Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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There is no proof Quran alone is in error.
...that you know of.
people can find comfort in conformity.
and people can find comfort in going their own way and following their personal whims and desires.
peoples problem is their dogmatic approach. what is the point in life? to emulate the prophet in all actions and deeds? are we simply producing clones? is that what God wants? Seriously?
and Qur'an-alone is not your dogma?
For some men with limited intelligence, imitation of the prophet is salvation for them, because that is within their given capacity. Religion/deen was sent down to save the largest possible number of people. The point of life is to avoid hell fire above all else. Not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and like children, these simple people just need to be led by someone more wise. This is why we have the example of the prophet and "those favor is upon them".
Would you carefully think about the last ayah of the fatiha? Allah did not say "the path of the Book", He (swt) said specifically, "the path of THOSE (i.e. people) favor is upon THEM", and then mentions to other groups (of people) to avoid. If this doesn't sink in, nothing will.
just because someone prays 5 times a day, makes dua, grows a beard or dons a hijab, they're not automatically guided. there's more to life than that.
Obviously true, but that doesn't mean there are not virtues in doing these things. There clearly are virtues in prayer and modesty. The beard grows by itself, it's more natural to leave it alone.
These things may not be guidance in themselves, but "supports" for the seeking of guidance. As for example, Allah Most High says in the Qur'an that salat is to effect self-discipline and restraint from bad behavior. If your salat is not accomplishing this purpose, then it isn't a virtue, it's just exercise. You're wasting your time.
In conclusion, I believe all this is really about moving knowledge from the head to the heart.
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What is that shirk that I am (and the likes of me are) doing ?
As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.Asociating prophet/messenger Muhammad with God.
You're falling into the same trap that followers of Jesus (later ones) fell into in regards with Jesus.
That is why people later on decided to start saying and Muhammad is His messenger. I'd say they wanted to exclude from those who were saying that Jesus was His son or that he also was God.You'd be saved, if only you dumped those extra books.
The only sunnah to be followed, brother, is the sunnah in The Qur'an.
The only hadeeth to be followed is The Qur'an.
Evidence 3923.God Bless ya.
Peace. -
For some men with limited intelligence, imitation of the prophet is salvation for them, because that is within their given capacity. Religion/deen was sent down to save the largest possible number of people. The point of life is to avoid hell fire above all else. Not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and like children, these simple people just need to be led by someone more wise. This is why we have the example of the prophet and "those favor is upon them".
The above is a remarkably, astonishingly, horrifyingly weak argument. Does the qur'an condone having 'limited intelligence' ? That is a copout. These so-called "men with limited intelligence" almost undoubtedly appear that way because of the religious structures, coincidentally, in place that outlaw the use of said intelligence. What came first? These are not deficient human beings who must be coddled. You do the Creator of these human beings a great disservice with such an implication.
Your statement that not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and must therefore be treated like children for their own benefit, is also at odds with much of what the qur'an stands for. Again, another huge disservice. The Creator created men with limited intelligence whose only reprieve is mimicry of a great man? And then sent a Book that is almost pointless because it wasn't sent for the masses as well? A book, you imply, that is so difficult to understand that you need to be a 'genius' to 'grasp'? Laughable.
In conclusion, I believe all this is really about moving knowledge from the head to the heart.
No, it's not. Not at all. This has nothing to do with knowledge, according to your own statements. We're dealing with people of "limited intelligence" who don't have the "genius" to "grasp" things, right? Nah, knowledge doesn't come into play here. Of the head, or the heart.
This is about control, fear, and suppression of thought.
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Badr
tawaf makes all the hajj? Why do sunnis do tawaf in umrah? Tbh i haven?t read a whole lot about hajj but tawaf doesn?t make it all, i can say that.Anyway if someone has the right intentions and tries to do good based on their knowledge and further tries to seek knowledge. I don?t see the problem there.
Let God judge them. You do what you think is right, you put your position/knowledge on the plate, whoever takes it good (or bad) for them. It?s not your place to tell them they?re wrong. Unless you?re going to prove it on facts, not opinions.
La yukallifu Allahu nafsan ila wusaha
abdullah_m
...that you know of.
