What is your understanding of these messages?

submitmj

Even though Rashad Khalifa's translation is correct and the one I use, I'm not using it this time for the sole purpose that nobody here can claim translation bias. So, I used Marmaduke Pickthall.

Marmaduke Pickhall Translation

Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them,
A messenger from Allah, READING PURIFIED PAGES
Containing correct scriptures.
Nor were the People of the Scripture divided UNTIL AFTER the clear proof came unto them.
And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion.

It is clear in these verses that the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, Muslims) did not dispute until AFTER the clear proof (of the Quran) was revealed to them. Since, Muhammad did not come with any miracles, we know the proof must refer to the Quranic initials and the math miracle. As well, 982 says it is a Messenger of GOD that is reading these now 'purified pages'. Now, you cannot purify something that is already pure. Therefore, the Quran was corrupted at some time after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Tarnished with the 2 false verses (9128-129). Since, there verse says 'purified pages', we know the false verses would have to be removed. Otherwise, it is still not pure. These verses are very clear. Furthermore, the Arabic word for 'Proof' (Bayyinah) is mentioned 19 times in the Quran.

Do you know what `Elleyyeen' is?
A numerically structured book.
To be witnessed by those close to Me.

Peace

Bahman

Peace.
A.L.R. These (letters) are the proofs of this book of wisdom.
A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture.
A. L. M. R.* These (letters) areproofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound Quran.
T. S. M. (Ta, Seen, Mim)
262 These (letters) constitute proofsof this clarifying scripture.
T. S. These (letters) constitute proofs of the Quran; a profound scripture.
T. S. M.
.These (letters) constitute proofs of this profound book.
A. L. M.
A. L. M These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proofs.
That is Rashad's translation which initiated monotheist based on proof for Quran divinity and secret of those letters.
7430
You may reject it and claim the translation is done in the way to match his discovery.
but her the following is a Hadith follower and his translation.

http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/evidence?db=dictionary
evidence
v dnsShow Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA noun, verb, -denced, -dencing.
?noun

that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.
?verb (used with object)
to make evident or clear; show clearly; manifest He evidenced his approval by promising his full support.
to support by evidence He evidenced his accusation with incriminating letters.
?Idiom
in evidence, plainly visible; conspicuous The first signs of spring are in evidence.
Copied from http//www.openburhan.com/
Yousef Ali avoiding evidence

Yousuf Ali A.L.R. These are the ayats of the Book of Wisdom.

A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture.
Yousuf Ali A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.

A. L. M. R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you
from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
Yousuf Ali A.L.M.R. These are the signs (or verses) of the Book that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.

A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound Quran.
Yousuf Ali A. L. R. These are the Ayats of Revelation,- of a Qur'an that makes things clear.

T. S. M. (Ta, Seen, Mim)
Yousuf Ali These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

| - that| - signs/verses/evidences | - the book| - the clear/the evident/the shown/the explained

These (letters) constitute proofs of this clarifying scripture.

T. S. These (letters) constitute proofs of the Quran; a profound scripture.
Yousuf Ali These are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear;

Yousuf Ali These are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

| - that| - signs/verses/evidences | - the book| - the wise/the judicious (agreeing and speaking the truth/the philosophy/the justice/the knowledge/the patience) (God's name) |

These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
Yousuf Ali (This is) the Revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt,- from the Lord of the Worlds.

S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proof.

So what is your understanding of those messages if you have enough Arabic knowledge ?
Peace
01/12/2010 83625 PM

loxbox13

Even though Rashad Khalifa's translation is correct and the one I use, I'm not using it this time for the sole purpose that nobody here can claim translation bias. So, I used Marmaduke Pickthall.

Marmaduke Pickhall Translation

Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them,
A messenger from Allah, READING PURIFIED PAGES
Containing correct scriptures.
Nor were the People of the Scripture divided UNTIL AFTER the clear proof came unto them.
And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion.

