Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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I'm hesitant about answer you seriously or ironically hmm... I'll do both.
So we found another pillar! To be a better muslim one must meet in person all other muslims and be a larger group. Those sparce followers in the very beginning had no idea did they, when it was just Muhammed, Abu Bakr and the odd few others they were not actually good muslims until there were many of them. How things have changed eh? ;D
Yes things changed since then, now nobody has to follow their footsteps because it may be a wrong hadith.
Not found that in Quran, I thought Quran was for mankind, which includes women or was God only speaking about men?
He was speaking about both but men MUST go to the mosque and women have the same reward by praying at home, they can go to the mosque if they want tho.
aah is that right? I think it is beyond your understanding that Allah was quite clear this cannot be done, but inshaAllah your understanding may blossom.
Hopefully it can but keep thinking otherwise.
what has keeping it secret got to do with you being a tight arse all year round? Quran says publically and privately, hadith say keep it secret so no one knows what a tight arse you are?
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God knows, that's what matters.
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I'm hesitant about answer you seriously or ironically hmm... I'll do both.
Why hesitant? Am I that scary ;DYes things changed since then, now nobody has to follow their footsteps because it may be a wrong hadith.
so if things have changed from the prophets time you are not following what he did, you are following something that has been made up/derived from/ added to and not what he and the original muslims followed.As has been pointed out to you already there was once a time when a very small group of believers were steadfast in their faith against all the majority and fought against anyone who tried to add, subtract or change the message. Muhammed was the leader of that group and Allah was his leader, as He is ours. Small we may be but we know our stuff inside out and we help each other, even though we have never met and disagree on many things, because we fully understand we are all indiviuals with different ways of reading and seeing and thinking and reflecting on Quran. So here in this forum we get to look at each others reflections and it widens our journey through Quran with new eyes each time we look at a verse. We do not have a set of scholars who tell us what to think and believe that we follow blindly without question. We use the brains Allah blessed us with and we follow the words that he gave us, and we sincerely are seeking truth and we all ask Allah for help and guidence in that, because we trust HIM with all our hearts and minds that He knows we genuinely seek and we know He will genuinely guide.
He was speaking about both but men MUST go to the mosque and women have the same reward by praying at home, they can go to the mosque if they want tho.
they can go to the mosque if they live near a mosque that women are not barred from you mean. ;DGod knows, that's what matters.
yes He does and He knows that Muhammed was not told privately to make Zakat 2.5% once a year too.
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Why hesitant? Am I that scary ;D
Are you ?
so if things have changed from the prophets time you are not following what he did, you are following something that has been made up/derived from/ added to and not what he and the original muslims followed.
As has been pointed out to you already there was once a time when a very small group of believers were steadfast in their faith against all the majority and fought against anyone who tried to add, subtract or change the message. Muhammed was the leader of that group and Allah was his leader, as He is ours. Small we may be but we know our stuff inside out and we help each other, even though we have never met and disagree on many things, because we fully understand we are all indiviuals with different ways of reading and seeing and thinking and reflecting on Quran. So here in this forum we get to look at each others reflections and it widens our journey through Quran with new eyes each time we look at a verse. We do not have a set of scholars who tell us what to think and believe that we follow blindly without question. We use the brains Allah blessed us with and we follow the words that he gave us, and we sincerely are seeking truth and we all ask Allah for help and guidence in that, because we trust HIM with all our hearts and minds that He knows we genuinely seek and we know He will genuinely guide.
they can go to the mosque if they live near a mosque that women are not barred from you mean. ;DOh! OK I get it now ! you love so much the prophet and his companions that you want to remake history, you identify yourselves to them and think you are their equals. You want to skip all they did and start new every thing from scratch, OK now I get it. thanx for enlightening me sun
yes He does and He knows that Muhammed was not told privately to make Zakat 2.5% once a year too.
nope
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Salaam.
