Prophet Muhammad's prayer (how to make salaat)
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Peace "Badr"
JK- I never said i was more capable. Muhammad probably took salat as what he understood it to mean and so did the rest of us without fixing it's meaning to any one rigid ritual as defined in hadith. That's the whole point. Nothing to do with being more or less capable than anyone.
Mohammad did not "probabely took salat as what he understood it to mean" it has been revealed to him exactely how it should be done.
JK- Ofcourse not every fly will be diseased. On the other hand am i insane to eat a fly carrying cholera or other diseases? It is common knwoledge that flies spread these diseases and nothing indicates that their wings carry aynthing special let alone the cure and disease each in one particular wing. The antiphages you mentioned are also extracted from the entire body of the fly not the wings in particular. GOD Bless!
In the link I gave you they said they extract it from the surface, wings are on the surface. Even my atheist friends confess that this hadeeth is miraculous and you, a muslim, reject it like cholera. nope
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1-these people are the best people that have been created on earth "Certainly was Allah pleased with the believers when they pledged allegiance to you, , under the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down tranquillity upon them and rewarded them with an imminent conquest" (481
""Muhammad - the messenger of GOD - and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek GOD's blessings and approval. Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the same example as in the Torah. Their example
in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers. GOD promises THOSE AMONG THEM who believe, and lead a righteous life, forgiveness and a great recompense." (4829)That is not those that God warned about is it. I assume you do know the verses I mean. Bukhari and Abu Hurairah were not in these people were they? those that allegedly passed on the hadith are not in these people either.
2-You seem to be a little bit (to not say alot) racist about arabs. While you must think good about all muslims and especially the arabs that god blessed with the prophet from them and amongst them instead of the israelites.
I am not racist about anyone and I am married an Egyptian Muslim. I was referring to the verses in Quran and I'm sure Allah is not racist, why would you assume I am for pointing out those verses?
No I must not think good about all muslims, why should I? Muslims can be just as hypocritical as anyone else, sometimes even more so! God did not bless all Arabs, where is that in Quran? those that were with Muhammed in mind body and spirit totally understood the message from Allah, that did not include all Arabs! Muhammed had many enemies among the Arabs and that is also in Quran.
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Mohammad did not "probabely took salat as what he understood it to mean" it has been revealed to him exactely how it should be done.
The revelation is Quran, if this detail is not in there then it was not "revealed to him exactely how it should be done." outside Quran.Abraham also prayed, so did all prophets before Muhammed and the detail IS in Quran, you just need more like those Allah mentions in Quran needing more and not being satisfied with what was revealed.
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Peace "Badr",
Mohammad did not "probabely took salat as what he understood it to mean" it has been revealed to him exactely how it should be done.
JK- You say that again and again but WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE for this claim? Where does the Quran say "O muhammad teach them how to perform their prayers/salat"?
In the link I gave you they said they extract it from the surface, wings are on the surface. Even my atheist friends confess that this hadeeth is miraculous and you, a muslim, reject it like cholera. nope
JK- I posted a whole article where an atheist refutes this hadith. The surface of the fly is not only the wings. Surface is a general term and can apply to various parts of a flies body. Why don't you go out to a sepcialist on flies yourself and ask him/her? See if he/she will tell you that the phages and antiphages are limited to the flies wings or whether merely dumping a fly carrying diseases like cholera into a drink would neutralize it without special extraction methods which even you stated using alcohol. GOD Bless!
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they are not 'pillars' though. They are not what holds Islam up are they? They are rituals.
Yes they are, rituals that holds islam up. They are commanded in the quran so they are obligatory we can consider them as pillars because in case of non prayers no complete islam.
?But if they repent, perform As-Salaat and give Zakaat, then they are your brethren in religion.?
understand ; if they dont pray and give zakaat they are not your brethren in islam.
You should know by now we are not ritualistic robotic followers. Why is the word 'confess' in there?
if you have followed the discussion youd have understood that I was referring to the obligatory feature of the salaat. (you said we follow what's in the quran, sallat is in the quran ; you have to "confess" it's obligatory)
You didn't answer many of mine but I expect you can't so no worries. Yes there is some stuff we do that differentiates us from Sunni, we follow Quran alone, just as Muhammed did. Quran is the pillar of Islam, Quran is what doesn't contradict or lie, Quran is where Islam is described and how to follow Islam. So I suppose if you insist we have pillars then that is the one I will go for, but normally we do have more meaningful things to discuss than how many 'pillars'.
