48
once in Jeremiah 11.5 and 28.6Thats 27 times in the Old testament
then another 28 times in the New Testament 8 of which are in Revelations
I have just downloaded Deut 27 audio in Hebrew and listened and the word Amen is distinctly Amen in Hebrew.
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I personnaly won't use it anyome, don"t want a hypocrit, just because i like the word AMEEEEN , sounds nice after prayer, also means allah accept our prayer, but than, it's not in the quran, why do I have to inherit something from tradition and reject the rest ?
I believe amen symbolise something , that's why it always creeps through the back door in religions, maybe it's ok, but me? I don't want to be a hypocrit, what will u say to a hadithist if he asks u about it? how did u learn amen? from the bible? the hadith ? found your fathers saying it? it's not in the quran -
Peace
In Arabic mn simply means "so be it". To Muslims it is a reasonable end to any supplication. There are Adith suggesting that the prophet Muhammad encouraged people to say it after supplications. Other traditions tell that the prophet commanded the believers to say mn when the Imm completes reading srah Al-Ftiah. He is reported to have said Ab Hurayrah reported The Messenger of Allah (sws) said Say mn when the Imam says mn, for if anyone's utterance of mn synchronises with that of the angels, he will be forgiven his past sins.
So there you have it. This is how Amin entered into Islam ;D
The word Amen is used by the Jews. It appears 3 times in the Old testament.
The use of "Amen" has been generally adopted in Christian worship as a concluding word for prayers and hymns and express strong agreements. There are 52 Amens in the Synoptic Gospels and 25 in John.
Many Buddhists and Hindus also use Amen at the end of prayers and as concurrence in the same way as the other religions.
But where did it all begin?
From old Egyptian texts we can see that people regarded the sun as the emblem of the Creator. They called the sun Ra, and all other gods and goddesses were forms of the Creator. One of these gods was Amen; a secret, hidden and mysterious god named variously Amen, Amon, Amun, Ammon and Amounra. For the first eleven dynasties (c. 3000-1987 B.C.) Amen was just a minor god, but by the 17th dynasty (c. 1500 B.C.) he had been elevated to be the national god of southern Egypt. This position gave Amen the attributes and characteristics of the most ancient gods, and his name became Amen-Ra, that is, a supreme form of God the Creator. By the 18th Dynasty (1539-1295 B.C.) a college had been established to study Amen-Ra and as a focal point for worship.
Jews settled in Egypt for around 400 years4 from 1847 B.C. and during this sojourn they would certainly have been fully exposed to the worship of Amen-Ra. By the time of their exodus from Egypt in 1447 B.C., the term 'Amen' would be in their language even if it was not their god. It would be a word that had associations with reverence and majesty. This is not difficult to understand. People still talk about Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha, and often use those names completely out of context as expletives. Amen was seen as a powerful god and the name continued, out of context, as an exclamation or salutation; a classic example of language evolution. From the Jews, the word was adopted by Christians, Muslims and others.
So Amen was originally the name of a Pagan god, who was considered a form of God the Creator. But he was certainly not considered God, or Christ. Interestingly, most Pagans today tend not to use the word, preferring instead to say "So mote it be", an old Anglo-Saxon term. Perhaps they see the word Amen in the Bible and the Tanakh and don't want to be associated with Christianity or the like. Indeed, in the Bible we see Jesus Christ referred to as "The Amen". Christ is God's Amen to all that he has spoken. Thereby the name used for an old Egyptian god is replaced by the same name used for Christ.
Like many other words used in religion, (or art, mathematics, medicine, etc) it's easy to believe that our ancestors saw no point in creating new vocabulary when existing and familiar words could be recycled. (The term 'God', for example, has been recycled by most religions.) Yet some people are vehemently protective of things and believe Amen is a Biblical word which is also found in the Tanakh and in Islam, and happens to sound like the name of a Pagan god. Others believe it is an Islamic word that can also be found in the Bible and Tanakh. And so on. The whole issue is hotly debated and any Pagan link denied by many. Who knows how many accidental or deliberate mistranslations have crept in over the centuries.
Nowhere in the Bible, the Tanakh or the Qur'an can we find words to suggest one can be redeemed by merely uttering a magic word.
