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  4. Quran Syntax question?

Quran Syntax question?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    bkanwar2
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Dear all,

    Question is, these are two nouns here. Is it correct understanding that relation between these, from syntactical point of view is, that of "annexation" or "" or " ".

    Badar

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    • B Offline
      B Offline
      bkanwar2
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      This learning question is sitting here for more than 24 hrs, waiting for any response from learned. Could this silence be taken as agreement?

      Peace,

      Badar

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      • U Offline
        U Offline
        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        I don't get the question or what exactly you want to discuss about such a simple statement...

        bis'mi ( &#1616
        1141 And he said "Embark in it by/in (the) name (of) Allah -- its course and its anchorage.

        bi-is'mi ( &#1616
        961 Read, in/by the name (of) your Lord (i.e. &#1605

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          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Individual%20Ayaat/001.%20Al%20Fateha/Untitled-1.jpg

          Beginning is with Allah's personal name Ar'Reh'maan Who is The Fountain of Infinite Mercy.

          Word by Word Analysis

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          • B Offline
            B Offline
            bkanwar2
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            So Mazhar, it appears atleast, you agree that the reationship is of "annexation" or "" or " ". Am I correct?

            Badar

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            • M Offline
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              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              So Mazhar, it appears atleast, you agree that the reationship is of "annexation" or "" or " ". Am I correct?

              Badar

              hmm

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              • B Offline
                B Offline
                bkanwar2
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Why everbody is shy about giving a straight answer to a simple question. I am not asking or presenting any of my linguistic research. It is a question about simple application of established rules of Arabic grammar. All who claim to understand Quranic text with out having to rely upon underlying translations. For them should be no issue. Am I missing something?

                Peace,

                Badar

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                • M Offline
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                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  What can be more straight and simple answer than graphic depiction and link to word by word analysis? Did you not find anwer therein?

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                  • B Offline
                    B Offline
                    bkanwar2
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Dear Mazhar Noorani, when you put vague pictures instead of a simple answer. It does create confusion. So could we call this a or subject?

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                    • M Offline
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                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Dear Mazhar Noorani, when you put vague pictures instead of a simple answer. It does create confusion. So could we call this a or subject?

                      I don't know why are you so confused. It is written there that is a prepositional phrase. is placed after this. Therefore your question is primarily that whether the Prepositional phrase is the -subject of the whole sentence.

                      Prepositional phrase does not represent the -subject. Try to see the link.

                      Now consider two persons confronting each other, one says to the other; "You please read the presented Book with the Name of your Sustainer Lord". Do you think that the other man needs to say, while opening the Book, "Well I read the Book, or I start reading the Book" or he should straight say that while starting doing what he has been asked to do? May be this clarifies to you the concept of elisions in a written text.

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        mmkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Salaam bkanwar2 or Badar,

                        Dear all,

                        Question is, these are two nouns here. Is it correct understanding that relation between these, from syntactical point of view is, that of "annexation" or "" or " ".

                        Badar

                        As per my knowledge

                        Bi = Harf-e-jar
                        Ism(i) = Mudhaaf
                        Allah(i) = Mudhaaf-e-ilaih

                        It is Murakkab-e-idhaafi

                        Because,

                        1- Mudhaaf ALWAYS carry 'Zamma' on its ending letter
                        2- Mudhaaf-e-ilaih ALWAYS carry 'Kasra' on its ending letter

                        In this case, it has to be 'Ism-u Allah-i' as in 6118

                        6118

                        but because of 'BI' , instead of 'Ism-u' Mudhaaf became 'Ism-i' as in 297, 1058, etc...

                        297

                        1058

                        Hope this help, inshaAllah.

                        May Allah increase us all in true knowledge pr
                        Mohammed M. Khan

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                        • M Offline
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                          Mazhar
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          As per my knowledge

                          Bi = Harf-e-jar
                          Ism(i) = Mudhaaf
                          Allah(i) = Mudhaaf-e-ilaih

                          It is Murakkab-e-idhaafi

                          Because,

                          1- Mudhaaf ALWAYS carry 'Zamma' on its ending letter
                          2- Mudhaaf-e-ilaih ALWAYS carry 'Kasra' on its ending letter

                          Since it could be little misleading, a little correction;

                          Consonant + Short vowel = Inseparable preposition/
                          Ism(i)=

                          Consonant + Consonant + Short vowel = Rare Arabic Noun in original construction. Noun Definite; masculine; singular; genitive. And it is definite since it is in relation with following definite noun Possessed Noun;

                          Allah(i)=

                          Possessive Phrase-

                          • The noun that is possessed comes first, and is called

                          ** The noun that is the possessor comes second/after, and is called

                          *** The first and the second noun worry about their own gender and plurality.

                          **** If the second noun is definite, the first noun derives its definiteness from the second noun.

                          ***** Since the first noun derives its definiteness from the second definite noun, therefore, in possessive phrase the first noun will never have definite article, and nor "nunation/ .

                          ****** The which is the suffix for duality and masculine sound plurality will also drop.

                          ******* The first noun, whatever its grammatical state may be, which is determined by external factors, like it is genitive here because of prefixed preposition; this relationship/- will always render the second noun in the genitive case.