You still didnt answered.
right, so the 5 pillars are crumbling now or what? You are having to admit there is a bit more to it than mere ritual actions, so where in the 5 pillars does it say this or is it something you have just thought up? Do you think this doesn't happen? I assure you very much it DOES because they are people like you, who follow like you, and think as long as they do all these rituals they are great muslims because that is what they are taught from the hadith and the things you are presenting here.
Now you have added common sense and good morals which is great, you are now beginning to learn a little what we are about. We have used common sense to arrive at Quran Alone and we find the examples of good morals in Quran Alone. A man that sets fire to a house with the people still in it because they didn't attend prayer at that time is not showing a good moral example to me, but he seems to for the man who beats his wife. Yes that is hadith.
???
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Peace "Badr",
if you have followed the discussion youd have understood that I was referring to the obligatory feature of the salaat. (you said we follow what's in the quran, sallat is in the quran ; you have to "confess" it's obligatory)
JK- We have to confess that "salat" is obligatory but not even that salat necessarily means prayer at all. Have you read Ayman's and other freeminders artciles on what salat means at free-minds main site? If not perhaps you should. GOD Bless!
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Yes they are, rituals that holds islam up. They are commanded in the quran so they are obligatory we can consider them as pillars because in case of non prayers no complete islam.
define prayers.
No they are not what holds Islam up and as I said one can do all these ritual pillars and still not be Muslim, THAT is what you don't seem to get.?But if they repent, perform As-Salaat and give Zakaat, then they are your brethren in religion.?
understand ; if they dont pray and give zakaat they are not your brethren in islam.
Jews Christians, Hindu, Buddhist, all do prayer and give in charity. ;Dif you have followed the discussion youd have understood that I was referring to the obligatory feature of the salaat. (you said we follow what's in the quran, sallat is in the quran ; you have to "confess" it's obligatory)
I have followed the discussion but cannot find where you describe the non-obligatory feature of salat, can you point it out please.You still didnt answered.
I did.???
Well is that showing a good moral example? You said common sense and good morals, is burning people in their houses because they missed a prayer time a good moral example or do you not know the hadith?
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define prayers.
No they are not what holds Islam up and as I said one can do all these ritual pillars and still not be Muslim, THAT is what you don't seem to get.Jews Christians, Hindu, Buddhist, all do prayer and give in charity. ;D
I have followed the discussion but cannot find where you describe the non-obligatory feature of salat, can you point it out please.
I did.
Well is that showing a good moral example? You said common sense and good morals, is burning people in their houses because they missed a prayer time a good moral example or do you not know the hadith?With you, the discussion turns into a closed circle, it's not about "getting me" or "set ups" I have no obligations before you neither you before me, we are discussion but you can't stop trying to ridicule me wich you dont succeed to do. If I didnt answer your burning house sentences it's because it's obvious, don't make me say what I didnt.
Now if I dont answer your posts it's just because there's a button "ignore" next to your name and I will use it.
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Peace "Badr",
JK- We have to confess that "salat" is obligatory but not even that salat necessarily means prayer at all. Have you read Ayman's and other freeminders artciles on what salat means at free-minds main site? If not perhaps you should. GOD Bless!
Sorry but I don't think "Ayman" is reference when it comes to islam, if you want to talk as equal to equal and exchange ideas it's OK for me, but no need to quote ayman or anyone that have proved nothing in this world.
And from what I saw, on the main page the articles are simple propaganda and full of S-H-I-T (example the vs sunni vs shia etc...).
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With you, the discussion turns into a closed circle, it's not about "getting me" or "set ups" I have no obligations before you neither you before me, we are discussion but you can't stop trying to ridicule me wich you dont succeed to do. If I didnt answer your burning house sentences it's because it's obvious, don't make me say what I didnt.