Whether Amen is magic, rooted in a Pagan deity, originally a Christian word, a Muslim word, a Jewish word, or anything else, the question is the same So what? When Christians, Jews and Muslims say Amen, they do not invoke any god or any power just by saying that word or indeed any other word. Amen does not even make other words more sincere. But Amen, like all the other language we use, helps us to focus on what we mean in our hearts.
And that is the answer to "So what?" What really matters is what is said by the heart.
Your Views are welcomed.
Peace
Interesting. Thanks for that
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I personnaly won't use it anyome, don"t want a hypocrit, just because i like the word AMEEEEN , sounds nice after prayer, also means allah accept our prayer, but than, it's not in the quran, why do I have to inherit something from tradition and reject the rest ?
I believe amen symbolise something , that's why it always creeps through the back door in religions, maybe it's ok, but me? I don't want to be a hypocrit, what will u say to a hadithist if he asks u about it? how did u learn amen? from the bible? the hadith ? found your fathers saying it? it's not in the quranPeace loxbox13
You are right. If you feel it symbolises something other than what it is intended to mean then you have free will not to say it. I personally do not say it, but that does not mean if someone else did I would say do not do it. This is because I can not read their heart, only Allah has that power and He will judge between us all. I have come to accept that people all have different paths, doesn't mean we have to follow. We can only give our view and wish it is the correct view based on our God given faculties to think and varify. It reminds me of a verse from the Quran
4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made
you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another.Peace
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I personnaly won't use it anyome, don"t want a hypocrit, just because i like the word AMEEEEN , sounds nice after prayer, also means allah accept our prayer, but than, it's not in the quran, why do I have to inherit something from tradition and reject the rest ?
I believe amen symbolise something , that's why it always creeps through the back door in religions, maybe it's ok, but me? I don't want to be a hypocrit, what will u say to a hadithist if he asks u about it? how did u learn amen? from the bible? the hadith ? found your fathers saying it? it's not in the quranThere is nothing wrong with tradition, as long as it does not cross Qur'anic boundaries and you fully acknowledge that it is part of the deen. It's like this, in my country, it is a tradition that when shaking hands with someone, you have to use your right hand because it's what's seen as polite. Surely that is not in the Qur'an, and I know it's not part of the deen to shake hands using my right one. I believe that is not wrong to continue the tradition as it doesn't exceed any Qur'anic boundaries.
Personally, I don't mind using the word amen such as when agreeing to my friends, "Amen to to that!" because often times the word amen no longer carries religious connotation, and it has become a universal word that everyone understands. That being said, I do not utter the word when concluding my supplication to God.
Anyway, as the others have said, the word amen can be traced in the Bible.
Salaam.
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hope4
you are right, u know, i been to some forums from sunnah , they call us a new sect, the problem is, what they didn't get, sect of mohamed the messenger of god, sect of allah, is not to be called a sect, the proof, i noticed something amazing, people who follow the quran only, they differ many times in many subjects , some pray 2 times, some pray 3 times, some pray 5 times according to tradition, some think praying is not at all physical at all, and yet, they' re all brothers isn't this amazing, no division because the spirit of the quran is freedom of will and progress in understanding after all, no wonder the prophet and his companions loved each others, no matter how different they were , they are tolerant, most important is to open the mind and learn, that is our DEEN, sunnis and shias and the other sects who follow hadiths hate each other, i know that for a fact, but coran people? only LOVE BABY , love u all, no matter how stupid comments I did before, i always had respectable comments and answers, thak you all -
It's more about intent then what you actually say. I mean look at the etymology of the English language names of planets, days of the week etc etc. We are not supporting polytheism/paganism/whatever by simply saying these names.
Peace
You may find this interesting also
Did you know that the names of our months and week days have their roots in paganism? If numbering the days was good enough for God, why did we change them? Why, if we wanted to name them, were they named in honor of pagan deities? Perhaps because "All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him." (Isaiah 536)
God never told anyone to change His seventh day Sabbath to the first day. Furthermore, His days run from sunset to sunset, not from midnight to midnight
Genesis 15 - 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
He called the days He created, the First Day, the Second Day, etc. He rested on the 7th Day, and even made it one of His Commandments that we do the same!
