Are you an agnostic about the Quran or certain? If certain then why?
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I find it hard to tell people who think criticaly that I am a believer who knows, because after all how can I know 100%.
I supose I can say I am guessing that there is God and that the good interpretation of the Quran is inspired by him.
My question is how many of you claim to know? And how do you know by stiking to the proof?
Personaly, at this stage I can say that I am close to it but not there yet.
Thanks
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thanks Wakas, good article.
Thanks
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Hello Pel,
I think one of the most liberating things I did in my life and personal growth was to recognise my agnosticism - I think it made me a much more humble and fairer person.
But to be honest I always respected agnostics.
Oops - that was another opinion! LOL
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Thanks Arkan. I used to be involved in Deism and when I said that I believe in some sort of Satan like creatures they told me to go for a run and similar stuff.
I am very open minded, so I am prone to changing my mind and that is because I try to understand different perspectives. I am not agnostic about the existence of God and Satan.
I am onlly slightly(now) agnostic about wich system is true. Is it hadith or not, is it maybe some form of Christianity? Is it Judeism? Is it my personal belief?
Right now I believe in the Quran but I am still researching what ever I come across so that in the end when I say I am a muslim it will not be ONLY because my father is one but because I SINCIERLY believe in the Quran to be inspired by true God.
I am also aware that I am not supose to go back and forth in belief and that I have to repent that ASAP because I am unforunately guilty of that sin. I am actualy a litle bit woried because of it!
Thanks
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Hello Pel,
I am very open minded, so I am prone to changing my mind and that is because I try to understand different perspectives.
I am onlly slightly(now) agnostic about wich system is true. Is it hadith or not, is it maybe some form of Christianity? Is it Judeism? Is it my personal belief?
If this is true,
Right now I believe in the Quran but I am still researching what ever I come across so that in the end when I say I am a muslim it will not be ONLY because my father is one but because I SINCIERLY believe in the Quran to be inspired by true God.
It looks like you've already made up your mind because you already have your final destination in view tempt
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Yes, it looks like I am coming close to making up my mind, but thats after years of geting involved in different beliefs. There were times when I was into Budhism, Deism, I was looking into Christianity. There were times when I didn't know what religion I believe in. This went for about 7 years and its only now that I am coming to a closure and it happens to be Islam.
The fact that my ancesters decided Islam is right would have played initialy in how I identify my self but later I went on a journey like I said. There are reasons I believe in God and in the existence of Satan, ofcourse these ideas come from the books originaly but also through my personal experiences i have come to see confirmation of the Quran and at times my faith in any particular book gets shaken and thats what I was writing about.
Yet, I am still keeping contact with others and listening to their theories. After 7 years I should be coming to a closure about what I believe to be true.
Arkan, keep searching. I wouldn't be satisfied with agnosticism. Then again I wouldn't recomend other than theistic religions, but thats me.
Thanks
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Peace Pel, I humbly ask you to please read through some of your own statements carefully
I haven't been very active on this forum lately because of doubts I am having about the Qur'an or actualy about any revealed religion.
At the begining I will mention that I am undecided on wich religion is true. I am sorry to say this but I have to be honest with my self and others. I supose you wouldn't want me any other way.
I find it hard to tell people who think criticaly that I am a believer who knows, because after all how can I know 100%.
Pel, if I'm going to be honest with you, it seems that the following quote
After 7 years I should be coming to a closure about what I believe to be true.
Is betraying your true feelings and beliefs.
I don't know you or what is going on inside you, all I know is from the information you have given me - so could you perhaps be misleading yourself to conclude that you are nearly there?
Arkan, keep searching. I wouldn't be satisfied with agnosticism.
My admission of agnosticism was the most humble and enlightening thing I have ever done in my life - it has made me a very satisfied person - much more satisfied than when I was years ago very much in your situation. I feel it has truly liberated me and allowed me to see things much more clearly than before. How can one possibly seek knowledge and wisdom when they have already concluded 'I KNOW'? All I'm saying is take your time and be careful - because doing otherwise may only lead to you decieving yourself.
Please read carefully and listen to my reasoning, not my opinions or anyone elses for that matter.
If you would like me to clarify on anything further I would be most happy to do that for you.
I truly hope that you find peace and truth Pel.
Regards,
Arkan
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Yet, I am still keeping contact with others and listening to their theories. After 7 years I should be coming to a closure about what I believe to be true.