No. Go ask any Muslim if they doubt any bit of the Quran, the Quran only. Just Quran. Ask which bit they doubt which bit is in error.
and people can find comfort in going their own way and following their personal whims and desires.
Conformity due to comfort can be a way of following personal whims and desires.
and Qur'an-alone is not your dogma?
I have a principle of beliefs i don?t claim it to be absolute truth, i refer back to God. I don?t dehumanise others nor outcast them. If you choose your path which appears to be sunnism, that?s your choosing your choice. To you is your deeds and to me is mine. I don?t have a problem with diversity i have a problem with people thinking they?re all right and everyone else is bound to hell. It?s called intolerance.
For some men with limited intelligence, imitation of the prophet is salvation for them, because that is within their given capacity. Religion/deen was sent down to save the largest possible number of people. The point of life is to avoid hell fire above all else. Not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and like children, these simple people just need to be led by someone more wise. This is why we have the example of the prophet and "those favor is upon them".
I have to agree with CavemanDoctors comments. The brain is an amazing tool that works in wondrous ways. People, scholars, learned were once ?normal? people. They sought out knowledge just as what Quran asks of us. In fact even hadith attributed to the prophet Mohammed does too. So to claim one is incompetent stupid unintelligent is an excuse to conform, which is simply blind following laziness.
God didn?t say you have to learn everything in the world. Being led and blindly following are too different things. A bad teacher is one that gives answers a good teacher is one that guides students to find the answers. There?s a difference, if you don?t understand reflect on it.
Examples of the prophet are described in the Quran, if you don?t know there is a whole chapter of Anbiya 21, chapter on Mohammed 47 and other prophets too. Go look in the Quran index.
Would you carefully think about the last ayah of the fatiha? Allah did not say "the path of the Book", He (swt) said specifically, "the path of THOSE (i.e. people) favor is upon THEM", and then mentions to other groups (of people) to avoid. If this doesn't sink in, nothing will.
About the last ayah of fatiha, it doesn?t say ?the path of hadith?. Who are THOSE people on the path? You claim to know, share your knowledge.
Obviously true, but that doesn't mean there are not virtues in doing these things. There clearly are virtues in prayer and modesty. The beard grows by itself, it's more natural to leave it alone.
These things may not be guidance in themselves, but "supports" for the seeking of guidance. As for example, Allah Most High says in the Qur'an that salat is to effect self-discipline and restraint from bad behavior. If your salat is not accomplishing this purpose, then it isn't a virtue, it's just exercise. You're wasting your time.In conclusion, I believe all this is really about moving knowledge from the head to the heart.
They can be non-virtues. have you ever considered the one who prays to be seen? The one who dons the look to be known, to be praised? Truly only God knows what?s in the hearts of people and their actions.
If your salat helps you restrain from bad behaviour than good for you. do what you do that helps in that regard. I ain?t saying don?t.
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If you pray less than prescribed and facing the wrong direction, don't fast and think that tawaf isnt the thing to do wich makes all the hajj (if we suppose you believe theres a hajj) crumble then you are obviously in the wrong.
Oh, Badr!
You remind me of myself years ago. I don't know what exactly halted me there? What prevented me from opening up? I pray for you. I am sure that you will evolve much sooner than I did. Wal hamdulillahh. -
As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.Asociating prophet/messenger Muhammad with God.
You're falling into the same trap that followers of Jesus (later ones) fell into in regards with Jesus.
That is why people later on decided to start saying and Muhammad is His messenger. I'd say they wanted to exclude from those who were saying that Jesus was His son or that he also was God.You'd be saved, if only you dumped those extra books.
The only sunnah to be followed, brother, is the sunnah in The Qur'an.
The only hadeeth to be followed is The Qur'an.
Evidence 3923.God Bless ya.
Peace.These discussions are going in circles if we dont read each others comments (I am reading all yours tho). I already stated clearly that we dont worship Muhammad nor give him a level that is equal to god's. Also, exactely to not beign like christians who raised their prophet to the level of god or son of god we say "Muhammad is the prophet of god/rasool allah" or "his slave and his prophetabduhu wa rasooluhu" this is exactely to put him in the right level gaven to him by god.
