Is hell going to be eternal for anyone acording to the Quran
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I have just looked into the Quran, a reformist translation. Personaly I am not into 19 thing, however I bought the book so I thought I might look into it a bit. Acording to Edip we, or anyone else won 't be tormented for eternity in hell.
I personaly believe that the Quran very clearly states that the torment is for ever and that there is no respite from it. The following verse woud confirm that And than those who were wicked will see the retribution; it will not be lightened eor them, nor will they be given respite. 1865.
At this stage I believe that its most likely eternal. How ebout the rest of you?
Thanks
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I no there is certain Hadith that hint to an appointed time for some, this also found in Christian Apocrypha. From a Quran alone stand point this is a little harder to justify but not impossible.
My personal belief which I could be absolutely wrong about is that in the end everything has to balance. Our good deeds and bad, our hardships and blessings, will all be weighed out (inclusive of actions vs. intentions and repentance). If we fall short we will face the fire of hell for an appointed time, much like a prison sentence. However some could face eternal damnation just like some could face life in prison.
On an off topic note, I was listening to a Christian radio station and the host quoted a verse from Revelations about "all liars" being thrown in the fires of hell. He followed this by saying, "See all of you who believe in global warming which is a fraud...the fires of hell are real. So repent from your liberal, left wind ideology and accept Jesus Christ as your savior."
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My current understanding is that this universe is eternal yet it has a beginning and an end. So at some point, hell will end, as will paradise. Will we be around to observe this end? I sincerely doubt it, as the only thing that will exist at this point is ALLAH. From ALLAH came all, to ALLAH everything returns.
11106 - So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it
11107 - Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends.
11108 - And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.
Now clearly hell is impermanent but paradise is permanent, it will never be lost! What I take this to mean is that hell is eternal but not endless, this is fairly difficult to explain. A hint is that basically the present purpose of our existence is to construct paradise, bit by bit, generation by generation. Those who do bad deeds slow down this by a certain measure, which they will be recompensed for in pain. Some bad deeds make it impossible to ever reach paradise, the measure of such a deed is infinite. For example, those who charge interest are essentially asking for energy faster than even ALLAH can provide (rather, wishes to provide), it's as if they wish to reverse evolution and undo 14 billion years of work as fast as they can!
Yet clearly it is unjust to throw someone in permanent abiding hell for what they did not do in a mere 70 year period of time, if anyone with a brain can see this surely the all-knowing does too!
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Salaam all,
280
281
282280 And they said The Fire will not touch us except for a few number of days. Say Have you taken a pledge with Allah? If so, then Allah will not break His pledge. Or do you say about Allah what you do not know?
281 Indeed, whoever gains a sin, and is surrounded by his mistakes; those are the people of the Fire, they will be in it everlasting.
282 And those who believe and do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, they will be in it everlasting.
And there are many more...
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
I have just looked into the Quran, a reformist translation. Personaly I am not into 19 thing, however I bought the book so I thought I might look into it a bit. Acording to Edip we, or anyone else won 't be tormented for eternity in hell.
I personaly believe that the Quran very clearly states that the torment is for ever and that there is no respite from it. The following verse woud confirm that And than those who were wicked will see the retribution; it will not be lightened eor them, nor will they be given respite. 1865.
At this stage I believe that its most likely eternal. How ebout the rest of you?
Thanks
I read the article, it's more philosophy than proof , to understand this , means we have to understand the arab language, the old language, how did they express themselves. the litteral text say it's eternel , maybe as long as u live, or as long as hell exist , because eternity is only for god. but still, no one of us is a prophet , so it's all philosophy. for now, I take it as eternel as the text says.
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Salaam all,
280
281
282280 And they said The Fire will not touch us except for a few number of days. Say Have you taken a pledge with Allah? If so, then Allah will not break His pledge. Or do you say about Allah what you do not know?
281 Indeed, whoever gains a sin, and is surrounded by his mistakes; those are the people of the Fire, they will be in it everlasting.
282 And those who believe and do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, they will be in it everlasting.
And there are many more...
