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  4. Proof Qur'an-alone is Error

Proof Qur'an-alone is Error

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  • J Offline
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    jonny_k
    wrote on last edited by
    #148

    Peace "Badr",

    but in arabic it is different ask those who know arabic. I would understand alot of your arguments (without necessarely agreeing) but for this point it is total stubborness and your explanation is very forced to twist the real meaning.

    JK- Do you agree that the word "KhUmr" can mean "head cover"? NEXT i told you one can read the word spelled "kha-meem-ra" in the Quran as "KhUmr" instead of "KhAmr". Get it? GOD Bless!

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    • J Offline
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      jonny_k
      wrote on last edited by
      #149

      Peace "Badr",

      "And We send down of the Qur'an that which is healing and mercy for the believers" 1782

      The prophet was healing sicknesses with certain verses from the Quran by performing a certain ritual wich is called Roqia, you are missing that by not following what he said. I personnaly tried it and it is miraculous indeed.

      JK- 1st for the 2nd part, the hadith you mention, we have no evidence whatsoever. 2nd healing above could be understood as a healing of the soul and yes also the healing of society from corruption, theft, murder , injustice, etc. GOD Bless!

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        mmkhan
        wrote on last edited by
        #150

        The prophet was healing sicknesses with certain verses from the Quran by performing a certain ritual wich is called Roqia, you are missing that by not following what he said. I personnaly tried it and it is miraculous indeed.

        1331

        1331 And if a Quran/Reading were to be used to move mountains, or to slice the earth, or the dead were spoken to with it. Indeed, to Allah are all matters. Did not those who have believed know that if Allah had wished He would have guided all the people? As for those who reject, they continue to be stricken with disaster or it comes near to their homes, until the promise of Allah comes true. Allah does not break the appointment.

        May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
        Mohammed M. Khan

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          Badr
          wrote on last edited by
          #151

          Peace "Badr",

          2nd healing above could be understood as a healing of the soul and yes also the healing of society from corruption, theft, murder , injustice, etc. GOD Bless!

          This is more than obvious, you don't have to mention at all the spiritual healing and the community healing because of what we can agree on from the psychological releaf of following the truth and all but have you considered that it could be a physical healing as well ? There are proofs and experiences by alot of people but the skeptical person that you are wouldnt believe a "blind follower" and you miss alot from the benefits you can gain from the Quran on the medicinal level.

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            mmkhan
            wrote on last edited by
            #152

            Salaam brother Jonny_k,

            Ok I see the term "msukur(root Siin-Kaf-Ra)" being used there which basically can mean the same and also has a variety of meanings like

            5339 - - - "

            The word used in the Hadith quoted is "Khamrun" NOT "msukur"

            May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and help us all from Evil.
            Mohammed M. Khan

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              Badr
              wrote on last edited by
              #153

              1331

              1331 And if a Quran/Reading were to be used to move mountains, or to slice the earth, or the dead were spoken to with it. Indeed, to Allah are all matters. Did not those who have believed know that if Allah had wished He would have guided all the people? As for those who reject, they continue to be stricken with disaster or it comes near to their homes, until the promise of Allah comes true. Allah does not break the appointment.

              May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
              Mohammed M. Khan

              What's your point ?

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                Badr
                wrote on last edited by
                #154

                Salaam brother Jonny_k,

                5339 - - - "

                The word used in the Hadith quoted is "Khamrun" NOT "msukur"

                May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and help us all from Evil.
                Mohammed M. Khan

                please avoid ridiculising yourself like this (what's the highlighted word ?)

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                • J Offline
                  J Offline
                  jonny_k
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #155

                  Peace "Badr",

                  This is more than obvious, you don't have to mention at all the spiritual healing and the community healing because of what we can agree on from the psychological releaf of following the truth and all but have you considered that it could be a physical healing as well ? There are proofs and experiences by alot of people but the skeptical person that you are wouldnt believe a "blind follower" and you miss alot from the benefits you can gain from the Quran on the medicinal level.

                  JK- There is a lot of "proof" amongst the Christian community that they've witnessed Jesus and he's healed them of cancer and many other kinds of dieases all in the name of Jesus. Should I believe that too? Every rellgion makes these claims of supernatural healing/faith healing. Never has it been shown to be true under a scientific controlled setup. So how can I just believe somehting without this actual and independent evidence? GOD Bless!

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                  • J Offline
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                    jonny_k
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #156

                    Peace bro "Mmkhan",

                    Salaam brother Jonny_k,

                    5339 - - - "

                    The word used in the Hadith quoted is "Khamrun" NOT "msukur"

                    May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and help us all from Evil.
                    Mohammed M. Khan

                    JK- look at the word before the 1st "khamrun" i.e. "miim-siin-kaaf-ra". It says "all MSKR is KHMR and (then again) all KHMR is HARAAM. GOD Bless!