We know that Muhammad is not in the level of god, who could be in the level of the Most High, the most Merciful and the most Wise, theres a huuuuuuge difference between the creator and the created. -
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Badr
tawaf makes all the hajj? Why do sunnis do tawaf in umrah? Tbh i haven?t read a whole lot about hajj but tawaf doesn?t make it all, i can say that.Umra is a hajj outside the month of hajj.
Anyway if someone has the right intentions and tries to do good based on their knowledge and further tries to seek knowledge. I don?t see the problem there.
Neither I.
Let God judge them. You do what you think is right, you put your position/knowledge on the plate, whoever takes it good (or bad) for them. It?s not your place to tell them they?re wrong. Unless you?re going to prove it on facts, not opinions.
La yukallifu Allahu nafsan ila wusaha
Well, quranites can tell people are wrong whether I can't ? why ? (it starts from the homepage and spreads into all the forum).
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These discussions are going in circles if we dont read each others comments (I am reading all yours tho). I already stated clearly that we dont worship Muhammad nor give him a level that is equal to god's. Also, exactely to not beign like christians who raised their prophet to the level of god or son of god we say "Muhammad is the prophet of god/rasool allah" or "his slave and his prophetabduhu wa rasooluhu" this is exactely to put him in the right level gaven to him by god.
We know that Muhammad is not in the level of god, who could be in the level of the Most High, the most Merciful and the most Wise, theres a huuuuuuge difference between the creator and the created.you say that IN your prayer and worship of God which should be only FOR God. Who are you saying it FOR? Because God already knows this and has SAID this in Quran, He has TOLD you that saying this is wrong. see surah 63. This is not saying the hypocrites DO this, it is saying those who do this are hypocrites. You say this in your prayer and worship for GOD and at the same time refuse to follow GOD and the words that are 100% from God and choose to follow what you have been told by MAN are the words of the prophet, so you follow conjecture, not GOD.
63.1 When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
63.2 They have made their oaths a screen (for their misdeeds) thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of Allah truly evil are their deeds.
63.3 That is because they believed, then they rejected Faith So a seal was set on their hearts therefore they understand not.
63.4 When thou lookest at them, their exteriors please thee; and when they speak, thou listenest to their words. They are as (worthless as hollow) pieces of timber propped up, (unable to stand on their own). They think that every cry is against them. They are the enemies; so beware of them. The curse of Allah be on them! How are they deluded (away from the Truth)! -
Not everyone is blessed with the genius to interpret scripture or grasp metaphysical truth, and like children, these simple people just need to be led by someone more wise. This is why we have the example of the prophet and "those favor is upon them".
The prophet is dead, so he is not around to lead anyone or be an example. Following Bukhari, Muslim and scholars' interpretations is NOT the same as following a prophet who is alive and available.
The beard grows by itself, it's more natural to leave it alone.
Your hair and nails also grow by themselves. Do you leave them alone because it is "more natural"?
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Beard-growing is essential for hadith-followers
Hadith - Bukhari 7781, Narrated Ibn 'Umar
Allah's Apostle said, "Cut the moustaches short and leave the beard (as it is)."
Hadith - Muslim, Narrated AbuHurayrah
The Messenger of Allah said Trim closely the moustache, and grow beard, and thus act against the fire-worshippers.
Hadith - Bukhari 9651, Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri
The Prophet said, "There will emerge from the East some people who will recite the Qur'an but it will not exceed their throats and who will go out of (renounce) the religion (Islam) as an arrow passes through the game, and they will never come back to it unless the arrow, comes back to the middle of the bow (by itself) (i.e., impossible)." The people asked, "What will their signs be?" He said, "Their sign will be the habit of shaving (of their beards)." (Fateh Al-Bari, Page 322, Vol. 17th)
Hadith - Muwatta 51.7
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that Ata ibn Yasar told him that the Messenger of Allah was in the mosque when a man came in with dishevelled hair and beard. The Messenger of Allah motioned with his hand that he should be sent out to groom his hair and beard. The man did so and then returned. The Messenger of Allah said, "Isn't this better than that one of you should come with his head dishevelled, as if he were a shaytan?"
Eating with the left hand is bad eat
Peace giveup
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Umra is a hajj outside the month of hajj.
Neither I.