It is clear in these verses that the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, Muslims) did not dispute until AFTER the clear proof (of the Quran) was revealed to them. Since, Muhammad did not come with any miracles, we know the proof must refer to the Quranic initials and the math miracle. As well, 982 says it is a Messenger of GOD that is reading these now 'purified pages'. Now, you cannot purify something that is already pure. Therefore, the Quran was corrupted at some time after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Tarnished with the 2 false verses (9128-129). Since, there verse says 'purified pages', we know the false verses would have to be removed. Otherwise, it is still not pure. These verses are very clear. Furthermore, the Arabic word for 'Proof' (Bayyinah) is mentioned 19 times in the Quran.

Do you know what `Elleyyeen' is?
A numerically structured book.
To be witnessed by those close to Me.

Peace

U see one thing I don't get, in the quran, the quran says , this is a quran in arabic ....
Why rashad didn't put his name in the arabic quran ? ahhh , the arabic original version is protected, he can only use a translation and corrupt it , not purify it, taking verses, inserting his name into parentheses, mistranslating words like okhta wich has only one sens in arabic that means sister to descendant etc.... a mesenger who read purified pages is prophet mohamed, cannot be more purified than when it was coming down by the holy spirit . Satan is playing numbers on a lot of guys , he played numbers on rashad too, or maybe he was his alliy after all, throwing doubt on the purie quran cannot be innocent, he only end up creating a sect , no more

Bahman

U see one thing I don't get, in the quran, the quran says , this is a quran in arabic ....
Why rashad didn't put his name in the arabic quran ? ahhh , the arabic original version is protected, he can only use a translation and corrupt it , not purify it, taking verses, inserting his name into parentheses, mistranslating words like okhta wich has only one sens in arabic that means sister to descendant etc.... a mesenger who read purified pages is prophet mohamed, cannot be more purified than when it was coming down by the holy spirit . Satan is playing numbers on a lot of guys , he played numbers on rashad too, or maybe he was his alliy after all, throwing doubt on the purie quran cannot be innocent, he only end up creating a sect , no more

Peace
First please answer the main topic meaning of those words
Second if you know good Arabic then check this
http//www.submission.org/AP02.htm
Third Please use related topic
Peace.

Bahman

Peace )

Mazhar

Peace.
A.L.R. These (letters) are the proofs of this book of wisdom.
A.L.R. These (letters) are proofs of this profound scripture.
A. L. M. R.* These (letters) areproofs of this scripture. What is revealed to you from your Lord is the truth, but most people do not believe.
A.L.R.* These (letters) are proofs of this scripture; a profound Quran.
T. S. M. (Ta, Seen, Mim)
262 These (letters) constitute proofsof this clarifying scripture.
T. S. These (letters) constitute proofs of the Quran; a profound scripture.
T. S. M.
.These (letters) constitute proofs of this profound book.
A. L. M.
A. L. M These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
S. (Saad), and the Quran that contains the proofs.
That is Rashad's translation which initiated monotheist based on proof for Quran divinity and secret of those letters.
7430
You may reject it and claim the translation is done in the way to match his discovery.

Rashad Khalifa was the cheat of the century. He befooled those who do not wish to learn even elementary information about Arabic and get fascinated playing with digits.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.252p.gif

This is first sentence of 2252. Rashad Khalifa translates it as under
"These are God's revelations. We recite them through you*, truthfully,

Now see this and try to find a variation with the above, what to say of a word, even that of a single vowel.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/3.108p.gif

This is the first sentence of 3108. Rashad Khalifa translates it as under

"These are God's revelations; we recite them to you, truthfully,

Here he did not put the star mark and converted "We" to "we" and "forgot to insert himself here by inserting "through you" and instead used "to you".

And now see another one and try to find a variation with the above two, what to say of a word, even that of a single vowel.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/045.%20Al%20Jasiata/Temp%2001%2045.06.gif

This is the first sentence of 4506. Rashad Khalifa translates it as under

"These are God's revelations that we recite to you, truthfully,

Here again he did not put the star mark and converted "We" to "we" and "forgot to insert himself here by inserting "through you" and instead used "to you".

Above is the proof of his cheating.

Bahman

himself here by inserting "through you" and instead used "to you".
Above is the proof of his cheating.