One Q
Does Qur'an need hadeeth books by men to be understood
or
do all the books by Bukhary & co need Qur'an to .... whatever?
Let me know.
My email is known.
I'd write my cell number but this is the net.Peace.
Ignoring hadeeth is ignoring a huge part of islam, since I found this forum I'm more aware of it, especially since most of yall say salaat is not salaat (you know what I mean) when salaat (as certain acts and sayings) is more than obligatory.
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Are you ?
yes buddy, I am your worst nightmare.
Oh! OK I get it now ! you love so much the prophet and his companions that you want to remake history, you identify yourselves to them and think you are their equals. You want to skip all they did and start new every thing from scratch, OK now I get it. thanx for enlightening me sun
??? Arent you the one that was talking about walking in his footsteps by eating with the left hand and all that malarky? Arent you the one that is saying he was some kind of super human man we should emulate? YOU identify to what YOU have been told the prophet did and said even to how he ate and used the bathroom and you take what I said about being a small group and twist it in this way? Do you think eating with the left hand makes you his equal? Why the hell do you twist being a small group to the crap you just posted? Did Muhammed come with a 'new thing'? NO, Abraham was a muslim so Islam is not a new invention, hadith IS. We follow Quran, that is not a new invention, Muhammed and his small group of companions did it and that's what we follow. You think wiping your arse with the right number of stones makes you his equal? You think that makes you a better muslim with your majority all asking how many stones to wipe their arses with?
We have respect for the prophet of God and we want to follow what he did in following quran, small group we may be just as the small group of Muhammed was. Now you go find the hadith about the 73 sects and see if the one that is following Muhammed is the one that follows Quran or the one that wipes his arse with the correct number of stones and eats with the left hand and learn some respect!
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Your thirst of scientific proofs will cause your loss (in the general sense), anyway you can't scientifically proove that meat were rotting before this event with the israelites.
The hadith is making a scientific claim about decay of meat, and that it never used to happen until Israelis came along. This is a lie. You attribute lies to the Prophet. You can scientifically prove that meat decayed before Israelis existed, but that would require you to understand the scientific method. What's more, you claimed I did not understand the hadith, insinuating that you do. So explain to me how meat did not decay before Israelis.
Yes, but in this hadeeth in particular Eve has been stated, where's the contradiction ? we can also say, if it wasnt for Adam men wouldnt betray their wives.
The hadith is a lie. This is obvious to me and you, but because you are both firm in your belief and disingenuous you will not dare admit it. Your allegiance does not lie with the Prophet, otherwise you would throw the hadith against the wall. Your allegiance lies with the leaders of your sect.
PS Quran didnt mentionned that Eve was the cause of eating from the tree.
Yes, I know. The hadith is alluding to a Christian concept, which further proves it is false. Abu Huraira was no stranger to using hadith from the bible
Muslim 39 Number 6707
Abu Haraira reported that Allah?s Messenger took hold of my hands and said Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after ?Asr on Friday;the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night.I give them the benefice of the doubt, not like you, and if the prophet have said it it MUST be true. Then after all this have no direct effect on my every day life and worship so I can care less if it's sahih or not.
So you are willing to admit that the content of the hadith is dodgy and provokes doubt. Yet the benefit of this doubt goes to the aid of Bukhari and not the exemplary character of the Prophet portrayed in the quran. Like I said earlier, the choice you've made is clear. And you say it has no effect on your everyday life... attributing lies to the Prophet has no effect on your everyday life? Perhaps it will effect you on the Day of Reckoning.
What you consider to be noble and pious is in actual fact destructive and evil. Does the following hadith effect your everyday life?
Muslim Book 23 Number 5022
Abu Huraira reported Allah?s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying None of you should drink while standing; and if anyone forgets, he must vomit.He must vomit. Ah yes, the hikmah of this hadith is so obvious. Again, the choice is clear you either insult the Prophet and insist the classification of this hadith is indeed sahih, or you defend him from such nonsense and admit your scholars were wrong. So far you believe flies that fall in your water should be dunked, that meat before Israelis did not decay and that because of Eve women betray their husbands. Do you believe that water that is drunk whilst standing should be vomited out? Do you attribute such an injunction to the Prophet?