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. KhanPeace be with you
I am of the opinion that 'heaven' and hell is everlasting / eternal based on the verses cited thus far and from the meaning of khalidun . As we can see from PRL
Kh-Lam-Dal = To remain/stay/dwell/abode, to remain or continue incessantly/always/endlessly/forever/perpetually, to adorn another with ornaments, to be slow in becoming hoary (when advanced in age), endowed with perpetual vigour
khalada vb. (1)
impf. act. 2569, 26129
n.vb. 5034
pcple. act. 225, 239, 281, 282, 2162, 2217, 2257, 2275, 315, 388, 3107, 3116, 3136, 3198, 413, 414, 457, 493, 4122, 4169, 580, 585, 5119, 6128, 720, 736, 742, 917, 922, 963, 968, 972, 989, 9100, 1026, 1027, 1123, 11107, 11108, 135, 1423, 1629, 18108, 2076, 20101, 218, 2134, 2199, 21102, 2311, 23103, 2516, 2576, 2958, 319, 3365, 3972, 3973, 4076, 4371, 4374, 4614, 4715, 485, 5712, 5817, 5822, 5917, 649, 6410, 6511, 7223, 986, 988khuld n.m. 1052, 21120, 2134, 2515, 32!4, 4128
khallada vb. (2) pcple. pass. 5617, 7619
akhlada vb. (4) perf. act. 7176, 1043
LL, V2, p 419, 420
By the way , when is eternal but not everlasting ? Even if the scientists approximated that the age of the universe is only 14 billion years old , it doesn not mean that there was no universe of Allah before then .
Peace
almarh0m
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I would understand the saying "Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un" as meaning that eventually God will summon the residents of hell back to return to him, even if it does take thousands of millions of years.
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Salaam almarh0m,
I am of the opinion that 'heaven' and hell is everlasting / eternal based on the verses cited thus far and from the meaning of khalidun . As we can see from PRL
Thank you for all the references.
And also you can look at 4169-170
4168
41694168 Those who have rejected and did wrong, Allah was not to forgive them, nor guide them to a path.
4169 Except to the path of Hell, they will be everlasting therein eternally. For Allah this is very easy.'Abada' is also used with 'Khalideena'
By the way , when is eternal but not everlasting ? Even if the scientists approximated that the age of the universe is only 14 billion years old , it doesn not mean that there was no universe of Allah before then .
???
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
I would understand the saying "Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un" as meaning that eventually God will summon the residents of hell back to return to him, even if it does take thousands of millions of years.
Peace
"80 And they say "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days;" Say "Have ye taken a promise from Allah, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of Allah what ye do not know?"
81 Nay, those who seek gain in evil, and are girt round by their sins,- they are companions of the Fire Therein shall they abide (For ever) " .Peace
almarh0m
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Salaam LD,
I would understand the saying "Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un" as meaning that eventually God will summon the residents of hell back to return to him, even if it does take thousands of millions of years.
2155
2156
21572155 And We will test you with some fear and hunger, and a shortage in money and lives and fruits. And give good news to those who are patient.
2156 The ones who, when afflicted with adversity, they say We are to Allah and to Him we will return.
2157 For those there will be contacts from their Lord and a mercy, they are the guided ones.The one who say "We are to Allah and to Him we will return" are the guided ones , why they will go to hell?
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
I interpret "we" as being all the creatures God has created. I think that is the symbolism of the phrase, what God has created, call will recall. So not just good and bad humans, but everything else in the universe, animals, plants, material things, the angels and the demons. Everything God has created will return to God. Maybe only the righteous people recognise it, but I think it applies to everything.
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Agree with liquiddarma and OPF.
If hell were eternal, everlasting or endless or whatever, then why should the Qur'an say that God is the Most merciful, that the is Al 3adl. Is it justice to punish anybody with a harm that he or she could not commit at all? No man can do on this earth a harm that would account for an eternity of the utmost torment. Only the most wicked of human beings would even think of torturing most cruelly for eternity, without reprieve, forever, everlastingly, endlessly, anybody for any reason, and no human is Most Merciful and forgiver, so where is the most mercifulness there, when the title holder turns out to be meaner than most human beings? I just cannot conceive of that, because either God is lying or the rendering of kh-l-d abandan and other words used to describe hell are badly rendered. As I have said on some other occasions, I think that when the Qur'an says "and there they shall abide (kh-l-d)" what it conveys to me is that they will rot in hell, like when we say somebody will rot in jail, meaning, they will tast the full import of their evil deeds, they will experience the evil that they felt so light when it fell upon others...
