"Badr" in this thread I'd like to ask you some questions that come to my mind!
-
Peace "Badr",
JK- Ayman does not use hadith to understand the Quran.
Yes this is what I meant, you do know a scholar/guru that explains the quran not according to hadith.... forget it !
JK- Correct but when I once pointed this out to a MUFTI(one eligible to give a fatwa and hecne a very high degree of scholar) he told me with a straight face "NO ONE other than Muhammad is known as "uswattun hassna" in the Quran". Ask some "scholars" in your region without telling them the verse and see what they'll tell you. NEXT question
- Is Muhammad the best/highrest/most honorable amongst all messengers according to hadith?
GOD Bless!
He probabely is, I barely remember a hadith where he "humbly" pointed someone better than him but I dont remember who. But I'm sure that you are goin to enlight me.
PS when it comes to judgement day ; ( ٍ
-
Peace "Badr",
Yes this is what I meant, you do know a scholar/guru that explains the quran not according to hadith.... forget it !
JK- When i said scholar and havnt put it in brackets then my mistake. I meant those "scholars" who accept hadith and sunnah as an integral part of islam.
He probabely is, I barely remember a hadith where he "humbly" pointed someone better than him but I dont remember who. But I'm sure that you are goin to enlight me.
PS when it comes to judgement day ; ( ٍ
JK- Yes there are these hadith and any rational person woud see them as contradictory. There is nothing humble here(not that I beleive that the real Quranic Muhammad ever said any of it). The hadith states
"I am the most honorable messenger, on the day of the judgment only I will think of my people" (Bukhary 97/36).Just look at rhe bluntness and arrogance of this statement. Then yes there is another hadith where Muhammad supposedly compares himself to Jonah
"Do not make any distinction among the messengers; I am not even better than Jonah" (Bukhary 65/4,5; Hanbel 1/205,242,440)".
The being humble is no excuse as then Muhammad would've told a lie in the second hadith since a humble deliberate falsehood is still a lie. The hadith coudlve well said "Although Allah revealed to me that I am the most honorable messenger do you not make any disctinction between messengers. Repect them all, even jonah". If this is the way you resolve contradictions then all contras present in all religious books in the world can be resolved and made to appear consistent.
What tops it all is why do "scholars" prefer the first hadith instead of the 2nd which would also be inline with the Quran whilst the 1st is nowhere to be supported by the Quran? GOD Bless!
-
is it your opinion he should have killed them or do you have any evidence from hadith or that other 'minimum' book?
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. This page shows seven parallel translations in English for the 67th verse of chapter 8 (srat l-anfl). Click on the Arabic text to below to see word-by-word details of the verse's morphology.
Go
Chapter ( srat l-anfl (The Spoils of War)Sahih International It is not for a prophet to have captives until he inflicts a massacre in the land. Some Muslims desire the commodities of this world, but Allah desires the Hereafter. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
Pickthall It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Yusuf Ali It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
Shakir It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Muhammad Sarwar The Prophet is not supposed to take any captives to strengthen his position on the earth. You want worldly gains but God wants the life hereafter for you. God is Majestic and All-wise.
Mohsin Khan It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
Arberry It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land. You desire the chance goods of the present world, and God desires the world to come; and God is All-mighty, All-wise.
-
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. This page shows seven parallel translations in English for the 67th verse of chapter 8 (srat l-anfl). Click on the Arabic text to below to see word-by-word details of the verse's morphology.
Go
Chapter ( srat l-anfl (The Spoils of War)Sahih International It is not for a prophet to have captives until he inflicts a massacre in the land. Some Muslims desire the commodities of this world, but Allah desires the Hereafter. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
Pickthall It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Yusuf Ali It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
Shakir It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Muhammad Sarwar The Prophet is not supposed to take any captives to strengthen his position on the earth. You want worldly gains but God wants the life hereafter for you. God is Majestic and All-wise.
Mohsin Khan It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
Arberry It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land. You desire the chance goods of the present world, and God desires the world to come; and God is All-mighty, All-wise.
So he can't have captives of war UNTIL there has been a battle, which there was at Badr so he could then have captives. Nothing said he should have killed those captives.
-
Peace "Badr"
back!
he kept the prisonniers of badr (not me ) alive while he should have killed them.
