Muslims and non-muslims
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You might find this article interesting
http//www.free-minds.org/node/10Wakas, you post some realy cool stuff. This is one of the nicest way of reasoning that I have seen. I must admit that at times I have doubts about any religion including Islam and then I will come acros something like this what you posted and the faith slowly comes back.
Thanks
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Rana
Before your question gets lost in mumin versus muslim, I would like to ask you something. Your initial question was what the difference between a muslim and non-muslim, and the people in the mosque concluded that they do good deeds and soforth in order to get closer to jannah.
I don't really get it....I am a muslim but I when I do good deeds I don't expect a reward for it......I do it because that is what Allah has taught me, that's it......I am not trying to be a good father to my kids because I want to be rewarded, I am doing it because I want my kids to feel safe and loved and hopefully they will become better than me.
Dear God, I have been good all my life and done what you taught me, now give me my reward???? Very strange concept, this idea that we should expect something...
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Dear God, I have been good all my life and done what you taught me, now give me my reward???? Very strange concept, this idea that we should expect something...
Peace Emil, All
Not so strange for the god the just the giver.
6160-165 (FM translation)
Whoever comes with a good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.
Say My Lord has guided me to a straight path, an upright system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.
Say My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.
He has no partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.
Say Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything? And every soul earns what is for it, and none will carry the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in.
And He is the One who made you inheritors on the earth, and He raised some of you over others in grades, to test you with what He had given you. Your Lord is swift to punishment, and He is Forgiving, Merciful. -
Peace Emil, All
Not so strange for the god the just the giver.
6160-165 (FM translation)
Whoever comes with a good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.
Say My Lord has guided me to a straight path, an upright system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.
Say My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.
He has no partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.
Say Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything? And every soul earns what is for it, and none will carry the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in.
And He is the One who made you inheritors on the earth, and He raised some of you over others in grades, to test you with what He had given you. Your Lord is swift to punishment, and He is Forgiving, Merciful.Yes, I know. But would you expect the giver to give?
Someone, the key word is expect...I do not do things because I want something in return, I do it because that is what Allah has taught me, hopefully I got it right. If He does not think my good deeds are good, then I will not be disappointed. He is the Wise, the All knower.
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Yes, I know. But would you expect the giver to give?
Someone, the key word is expect...I do not do things because I want something in return, I do it because that is what Allah has taught me, hopefully I got it right. If He does not think my good deeds are good, then I will not be disappointed. He is the Wise, the All knower.
agreed. if we just do good deeds because we expect a reward from God in thehereafter, then, for me atleast, its less meaningful than doing good because you want to live your life the way your creator wanted you to live it..to make Him happy....a bit like you would love someone and do evrything for them because you WANT to , not because you expect something from them in return.
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agreed. if we just do good deeds because we expect a reward from God in thehereafter, then, for me atleast, its less meaningful than doing good because you want to live your life the way your creator wanted you to live it..to make Him happy....a bit like you would love someone and do evrything for them because you WANT to , not because you expect something from them in return.
...because you already know that the "doing" itself will surely make you happy and you just can't not do it? )
Yes, I know. But would you expect the giver to give?
yes actually, not only that i do expect, but i know for sure that the Giver gives. Present tense being the key. And whenever i don't feel like i'm catching what He gives, then's the time for me to look for it.
Just for a moment... let go of this 'distant' feature of the so-called Hereafter heaven, and imagine that heaven has already begun... could you do that please? (or a tip from Sirius i dare you to do that!) and try to view AQ in this frame.
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I supose you would have to believe in Abrahamic God in order to go to heaven. It can't be any other God!
Would I be right to say that?
Thanks
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Well, I supose I would like to work out what the Quran says not what would think it is.
So acording to the Quran at 262 says Surely those who believe , and those who are the Jews and the Nazarines, and the Sabians. WHOEVER OF THEM believes in God and the last day and does good work, they will have recmpense from their Lord and there is no fear upon them nor will they grieve.
From looking at were it says whoever of them I have come to the conclusion that is has to be Abrahamic God not our own version of Him. I supose it says that Jesus is not son God so you can't be that Christian who believes that Jesus is his son.
This is my understanding of the verses anyone agree/disagree? I am alway open for considering new views!
Thanks
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By Abrahamic God I meant God of the Muslims , Jews and Christians(true Jews and Christians)and all other monotheists who existed prior to them. Not just any God. Since there are people who believe in God but not in the Muslim Christian or Jewish God wich is I would say because of all the coruption of these faiths.
Not many people know about the Quran alone Islam I think, I am just guesing! So what they see is what I believe the corupted versions of it.
Yeah, but thats what I mean by Abrahamic religions.
I think trhat I am making sense!
Thanks
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yes actually, not only that i do expect, but i know for sure that the Giver gives. Present tense being the key. And whenever i don't feel like i'm catching what He gives, then's the time for me to look for it.