Peace
Took you long time to show up here but i notice that with all your knowledge of Arabic you are running away from my question posted in detail that if we can use Evidence as is translated in burhan.com instead of proof.
Your response as usual shows your hate and prejudice toward a death believer human that is not here to teach you Arabic. )
He may have made some mistake like prophets and messenger before him

Answer my question not other topic please )

Peace

Mazhar

Peace
Took you long time to show up here but i notice that with all your knowledge of Arabic you are running away from my question posted in detail that if we can use Evidence as is translated in burhan.com instead of proof.
Your response as usual shows your hate and prejudice toward a death believer human that is not here to teach you Arabic. )
He may have made some mistake like prophets and messenger before him

Answer my question not other topic please )

Peace

Peace is upon those who followed the guidance.

Not hate, but undeniable evidences of his deliberate cheating and befooling people who are not conversant with even basic information about Arabic.

See three sentences quoted above whether or not you understand Arabic, you will find that all three are exact mirror of each other in construction. And then see his translations and fraudulent claim. Does that visual proof not convince you about his fraud and cheating nature? Why one wants to remain blind to visible things? Can there be any reason other than worshipping him as idol? Don't worship him, get out of his fascination, sooner better it would be.

Which word of Arabic means proof? See what word he translates as Proof.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170b.gif

Rashad Khalifa O people,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.174a.gif
Rashad Khalifa a PROOF has come to you from your lord,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.174b.gif
Rashad we have sent down to you a profound beacon". 4174

"Burhan" is PROOF and not Ayat.

Bahman

Peace is upon those who followed the guidance.

Not hate, but undeniable evidences of his deliberate cheating and befooling people who are not conversant with even basic information about Arabic.

See three sentences quoted above whether or not you understand Arabic, you will find that all three are exact mirror of each other in construction. And then see his translations and fraudulent claim. Does that visual proof not convince you about his fraud and cheating nature? Why one wants to remain blind to visible things? Can there be any reason other than worshipping him as idol? Don't worship him, get out of his fascination, sooner better it would be.

Which word of Arabic means proof? See what word he translates as Proof.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.170b.gif

Rashad Khalifa O people,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.174a.gif
Rashad Khalifa a PROOF has come to you from your lord,

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/temp%2014%20%204.174b.gif
Rashad we have sent down to you a profound beacon". 4174

"Burhan" is PROOF and not Ayat.

Please
Would you answer the question and let other stuff for another topic
Copied from http//www.openburhan.com/
| - null| - that| - signs/verses/evidences | - the book| - the wise/the judicious (agreeing and speaking the truth/the philosophy/the justice/the knowledge/the patience) (God's name) |
Can we use evidence or not?
Peace.

Mazhar

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.039/1.Aayatena%20Alif%20Ya%20Ya/6.gif singular-plural http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.039/1.Aayatena%20Alif%20Ya%20Ya/8.gif

It neither means PROOF nor EVIDENCE.

Its Root is . The basic perception infolded in the Root is that of any physical mark, indications, or signs which one can perceive and save in memory with reference to its surroundings and dimensions. And what is achieved is bit of information. Nothing can be perceived and stored in memory without relating it to something else. And everything has two aspects, one apparent and visible perceivable through vision, and the other is invisible but integral part of that thing. Therefore this Root signifies any apparent thing inseparable from a thing not equally apparent so that when one perceives the former he perceives the other to a certain extent which he cannot otherwise perceive.

This is the visual side of learning knowledge. The other source of knowing and perceiving things is verbal. When the creator of a thing, who knows absolutely the visible and invisible aspect of that thing, verbally narrates about that thing, such verbal statement is "Ayat" in the true sense of the word.

Anything not visible to eyes or made to be perceived through verbal communication is NOT "ayat". Hearing and vision are the two basic faculties of acquiring information/knowledge.

Bahman

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.039/1.Aayatena%20Alif%20Ya%20Ya/6.gif singular-plural http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.039/1.Aayatena%20Alif%20Ya%20Ya/8.gif

It neither means PROOF nor EVIDENCE.