Why do you feel this need to have total closure? It's just as much about the journey as it is the destination. You're not choosing an employer here. You're not buying a house. It's not some hurdle you have to overcome, and move on from. There is value in the process. Resist the temptation to have it all figured out.
Keep questioning and reflecting. Pray and meditate. Get the answers yourself. Forget everyone else.
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Thasnks CD and Arkan. CD, I supose you are right, I am trying to firmly label my self. Instead I should like you said not rush for the disclosure.
However I do see truth in the Quran according to my reasoning.
Arkan, I have gone through a stage were I was an atheist and or agnostic so I should have some idea of how you are thinking and if thats what you believe than thats what you believe but like I said I am not an agnostic about the existence of a monotheistic God.
Thanks
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Hello Pel,
I think one of the most liberating things I did in my life and personal growth was to recognise my agnosticism - I think it made me a much more humble and fairer person.
But to be honest I always respected agnostics.
Oops - that was another opinion! LOL
Peace brother, i read your posts, cool
y case, I deided to read the quran in a logical and realistic only
I don't believe in miracles, so I don't read all the texts that are taken as miracles by people in the same way.
since I decided to aproach it this way, I realised that the word Miracle isn't even in the quran, nor virgin birth or anything like that.
what happened is, there is too many people who speak arabic, and they think they understand the quran because they think the Quran is in the same language as theirs
well, the masters of deception, deceived millions oand billions through history
the Arabic Dictionnaries , are all made by Persians, not only Ahadiths, and every single arabic dictiannnary made by arabs was burnt by mongolians ( don't u feel something is wrong here ? )
there is not a single hadith narrator, nor arab scholar in the arabic language, by the way, what Arabs don't realise, even the arabic Grammar was made by persians.
Islam that we see now, is a pagan religion.
when you study the quran, you realise that everything is understood backward, not a single word wasn't changed in the meaningpeople don't ask themselves why god use the word 'Kana' wich means past in the modern arabic language, yet god use it for the present and the future. the continuous present.
the islamic quran only, is struggling to understand the quran, but until they realise, that every single word in the quran was changed in the meaning, they will never get to understand the quran in the right way
the quran protected itself by repetitions, therefore , there is too many contradictions and no one adlmit it
a single word is used, it mean something in few verses, and it mean something else in other verses, and yet, they still go to the arabic dictiannarys to understand.exemple, Yad is translated Hand because in modern arabic language it mean hand, but in the quran hands is called Kafayn, and not hands " Aydi " , if you study the quran , Yadayn or Aydi , has only one meaning in every verse, it means TRESURY POSSESSION.
u be amazed how the language of the quran, is an ancient language that has nothing to do with modern arabic, exept in the pronounciation, sounds the same, but every word has a different meaning from one another.
By the way, what people don't realise, Bukhari and other Ahadith book, were written 3 to 5 hundred years ago and not a 1000 years ago, in the time of the ottoman empire, and it was written in north africa, the Maghreb, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco.
yet , the arabs don't realise that the Ahadiths are written with the maghreb countries accent.too much , takes efforts of a big group to study the quran, and no one can study it by hiself, no way, it takes scholarly work, and a group work not a single scholar.
therefore, I believe in the depts of my heart that the Quran is saying clearly in it's language that Jesus wasn't born of a Virgin , and the quran refutes this Idea and call it pagan idea, those who believe in a virgin birth of Isa.
Peace
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Loxbox, can you give an explanation using the Quran how come Jesus had a father and how come the miracles it mentiones are not miracles.
In regards to miracles and Jesus the only thing I can think of is that his preaching was liberating and "blind people could see" for instance is their faith grew so strong because of the prophet that they didn't care about beig blind any more.
As far as the Jesus having a father I can't explain it my self.
I still think that the Quran in regards to things mentioned in this post is ment to be literal.
Thanks
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Peace Loxbox,
I enjoyed reading your post handshake
I was busy writing a reply to your post here - but in light of the subject matter - the meaning of specific words in the Quran - I think it would benefit a large number of people if I wrote an article dealing with this very subject matter - because a great deal of the arguments in this forum are over this very issue! D
Please allow me a day or two in order to collect the necessary sourcework and compile my article.
Peace peace
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I am just going to ad a few more words to this post. First of all I agree with CD in searching for the truth and not leting others influence you if what they say doesn't quite agree with you.
However, I have done my research and I believe in the Quran, not the hadith. I do believe that some hadith may have been the true words of Mohammed but 200 years is a long time, especialy when the life expectancy was much shorter than now.
