-=[ Ayyamam maadudaat or a few counted days ]=-
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Salaam,
324 That because they say,"Never will touch us the Fire only days numbered." (ayyman maddtin)
What they were thinking, less than 10 days or short time not ethernity?
2203 And remember Allah in days numbered (ayymin maddtin)
then who hurries in two periods (yawmayni) -- at separate times, some now and rest later.Similar to below when there was no earthly days.
419 in the One Who created the earth in two periods (yawmayni)
4112 So He completed them seven heavens in two periods (yawmayni) -
Salaam SEid,
welcome to the forum
Salaam,
324 That because they say,"Never will touch us the Fire only days numbered." (ayyman maddtin)
What they were thinking, less than 10 days or short time not ethernity?
Hmm ... Thanks for showing me 324 bro.
I think it means "Short time" here, but in case of "Ramadhan" if we take "Short time", then they question arise, how much?
I am trying to understand the usage of "Ayyaman maadudaat" in 2184 and 2203.
2203 And remember Allah in days numbered (ayymin maddtin)
then who hurries in two periods (yawmayni) -- at separate times, some now and rest later.As it is said in 2196, Hajj is for three days (I am not discussing what means 'yawm', I know it means a period/day and I am taking it as day in this) so, then whoever hurries in two days...
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Wakas,
You may be interested to know 10 days of abstinence/fasting is quite prominent in early Islam, e.g. see here
http//books.google.co.uk/books?id=oCvf76uT3wMCThank you for the link.
But still I don't agree with 10 days as "ayyaamam maadudaat". Is there anything from AlQuraan that we can find how many days "ayyaamam maadudaat" means? Or it means just few days and we are free to chose how many we want? &
I am sure there must be clarification about it in AlQuraan.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and increase us all in true knowledge pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Peace
My understanding is that if God wanted to say ten days, He would've. I think that "ayyamam maadudaat" may be a discretionary term.
Let's look at 2184 and 185.
In 184, we find the instruction for saum period being "ayyamam maadudaat". We also find that those who are ill or on a journey may make it up at another time. Also those who can do the saum with difficulty are allowed a concession, but it is better to do the saum.
In 185, we find that Ramadan is mentioned and those present in or witnessing it should do the saum. This time the concession for the ill and travellers are the same as in 184. However, no concession is mentioned regarding those who can do the saum with difficulty.
I found these two verses very interesting. First, it seems unlikely that they were revealed at the same time because the repetition of the concession for the ill and travellers wouldn't make sense, especially since the concession for those who can do it with difficulty is not repeated. Second, why is there no concession for those who can do it with difficulty in 185. Third, in 184 we find "ayyamam maadudaat", whereas in 185 we find that those who are present in Ramadan or witness it should do the saum. The end of the verse says that God wants us to complete the number.
When I thought about these things, it occurred to me that as with many concepts, the evolutionary stages of development of different communities must be taken into consideration when studying the Quran. Therefore I consider it a possibility that verse 184 refers to a community or individuals who have not practised saum due to either neglecting previous instruction to do it or not being aware of it. In these cases, people should try it for a few days, with certain cocessions given. Verse 185 would then refer to communities or individuals who have developed further and are able to do the saum with much more ease. They would then do the saum for a full month. Also there would then no longer be concession for those who could only do it with difficulty before as they are now used to the saum. Remember that in verse 184 they were told it would be better for them if they did the saum.
So I see 184 as instructing a discretionary number of days, while 185 instructs for a full month.
As for completing the number being described in 2196, I think this refers to a different context or a diiferent saum.
Imraan
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Salaam 1LNF or Imraan,
Peace
My understanding is that if God wanted to say ten days, He would've. I think that "ayyamam maadudaat" may be a discretionary term.
Let's look at 2184 and 185.
In 184, we find the instruction for saum period being "ayyamam maadudaat". We also find that those who are ill or on a journey may make it up at another time. Also those who can do the saum with difficulty are allowed a concession, but it is better to do the saum.
What do you mean by that bro?
2184
2184 A few number of days; however, if any of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.
"Yuteeqoonahu" does not mean "difficulty" but it means "Taaqat" or "Power" or "Energy" or "Capacity" or "Ability", etc.
So, it means "... and on those who have energy/ability of saum , they may redeem by feeding the needy..."
But still one has to complete his counting of saum in other days.
1- If any of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days.