Its Root is . The basic perception infolded in the Root is that of any physical mark, indications, or signs which one can perceive and save in memory with reference to its surroundings and dimensions. And what is achieved is bit of information. Nothing can be perceived and stored in memory without relating it to something else. And everything has two aspects, one apparent and visible perceivable through vision, and the other is invisible but integral part of that thing. Therefore this Root signifies any apparent thing inseparable from a thing not equally apparent so that when one perceives the former he perceives the other to a certain extent which he cannot otherwise perceive.

This is the visual side of learning knowledge. The other source of knowing and perceiving things is verbal. When the creator of a thing, who knows absolutely the visible and invisible aspect of that thing, verbally narrates about that thing, such verbal statement is "Ayat" in the true sense of the word.

Anything not visible to eyes or made to be perceived through verbal communication is NOT "ayat". Hearing and vision are the two basic faculties of acquiring information/knowledge.

Make it simple and just write the word should be used in English please. )

Bahman

Make it simple and just write the word should be used in English please.

?? .
Google translation
Verse" means signs and symptoms, learn and remember, miracles, the wonder, and is reasoning
http//daneshnameh.roshd.ir/mavara/mavara-index.php?page=%D8%A2%DB%8C%D9%87&SSOReturnPage=Check&Rand=0

http//fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A2%DB%8C%D9%87

http//www.cgie.org.ir/shavad.asp?id=123&avaid=561

Mazhar

?? .
Google translation
Verse" means signs and symptoms, learn and remember, miracles, the wonder, and is reasoning
http//daneshnameh.roshd.ir/mavara/mavara-index.php?page=%D8%A2%DB%8C%D9%87&SSOReturnPage=Check&Rand=0

http//fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A2%DB%8C%D9%87

http//www.cgie.org.ir/shavad.asp?id=123&avaid=561

Generalizations usually distort the true perception of the word.
The basic perception infolded in the Root is that of any physical mark, indications, or signs which one can perceive and save in memory with reference to its surroundings and dimensions. . This word at its own does not mean learning and remember. It causes the initiation of process of learning and remembering, provided one focuses on the physical dimensions of "Ayat" and its relationship to others.

What is mentioned at the end in Persian is not correct, as already mentioned that this word neither means proof nor evidence; rather it refers only to such thing that can be evidenced/watched/observed-demonstrated and thus perceived and lead one to take heed. And evidently consonants of any language and digits are not proof or evidence of anything.

Bahman

Generalizations usually distort the true perception of the word.
The basic perception infolded in the Root is that of any physical mark, indications, or signs which one can perceive and save in memory with reference to its surroundings and dimensions. .

You see that you have no choice unless use those definitions,
So tell us which of those fits into those messages.?

This word at its own does not mean learning and remember. It causes the initiation of process of learning and remembering

That is exactly code 19 does

, provided one focuses on the physical dimensions of "Ayat" and its relationship to others.

Great, just for one time focus into superhuman textual numerical interlocking system is embedded into letters to secure and preserve it.

What is mentioned at the end in Persian is not correct,

If the author knows i used that for supporting God's Miracle he may remove it because believing in Miracle means end to all those man made ideas in Hadith and then loosing all reputation and respect by upper and lower levels.
It is svery difficult for people grown up with parent belief blindly to reject those man made traditional practices as Sunni or Shia or Christine and Jew and all other corrupted religions.
All you can do to be saved is to stay away from this area as God is watching us closely what we do and what we say and He knows our innermost thought. Learn from Ahmed Deedat that wrote such book and when changed his mind he could not deny the fact and he lost his voice to end of life.
If you accept that those letters are clearly with so many evidences every day I know you years of your works which we see part of it in your site could be damaged badly.

as already mentioned that this word neither means proof nor evidence;

Your explanation contradict this, read your own understanding.

rather it refers only to such thing that can be evidenced/watched/observed-demonstrated and thus perceived and lead one to take heed.

All you need is there but needs a mind free from parents belief and a hear free of hate and prejudice. I am of many that has been lead and taken heed just by such Miracle for the path of God Alone Quran Alone.

And evidently consonants of any language and digits are not proof or evidence of anything.