And to me as well "Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un" and other expressions like "ilaihi al massir" which are repeated in the Qur'an mean as liquiddarma says that everything eventually devolves to God, naither Paradise nor Hell can be eternal, because only God is, we are but the fantasy or dream (I wouldn't know a right word for it) of God. Actually we do not have any existence by ourselves. Besides, God created us to worshipt Him, know him. We will worship Him, know him, all of us, because that is what He created us for and He does not fail, therefore we will do as He wants, one way or another. And when we worship God, we are not in hell, but in bliss.
Obviously, to say that "we will not be in the fire but numbered days is sheer stupidity. The fire, even for five minutes is plenty for anybody. Something nobody wants to live even for a one minute. I think what the Qur'an shows there is human stupidity and blindness. And certainly an eternity of that would not even fit the most cruel creature on earth. It is simply unconceivable as a concept.
Salaam
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Agree with liquiddarma and OPF.
If hell were eternal, everlasting or endless or whatever, then why should the Qur'an say that God is the Most merciful, that the is Al 3adl. Is it justice to punish anybody with a harm that he or she could not commit at all? No man can do on this earth a harm that would account for an eternity of the utmost torment. Only the most wicked of human beings would even think of torturing most cruelly for eternity, without reprieve, forever, everlastingly, endlessly, anybody for any reason, and no human is Most Merciful and forgiver, so where is the most mercifulness there, when the title holder turns out to be meaner than most human beings? I just cannot conceive of that, because either God is lying or the rendering of kh-l-d abandan and other words used to describe hell are badly rendered. As I have said on some other occasions, I think that when the Qur'an says "and there they shall abide (kh-l-d)" what it conveys to me is that they will rot in hell, like when we say somebody will rot in jail, meaning, they will tast the full import of their evil deeds, they will experience the evil that they felt so light when it fell upon others...
2082
2082 And I am forgiving for whoever repents and believes and does good works, then is guided.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth pr
Mohammed M. KhanNote Moderators please correct this translation of 2082 as it is missing "And believes" form the translation. It is as follows
2082 And I am forgiving for whoever repents and does good works, then is guided.
instead of
2082 And I am forgiving for whoever repents and believes and does good works, then is guided.
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I understand what you are saying Huruf. However, can you please provide me with the verses from the Quran that say that Hell is not forever.
One of the reasons I stoped beliving in Islam in the past is because of hell and the hadith. But I am not God, niether are you. So our judgment alone is not suficient I would say.
I believe the way to truth is not by engineering God but by uncovering him through scripture. Otherwise you can become a Deist and make up a God as you wish.
Thanks
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The thing is that what seems questionable to me is the assumption that Khalid should mean eternal or forever. I do not think it means that, and I don't know why it should be taken to mean that. It may be interesting to compare that with As-Samad. Khalid I understand more to mean staying, something that stays to the point of making that staying have its effect. And this is born out by the fact that we are assured that the return is tu God, that to Him destiny leads. In fact the reality of Hell may be realisation of the utter falseness and delusion those have lived when confronted with the Gods names of Majesty, their utter wretchedness.
If there is no contradiction in the Qur'an, then
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it cannot be that God sais of Himself that He is most merciful and then condemns wholesale for an etrnity of torture those who are His own creation. Obviously He can, but then nobody would call that merciful, and least of all most merciful, particularly when He guides whom He wills.
If evrything return to Him, nobody can stay forever in Hell because everything will reurn to Him.
He created us to worship him, if somebody is not going to worship him then God would have failed or owuld have lied to us, that cannot be so, if God is God such as He reveals himself in the truthful Qur'an.
Kh-l-d has a range of meanings perfectly congruent with what others and I have said, so is the case of a-b-d. Is it really imperative that we should pick the meaning that makes less sense no matter what?
Salaam
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The thing is that what seems questionable to me is the assumption that Khalid should mean eternal or forever. I do not think it means that, and I don't know why it should be taken to mean that. It may be interesting to compare that with As-Samad. Khalid I understand more to mean staying, something that stays to the point of making that staying have its effect. And this is born out by the fact that we are assured that the return is tu God, that to Him destiny leads. In fact the reality of Hell may be realisation of the utter falseness and delusion those have lived when confronted with the Gods names of Majesty, their utter wretchedness.
