Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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Salaam brother Jonny_k,
Ok I see the term "msukur(root Siin-Kaf-Ra)" being used there which basically can mean the same and also has a variety of meanings like
5339 - - - "
The word used in the Hadith quoted is "Khamrun" NOT "msukur"
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and help us all from Evil.
Mohammed M. Khan -
1331
1331 And if a Quran/Reading were to be used to move mountains, or to slice the earth, or the dead were spoken to with it. Indeed, to Allah are all matters. Did not those who have believed know that if Allah had wished He would have guided all the people? As for those who reject, they continue to be stricken with disaster or it comes near to their homes, until the promise of Allah comes true. Allah does not break the appointment.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. KhanWhat's your point ?
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Salaam brother Jonny_k,
5339 - - - "
The word used in the Hadith quoted is "Khamrun" NOT "msukur"
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and help us all from Evil.
Mohammed M. Khanplease avoid ridiculising yourself like this (what's the highlighted word ?)
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Peace "Badr",
This is more than obvious, you don't have to mention at all the spiritual healing and the community healing because of what we can agree on from the psychological releaf of following the truth and all but have you considered that it could be a physical healing as well ? There are proofs and experiences by alot of people but the skeptical person that you are wouldnt believe a "blind follower" and you miss alot from the benefits you can gain from the Quran on the medicinal level.
JK- There is a lot of "proof" amongst the Christian community that they've witnessed Jesus and he's healed them of cancer and many other kinds of dieases all in the name of Jesus. Should I believe that too? Every rellgion makes these claims of supernatural healing/faith healing. Never has it been shown to be true under a scientific controlled setup. So how can I just believe somehting without this actual and independent evidence? GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "Mmkhan",
Salaam brother Jonny_k,
5339 - - - "
The word used in the Hadith quoted is "Khamrun" NOT "msukur"
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and help us all from Evil.
Mohammed M. KhanJK- look at the word before the 1st "khamrun" i.e. "miim-siin-kaaf-ra". It says "all MSKR is KHMR and (then again) all KHMR is HARAAM. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- There is a lot of "proof" amongst the Christian community that they've witnessed Jesus and he's healed them of cancer and many other kinds of dieases all in the name of Jesus. Should I believe that too?
Are you talking about nowerdays or in the time of Jesus ?
Every rellgion makes these claims of supernatural healing/faith healing. Never has it been shown to be true under a scientific controlled setup. So how can I just believe somehting without this actual and independent evidence? GOD Bless!
Because you believe in the Quran and that it said so.
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Peace "Badr",
Are you talking about nowerdays or in the time of Jesus ?
JK- Nowadays. Didnt you know how "in" faith healing is especially in the US? If not look it up.
Because you believe in the Quran and that it said so.
JK- I don't believe it does in the sense you understand it from hadith. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- Nowadays. Didnt you know how "in" faith healing is especially in the US? If not look it up.
I will.
JK- I don't believe it does in the sense you understand it from hadith. GOD Bless!
from the Quran Shiin-Fa-Ya = to cure, quench, restore to health. shifa - recovery, remedy, healing.
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Peace "Badr"
I will.
JK- I don't believe it does in the sense you understand it from hadith. GOD Bless!
from the Quran Shiin-Fa-Ya = to cure, quench, restore to health. shifa - recovery, remedy, healing.
JK- But this can just as well be understood as spiritual remedy or societal remedy or even learning about GOD's world and deriving medicine to cure diseases therefrom BUT NOT necessarily remedy via supernatural faith healing. GOD Bless!
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Peace again "Badr",
Btw you still didn't reply to this and I consider this important. EVEN IF you insist that there is a differnce between the meanings of "khAmr" and "khUmr" in general, I told you in Quran the maximum we have are letters NOT vowel marks. So we could read the relevant term "khamr" as well as "khUmr". GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr"
JK- But this can just as well be understood as spiritual remedy or societal remedy or even learning about GOD's world and deriving medicine to cure diseases therefrom BUT NOT necessarily remedy via supernatural faith healing. GOD Bless!
But this can not also as the primal signification is clear, you leave the first degree understanding to look for another meaning while you risk to miss the true one.
God states it clearly And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing for the believers
like There comes forth from within it a beverage of many colours, in which there is healing for men;
You understand these verses differently ?
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Peace again "Badr",
Btw you still didn't reply to this and I consider this important. EVEN IF you insist that there is a differnce between the meanings of "khAmr" and "khUmr" in general, I told you in Quran the maximum we have are letters NOT vowel marks. So we could read the relevant term "khamr" as well as "khUmr". GOD Bless!
What is the definition of khUmr according to you ?
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Peace "BAdr",
But this can not also as the primal signification is clear, you leave the first degree understanding to look for another meaning while you risk to miss the true one.
JK- Where does it say that it primarily means what you say and as i said EVEN IF IT DOES it doesnt have to be direct but can be achieved by following the system laid out in the Quran. In that sense itd be physical just not as direct as you are claiming it.
God states it clearly And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing for the believers
like There comes forth from within it a beverage of many colours, in which there is healing for men;
You understand these verses differently ?
JK- As far as I'm aware even hadith followers don't insist that the first means physical direct healing via recitation. It all depedns on the context in which the word is used. This is so common. Like in sura 1 (yaumi deen) doies not mean "day of religion" whilst in other verses the same word is translated as such. Another example would be the word "daraba". You can have physical "daraba" as well as "daraba with mithaal" in which case it means symbolically to give/layout an example. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- Head cover/simply a cover/something that covers the head/mind. GOD bless!
So xhen the prophet says "drink wine" he means drink a "head cover" ?
Book 023, Number 4956 (muslim) 'A'isha reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about Bit, whereupon he said Every drink that causes intoxication is forbidden.
or also in muslim
5331 - " " .
"Every intoxicant drink is forbidden"
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So xhen the prophet says "drink wine" he means drink a "head cover" ?
Book 023, Number 4956 (muslim) 'A'isha reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about Bit, whereupon he said Every drink that causes intoxication is forbidden.
or also in muslim
5331 - " " .
"Every intoxicant drink is forbidden"
which brings us back to reply 106 and 108
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Peace "Badr",
So xhen the prophet says "drink wine" he means drink a "head cover" ?
Book 023, Number 4956 (muslim) 'A'isha reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about Bit, whereupon he said Every drink that causes intoxication is forbidden.
or also in muslim
5331 - " " .
"Every intoxicant drink is forbidden"
JK- Just because you find a word spelled "kha-miim-ra" in two instances does NOT mean it cannot be read "khamr" in one and "khUmr" in another context. In context of that hadith it is probably makes more sense to use "khamr" cause of of the word "sukur" already used before it which means "that which covers the mind" already. In the relevant Quranic verse however this is not the case and so it is compeltely fine to read it "khumr". SO you can see and even acknowledged it yourself before that the same root and infact the same word can have more than one meaning in different contexts. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- Just because you find a word spelled "kha-miim-ra" in two instances does NOT mean it cannot be read "khamr" in one and "khUmr" in another context. In context of that hadith it is probably makes more sense to use "khamr" cause of of the word "sukur" already used before it which means "that which covers the mind" already. In the relevant Quranic verse however this is not the case and so it is compeltely fine to read it "khumr". SO you can see and even acknowledged it yourself before that the same root and infact the same word can have more than one meaning in different contexts. GOD Bless!
it's not Kha-Mim-Ra it's khamr and it is not Sin-Kaf-Ra it's sukr, nothing to do with cover the head and cover the mind. Open a dictionnary and see.