Childre of Israel , Media or jerusalem?
-
37.101 So We gave him the good news (Fabashsharnahu) of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
37.112 And We gave him the good news (Wabashsharnahu)of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
And you say both these "good news" relate to one son, Ishaque alahissalm. Thereat I can only suggest to start taking an elementary course in Arabic otherwise you will keep reading Qur'aan with the eye of so called Torah or Jews hadith.
-
What is verse 28.49 saying? What are the 'both these two'?
Mazhar you didn't answer this
Pagan leaders were responded about what they stated and mentioned in 2848
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/028.%20Al%20Qasas/28.49.gif
you, the Messenger ask them, "Then come to me with a book received from Allah which is a better guide than both two of them, I will follow that, if you people are truthful in your assertions to people"This talks about Toraat from Allah given in writing on tablets, it has nothing to do with tales and conjectural myths written by people under the caption/title Torah.
-
Pagan leaders were responded about what they stated and mentioned in 2848
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/028.%20Al%20Qasas/28.49.gif
you, the Messenger ask them, "Then come to me with a book received from Allah which is a better guide than both two of them, I will follow that, if you people are truthful in your assertions to people"This talks about Toraat from Allah given in writing on tablets, it has nothing to do with tales and conjectural myths written by people under the caption/title Torah.
The 2 of them are Torah and Quran and nowhere does it say it is refering to stone tablets but it is clear the Torah was with them then and Muhammed says "Then come to me with a book received from Allah which is a better guide than both two of them." according to your translation. This confirms Torah as a guide as well as Quran and confirms Torah to be a BOOK.
32.23 We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel.
The BOOK of Moses was still around when Muhammed was given Quran and is still around NOW. There is nothing in Quran to say its not and nothing to say what we have now (which is same as we had then) is not Torah. Quran is clearly telling you this is also a guide and there is none better than Torah and Quran.
-
And you say both these "good news" relate to one son, Ishaque alahissalm. Thereat I can only suggest to start taking an elementary course in Arabic otherwise you will keep reading Qur'aan with the eye of so called Torah or Jews hadith.
I am saying all the above relate to that one son Isaac.
If you think otherwise then there are numerous verses telling of the good news of Isaac and only the one you think is about Ishmael is before he was to be sacrificed.
The covenant was with the 'children of Israel' Israel was Jacob who was the son of Isaac.
2.40 O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.29.27 And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation, and We granted him his reward in this life; and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous.
57.26 And We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation and some of them were on right guidance. But many of them became rebellious transgressors.
6.84 We gave him Isaac and Jacob all (three) guided and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron thus do We reward those who do good
The line of prophethood was from Abraham through Isaac through Jacob (Israel).
-
This confirms Torah as a guide as well as Quran and confirms Torah to be a BOOK.
32.23 We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel. Ayisha
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.03c.gif
and/i.e. He had sent Tor'aat and In'jeel,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.04a.gif
in the past times before this Book , as a guide for people;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.04b.gif
And He has since sent The Criterion . -
Quote from Mazhar on Today at 035349 PM
And you say both these "good news" relate to one son, Ishaque alahissalm. Thereat I can only suggest to start taking an elementary course in Arabic otherwise you will keep reading Qur'aan with the eye of so called Torah or Jews hadith.I am saying all the above relate to that one son Isaac.
But how?
-
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.03c.gif
and/i.e. He had sent Tor'aat and In'jeel,
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.04a.gif
in the past times before this Book , as a guide for people;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp09%203.04b.gif
And He has since sent The Criterion .Yes but that does not say that the Torah we have is NOT the Torah does it, which is what you are saying and is not supported by Quran
-
Yes but that does not say that the Torah we have is NOT the Torah does it, which is what you are saying and is not supported by Quran
But what about this, the decisive source!
And He has since sent The Criterion .What is the credibility of so called Torah, is any better than hadith literature? Rather more unreliable and conjectural. And listen about those whom Toraat was given
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013c%20%7Bchange%20from%20its%20place%7D.gif
they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective ;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013f.gif
and they have forgotten a part about which they were reminded
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013b.gif
and you will never cease to to receive information about some treachery on their part except for a few of them .
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013d%20%7Bforgive%20and%20ignore%7D.gif
Therefore divert yourself from them ignoring what they do and leave them .Surat 5 Ayat 13
Why you wish to be with them placing reliance on their stories?
-
But what about this, the decisive source!
And He has since sent The Criterion .The decisive source is what is telling you about the Torah!
What is the credibility of so called Torah, is any better than hadith literature? Rather more unreliable and conjectural. And listen about those whom Toraat was given
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013c%20%7Bchange%20from%20its%20place%7D.gif
they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective ;
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013f.giflayyan bi-alsinatihim, twisting with their tongues, just like sunni do when they say 'take whatever the prophet gives you' means everything in hadith and not the spoils of war that the BOOK says it means! This does not change what's in the BOOK itself though. Torah is only the first 5 books of Old Testament, the other parts are the HADITH on Moses they call the ORAL Torah. ORAL = spoken. The information I am looking at is Torah, not Talmud.
and they have forgotten a part about which they were reminded
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013b.gif
and you will never cease to to receive information about some treachery on their part except for a few of them .
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.013d%20%7Bforgive%20and%20ignore%7D.gif
Therefore divert yourself from them ignoring what they do and leave them .Surat 5 Ayat 13
Why you wish to be with them placing reliance on their stories?