My apologies brother, I did not mean for my questions to be so difficult you would see them as ridicule as you have taken them.Now if I dont answer your posts it's just because there's a button "ignore" next to your name and I will use it.
No problems, ignore me and my questions if you wish until you find how to answer them peace
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Peace "Badr",
JK- You say that again and again but WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE for this claim? Where does the Quran say "O muhammad teach them how to perform their prayers/salat"?
Let's suppose that Muhammad is a norma lhuman and contradict (532-4) Do you think God will leave something on wich He insists all through Quran to his random thinking ?
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Peace "Badr",
Sorry but I don't think "Ayman" is reference when it comes to islam, if you want to talk as equal to equal and exchange ideas it's OK for me, but no need to quote ayman or anyone that have proved nothing in this world.
JK- He is IMU and many of those who frequent tis forum much more in accordance with reason and logic as any so called islamic scholar who follows hadith. Ofcourse you can deny that but for me and others this stands out as fact and tI say this despite my strong disagreements with Ayman on some points.
And from what I saw, on the main page the articles are simple propaganda and full of S-H-I-T (example the vs sunni vs shia etc...).
JK- Just because something appears "full of shit" to you doesnt mean it is so. What the main page is stating is Islam IN THE QURANIC SENSE WITHOUT THE INDLUENCE OF HADITH AND AS WE MOSLY UNDERSTAND IT VS sunni AND shia. Cause we want to distinguish ourslves from them. As for the points those are the actual differences between us and them so what is wrong? Or do you find anything stated there which either sunnis or shias do not follow but the page says it does? If so point it out and we will correct it accordingly. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
Let's suppose that Muhammad is a norma lhuman and contradict (532-4) Do you think God will leave something on wich He insists all through Quran to his random thinking ?
JK- Normal human is a very nebulous term. In one sense or another the president, prime minister, top scientist, king etc are not necessarily normal humans but humans nontheless, however you decide to define "normal". Muhammad was a human being who ate and drink with no special biological powers as with all other human messengers who had these necessities. In this sense he was normal human. Otherwise he was endowed with special revelation from GOD and in that sense he did not speak of his own desire. If you mean to say that he never spoke anything false or of his own desire in his entire life THEN you're contradicting 3337. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- He is IMU and many of those who frequent tis forum much more in accordance with reason and logic as any so called islamic scholar who follows hadith. Ofcourse you can deny that but for me and others this stands out as fact and tI say this despite my strong disagreements with Ayman on some points.
Good for you but for me, with all due respect, he's nobody. I think now I "talk" with you so let the man alone, unless he come and join our discussion then we can talk.
JK- Just because something appears "full of shit" to you doesnt mean it is so. What the main page is stating is Islam IN THE QURANIC SENSE WITHOUT THE INDLUENCE OF HADITH AND AS WE MOSLY UNDERSTAND IT VS sunni AND shia. Cause we want to distinguish ourslves from them. As for the points those are the actual differences between us and them so what is wrong? Or do you find anything stated there which either sunnis or shias do not follow but the page says it does? If so point it out and we will correct it accordingly. GOD Bless!
First of all, the fact to associate shiia and sunni is a great error. Even if I consider quran-aloners as muslims I can't consider Shiia as muslims but this is another story.
Second, I'll open a thread discussin this.
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Peace "Badr",
Good for you but for me, with all due respect, he's nobody. I think now I "talk" with you so let the man alone, unless he come and join our discussion then we can talk.
JK- Fair enough.
First of all, the fact to associate shiia and sunni is a great error. Even if I consider quran-aloners as muslims I can't consider Shiia as muslims but this is another story.
JK- The only reason we mentioned both of you together vs us is because both of you follow hadith in one way or another, both of you mention Muhammad in salat and both of you have similar VIOLENT sharia elements that you'd like to see carried out world wide. AND ALSO not to forget when "Muslims" talk about how big they are in terms of numbers worldwide OFCOURSE SHITTES ARE INCLUDED. This is why we calssified you as one against us. And then you even kill each other because each one calls the other a kaafir. There is no mass conversion from shia to sunni or vice versa. Each stays in his/her own group depending on where he/she was born. From the perepctive of the outsider neither one nor the other makes much more sense since for every absurdity of one side the other has an equal absurd reponse. GOD Bless!