And jz khair for correcting me regarding Abu Huraira in Malik's muwatta there's nothing quite as satisfying as ridding your mind of misconceptions and falsehood. I genuinely mean that so thanks.
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Ignoring hadeeth is ignoring a huge part of islam, since I found this forum I'm more aware of it, especially since most of yall say salaat is not salaat (you know what I mean) when salaat (as certain acts and sayings) is more than obligatory.
Peace,
Respect.Have you read these in Arabic?
7185,
316,
3923,
456,
5234,
6844,
7750.Pay special attention to 3923.
Suras 68 and 69 are also of huuuuge importance, buddy.
Constantly keep in mind this; 6114. Deal?Peace.
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yes buddy, I am your worst nightmare.
??? Arent you the one that was talking about walking in his footsteps by eating with the left hand and all that malarky? Arent you the one that is saying he was some kind of super human man we should emulate? YOU identify to what YOU have been told the prophet did and said even to how he ate and used the bathroom and you take what I said about being a small group and twist it in this way? Do you think eating with the left hand makes you his equal? Why the hell do you twist being a small group to the crap you just posted? Did Muhammed come with a 'new thing'? NO, Abraham was a muslim so Islam is not a new invention, hadith IS. We follow Quran, that is not a new invention, Muhammed and his small group of companions did it and that's what we follow. You think wiping your arse with the right number of stones makes you his equal? You think that makes you a better muslim with your majority all asking how many stones to wipe their arses with?
We have respect for the prophet of God and we want to follow what he did in following quran, small group we may be just as the small group of Muhammed was. Now you go find the hadith about the 73 sects and see if the one that is following Muhammed is the one that follows Quran or the one that wipes his arse with the correct number of stones and eats with the left hand and learn some respect!
You follow him only by following quran wich is the minimum while me and my A-alikes follow all what he does. We search and look for what is avaible without beign racist about this info has been reported by an arab and arabs are hypocrites and all that small talk, we love him and we want to do like him but in no way we think we are his equals. How could we be ? no one could.
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The hadith is making a scientific claim about decay of meat, and that it never used to happen until Israelis came along. This is a lie. You attribute lies to the Prophet. You can scientifically prove that meat decayed before Israelis existed, but that would require you to understand the scientific method. What's more, you claimed I did not understand the hadith, insinuating that you do. So explain to me how meat did not decay before Israelis.
Neither you nor I can go back in time and check how the degradation of meat use to be. I leave the benefice of the doubt like I said, it could be true or not. If the prophet said it, it must be true, if he didnt then it's cool also.
The hadith is a lie. This is obvious to me and you, but because you are both firm in your belief and disingenuous you will not dare admit it. Your allegiance does not lie with the Prophet, otherwise you would throw the hadith against the wall. Your allegiance lies with the leaders of your sect.
I have no sect Mush, quran-aloners on the other hand sounds like a sect with a guru and all ;D
Yes, I know. The hadith is alluding to a Christian concept, which further proves it is false. Abu Huraira was no stranger to using hadith from the bible
Muslim 39 Number 6707
Abu Haraira reported that Allah?s Messenger took hold of my hands and said Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after ?Asr on Friday;the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night.If the prophet said it it must be true, if dont it also OK, this have no direct effect to my every day life nor my religion practicing.
So you are willing to admit that the content of the hadith is dodgy and provokes doubt. Yet the benefit of this doubt goes to the aid of Bukhari and not the exemplary character of the Prophet portrayed in the quran.
Of course, it could also be made after Bukhari someone could have attribueted it to Bukhari. Whatever !
