Your lot in life -- a thought experiment
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The 'concept of sin' thread got me thinking about who we are and the challenges that are put before us. In particular, a verse alalmakt posted
2362 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.
Reminds me of this story I heard once. A boy and his parents visited a poor city in a third world country. The boy was visibly upset over how many poor people there were, particularly poor children. The boy saw a particular poor boy begging for money, and asked his mother, "why do I get food and he doesn't?"
I think it's a key question; one which we all ask ourselves at some point. The basic question of "Why am I me and not someone else?" We're so used to being 'me' that we rarely stop to think, "did it have to be this way?"
Though it's been overused, I've always liked the Teilhard de Chardin quote "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." We are not our physical bodies. Rather, we are souls who use our physical bodies as tools to experience this particular plane of existence. This is made abundantly clear when the qur'an speaks of a life we had before this one (see, e.g. 3372).
So the question naturally arises if we are not just who we are in this particular life, then who are we? And why were we given this particular life? Surely it's not just 'the luck of the draw.'
Speaking personally, I am an Iranian male who was born in the United States to a particular set of parents, with a younger brother. It's absolutely astonishing how much of my life and its various challenges have been dictated by those few simple facts. I was given, and am given, certain luxuries because of my lot in life, much of which was out of my control. I was just born into it. But why? Why wasn't I born, say, into a female body in Bangladesh? Nothing happens for no reason, so we have to assume it relates back to the verse alalmakt posted everyone is given a different set of challenges, based on their lot in life. God does not predestine our lives for us, but I firmly believe He does place each soul into a particular human body, knowing the set of experiences the soul will have to confront at different points in his or her life. The key is in how the soul responds to the experiences.
This isn't just some intellectual exercise. When thinking about these issues, and framing the things that happen to me through this perspective, I've found I'm much more likely to be thoughtful about how I'll approach a particular problem. Whereas before, when some person did something negative to me, I'd get upset and wonder "why me?" now I often think differently. My antennae go up and I think "ah yeah, there's a reason for this; my whole life has been leading up to this point."
I know it sounds hoky but when thinking about your life experience in these terms, instead of cursing those who harm you, you learn to actually thank them for giving you the opportunity for growth. Without those negative roles in your life, you'd have no chance to evolve. You were meant to cross paths, so that they would be blessings in disguise for you.
Maybe, e.g., you were born to particularly harsh parents, who you feel oppress you. Instead of wondering why you got unlucky, sit back and think about the situation as objectively as possible. Why did this happen? Perhaps they personify a test of patience for you. Maybe your particular spiritual growth would be accelerated through patience, through learning to speak up for yourself, through confidence and courage, etc. The point is none of this is just pure dumb luck. People and situations intersect with us, for a reason. Something like who your parents are is obviously an indicator of a much bigger test, than, say, a casual acquaintance. But even that acquaintance may be the personification of some minor test for you.
This is nothing novel of course. The stories of the various prophets in the qur'an display this. The prophets are archetypes, parables of how individuals can react to different life situations. E.g. Job and Solomon are two poles on one spectrum; Solomon was given wealth and power, Job quite the opposite. Both had different routes in life, but both met the challenges and presumably arrived at a similar destination.
Post is already long-winded so I'll just say this. I think it'd be best if we conducted a thorough self-examination, asking ourselves why we are who we are. Why are we born into this particular family, into this specific environment, with this particular human body? There have to be reasons for this. And connecting those dots might just give us that much more of an edge when dealing with the various challenges that befall us.
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Peace CavemanDoctor
Great post Bro.
I agree with your ideas.
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This is nothing novel of course. The stories of the various prophets in the qur'an display this. The prophets are archetypes, parables of how individuals can react to different life situations. E.g. Job and Solomon are two poles on one spectrum; Solomon was given wealth and power, Job quite the opposite. Both had different routes in life, but both met the challenges and presumably arrived at a similar destination.
Post is already long-winded so I'll just say this. I think it'd be best if we conducted a thorough self-examination, asking ourselves why we are who we are. Why are we born into this particular family, into this specific environment, with this particular human body? There have to be reasons for this. And connecting those dots might just give us that much more of an edge when dealing with the various challenges that befall us.
Spidey was told "With great power comes great responsibility." (what a great uncle he had)
No, not "responsibility" as a burden, but "response-ability" as a chance. And to think that what it can bear has a lot to do with what it is willing to bear, in accordance to its "response-ability" (as also implied in the verse being discussed), it will always be interesting, no, fascinating, to try to link our past and present into the future.