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JK- The only reason we mentioned both of you together vs us is because both of you follow hadith in one way or another, both of you mention Muhammad in salat and both of you have similar VIOLENT sharia elements that you'd like to see carried out world wide. AND ALSO not to forget when "Muslims" talk about how big they are in terms of numbers worldwide OFCOURSE SHITTES ARE INCLUDED. This is why we calssified you as one against us. And then you even kill each other because each one calls the other a kaafir. There is no mass conversion from shia to sunni or vice versa. Each stays in his/her own group depending on where he/she was born. From the perepctive of the outsider neither one nor the other makes much more sense since for every absurdity of one side the other has an equal absurd reponse. GOD Bless!
False, shiia are 150 000 000 out of 1.400 000 000 muslims in the world. Like 10%.
http//people.wku.edu/daniel.reader/110stuff/NASWA/sunni-shia-world-distribution.jpg
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Peace "Badr",
False, shiia are 150 000 000 out of 1.400 000 000 muslims in the world. Like 10%.
http//people.wku.edu/daniel.reader/110stuff/NASWA/sunni-shia-world-distribution.jpg
JK- When did I say shittes were the majority. I just said that when "muslims" boast their numbers they include the shiittes. Besides majority doesn't make authority otherwise Christianity wold the most accurate religion. GOD Bless!
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SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 12, Number 723
Narrated 'Ubada bin As-Samit Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever does not recite Al-Fatiha in his prayer, his prayer is invalid."SAHIH MUSLIM Book 4, Number 1005 'A'isha reported The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to begin prayer with takbir (saying Allah-o-Akbar) and the recitation "Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Universe." When he bowed he neither kept his head up nor bent it down, but kept it between these extremes; when he raised his head after bow- ing he did not prostrate himself till he had stood erect; when he raised his head after prostration he did not prostrate himself again till he satup. At the end of every two rak'ahs he recited the tahiyya; and he used to place his left foot flat (on the ground) and raise up the right; he prohibited the devil's way of sitting on the heels, and he forbade people to spread out their arms like a wild beast. And he used to finish the prayer with the taslim.
SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 12, Number 791
Narrated Muhammad bin 'Amr bin 'Ata' I was sitting with some of the companions of Allah's Apostle and we were discussing about the way of praying of the Prophet. Abu Humaid As-Saidi said, "I remember the prayer of Allah's Apostle better than any one of you. I saw him raising both his hands up to the level of the shoulders on saying the Takbir; and on bowing he placed his hands on both knees and bent his back straight, then he stood up straight from bowing till all the vertebrate took their normal positions. In prostrations, he placed both his hands on the ground with the forearms away from the ground and away from his body, and his toes were facing the Qibla. On sitting In the second Rak'a he sat on his left foot and propped up the right one; and in the last Rak'a he pushed his left foot forward and kept the other foot propped up and sat over the buttocks "SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 12, Number 702
Narrated Salim bin 'Abdullah My father said, "Allah's Apostle used to raise both his hands up to the level of his shoulders when opening the prayer; and on saying the Takbir for bowing. And on raising his head from bowing he used to do the same and then say "Sami a-l-lahu Liman hamida, Rabbana walaka-l-hamd." And he did not do that (i.e. raising his hands) in prostrations.SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 12, Number 707
Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd The people were ordered to place the right hand on the left forearm in the prayer. Abu Hazim said, "I knew that the order was from the Prophet."SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 2, Book 22, Number 311
Narrated Abu Huraira It was forbidden to pray with the hands over one's hips.SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 12, Number 709
Narrated Anas bin Malik The Prophet said, "Perform the bowing and the prostrations properly. By Allah, I see you from behind me (or from behind my back) when you bow or prostrate."SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 10, Number 509
Narrated Anas The Prophet said, "Do the prostration properly and do not put your fore-arms flat with elbows touching the ground like a dog. And if you want to spit, do not spit in front, nor to the right for the person in prayer is speaking in private to his Lord."SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 12, Number 773
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas The Prophet was ordered (by Allah) to prostrate on seven parts and not to tuck up the clothes or hair (while praying). Those parts are the forehead (along with the tip of nose), both hands, both knees, and (toes of) both feet.SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, Book 12, Number 786
Narrated Malik bin Huwairith Al-Laithi I saw the Prophet praying and in the odd Rakat, he used to sit for a moment before getting up.SAHIH MUSLIM Book 4, Number 0953 Al-Bara' b. 'Azib reported I noticed the prayer of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) and saw his Qiyam (standing), his bowing, and then going back to the standing posture after bowing, his prostration, his sitting between the two prostrations, and his prostration and sitting between salutation and going away, all these were nearly equal to one another.