Well, quranites can tell people are wrong whether I can't ? why ? (it starts from the homepage and spreads into all the forum).
no, people can perform "umrah" during "hajj" time, go ask your local sheikh.
just because people can tell other people they're wrong doesn't mean their actions are right.
be a better person, put your arguments forward and that's that. you're no qadi or rabb so leave it be.
salam.
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no, people can perform "umrah" during "hajj" time, go ask your local sheikh.
just because people can tell other people they're wrong doesn't mean their actions are right.
be a better person, put your arguments forward and that's that. you're no qadi or rabb so leave it be.
salam.
I know but the essential difference is you can not do a hajj outside the time of the hajj.
I never pretend to be a qadi nor a rabb.
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People argue too much.
There is no proof Quran alone is in error.
In fact all Muslims take Quran on it's own as divine. no one divines the hadith, but they try to.
there is no doubt some truth in hadith, some truth mixed with falsehood doesn't become a great guide.
people can falsify meanings in anything.
people can find comfort in conformity.
peoples problem is their dogmatic approach. what is the point in life? to emulate the prophet in all actions and deeds? are we simply producing clones? is that what God wants? Seriously?
just because someone prays 5 times a day, makes dua, grows a beard or dons a hijab, they're not automatically guided. there's more to life than that.
Awesome post!
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These discussions are going in circles if we dont read each others comments (I am reading all yours tho). I already stated clearly that we dont worship Muhammad nor give him a level that is equal to god's. Also, exactely to not beign like christians who raised their prophet to the level of god or son of god we say "Muhammad is the prophet of god/rasool allah" or "his slave and his prophetabduhu wa rasooluhu" this is exactely to put him in the right level gaven to him by god.
We know that Muhammad is not in the level of god, who could be in the level of the Most High, the most Merciful and the most Wise, theres a huuuuuuge difference between the creator and the created.Wrong!!!
If you look at the Sunni / Islamic Calenders, a picture of so called Kaabaa always comes with Masjid AlNabi.
If you look at Posters / Wall hangings, same goes there.
If you look at paper weights / show pieces, same goes there with small models of Kaabaa and Masjid AlNabi.
If you look at the inside front wall of most of the mosques, you will find Allah and Mohammed written on the SAME wall, with the SAME color, with the SAME font, in the SAME size, at the SAME height.
If you look at most of the AlQuraan with Urdu translation, you will find 99 names of Allah at the front cover and 99 names of Mohammed at the end cover.
In Saudi Arabia, people call Masjid-AlHaraam as 'Haram' and they also call Masjid-AlNabi as 'Haram', when they call by combining them, they say 'Haramain' means two Harams.
When you say, AlQuraan is the book of Allah, they add Hadith is the book of Prophet Mohammed.
When you say, 'Laa ilaaha illaAllah' they will surely add 'Mohammed AlRasool Allah'.
If you say something bad about Allah, they say, Allah will send you to hell, and when you say something bad about Mohammed, you will be killed.
2165
2165 And from among the people are some who take other than Allah as equals to Him, they love them as they love Allah; but those who believe, love Allah more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to Allah, and that Allah is severe in retribution.May Allah keep us away from Shirk and guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Beard-growing is essential for hadith-followers
Hadith - Bukhari 7781, Narrated Ibn 'Umar
Allah's Apostle said, "Cut the moustaches short and leave the beard (as it is)."
Hadith - Muslim, Narrated AbuHurayrah
The Messenger of Allah said Trim closely the moustache, and grow beard, and thus act against the fire-worshippers.
Hadith - Bukhari 9651, Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri
The Prophet said, "There will emerge from the East some people who will recite the Qur'an but it will not exceed their throats and who will go out of (renounce) the religion (Islam) as an arrow passes through the game, and they will never come back to it unless the arrow, comes back to the middle of the bow (by itself) (i.e., impossible)." The people asked, "What will their signs be?" He said, "Their sign will be the habit of shaving (of their beards)." (Fateh Al-Bari, Page 322, Vol. 17th)
Hadith - Muwatta 51.7
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that Ata ibn Yasar told him that the Messenger of Allah was in the mosque when a man came in with dishevelled hair and beard. The Messenger of Allah motioned with his hand that he should be sent out to groom his hair and beard. The man did so and then returned. The Messenger of Allah said, "Isn't this better than that one of you should come with his head dishevelled, as if he were a shaytan?"
