Unscientific Quran
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Peace be upon you all
This is my copy and paste from an another thread, however i think it deserves a separate thread
During my study of the book i have found it utterly wrong to extract some ?scientific? discoveries or prophecies based on it`s words...
Many times if not always The God narrates through the perspective of the oridinary people or from the perspective of the scientific level of the time of revelation...
If i am to judge Quran scientifically i would rather say that Quran is in contradiction with the science....
For example....
Many people find the embriology described as being scientificaly correct or advance however i really dont understand where they are coming from.....I have studied embriology at the faculty and got the highest grade possible and i would rather said that the embriology of Quran contradicts scientific findings...However the quranic discourse on the embriology has had the few, in my humble opinion, very restricted purposes, if not only one purpose or aim....
It
s intention wasnt to provide detail scientific facts or to give the prophecy of the later scientific findings and thus proves divine origin of the Quran..... but rather to point to the admiring(hence divine) gradual creation of the man through several stages out of a drop up to the perfect creature born... and accordingly Quran is narated from that perspective or angle...Hence, it would be wrong to extract the scientific facts or evidences, or to judge it according to the minute details and subtle findings of the modern embriology since the two could be in contradiction for a sole reason that the creation of the human is described simplisticaly and thus likely incorrect in regards of minute details of the science ....
Remember also the case of zul-Qarnayn...who found the sun setting in the water etc.... there was recently discussion about it....remember how one of the participants abused the fact that the story is narrated from the oridinary man point of view rather than from a scientific angle...and as he claimed, since the story was in contradiction with the science, he refused to believe it and was more prone to believe that the story was a kind of allegory or methaphor...
This could be a subjective perception but, as i see it now, of all the alleged scientific prophecies of the Quran and hence evidences of its origin i come upon in my life, if any, then only few of them could have some merit, the others were merely mistransations, misinterpretations or distortion of the Quran and deviation from its genuine message in order to fit some more pleasant, modern, scientific , in a word, more desirable picture of it.
Best wishes, Zlatan
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This could be a subjective perception but, as i see it now, of all the alleged scientific prophecies of the Quran and hence evidences of its origin i come upon in my life, if any, then only few of them could have some merit, the others were merely mistransations, misinterpretations or distortion of the Quran and deviation from its genuine message in order to fit some more pleasant, modern, scientific , in a word, more desirable picture of it.
Hello Zlatan,
I agree with you on this.
The claim that God is a scientist is same as the argument that goes for God as a cryptologist (code 19), that there are scientific facts in the Koran. God may be a scientist, cryptologist, mathematician etc. but God is not a number or a scientific fact. To derive codes and scientific facts from the Koran or any religious text is misleading because Koran is not a scientific book (or any other scripture for that matter). Koran is a great spiritual work. To view it any other way is to limit its immense spiritual value to humanity.
Regards,
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and the topic of embroyology itself shows that with regards to the bones and muscles .. only recently the research showed that although the cells that create bones and muscles are the same yet the muscle build up does not happen until the bones are formed .. anyways ..I hope you get my point
Khi- This undoubtedly shows tht the Quran does contain established scientific facts n it's is a very good pt u brought up. I hope Zlatan n LT cld recognize this. Im starting 2 believe tht theyr blind as 2 not see these obvious facts. N although it maybe possible 2 derive some good scientific theories using the Quran it is more tht through estbalished scientific facts we can recognize tht the Quran is indeed true n rational unlike other religious scriptures n therefore worthy of following. INFACT THE QURAN IS MORE NATURAL THAN SPIRITUAL. GOD Bless!
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Khi- This undoubtedly shows tht the Quran does contain established scientific facts n it's is a very good pt u brought up. I hope Zlatan n LT cld recognize this. Im starting 2 believe tht theyr blind as 2 not see these obvious facts. N although it maybe possible 2 derive some good scientific theories using the Quran it is more tht through estbalished scientific facts we can recognize tht the Quran is indeed true n rational unlike other religious scriptures n therefore worthy of following. INFACT THE QURAN IS MORE NATURAL THAN SPIRITUAL. GOD Bless!
I am not blind Khizar. Quran is a spiritual work. If you find there are some "scientific" facts in the Quran then thats all well and good. But don't put forward Quran as science. It will undermine its spiritual value. It is the spiritual message in the Quran that you need to understand and make it part of your life. And I think the spiritual message of the scripture is Compassion. It is a guide to cultivating human compassion for others and developing and living with a "God-consciousness". The rest of scripture can be seen as "commentary"...
Regards,
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Peace all,
Just my ?0.02 here, I take it that the Qur'an is neutral towards scientific findings. It may confirm or contradict them (although in some contradiction cases it can be 'explained away' with a change of interpretation). But I can say that while I'm looking at my termites I don't go over the Qur'an and look for scientific clues in there. General advice is there, some possible specific facts also, but those are not what the Qur'an is meant for.