JK- Forgiveness can be much more reqrding and since these prisoners were not directcly do attacking him anymore this was the right thing to do. But actually I meant a serious mistake like fearing the people more than GOD. So did he do such? GOD Bless!
-
Peace "Badr"
JK- Forgiveness can be much more reqrding and since these prisoners were not directcly do attacking him anymore this was the right thing to do. But actually I meant a serious mistake like fearing the people more than GOD. So did he do such? GOD Bless!
fearing the people in which sens ? are you talking about the blind person who he ignored because he was with the big heads of Qureish ?
-
Peace "Badr"
fearing the people in which sens ? are you talking about the blind person who he ignored because he was with the big heads of Qureish ?
JK- No BUT that too was a rather serious mistake wasn't it and even a rather serious one i.e. ignoring a blind man and giving more attention to a rich one? But I meant something even more serious where it is stated that he actually feared the people more than GOD. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "Badr"
JK- No BUT that too was a rather serious mistake wasn't it and even a rather serious one i.e. ignoring a blind man and giving more attention to a rich one? But I meant something even more serious where it is stated that he actually feared the people more than GOD. GOD Bless!
No I don't see where Muhammad feared people more than God.
Maybe you interpret it so and I interpret it otherwise.
-
Peace "Badr",
No I don't see where Muhammad feared people more than God.
Maybe you interpret it so and I interpret it otherwise.
JK- The verse states so pretty clearly. I'll post the verse
Pickthall 3337 And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him....
GOD Bless!
-
Peace "Badr",
JK- The verse states so pretty clearly. I'll post the verse
Pickthall 3337 And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him....
GOD Bless!
That's what I thought, the wife's episode. Of course if you don't know the story -because you don't consult the hadeeths- so you have no idea of what it is about. If you interpret the verse raw you will think 'OMG he feared men more than allah' )
-
That's what I thought, the wife's episode. Of course if you don't know the story -because you don't consult the hadeeths- so you have no idea of what it is about. If you interpret the verse raw you will think 'OMG he feared men more than allah' )
Muhammad (SAW) was not perfect. That is an important thing to remember.
Now according to 661 it is something to do with pleasing Muhammad?s (SAW) wives. Apparently he was unable to be equitable with them according to an oath which Allah (swt) then freed him from (or was it the sharing of the secret which was itself unequitable). It is not explicit but we know that he prohibited himself from something in attempting to please his wives. He had promised his wife something which ran counter to God?s will, and here she was admonished for holding him to it. But overall the problem was first with Muhammad (SAW) confiding a secret (clearly the oath) to one of his wives which ran counter to the right Way. Now his wife held him to this or at least made it known (to another wife), and this combination of secrecy and disobedience led to an important point about family life (the ayah following). 666 is the pith, and now if you read the Qur'an (and nothing but Qur'an) you will get Allah's (swt) guidance (the Message).
Khuda hafiz
-
Peace "Badr",
That's what I thought, the wife's episode. Of course if you don't know the story -because you don't consult the hadeeths- so you have no idea of what it is about. If you interpret the verse raw you will think 'OMG he feared men more than allah'
JK- I know what the hadith say. As I said I was a sunni. How Zeid's wife desired Muhammad and so GOD wanted her to leave Zeid and be with him. This does NOT change anything because Muhammad wanted her to be married to Zeid KNOWING that that's not what GOD wanted. Which makes perfect sense coz an unhappy relationship can elad to a distater and instead of them being honest and seprating, one partner could later cheat on the other making the whole problem worse. Muhammad at that time feared what his people would say coz people had in their minds that marrying your adopted son's wife is an abomination or something like that.
SO whatever the story behind it what is clear is that Muhammad feared the people when GOD had a better right to be feared. WHY ELSE would GOD highlight this part of the story in the Quran and leave most the rest of it out? USE LOGIC AND REASON. GOD Bless! -
Muhammad (SAW) was not perfect. That is an important thing to remember.
Now according to 661 it is something to do with pleasing Muhammad?s (SAW) wives. Apparently he was unable to be equitable with them according to an oath which Allah (swt) then freed him from (or was it the sharing of the secret which was itself unequitable). It is not explicit but we know that he prohibited himself from something in attempting to please his wives. He had promised his wife something which ran counter to God?s will, and here she was admonished for holding him to it. But overall the problem was first with Muhammad (SAW) confiding a secret (clearly the oath) to one of his wives which ran counter to the right Way. Now his wife held him to this or at least made it known (to another wife), and this combination of secrecy and disobedience led to an important point about family life (the ayah following). 666 is the pith, and now if you read the Qur'an (and nothing but Qur'an) you will get Allah's (swt) guidance (the Message).