2- On those who have energy/ability of saum, they may redeem by feeding miskeen.
3- It is better for them if they fast .In point no.2 what has to be "redeem" with? Saum? I don't think so, I think "That TIME of Saum" has to be redeem and anyhow he has to complete the counting in other days. This is only for those who has energy/ability to Saum while ill or travelling. Cause, they have energy/ability, but they don't want to Saum at that TIME, so they can redeem their time and fast on other days.
And if they fast during ill or while travelling, if they have energy/ability, that is better for them.
For those who are ill or travelling BUT don't have energy/ability, they simply have to complete their saum in other days.
This is how I understand it.
In this way, 2185 gives a clear picture to me, Alhamdulillah.
Now, one thing ticking in my mind that this particular aayat i.e. 2184 starts with "ayyamam maadudaat", so is that mean it is referring to the ill or travelling period?
As for completing the number being described in 2196, I think this refers to a different context or a diiferent saum.
At the moment, I think the same. handshake
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
The month of ramadan
ayam maadoudate,
... }
2 months -------- 60 miskine
2 months ---------60 daysI believe maadoudate means determined, meaning not someimes 29 sometimes 30 , but always 30, or alway 10 if it is 10 .
2 months fasting, if not, 60 poor people feeding , therefore every one poor person is one day
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Salaaman LB13,
Please give the aayat numbers when you quote them bro.
The month of ramadan
ayam maadoudate,
... }
2 months -------- 60 miskine
2 months ---------60 daysI believe maadoudate means determined, meaning not someimes 29 sometimes 30 , but always 30, or alway 10 if it is 10 .
2 months fasting, if not, 60 poor people feeding , therefore every one poor person is one day
Wow! Great point.
In 583-4
60 days fasting OR 60 poor people feedingIn 2184
1 day fasting OR 1 poor feedingInterestingly in 595 the word "Adl" is used, that means "Equal" as you can in the same aayat below
595
595 O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to value what was killed against the livestock, which shall be judged by two equitable persons from you, and to make it as a donation to reach the Base. Or, its expiation shall be in using it to feed the needy ones, while he abstains from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; Allah forgives what has past. And whoever returns, then Allah will seek vengeance on him. Allah is Noble, capable of vengeance.
Either feed the needy or fast EQUAL to that as in 583 and 2184. But... 589
589
589 Allah will not hold you for your casual oaths, but He will hold you for what oaths you have made binding; its cancellation shall be the feeding of ten poor from the average of what you feed your family, or that you clothe them, or that you free a slave; whoever cannot find such shall fast for three days; this is a cancellation for making your oaths when you swear. And be careful from making oaths. It is such that Allah clarifies for you His revelations that you may be thankful.
Why is that? Does it mean
1- What is mentioned in 589 is less important than others mentioned in 2184, 595 and 583?
OR
2- We are feeding a NORMAL FOOD to poor as we eat in 589 and we have to do the other way in other aayaats?
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth and open our hearts to understand it correctly pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Peace Mohammed
What do you mean by that bro?
2184
2184 A few number of days; however, if any of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.
"Yuteeqoonahu" does not mean "difficulty" but it means "Taaqat" or "Power" or "Energy" or "Capacity" or "Ability", etc.
Whatever one takes "Yuteeqoonahu" to mean, it would include the ability to do that which is being referred to in the verse. Still, why no repetition of the second concession in verse 185.
The other thing is that if we view the redemption as feeding a poor man, what does a poor man do if he finds himself in this position as he would qualify to be fed, but does not have the ability to feed himself, let alone someone else? Is this concession only for rich people? This is something that I think needs to be investigated throughout the Quran because there are many places that seem to only allow for rich people to get away with things. This does not seem just to me, but that is another discussion.
In point no.2 what has to be "redeem" with? Saum? I don't think so, I think "That TIME of Saum" has to be redeem and anyhow he has to complete the counting in other days. This is only for those who has energy/ability to Saum while ill or travelling. Cause, they have energy/ability, but they don't want to Saum at that TIME, so they can redeem their time and fast on other days.
And if they fast during ill or while travelling, if they have energy/ability, that is better for them.
For those who are ill or travelling BUT don't have energy/ability, they simply have to complete their saum in other days.
Even in this understanding, why no repetition of the second concession in verse 185.
I still see the two verses as being progressive according to developmental evolutionary stages of different communities.
Imraan