Eating with the left hand is bad eat
Peace giveupSalaam.
Hitler is going to HellFire just as much as Usamah bin Laden.
Because they dismissed The Qur'an and did not follow it.
God Knows BEST.Peace.
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Wrong!!!
If you look at the Sunni / Islamic Calenders, a picture of so called Kaabaa always comes with Masjid AlNabi.
It's normal it was the 1st mosque built by Muhammad, his house and his grave. There's such constructions around the houses or the graves of alot of prophets.
If you look at Posters / Wall hangings, same goes there.
Not always.
If you look at paper weights / show pieces, same goes there with small models of Kaabaa and Masjid AlNabi.
Not always neither.
If you look at the inside front wall of most of the mosques, you will find Allah and Mohammed written on the SAME wall, with the SAME color, with the SAME font, in the SAME size, at the SAME height.
And ? do people worship these writting ? do they face it when praying ? do they touch it and think it will give baraka ?
If you look at most of the AlQuraan with Urdu translation, you will find 99 names of Allah at the front cover and 99 names of Mohammed at the end cover.
???? theres no 99 names of Muhammad, where did you found this ?
In Saudi Arabia, people call Masjid-AlHaraam as 'Haram' and they also call Masjid-AlNabi as 'Haram', when they call by combining them, they say 'Haramain' means two Harams.
Do you know what means haram ?
When you say, AlQuraan is the book of Allah, they add Hadith is the book of Prophet Mohammed.
Hadith is not the book of Muhammad. Theres alot of books that contains deeds and hadiths by Muhammad. None of them is sacred nor divine like the Quran. We all know that.
When you say, 'Laa ilaaha illaAllah' they will surely add 'Mohammed AlRasool Allah'.
Reply 401
If you say something bad about Allah, they say, Allah will send you to hell, and when you say something bad about Mohammed, you will be killed.
Is that a general law or something ?
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It's normal it was the 1st mosque built by Muhammad, his house and his grave. There's such constructions around the houses or the graves of alot of prophets.
Not always.
Not always neither.
And ? do people worship these writting ? do they face it when praying ? do they touch it and think it will give baraka ?
???? theres no 99 names of Muhammad, where did you found this ?
Do you know what means haram ?
Hadith is not the book of Muhammad. Theres alot of books that contains deeds and hadiths by Muhammad. None of them is sacred nor divine like the Quran. We all know that.
Reply 401
Is that a general law or something ?
MashaAllah! You don't even care the aayat quoted on this subject. It seems by your reply, that you don't have any problem with it &
May Allah protect us all from THE EVIL and guide us all towards THE TRUTH.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Well from a quick catch up here Badr, it seems your comfortable sunni blanket is not quite what you think it is and you don't actually KNOW a lot of what IS taken as law that fatwa are made of. I am surprised, the hadith seem to be like a buffet to you in which you pick as you like at the time then accuse us of using our minds to interpret Quran. ;D You are really only a semi sunni.
At one point in what I have just read you seem to think stoning for adlutery doesn't happen nowadays, obviously you don't keep up on news outside your comfort zone because I hate to tell you yes it IS happening NOW and it is happening because of hadith. Women are being stoned to DEATH, not men, women.
Women are also raped by their husbands and they cannot do anything about it because of hadith. It is LAW in your sharia that a woman cannot refuse her husband at any time whether she wants to or not because of a hadith that says the angels will curse her till morning for upsetting her husband in this particular way.
Young girls are having their sexual organs mutilated in some countries because of a hadith where the prophet said only cut a bit, which is very odd because this practice has not ever been IN Arabia as far as I'm aware and was only performed in parts of Africa, where it still IS, and they think it is Islamic because of that hadith.
You said before that there is 'so much more' well yes there is and we have seen it, read it, studied it, inside out and upside down and come to the conclusion this is NOT Islam but various cultural practices that various people did not want to do away with when Islam came, so they did just like the jews and christians did and incorporated it all saying it was from the prophet and it grew alongside Quran because people like you were not satisfied with Quran and wanted more. You were not satisfied following Allah and needed a human to emulate and worship, sorry but yes copying everthing someone did IS a form of worship.
Salaam Aysha,
Jst love your posts! I'm a fan now