                          Word by word analysis

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                          • B Offline
                            B Offline
                            bkanwar2
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            I don't know why are you so confused. It is written there that is a prepositional phrase. is placed after this. Therefore your question is primarily that whether the Prepositional phrase is the -subject of the whole sentence.

                            Prepositional phrase does not represent the -subject. Try to see the link.

                            Dear Mazhar, are you implying by red above that the is actually this part ?

                            Salaam bkanwar2 or Badar,

                            As per my knowledge

                            Bi = Harf-e-jar
                            Ism(i) = Mudhaaf
                            Allah(i) = Mudhaaf-e-ilaih

                            It is Murakkab-e-idhaafi

                            Because,

                            1- Mudhaaf ALWAYS carry 'Zamma' on its ending letter
                            2- Mudhaaf-e-ilaih ALWAYS carry 'Kasra' on its ending letter

                            In this case, it has to be 'Ism-u Allah-i' as in 6118

                            6118

                            but because of 'BI' , instead of 'Ism-u' Mudhaaf became 'Ism-i' as in 297, 1058, etc...

                            297

                            1058

                            Hope this help, inshaAllah.

                            May Allah increase us all in true knowledge pr
                            Mohammed M. Khan

                            Brother Khan, thanks for helping. However your statement, "1- Mudhaaf ALWAYS carry 'Zamma' on its ending letter"
                            is not consistent with established rules of Arabic Grammar. Mudhaaf, can have all three irrabs i.e., Zamma, Nasab and Jerr.

                            Badar

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                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              mmkhan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Salaam Badar,

                              Brother Khan, thanks for helping. However your statement, "1- Mudhaaf ALWAYS carry 'Zamma' on its ending letter"
                              is not consistent with established rules of Arabic Grammar. Mudhaaf, can have all three irrabs i.e., Zamma, Nasab and Jerr.

                              Badar

                              I am still a student of Arabic )

                              I was taught that "Mudhaaf always carry 'Zamma' on its ending letter" but if it is "Ism-e-majroor" then its ending letter carries 'Kasra'.

                              Later I may learn what you are talking about, inshaAllah.

                              May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
                              Mohammed M. Khan

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Mazhar
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Dear Mazhar, are you implying by red above that the is actually this part ?

                                It seems you have not read what is explained about the structure of this whole sentence, in Word by Word Analysis link. The sentence has three phrases.

                                These are two phrases; First Prepositional Phrase, second Possessive Phrase. And third is

                                This is Adjectival Phrase.

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                                • B Offline
                                  B Offline
                                  bkanwar2
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  It seems you have not read what is explained about the structure of this whole sentence, in Word by Word Analysis link. The sentence has three phrases.

                                  These are two phrases; First Prepositional Phrase, second Possessive Phrase. And third is

                                  This is Adjectival Phrase.

                                  Dear Mazhar, I have read it time and again. I fully understand that is in Jerr due to particle/preposition "Be". But why can not you give a straight answer for a simple question. Instead, of going in circles. Question is, despite preposition "Be" at the start of the phrase is a or not?

                                  Badar

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Dear Mazhar, I have read it time and again. I fully understand that is in Jerr due to particle/preposition "Be". But why can not you give a straight answer for a simple question. Instead, of going in circles. Question is, despite preposition "Be" at the start of the phrase is a or not?

                                    Badar

                                    Dear Badr, if you really are not blind, what hampers after having read time and again to find it written therein that after truncating "bi" the other two words are Possessive Phrase, and in the diagram too, both words are connected with a curved line beneath which is written Possessive Phrase which is called .

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                                    • B Offline
                                      B Offline
                                      bkanwar2
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Thanks, now could it be considered a nominal sentence?

                                      Badar

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                                      • B Offline
                                        B Offline
                                        bkanwar2
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Seems like, I have asked another difficult question. Although, I am only asking questions, right from the alley of those claimant of knowing Quranic Arabic and its Grammar well.

                                        Peace,

                                        Badar

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Seems like, I have asked another difficult question. Although, I am only asking questions, right from the alley of those claimant of knowing Quranic Arabic and its Grammar well.

                                          Peace,

                                          Badar

                                          Dear Badr,

                                          Questions are usually less difficult, you are more difficult to handle-----as can be observed from these two pages----and in the end you at times abandon the thread.

                                          Please again see the graphic presentation. It is indicated that there is an elided verb before the sentence. And in an earlier reply this was explained, which may shed some light about the delicacies of the sentence

                                          Prepositional phrase does not represent the -subject. Try to see the link.

                                          Now consider two persons confronting each other, one says to the other; "You please read the presented Book with the Name of your Sustainer Lord". Do you think that the other man needs to say, while opening the Book, "Well I read the Book, or I start reading the Book" or he should straight say that while starting doing what he has been asked to do? May be this clarifies to you the concept of elisions in a written text.

                                          I put it this way
                                          or he should straight say that while starting doing what he has been asked to do. From this I understand that this relates to the elided predicate and subject.

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