SAHIH MUSLIM Book 4, Number 0999 Al-Bira' (b. 'Azib) reported The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said . When you prostrate yourself, place the palms of your hands on the ground and raise your elbows.
SAHIH MUSLIM Book 4, Number 0970 Ibn 'Abbas reported The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) drew aside the curtain (of his apartment) and (he saw) people in rows (saying prayer) behind Abu Bakr. And he said Nothing remains of the glad tidings of apostlehood, except good visions which a Muslim sees or someone is made to see for him. And see that I have been forbidden to recite the Qur'an in the state of bowing and prostration. So far as Ruk'u is concerned, extol in it the Great and Glorious Lord, and while prostrating yourselves be earnest in supplication, for it is fitting that your supplications should be answered.
SAHIH MUSLIM, Book 4, Number 0822
'A'isha reported The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) fell ill and some of his Companions came to inquire after his health. The Messenger of Allah (may peace he upon him) said prayer sitting, while (his Companions) said it (behind him) standing. He (the Holy Prophet) directed them by his gesture to sit down, and they sat down (in prayer). After finishing the (prayer) lie (the Holy Prophet) said The Imam is appointed so that be should be followed, so bow down when He bows down, and rise up when he rises up and say (prayer) sitting when he (the Imam) says (it) sitting.SAHIH BUKHARI, Book 20, Number 218
Narrated 'Imran bin Husain had piles, so I asked the Prophet about the prayer. He said, "pray while standing and if you can't, pray while sitting and if you cannot do even that, then pray Lying on your side."SAHIH BUKHARI, Book 20, Number 220
Narrated 'Aisha (the mother of the faithful believers) Allah's Apostle (in his last days) used to pray sitting. He would recite while sitting, and when thirty or forty verses remained from the recitation he would get up and recite them while standing and then he would bow and prostrate. He used to do the same in the second Rakah. After finishing the prayer he used to look at me and if I was awake he would talk to me and if I was asleep, he would lie down. -
a very brief summary from
http//www.muslimconverts.com/e-books/The_Prophet%27s_Prayer_Described/index.htmAh, so much wisdom to be found in there. hail
He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) was asked about prayer on a ship, so he said, Pray on it standing, unless you are afraid of drowning.
He used to say A man's prayer is cut off when there is nothing such as the end of a saddle in front of him, by a woman, a donkey or a black dog. Abu Dharr said, 'I said "O Messenger of Allaah, why the black dog rather than the red one?" He said, The black dog is a shaytaan.
"He used to stand (in prayer) bare-footed sometimes and wearing shoes sometimes."
He allowed this for his ummah, saying When one of you prays, he should wear his shoes or take them off and put them between his feet, and not harm others with them.
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Ah, so much wisdom to be found in there. hail
He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) was asked about prayer on a ship, so he said, Pray on it standing, unless you are afraid of drowning.
So ?
He used to say A man's prayer is cut off when there is nothing such as the end of a saddle in front of him, by a woman, a donkey or a black dog. Abu Dharr said, 'I said "O Messenger of Allaah, why the black dog rather than the red one?" He said, The black dog is a shaytaan.
Refuted because the prophet used to pray with aisha enlacing him. Malik, Abu hanifa and Al Chafii refuted this hadith.
"He used to stand (in prayer) bare-footed sometimes and wearing shoes sometimes."
yes and ?
He allowed this for his ummah, saying When one of you prays, he should wear his shoes or take them off and put them between his feet, and not harm others with them.
Hopefully nowerdays people leave their shoes outside the mosque.