Khuda hafiz
Peace "Badr",
JK- I know what the hadith say. As I said I was a sunni. How Zeid's wife desired Muhammad and so GOD wanted her to leave Zeid and be with him. This does NOT change anything because Muhammad wanted her to be married to Zeid KNOWING that that's not what GOD wanted. Which makes perfect sense coz an unhappy relationship can elad to a distater and instead of them being honest and seprating, one partner could later cheat on the other making the whole problem worse. Muhammad at that time feared what his people would say coz people had in their minds that marrying your adopted son's wife is an abomination or something like that.
SO whatever the story behind it what is clear is that Muhammad feared the people when GOD had a better right to be feared. WHY ELSE would GOD highlight this part of the story in the Quran and leave most the rest of it out? USE LOGIC AND REASON. GOD Bless! -
Peace "Badr",
You just mentioned "the wife episode" and there are two such in the Quran 661 and 3337 and he thought you meant 661 of the two. It isn't his fault. Infact I can turn this around and make it your fault for not being more specific. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "Badr",
You havn't answered this question so I'm posting it here again
- Why do you think, whilst the statement "la ilaaha ila-llah/hu" occurs many times in the Quran, IT IS NOT FOLLOWED A SIGNLE TIME BY "Muhammadurrasolullah", NOT EVEN in the sura 47, the very title of which is Muhammad, where too only "la ilaaha ilallah" is mentioned in verse 19?
GOD Bless!
-
Peace "Badr",
You havn't answered this question so I'm posting it here again
- Why do you think, whilst the statement "la ilaaha ila-llah/hu" occurs many times in the Quran, IT IS NOT FOLLOWED A SIGNLE TIME BY "Muhammadurrasolullah", NOT EVEN in the sura 47, the very title of which is Muhammad, where too only "la ilaaha ilallah" is mentioned in verse 19?
GOD Bless!
If you read carefully the Quran you'll realise the "affection" that God gives to Muhammad. While he call all prophets by their names with "Ya Musa" or "Ya Zakariya", he call Muhammad "Ya ayyuha annabi" or associate him to himself with "allahu wa rasooluhu" you can find this one in many verses. So if Allah loves the rasool we can only love him too.
"Say, "O mankind, I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth." (715
Also Chrisitians and jews admit that theres no God but God and you mazke the statement to admit that you follow islam as brought but Muhammad the messenger of God.
Also You witness that Muhammad is THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH not his son and not God himself like christians do.
-
Peace "Badr"
If you read carefully the Quran you'll realise the "affection" that God gives to Muhammad. While he call all prophets by their names with "Ya Musa" or "Ya Zakariya", he call Muhammad "Ya ayyuha annabi" or associate him to himself with "allahu wa rasooluhu" you can find this one in many verses. So if Allah loves the rasool we can only love him too.
"Say, "O mankind, I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth." (715JK- GOD also calls all beleivers "ya ayyuhalazina 'amanu" so that is nothing special. Also for every messenger GOD has something special. For example according to Quran Muhammad had no miracles but the Quran whilst Jesus could raise te dead and Moses turn a stick into a snake etc. As to "obey the messenger" why doesnt he say "Obey Muhammad the messenger"? Ever though about that? i've perhaps already touched on the what I consider fact that this "messenger" in there is not referring exclusively to Muhammad but to all messengers, angels, humans or otherwise to reveal the message of the Quran to the people. Also the Quran itself is symbolically called a messenger
6510 GOD has prepared for them severe retribution. Therefore, you shall reverence GOD, O you who possess intelligence and believed. GOD has sent down to you a message -
6511 a messenger who recites to you GOD's revelations, clearly, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light.Also Chrisitians and jews admit that theres no God but God and you mazke the statement to admit that you follow islam as brought but Muhammad the messenger of God.
Also You witness that Muhammad is THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH not his son and not God himself like christians do.
JK- Why don't you just say "La ilaaha ilallah wal Quranul Kitaabullah" then? That would include Muhammad and all messengers without distincly mentioning his name and would make you distinct from Jews and Christians. GOD Bless!