Dear San
We are not talking about the same thing (I think).
Let me ask you a question. If you were to help a homeless man to a nice hot meal, what is your intention? What do you want for being so nice? What is your price?
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Dear San
We are not talking about the same thing (I think).
Let me ask you a question. If you were to help a homeless man to a nice hot meal, what is your intention? What do you want for being so nice? What is your price?
Dear Emil,
For me, the sole intention, "want", and "price", is just to get the feel, like i craved for it. That's all.
It's either living or dying inside, and the state keeps changing so i better keep flowing above the surface.
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Dear Emil,
For me, the sole intention, "want", and "price", is just to get the feel, like i craved for it. That's all.
It's either living or dying inside, and the state keeps changing so i better keep flowing above the surface.
?qu? quieres decir con eso? I think we are talking about the same thing but in different words, or we are not at all talking about the same thing...I don't know...The only thing I know is that when I do something good or help someone I don't have a hidden agenda. I do not do it because Allah will be pleased with me and will reward me, I do not do it because I want a favour later, I do it because that is what Allah wants...I cannot judge if I am to be rewarded or not, that is Allah that does that, so whatever He chooses to do, I will be ok with it.
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?qu? quieres decir con eso? I think we are talking about the same thing but in different words, or we are not at all talking about the same thing...I don't know...The only thing I know is that when I do something good or help someone I don't have a hidden agenda. I do not do it because Allah will be pleased with me and will reward me, I do not do it because I want a favour later, I do it because that is what Allah wants...I cannot judge if I am to be rewarded or not, that is Allah that does that, so whatever He chooses to do, I will be ok with it.
Yeah, we're along the same line. I'm only saying that, you, doing something good, is the way Allah gives more to you, in the present. Allah wants only the best for you, right? And how do you know if this is what Allah wants, other than by experiencing the best thing itself? The "feel" that i referenced is just one word, it means nothing. But the true experience of doing the best thing which Allah wants for you, is everything.
That's why i put emphasize on "present". I totally agree with your last sentence. Instead of worrying/wishing for something to come, why not enjoy the moment in the present? Because the indescribable experience is what keeps it alive in us (doing good/best ~ following Allah) isn't it? The heaven is right here, whenever we want to and ready for it.
Just thought and hoped it would add something to the discussion.
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Yes, I know. But would you expect the giver to give?
Someone, the key word is expect...I do not do things because I want something in return, I do it because that is what Allah has taught me, hopefully I got it right. If He does not think my good deeds are good, then I will not be disappointed. He is the Wise, the All knower.
Peace Emil,
I guess everyone of us have experimented doing good and bad deeds, and we know what outcome (either good or bad) we get in return in each case. Would it be normal to expect bad for a good action, in a just test?
The least that you get from a good deed is the good feeling. I know that type of "wrong sense of guilt" we feel when expecting a return from a good action, but this is how the god made the system, and we shouldn't be ashamed of such expectations. Like a farmer expecting a good harvest after a good year of work.
This is the law of causality into play, nothing magical about it. And we sure get a return for any and every action we make, in this life and the next by the god's will.
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Just for a moment... let go of this 'distant' feature of the so-called Hereafter heaven, and imagine that heaven has already begun... could you do that please? (or a tip from Sirius i dare you to do that!) and try to view AQ in this frame.
Peace San,
I see what you mean, and I agree.
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Peace Emil,
I guess everyone of us have experimented doing good and bad deeds, and we know what outcome (either good or bad) we get in return in each case. Would it be normal to expect bad for a good action, in a just test?
The least that you get from a good deed is the good feeling. I know that type of "wrong sense of guilt" we feel when expecting a return from a good action, but this is how the god made the system, and we shouldn't be ashamed of such expectations. Like a farmer expecting a good harvest after a good year of work.
This is the law of causality into play, nothing magical about it. And we sure get a return for any and every action we make, in this life and the next by the god's will.
Well I guess that I am pretty alone in not expecting any reward from Allah for my good deeds.....I believe my reward or punishment will be given on judgement day, when that day comes I will accept Allah's judgement. Nor do I believe that I receive punishment or reward in this life..
Maybe I am wrong, but I never believed in the phrase "God willing"......I don't believe that things happen because God is willing to let it happen. It just happens because of Allah wants it that way and not a million good or bad deeds or no matter how many prayers we say will change the way that Allah has decided. We cannot influence Him.....We can only screw up his decisions by following another path than what He intended.....If we screw things up or if we get it right will not change our position in this mortal life, our life will not become worse or better.
My sister is paralyzed from the waist down......On a school trip to Egypt a man (yes, he was muslim) approached her and told her that she must have done something terribly wrong for Allah to punish her that much.....
What kind of God is that? Not my God....