Genesis 22 - By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Exodus 2011 - " For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 2312 - " Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor so that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves.
However, like everything else, man decided to "do his own thing".
Isaiah 53 - 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.
So,WHY did man decide to name the days of the week (which ended up being named after Pagan gods)? Because, like everything else, Satan made sure that God's commandments were confused and ignored.
Days of the week
The First Day Sunday was named after the Sun god.
The second Day Monday was named after the moon goddess.
The Third Day Tuesday was named after the god Tyr.
The Fourth Day Wednesday was named after the god Odin.
The Fifth Day Thursday was named after the god Thor.
The Sixth Day Friday was named after the goddess Frigga.
The Seventh Day Saturday was named after the god Saturn.
Months
JANUARY
Named for Janus, the Roman mighty one of portals and patron of beginnings and endings, to whom this month was sacred. He is shown as having two faces, one in front, the other at the back of his head, supposedly to symbolize his powers.
FEBRUARY
This name is derived from Februa, a Roman festival of purification. It was originally the month of expiation.
MARCH
It is named for Mars, the Roman mighty one of war.
APRIL
This name comes from the Latin APRILIS, indicating a time of Fertility. It was believed that this month is the month when the earth was supposed to open up for the plants to grow.
MAY
This month was named for Maia, the Roman female deity of growth or increase.
JUNE
This name is sometimes attributed to June, the female mighty one of the marriage, the wife of Jupiter in Roman mythology. She was also called the "Queen of heaven" and " Queen of mighty ones." The name of this month is also attributed to Junius Brutus, but originally it most probably referred to the month in which crops grow to ripeness.
JULY
Named for the Roman emperor Julius Caesar, this is the seventh month of the Gregorian year.
AUGUST
Named for Octavius Augustus Caesar, emperor of Rome; the name was originally from augure, which means, "to increase."
SEPTEMBER
This name is derived from the Latin septem, meaning "seven."
OCTOBER
This name comes from the Latin root octo, meaning "eight."
NOVEMBER
This name is derived from Latin novem, meaning "ninth."
DECEMBER
This name is derived from the Latin decem, meaning "ten."
The Bible says we should not use pagan deity names!
Exodus 2313 and in all things that I have said to you take heed and make no mention of other elohim, neither let it be heard out of your mouth.
Psalms 164 their sorrows shall be multiplied that give gifts to idols Their drink-offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take their names upon my lips.
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hope4
you are right, u know, i been to some forums from sunnah , they call us a new sect, the problem is, what they didn't get, sect of mohamed the messenger of god, sect of allah, is not to be called a sect, the proof, i noticed something amazing, people who follow the quran only, they differ many times in many subjects , some pray 2 times, some pray 3 times, some pray 5 times according to tradition, some think praying is not at all physical at all, and yet, they' re all brothers isn't this amazing, no division because the spirit of the quran is freedom of will and progress in understanding after all, no wonder the prophet and his companions loved each others, no matter how different they were , they are tolerant, most important is to open the mind and learn, that is our DEEN, sunnis and shias and the other sects who follow hadiths hate each other, i know that for a fact, but coran people? only LOVE BABY , love u all, no matter how stupid comments I did before, i always had respectable comments and answers, thak you allPeace loxbox13
I feel tolerance is important for us all to exist in peace. We will always have our differences as you outlined.
Peace
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Ayisha , were they always names day1 day2 etc hw come jumaa? 6th ? or named for jumaa prayer? i heard there is no jumaa prayer or meaning jumaa doesn't have to be on jumaa day, or maybe it's a proof that jumaa prayer exist and has to be on jumaa day ? ,
We can trust a bit of history from the first 3 centuries non ? i know there were writers like tabari , but he inserted the doctrine of the sects in his writings, is it possible to read between lines in hadiths, the way we do in the bible, to come out with the closest history to the true one?
I know hadiths that talks about religion is haram, it's like making another book beside aallah's , but historyi believe it can be treated to get the true and throw the false one, but i guess it has to be done by a real arabaic speaking and history researcher to compare with the history of that 300 years, what do u think ?