NONE of this is telling you the BOOK is changed but is warning you thay changed what they SAY about it just like the hadith of Muhammed change what Quran actually says.
I am not being with anyone who changes anything that God says, why do you assume the BOOK is changed when Allah clearly tells you it is what they SAY that is incorrect? Obviously the Torah itself is still as is because He also says those that follow IT are right. Just like there are a portion of Jews, Christians and Muslims that change what God said with THEIR tongues does not mean that Quran or Torah themselves have been changed.
-
But what about this, the decisive source!
And He has since sent The Criterion .The decisive source is what is telling you about the Torah!
This is exactly what is told
"they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective;"
-
This is exactly what is told
"they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective;"
That is not telling you about the Torah, that is telling you about the PEOPLE of the Torah.
This is confirming the Torah at the time of Muhammed was original
5.43 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.This is confirming the Torah at the time of Jesus was original
3.50 And confirming to what (is) between my hands from the Torah and to permit/allow for you some (of) what was forbidden on you, and I came to you with a sign/evidence from your Lord, so fear and obey God and obey me.61.6 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
This is showing that those who had the Torah failed it, just as those that have Quran fail it
62.5 The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah and Allah guides not people who do wrong.This speaks for itself
5.68 Say "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.5.44 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses) therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise) they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded that is the achievement supreme.
28.49 Say "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, (Torah and Quran) that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
46.12 And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy And this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.
That is just a few, and all you come up with is "This is exactly what is told
"they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective;""
That is not exactly what is told is it Mazhar, you are like those that sell the truth for a paltry price or hide it.
And I notice you avoided the rest of my post.
-
Quote from Mazhar on Today at 080021 AM
This is exactly what is told"they distort the statement out of its context in a different angle/dimension/perspective;"
That is not telling you about the Torah, that is telling you about the PEOPLE of the Torah.
This is confirming the Torah at the time of Muhammed was original
5.43 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.The very first Ayat you quoted and bolded for deriving a preconceived perception further confirms what I stated earlier in the above quote you mentioned.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.043.gif
And how they accept/appoint you, the Messenger, as Judge when with them is the Tor'aat wherein is written the Command of Allah afterwards despite this Command they turn away,http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.043a.gif
and they are certainly not the believers.Does your so called torah contain this? If not then it is nothing but jew hadith more unreliable that Bukhari's.
-
The very first Ayat you quoted and bolded for deriving a preconceived perception further confirms what I stated earlier in the above quote you mentioned.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.043.gif
And how they accept/appoint you, the Messenger, as Judge when with them is the Tor'aat wherein is written the Command of Allah afterwards despite this Command they turn away,http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.043a.gif
and they are certainly not the believers.But this STILL does not say the Torah is NOT with us and says the SAME as with people who do not believe NOW in Quran = they are NOT BELIEVERS, it says nothing about the Torah NOT being the Torah which is what YOU are trying to say!
-
It seems you are struggling with this Mazhar. You are trying to say that because among the Jews there are unbelievers that its the BOOK that is wrong or changed in some way. The Quran tells you countless times that there are the same with THIS BOOK and there are those that hear the message and still turn away, but that does not mean the BOOK is wrong either does it.
-
The very first Ayat you quoted and bolded for deriving a preconceived perception further confirms what I stated earlier in the above quote you mentioned.
The preconceived perception is yours in thinking that it is the Torah itself which has changed or been corrupted in some way when Quran it very clear it is not and it is the people that didn't follow it or said things that were not in it, just as people do about Quran.
-
The question is this which will tell whether the torah you keep referring is Toraat sent by Allah or human's hand written from their own thoughts.
Does your so called torah contain this? If not then it is nothing but jew hadith more unreliable that Bukhari's.
-
It seems you are struggling with this Mazhar. You are trying to say that because among the Jews there are unbelievers that its the BOOK that is wrong or changed in some way. The Quran tells you countless times that there are the same with THIS BOOK and there are those that hear the message and still turn away, but that does not mean the BOOK is wrong either does it.
Do you believe the Torah we have today is the same as the one given to Moses?
-
The question is this which will tell whether the torah you keep referring is Toraat sent by Allah or human's hand written from their own thoughts.
How do you prove Quran is from Allah and not written by Muhammed from his own thoughts? One good way to check Torah, if you are convinced you have solid proof that Quran is from Allah and not from Muhammeds thoughts, is to look up the stories that Quran refers to in the Torah, there are many.
I have proven to you that the Torah mentioned in Quran was the same one Allah sent to Moses so it was the same one almost 1400 years ago. Your job is to prove it was changed SINCE then. You will find it has not been changed and the Jews that DO believe and DO follow are still following that to this day.
-
Do you believe the Torah we have today is the same as the one given to Moses?
I have just answered that in my post to Mazhar. It was the same up to the time of Muhammed, do you have any proof it has been changed since then?
you have to bear in mind this is the Jews HOLY BOOK, just as Quran is the Muslims HOLY BOOK and the believers among them have taken great pains to keep it from corruption although as with Quran we can stop the book itself being changed we cannot stop those who will 'twist it with their tongues'.
I know many muslims who will not even touch the Arabic Quran until they have done wudu, the Jews do not touch the Torah AT ALL with their hands, a stick of some kind is used to turn the pages.