The prophets, don't you think that it was their own choice to live the way they lived? Cos i just can never imagine them being dragged into the scene. Also, i just can't imagine them living in suffering all their life. Quite the opposite i think. They must have been the happiest men to ever live on earth.
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Salam,
Wonderful post! hail
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hey don't hail CD like that, bet he wouldn't fancy being served like an idol, even though his avatar looks like one
whatever you want to blabber about.....
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I don't take anyone as Idol!!!!!!.....It's kind of salute you see.
Gosh!!! Things are soooo wrong when I do something! brickwall
Yeah sis, i'd like to share the joy of my acute self-criticism sometimes, so you're welcome, anytime yay
P.S. hey you quickly redo your post again that's not nice
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Thanks for the thoughts.
Most definitely we are souls placed in bodies to fulfil our roles/deeds. We have no choice in how we look, which family we get placed in etc.. all part of the test.
that verse 3372 is kinda interesting it makes me wonder.. we bore that trust and we're known as unjust and ignorant. is the unjustness to ourselves? that we choose to have that free will, that self conscious to decide how to be.. inevitably it is like we serve ourselves towards good or towards bad every action has its ramifications from simple to complex.
why me isn't necessarily bad in ways it's kinda cool besides feeling a lil abnormal or weird makes me feel i have a purpose it's me for a reason
I remember a story.. i dunno if it's some old arab wives tale or some hadith but anyway i wanna share it. it's about an ant and a human. A human captures this healthy ant and puts it in a container/box. He finds out that in a whole year it eats 1 cube of sugar (i think it was sugar might have been something else). anyway so this human gets a cube of sugar and puts in with the ant to see if this experiment is true whether the ant can get sustained or will it die etc. a year later the human checks on the ant and notices that the cube is half eaten the ant is not as healthy but still living fine. The human says "ah huh! you don't need 1 cube to sustain yourself all you needed was half". The ant replies "it's true that i can survive on half the sugar but i did this because you're not The Sustainer if i ate all the cube in the year and you forgot me i wouldn't have been able to survive, whereas The Sustainer leaves me to roam and never forgets any of his creatures." so the human releases the ant realising there is wisdom in what it says.
We're free to roam, free to be under circumstances of me whatever your background. God blesses us in ways were unaware, others set limits without realising the will we have been given. Could we be unjust by setting unnecessarily limits? Is it due to our ignorance? maybe.
peace )
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CavemanDoctor...Incredible! I was asking someone the same question last night....Do you think about who you would be today if you were born under different circumstances? I did not get to talk about it too much as it was late, but I do wonder about the differences where people start off in life and how they weave through all their experiences.
Personally, I am who I am because of not so much the good times (maybe a little), but because of the trying times. They moulded me and although the process is continuous, I have also learnt to appreciate that these are opportunities for us to shine.
So put on your shades folks...Maisha is in the house!
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Yeah sis, i'd like to share the joy of my acute self-criticism sometimes, so you're welcome, anytime yay
P.S. hey you quickly redo your post again that's not nice
not nice????? I thought those sentence I wrote earlier was not nice....so I changed them.
Anyway, cut it off san, we are out of topic. We'll fight another day!
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I agree with CD. The toughest part however is when you're doing everything that you can do and expending effort etc and nothing changes, it may even get worse and stay that way indefinitely. That period of time has to be the darkest, not just in terms of having patience but also confusion and doubt. When things are clear regardless of how bad the situation is, it's easier to deal with rationally, you know what to do even if you don't do it, maybe emotions would be more problematic. Anyways.
But why? Why wasn't I born, say, into a female body in Bangladesh?
Didn't go very far geographically I'd say. I'd sometimes ask why wasn't I a Viking Raider pillaging all I see and the answer was evident. -
Peace All
This is a thought provoking thread.
My thoughts are are that regardless of the circumstances we are born into, anyone who has access to the Quranic message has a duty to bring about the equalization of these circumstances to the best of their ability. The upliftment of humankind is the purpose of life in my understanding. God has created us in order to serve Him. He has promised that the means of sustaining life will be made available by Him. He does not make this available individually, but collectively. It is up to us to ensure the equitable distribution of resources. Therefore, in my opinion, we serve Him by serving humankind.
"Why do I get food and he doesn't?" I would answer this by saying that we have not ensured the equal opportunity for him or his parents or his community, etc. to have the same right to life as us or our parents or our community, etc. We sometimes get caught up in the question of why these differences exist, applying individual solutions to societal problems and as a results treat everything symptomatically rather than treating the root cause.