Like I said earlier, the choice you've made is clear. And you say it has no effect on your everyday life... attributing lies to the Prophet has no effect on your everyday life? Perhaps it will effect you on the Day of Reckoning.
Perhaps but you will not be the judge of it.
What you consider to be noble and pious is in actual fact destructive and evil. Does the following hadith effect your everyday life?
Muslim Book 23 Number 5022
Abu Huraira reported Allah?s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying None of you should drink while standing; and if anyone forgets, he must vomit.He must vomit. Ah yes, the hikmah of this hadith is so obvious. Again, the choice is clear you either insult the Prophet and insist the classification of this hadith is indeed sahih, or you defend him from such nonsense and admit your scholars were wrong. So far you believe flies that fall in your water should be dunked, that meat before Israelis did not decay and that because of Eve women betray their husbands. Do you believe that water that is drunk whilst standing should be vomited out? Do you attribute such an injunction to the Prophet?
This is totally sahih and true. When you drink standing water flows violently in the stomach and with the time your stomach can be hurt, it is better if you drink sitting because your stomach is relaxed and the water flows more slowly. I read a scientifil research about it once and it seems very logical to me.
PS is more like spitting and not vomiting.
On the other hand if it is impossible to drink sitting or if you forget it is not seriously bad.
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You follow him only by following quran wich is the minimum while me and my A-alikes follow all what he does. We search and look for what is avaible without beign racist about this info has been reported by an arab and arabs are hypocrites and all that small talk, we love him and we want to do like him but in no way we think we are his equals. How could we be ? no one could.
Salaam.
Respect.Read The Qur'an and you'll see how prophet/messenger lived and what he said and his whole life.
Also, in The Qur'an, you'll find older hadeeth then the ones from Bukhary and those others. There is a hadeeth from Adam and his wife, from Noah and his son, from Ibraheem and his father and so on and on. These hadeeth are truly sahih.Glory be to God.
Peace. -
Salaam.
Respect.Read The Qur'an and you'll see how prophet/messenger lived and what he said and his whole life.
Theres sooooooo much more.
Also, in The Qur'an, you'll find older hadeeth then the ones from Bukhary and those others. There is a hadeeth from Adam and his wife, from Noah and his son, from Ibraheem and his father and so on and on. These hadeeth are truly sahih.
Glory be to God.
Peace.Theres no doubt about it, Quran is the first reference but not the only one.
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So much more? Can you verify it? Remember 1736?????
God gave prophet/messenger Muhammad One Book, One Revelation, not several books.Peace.
I believe it is valuable when it is not contradicting Quran nor the morals and the common sens.
So I referr to it when it comes to Salaat and the acts of worship.
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men MUST go to the mosque and women have the same reward by praying at home
Ah, so praying is all about gaining paradise points hassanat.
Now why are we women wasting our precious energy fighting for access to mosques and proper facilities in them when we can simply stay away and will get the same reward?! Isn't it wonderful how the hadith tell me I will get just as many points in my little virtual Excel chart if I stay at home!
http//foolstown.com/sm/obm.gif
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I believe it is valuable when it is not contradicting Quran nor the morals and the common sens.
So I referr to it when it comes to Salaat and the acts of worship.
Peace,
Respect.Amigo, how to perform the salaat is in The Qur'an.
That is why I said to read and keep in mind 6114.
Regarding giving charity 2215, 219 and 6141.
Brother, I'm sure if you really read The Qur'an carefully and ponder over what Allah SWT is saying, you'll understand what needs to be understood, with all due Respect, bro.Peace.
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You follow him only by following quran wich is the minimum
The minimum, hmmm. I suppose the difference is that my God is Allah, so I follow Him and what He said.
75.17 It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it
75.18 But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated)
54.22 But We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
54.32 And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
54.40 And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?
55.2 It is He Who has taught the Qur'an.
56.77 That this is indeed a qur'an Most Honourable
4.87 Allah! There is no god but He of a surety He will gather you together against the Day of Judgment, about which there is no doubt. And whose word can be truer than Allah's?