Your denial is based of your false learning and is not late to repent and study Miracle closely, If GW then you can witness it.
Tomorrow is late.

Mazhar

Quote
What is mentioned at the end in Persian is not correct,
If the author knows i used that for supporting God's Miracle he may remove it because believing in Miracle means end to all those man made ideas in Hadith and then loosing all reputation and respect by upper and lower levels.
It is svery difficult for people grown up with parent belief blindly to reject those man made traditional practices as Sunni or Shia or Christine and Jew and all other corrupted religions.
All you can do to be saved is to stay away from this area as God is watching us closely what we do and what we say and He knows our innermost thought. Learn from Ahmed Deedat that wrote such book and when changed his mind he could not deny the fact and he lost his voice to end of life.
If you accept that those letters are clearly with so many evidences every day I know you years of your works which we see part of it in your site could be damaged badly.

Quote
as already mentioned that this word neither means proof nor evidence;

Your explanation contradict this, read your own understanding.

Quote
rather it refers only to such thing that can be evidenced/watched/observed-demonstrated and thus perceived and lead one to take heed.
All you need is there but needs a mind free from parents belief and a hear free of hate and prejudice. I am of many that has been lead and taken heed just by such Miracle for the path of God Alone Quran Alone.

Quote
And evidently consonants of any language and digits are not proof or evidence of anything.
Your denial is based of your false learning and is not late to repent and study Miracle closely, If GW then you can witness it.
Tomorrow is late.

Pl read it again and try to find any sense therein, you will find nothing but studpity confounded.

Bahman

Pl read it again and try to find any sense therein, you will find nothing but studpity confounded.

All ican say you and people like you grown up in brain washing system to slave human abusing name of God and Quran hence you kiss black stone and believe God reside in that black building and radiate light. You are done and you are fossil, all your brain is covered and locked with life time false h learning and can not understand clear and crystal meaning of word of Ayah, you reject even Sunnis burhan.com translation and shia scholars or may write to them to change to your own desire to save your false works for years . such truth can end your empire of bloodshed based on 2 fabricated verses in chapter 9

You are fighting to God not me and Rashad which all is to bring your attention to reality because you do not care about billion naive and oppressed people and all you are doing is to keep your position and stand like god and feed innocent and uninformed masses toward your own desires and understanding.

You are locked badly into your own shell of thinking which reject clear meaning of Ayah and try to explain it when you have no choice to use those words to explain it which i colored for you but seem you are deaf and blind and only thing is your false Shahada and radiating light form stone and mud .
Complete your home page by adding a picture of yours like this one.
http//ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/42553621_mashaalap416.jpg
I refuge into God avoiding Satan

Mazhar

The issue under discussion is about the meanings of word which neither means PEOOF nor Evidence. When 19er fail to defend the naked cheating and fraud of their idol Rashad Khalifa they start indulging in stupid gimmics.

Talk about your thread.

Bahman

The issue under discussion is about the meanings of word which neither means PEOOF nor Evidence. When 19er fail to defend the naked cheating and fraud of their idol Rashad Khalifa they start indulging in stupid gimmics.

Talk about your thread.

Are you Shia or Sunni?

Mazhar

Are you Shia or Sunni?

Neither Shia, nor Sunni, nor designate as Quranist, nor 19er submitter; but I designate myself as Staunch Muslim, believer and follower of Umta Ibrahim hanifa, who believe in and pursue nothing but the Word of Allah as communicated and conveyed through verbal narration permanently recorded in Grand Qur'aan in explicit words.

Bahman

Neither Shia, nor Sunni, nor designate as Quranist, nor 19er submitter; but I designate myself as Staunch Muslim, believer and follower of Umta Ibrahim hanifa, who believe in and pursue nothing but the Word of Allah as communicated and conveyed through verbal narration permanently recorded in Grand Qur'aan in explicit words.

I see you are hiding your idolization too like the meaning of Ayah )
http//sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs688.snc4/62869_159536284073149_100000503349273_452474_2532641_n.jpg
There is another sub cult under your idolized belief) Muslim are those that follow 319 not fabricated 9128 129