And as far as I know, no Muslim scientist start doing research by looking for specific hypotheses from the Qur'an. Usually the confirmations and apologetics start after somebody discovered something first.
The thing about science is that all things must be falsifiable. To me the Qur'an is not to be falsifiable. I leave it to you to connect the dots together.
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Peace Wakas, all
I would prefer to see the specific examples where people think the reading is contradicting science etc.
From my experience, they eventually get disproven after a bit of research.
And vice versa... so called "scientific" prophecies eventualy get disproven after a bit of research...
However i wasnt claiming that the revelation contradicts the science...I was claiming that it could be led into contradicting it if one is allowed to employ the same manner of analysis or interpretation which is employed in the process of discovering of the "scientific" prophecies in the book...
In both cases, respecting the principles of the understanding of the revelation, those set by the author of the revelation Himself, one can see that the scientific prophecy, as well as, the scientific blunder is clearly not meant, although, strictly linguisticaly spaeaking, both the blunder and the prophecy are among valid interpretations....
it seems to me that in both cases such an intepretation is wrong and a result of ignorance or subjective desire to denie the revelation or to find/invent a proof to its divine authorship....
This is a prevailing pattern in regards of so called "scientific" prophecies of the revelation....though, I repeat there might be some exception to this....
Particularly if one is to understand the science in a broader sense...as all the knowledge acessible to people through all their senses and tools of which some are maybe not recognised by the "official" science....(on the other hand there are some tools of the modern science that are overvalued and their restrictions and incapability of "proving" the creator or his message unrecognised...)...
In this sense i do not question the scientific aspect of the revelation....
best wishes,
Zlatan
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Salam Primanda,
The thing about science is that all things must be falsifiable. To me the Qur'an is not to be falsifiable. I leave it to you to connect the dots together.
Khi- Ur wrong there. Of course the Quran is falsifiable. It gives u the challenge 2 produce one sura like the ones in It. It also says tht if It has been from any other than GOD u wld find in It many contras which we dont find a single except by twisting the meaning which has been proven false over n over again. N as far as my knowledge is concerned the Quran is the ONLY relgious Book in the world which contains these challenges/falsification tests. GOD Bless!
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Salam Primanda,
The thing about science is that all things must be falsifiable. To me the Qur'an is not to be falsifiable. I leave it to you to connect the dots together.
Khi- Ur wrong there. Of course the Quran is falsifiable. It gives u the challenge 2 produce one sura like the ones in It. It also says tht if It has been from any other than GOD u wld find in It many contras which we dont find a single except by twisting the meaning which has been proven false over n over again. N as far as my knowledge is concerned the Quran is the ONLY relgious Book in the world which contains these challenges/falsification tests. GOD Bless!
Thanks for the correction Khizar.
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http//members.aol.com/masadi/sci.htm
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.I have seen many times all these arguments of Mauricie Buccaile, Asadi, Keith Moore etc ....they are NOT SERIOUS , they are very weak and imo cant be called scientific proofs-if not all, then most of their arguments does not hold water....
best wishes
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if not all, then most of their arguments does not hold water....
I say most, not because i believe that some of their examples have merit but because i have not studied all of the examples, particularly not in detail...
First, because of the physical improbability to study them all, they are innumerable and are created on a daily basis...it seems that there is as much of them as there is authors who write about such things...
and the second, because some of them are based rather on the very subtle and highly specialised scientific findings and theories and not upon the undeniable facts observable by anyone-..these findings and their interpretations, or theories based on them, might be disproved in future and are hard to check even for a scientist in the field let alone for a layman like me -and others like me who, unlike myself, believe in such scientific "confirmations"...
best wishes, Zlatan
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The assumption that the civilisations or nations prior to ours or those of Muhamad`s time were astronomicaly or scientificaly undeveloped in a measure that would prevent them from understanding or inventing so called scientific prophecies is highly questionable...if not outright false...
best wishes
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salam Zlatan.
what do u think about the falsification tests in the koran ?salam Saladin!
can you be more specific?
salam zlatan.
i mean , the challanges that the koran gives , that koran challanges to falsify it , do u think it can be falsified too ? like u think the "scientific" stuff is incorrect . -
Peace
I am sorry saladin D but i realy do not understand what exactly your question is about....maybe its my poor english...can you cite some verses to which your question is reffering?
are you asking me could the scripture be imitated or contain contradictions?best wishes, Zlatan
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Peace Zlatan,
It is an interesting point you are making, I think that the great reading should not be put forward as anything but what it claims to be 'a beacon and a mercy for the believers'. You make a great point about the fact that parts are narrated from man's point of view.
Lotetree, I agree that we shouldn't treat the book as a science book or limit it to that, but I cannot ignore some of the interesting findings in the book, the confirmation of tested science, I think these are remarkable.
All that is needed is common sense when reading this great book, this is why we are encouraged to REFLECT upon this message.
Nural