39.18 Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.
31.21 When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire?
6.116 Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture they do nothing but lie.
10.66 Behold! verily to Allah belong all creatures, in the heavens and on earth. What do they follow who worship as His "partners" other than Allah? They follow nothing but fancy, and they do nothing but lie.
while me and my A-alikes follow all what he does. We search and look for what is avaible without beign racist about this info has been reported by an arab and arabs are hypocrites and all that small talk, we love him and we want to do like him but in no way we think we are his equals. How could we be ? no one could.
I am not racist about things reported by an Arab and nowhere have I said that. I pointed you to the verses of Allah, who by your definition is being racist. Interestingly this is always translated as bedouins or desert Arabs although the Arabic just says 'Arabs'. You aer referring to these verses as small talk? You love him so much you disregard what Allah says and follow anything made up by anyone who says the prophet did or said this or that. You love him so much you follow anything BUT the message he was given to give to mankind. You follow Muhammed as your GOD.
9.90 And there were, among the desert Arabs (also), men who made excuses and came to claim exemption; and those who were false to Allah and His Messenger (merely) sat inactive. Soon will a grievous penalty seize the Unbelievers among them.
9.97 The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.
9.101 Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk they are obstinate in hypocrisy thou knowest them not We know them twice shall We punish them and in addition shall they be sent to a grievous penalty.
You search and you find anything you can to follow him even if it's not from him you don't mind as you and your A-alikes are as those you questioned about the cow and Moses, you didn't get it did you? You are not satisfied with what Allah gave and you want more, so you search and you find it while getting further and further from the message and the GOD you should be following. You are a polytheist and you dont have a clue that is what you are doing.
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Peace,
Respect.Amigo, how to perform the salaat is in The Qur'an.
That is why I said to read and keep in mind 6114.
Regarding giving charity 2215, 219 and 6141.
Brother, I'm sure if you really read The Qur'an carefully and ponder over what Allah SWT is saying, you'll understand what needs to be understood, with all due Respect, bro.Peace.
You assume that I did not because I dont understand the things the way you do.
Quran aloners decided to not follow hadeeth, they reject all of it as they think it is not valuable because they think it is not scientificly accurate and corrupted and all.
I know -and it's obvious that it is- that somefalse hadeeth have been added to the sahih and true ones but I leave the benefice of the doubt and make my mind exactely like you.
I'd rather rely on the description of the salaat from the hadeeth wich details it very well and because it include what is said in the Quran, I have the firm conviction that these details that we have are the right ones. You can think otherwise but rejecting all hadeeth is wrong.
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Peace,
Respect.Amigo, how to perform the salaat is in The Qur'an.
That is why I said to read and keep in mind 6114.
Regarding giving charity 2215, 219 and 6141.
Brother, I'm sure if you really read The Qur'an carefully and ponder over what Allah SWT is saying, you'll understand what needs to be understood, with all due Respect, bro.Peace.
dont bother Alen, Quran is not enough for him, it's the minimum, there is so much more blah blah, he is happy following his god and gaining his points as he thinks, Quran is just not enough.
28.49 Say "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
Obviously they made up a 'better guide' than Torah and Quran after the prophet died.
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You assume that I did not because I dont understand the things the way you do.
Quran aloners decided to not follow hadeeth, they reject all of it as they think it is not valuable because they think it is not scientificly accurate and corrupted and all.
I know -and it's obvious that it is- that somefalse hadeeth have been added to the sahih and true ones but I leave the benefice of the doubt and make my mind exactely like you.
I'd rather rely on the description of the salaat from the hadeeth wich details it very well and because it include what is said in the Quran, I have the firm conviction that these details that we have are the right ones. You can think otherwise but rejecting all hadeeth is wrong.
what does this say?
77.50
and this 39.23