Trouble With Internal Logic
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Whether you are Sunni, Shia or Qur'an-aloner this question is for you...
"Say I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful."
Qur'an 6145
So it is saying that all foods except the specified are permitted.
"They ask you as to what is allowed to them. Say The good things are allowed to you, and what you have taught the beasts and birds of prey, training them to hunt-- you teach them of what Allah has taught you-- so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of Allah over it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is swift in reckoning.They ask you as to what is allowed to them. Say The good things are allowed to you, and what you have taught the beasts and birds of prey, training them to hunt-- you teach them of what Allah has taught you-- so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of Allah over it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is swift in reckoning."
Qur'an 54
This verse comes immediately after a reprisal of the same prohibitions in 6145. Apparently Sura 5 was revealed after (not immediately) Sura 6. Why do the people ask Muhammad (SAW) what they are permitted if the forbidden foods were already detailed? We know that the good things are the natural produce of the earth, but why does the Qur'an go to the trouble of saying that we are allowed what we have taught the beasts and birds of prey to catch? What is not forbidden is allowed is it not? It sounds like that the Qur'an is stating we are allowed the animals that we hunt, but not the creatures of prey (e.g. those with claws). In 55 it states that the food of the Jews is allowed to us and that our food is allowed them
"This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them;"
Why does it say "this day" (as in "from this day"? The prohibitions were already given in 6145. Even IF Sura 6 came after Sura 5 (which I have never believed) it is still strange that the Qur'an specifies what we can eat whereas in 6145 it is implied that we can eat anything except what is specified. Would it not also be redundant to say that the food of the Jews is allowed to us since their prohibitions were never applied to us?
"And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful."
Qur'an 6146
I do not believe in abrogation since I see no reason why that would be necessary for Allah (SWT) (also I would think that abrogations would be specified).
Allah Hafiz
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There is no need to invoke "abrogation" here. One verse contains one set of statements negating certain things and the other verse contains a separate set of laws allowing different/more specific things. It's as if I say "fetch me a pencil, no green pencils" then you ask me if red pencils are allowed and I say yes. Sure there is redundancy but human language innately contains a very large amount of redundancy, we do not remember everything at once.
Pay attention to the first sentence of 54, that is the reason to your "why". Why does it say "this day"? Do you take issue with that? The day the verse was revealed is "this day", one must remember the quran is not just a book of life to us but also a real time revelation to the people. From then on, anyone reading this verse would note quite obviously that "this day" has passed because the chapter has been revealed and so its content applies to the present moment.
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Good and concise answer OPF. Mashallah. One verse clarifies the issue about the prohibited items, the other clarifies questions about the social and political context or implication of eating the allowed items.
Peace
Edip -
Well I am happy enough with that (I noticed I repeated a verse). I was doing a commentary (from Qur'an-alone perspective) so if anything confuses me then I have to pause. This should be a standard argument for any debating Qur'an-aloner plus a reference for any traditionalists interested in this viewpoint (ignore the actual website)
Sura 1 & 2
http//allpoetry.com/column/show/2364504Sura 3
http//allpoetry.com/column/show/2364515Sura 4
http//allpoetry.com/column/show/2364524Sura 5
http//allpoetry.com/column/show/2364530Sura 6
http//allpoetry.com/column/show/2364611I hope that Edip Yuksel does not mind if I borrowed 2 or so passages from his "19 Questions for Muslims Scholars" in Sura 3 and 5 although they are standard arguments used by all these days. If you do mind Edip then let me know and I will reword (it is about "Question 2 The Same Mistake" and "Obey Allah and his Messenger".
Khuda Hafiz