In order to research hadith following Islam I generaly like to interact with them the hadith folowers and ask them questions. Same with other religions and I am not interested in doing that any more. I am also coming to a closure, not by forcing my self into it but by actualy believing in the Quran.
I am still interested in interfaith movement among all monotheistic religions, so I wont mind going to a Uniting church fo example if a friend invites me, or go make visits to some Sufi services. I say the Uniting church in Australia and some Sufis because they welcome anyone, you don't have to be their follower. Same as we welcome anyone here on this forum.
I am tired of being a border walker, its exhausting and like I said, naturaly I am coming to a closure, naturaly not forcibly.
I believe that the Quran is teaching us to be good people or should I say good believing muslim people who can respect others choice of belief as long as they let us believe and practice our belief.
Salam and thanks
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Loxbox, can you give an explanation using the Quran how come Jesus had a father and how come the miracles it mentiones are not miracles.
In regards to miracles and Jesus the only thing I can think of is that his preaching was liberating and "blind people could see" for instance is their faith grew so strong because of the prophet that they didn't care about beig blind any more.
As far as the Jesus having a father I can't explain it my self.
I still think that the Quran in regards to things mentioned in this post is ment to be literal.
Thanks
Jesus didn' perform any miracle, where are they in the quran ? He didn't raise any dead, not in the litteral sense, he raised the dead nation and dead people just like every other prophet did
giving life to the dead, the quran gave life to the dead nation of ancient arabia.
How can you reject God when you were dead and He brought you to life? 228
about the shape as a form of a bird and wlow in it an it become a bird ? so, give an exemple, a delta plane. small but it's the shape of a bird !
For the rest , it is medicine, curing the leperd or something, it is possible, he was a genius doctor, god gave him a gift in this field, but these are no miracles, and god didn't call them miracles.
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I can't possibly imagine how anyone could believe a book to be ABSOLUTELY certainly to be from God.
I mean Even though we have enormous evidence about many scientific theories, we can never say we possess the absolute truth concerning those laws of the Universe.
The Qur'an is fair enough,- some parables, stories, - at the least it gives us an insight into seventh century Arabia. But to claim that this book, - which doesn't have anything supernatural (unless you are already convinced of it's alleged miracleness), - is the ultimate, final book of God to be a guidance to people till yawm-ul qiyamah, just doesn't make any sense. -
I'm certain.
The reason I'm certain, I don't know about 90% of the quran. The 10% my mind has been able to touch, it has completely devastated me.
How do I know that it is the truth from my lord? I look inside of myself. I am not the kind of person to be distracted by day to day activities, 99.99% of my time is introspection, even while doing things. And I keep an eye on both sides of the story, yet I find myself running back to this book even as my faith in the rest of existence shakes.
There is no need for anything supernatural to prove anything. We have a word for people that require supernatural things to believe in things - idiots. Don't believe me? Open your eyes and look objectively at every claim of "supernatural elements". They all fall apart. The universe is nature, there is no "superuniverse" where there is "supernature".
The same wisdom found in many books of old is the same wisdom found in the quran. The truth is the truth is the truth, no matter where it's from.
The absolute truth is that I exist. Yet then who am I? If I am X, then what is X? If X is Y and Z then what are those? And so on and so forth; Through this process of questioning, one shall find in themselves the light of ALLAH.
You have to put some trust in the damn universe, it's nurturing you all this way. You don't just coincidentally pop onto a planet ravaged by human stupidity and all of a sudden 3 books claiming to be from the universe itself just pop out of nowhere to clear out the rubble. Everything is perfect, what is the origin of this perfection? And what is perfection, if not ALLAH itself!
The factors that make one disbelieve - a lack of hope that the universe has purpose. A feeling of complete separation from the rest of the system, resulting in a knack for greed/accumulation of money for the illusory self under the illusion that this is the one and only life, a lack of introspection and misguidance of the hands of others hiding the simple fact that one is never separate from the universe. Denial of basic logic. You don't need a quran to tell you that if you're wise but alas.
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I am certain about the Infinite Creator, and pick and choose from the Koran (to the best of my overstanding).
Many people on this forum don't like that I do that, but there are just too many inconsistencies from one English translation to the next. That being said, the Infinite Creator has hardwired us to know what is right and what is wrong, so I don't think a book is absolutely necessary (but obviously, some can be helpful) to lead an ethical existence.