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                      mmkhan
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #157

                      please avoid ridiculising yourself like this (what's the highlighted word ?)

                      Oops! I am sorry... I took it wrong. Your hadith translated "Khamrun" as "Wine", I checked it.

                      Thanks anyway for correction.

                      Mohammed M. Khan

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                        Badr
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #158

                        Peace "Badr",

                        JK- There is a lot of "proof" amongst the Christian community that they've witnessed Jesus and he's healed them of cancer and many other kinds of dieases all in the name of Jesus. Should I believe that too?

                        Are you talking about nowerdays or in the time of Jesus ?

                        Every rellgion makes these claims of supernatural healing/faith healing. Never has it been shown to be true under a scientific controlled setup. So how can I just believe somehting without this actual and independent evidence? GOD Bless!

                        Because you believe in the Quran and that it said so.

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                          Badr
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #159

                          Oops! I am sorry... I took it wrong. Your hadith translated "Khamrun" as "Wine", I checked it.

                          Thanks anyway for correction.

                          Mohammed M. Khan

                          You're welcome.

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                          • J Offline
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                            jonny_k
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #160

                            Peace "Badr",

                            Are you talking about nowerdays or in the time of Jesus ?

                            JK- Nowadays. Didnt you know how "in" faith healing is especially in the US? If not look it up.

                            Because you believe in the Quran and that it said so.

                            JK- I don't believe it does in the sense you understand it from hadith. GOD Bless!

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                              Badr
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #161

                              Peace "Badr",

                              JK- Nowadays. Didnt you know how "in" faith healing is especially in the US? If not look it up.

                              I will.

                              JK- I don't believe it does in the sense you understand it from hadith. GOD Bless!

                              from the Quran Shiin-Fa-Ya = to cure, quench, restore to health. shifa - recovery, remedy, healing.

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                              • J Offline
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                                jonny_k
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #162

                                Peace "Badr"

                                I will.

                                JK- I don't believe it does in the sense you understand it from hadith. GOD Bless!

                                from the Quran Shiin-Fa-Ya = to cure, quench, restore to health. shifa - recovery, remedy, healing.

                                JK- But this can just as well be understood as spiritual remedy or societal remedy or even learning about GOD's world and deriving medicine to cure diseases therefrom BUT NOT necessarily remedy via supernatural faith healing. GOD Bless!

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                                • J Offline
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                                  jonny_k
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #163

                                  Peace again "Badr",

                                  Btw you still didn't reply to this and I consider this important. EVEN IF you insist that there is a differnce between the meanings of "khAmr" and "khUmr" in general, I told you in Quran the maximum we have are letters NOT vowel marks. So we could read the relevant term "khamr" as well as "khUmr". GOD Bless!

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                                    Badr
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #164

                                    Peace "Badr"

                                    JK- But this can just as well be understood as spiritual remedy or societal remedy or even learning about GOD's world and deriving medicine to cure diseases therefrom BUT NOT necessarily remedy via supernatural faith healing. GOD Bless!

                                    But this can not also as the primal signification is clear, you leave the first degree understanding to look for another meaning while you risk to miss the true one.

                                    God states it clearly And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing for the believers

                                    like There comes forth from within it a beverage of many colours, in which there is healing for men;

                                    You understand these verses differently ?

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                                      Badr
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #165

                                      Peace again "Badr",

                                      Btw you still didn't reply to this and I consider this important. EVEN IF you insist that there is a differnce between the meanings of "khAmr" and "khUmr" in general, I told you in Quran the maximum we have are letters NOT vowel marks. So we could read the relevant term "khamr" as well as "khUmr". GOD Bless!

                                      What is the definition of khUmr according to you ?

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                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        jonny_k
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #166

                                        Peace "BAdr",

                                        But this can not also as the primal signification is clear, you leave the first degree understanding to look for another meaning while you risk to miss the true one.

                                        JK- Where does it say that it primarily means what you say and as i said EVEN IF IT DOES it doesnt have to be direct but can be achieved by following the system laid out in the Quran. In that sense itd be physical just not as direct as you are claiming it.

                                        God states it clearly And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing for the believers

                                        like There comes forth from within it a beverage of many colours, in which there is healing for men;

                                        You understand these verses differently ?

                                        JK- As far as I'm aware even hadith followers don't insist that the first means physical direct healing via recitation. It all depedns on the context in which the word is used. This is so common. Like in sura 1 (yaumi deen) doies not mean "day of religion" whilst in other verses the same word is translated as such. Another example would be the word "daraba". You can have physical "daraba" as well as "daraba with mithaal" in which case it means symbolically to give/layout an example. GOD Bless!

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                                        • J Offline
                                          J Offline
                                          jonny_k
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #167

                                          Peace "Badr",

                                          What is the definition of khUmr according to you ?

                                          JK- Head cover/simply a cover/something that covers the head/mind. GOD bless!

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