It is not always a matter of celebrating the difference, sometimes there is a need to change the circumstance in order that there is no difference (I don't mean robotic society).
savage carrot wrote
The toughest part however is when you're doing everything that you can do and expending effort etc and nothing changes, it may even get worse and stay that way indefinitely.
I think that the reason for this is because we sometimes tend to view things too much on an individual level. For me, there are a set of laws put into play by God. Adherence to these laws produce results in accordance with these laws. I also think that the Quran puts forward that adherence to the laws bring about a happier, more peaceful society. However, an individual living in accordance with the laws may not find these results because those around him may not have the same respect for these laws. The positive effects of these laws are functional at a societal level, rather than an individual level. We can only effect real change as a community, not as an individual.
Enough of my rambling. I'll just say this. As long as we view Islam (in its practical, revolutionary sense) as the personal relationship between the individual and God, societal change cannot take place. We must indeed start with ourselves, but if we never surrender our WANTS / DESIRES to the NEEDS of the community (first small, then the larger and larger community) around us, we cannot enjoy the fruits of the Quran as did the community of Jonah (109. They enjoyed this because they accepted the message as an entire community rather than fragmented pockets of individuals within a larger community.
And YES, I am continuously accused of being a communist/socialist, but Islam is my deen.
Imraan
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savage carrot wrote
I think that the reason for this is because we sometimes tend to view things too much on an individual level. For me, there are a set of laws put into play by God. Adherence to these laws produce results in accordance with these laws. I also think that the Quran puts forward that adherence to the laws bring about a happier, more peaceful society. However, an individual living in accordance with the laws may not find these results because those around him may not have the same respect for these laws. The positive effects of these laws are functional at a societal level, rather than an individual level. We can only effect real change as a community, not as an individual.Interesting way of looking at it. I would agree. My example was on a personal level rather than a societal level and I suppose both are connected at one/multiple points.
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Interesting discussion.
I think this verse is relevant and I am finding it more and more relevant as I progress in years.548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and if God had willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute
The Quran does not fragment communities, it trains individuals who are able to reform and better a community in my opinion.
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this thread is fortunately exactly what i needed right now..thanks CD
the general gist im getting is that God will judge evryone according to the circumstances and opportunities in this life....but a puzzling thing is that yes, hardships in life can be seen as something that God tests us with and gives us a chance to learn and grow from as well..i agree a hundred percent..but with physical and mental debilitations...i just have a hard time thinking that God can make people go through such agony in this life..that even things like lying down..eating...even breathing can hurt...its hard believing that that could be from God... maybe the hardships we face in life are from us as well..if not as a result of our actions in this life then probably in the life we had before this...sometimes we go through tough times because we choose something wrong that leads us to it...well id say most of the times..and thats fair..because WE brought it upon ourselves...but with severe physical and mental handicaps (ones that arethere from birth, not acquired through our actions) there should be another logic around, other than God putting it as a test for those people. maybe thats what our souls earned in the life before?
i know christianity's answer... these sicknesses etc are there as a result of our inherited ability to sin. our sins have brought this upon us. i am actually leaning to that explanation currently, since i have trouble viewing such horrible diseases from God the Just and the Merciful..
and we cant deny that humans sin a LOT.. we are, as the quran mentions, transgressing and ignorant...even the angels knew that we would cause corruption..and God didnt deny that we would, he just said that i know stuff you dont.....so i do think that the human race's capacity to sin has brought upon these afflictions, and not God the Most Merciful...
i would love hearing all of your views on this as well...may God guide me towards the Truth. -
This is very inspiring thread.
What I have observed is that creation desn't care about pilfering. God may decide that we "waste our whole life fighting battles that we will never win. Should we not fight them. We may find our whole life wasted as workers, when we realise nobody is interested in having a job well done in what we do, or in social battles, when we see that nobody respets the struggle or even ridicules it... God can afford everything to go wasted. God does not need us for anything. Nor needs the world for anything, but... bothers to send us revelations... To each of us sends a revelation... like the brother who started said, we realise our life is for ourselves, so that we realise real reality. The life in the world is like a dream, we get insights, but is not the real life. It may give us a hint as to what the real life is about. It is an ordeal at times, and at teams a pleasant dream... And it is difficult, may be not always hard, but difficult. Bcause we do not know... We know so, so little, and we can so, so little...
But may be we learn to put ourselves were in fact we are whatever we do, in God's hands, and trust Him... and ask for His forgiveness... to make our dream whatever He wants it to be...
Salaam