If there is no contradiction in the Qur'an, then
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it cannot be that God sais of Himself that He is most merciful and then condemns wholesale for an etrnity of torture those who are His own creation. Obviously He can, but then nobody would call that merciful, and least of all most merciful, particularly when He guides whom He wills.
If evrything return to Him, nobody can stay forever in Hell because everything will reurn to Him.
He created us to worship him, if somebody is not going to worship him then God would have failed or owuld have lied to us, that cannot be so, if God is God such as He reveals himself in the truthful Qur'an.
Kh-l-d has a range of meanings perfectly congruent with what others and I have said, so is the case of a-b-d. Is it really imperative that we should pick the meaning that makes less sense no matter what?
Salaam
Makes sense,
siki
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If there is no contradiction in the Qur'an, then
- it cannot be that God sais of Himself that He is most merciful and then condemns wholesale for an etrnity of torture those who are His own creation. Obviously He can, but then nobody would call that merciful, and least of all most merciful, particularly when He guides whom He wills.
If we see it that way then even a millisecond spent in hell is too much time for anyone.
The Most Merciful to those who repent.
If evrything return to Him, nobody can stay forever in Hell because everything will reurn to Him.
Returns to him is about the afterlife being reassembled for judgement then to each accordingly.
He created us to worship him, if somebody is not going to worship him then God would have failed or owuld have lied to us, that cannot be so, if God is God such as He reveals himself in the truthful Qur'an.
If we look at it that way then even one unbeliever past, present, or future is a failure.
Kh-l-d has a range of meanings perfectly congruent with what others and I have said, so is the case of a-b-d. Is it really imperative that we should pick the meaning that makes less sense no matter what?
Yes, it's imperative we take the best meaning realize there a things we cannot comprehend...
37 and those firm in the knowledge, they say, "We believe in it, all from our Lord."
Peace
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Peace
What is the purpose of following "The Guidance" and be a law abiding person if every evil-criminal is going to end up in heaven , just like those who followed the guidance ?
Since when is the failure to understand is = contradiction ? Whether one ends up in heaven or hell is a direct consequence of their deeds during their time on this earth . Please show proof that eternal means temporary or khalidun/abada means a certain length of time only .
Peace
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Assume that life on earth is the chance for human being to learn about its Creator, while hell is punishment for not being able to learn.
Assume that life on earth is finite, while hell is infinite.If you take those above assumptions as true, then you see the problem the "punishment" is (infinitely) greater than the "chance to learn". I take it that for such justification, the "sin" (or whatever is taken as reason for the punishment) done in the finite life on earth must be proportional to the "infinite punishment" for it to be "fair/just" (in the sense of Divine Justice). What is to be judged as proportional, however, is not in the authority of any of us... (in which case i can't comment any further). Isn't that why the concept of hell as a "(Divine,) infinite punishment" is so hard to grasp?
Yes, it's imperative we take the best meaning realize there a things we cannot comprehend...
37 and those firm in the knowledge, they say, "We believe in it, all from our Lord."
Peace
I'm not sure what you meant by that. If one "cannot comprehend", then how could it be "firm in the knowledge"? Just saying "We believe in it" doesn't make one "firm in the knowledge", does it?
What is the purpose of following "The Guidance" and be a law abiding person if every evil-criminal is going to end up in heaven , just like those who followed the guidance ?
Since when is the failure to understand is = contradiction ? Where one ends up in heaven or hell is a direct consequence of their deeds during their time on this earth .
Please don't forget the other 'option' self-destruction --> extinction (i.e. non-existence)
What you refer to as "evil-criminal", i assume, will have some kind of "destructive" tendency. A "destructive" pattern, if continued persistently (i.e. by free-will) will finally lead to its own destruction. To me, this possibility is much more logical than the possibility of a god who creates and re-creates a living being to destruct and re-destruct it, just as the consequence of the existence of "heaven".
What is heaven, by the way? Is our purpose here just to get a ticket to "heaven"? As in, work by following the guidance now, then retire for eternal bliss? No progress whatsoever anymore? I don't think so. And then what is hell? Is it as simple as it seems to be, a "fire" in which some of the creations will be burned in, just like woods in the stove (only repeatedly forever)?
Your question 'Please show proof that eternal means temporary or khalidun means a certain length of time only' can easily be reversed by the other party i.e. 'Please show that khalidun means eternal' (can also be directed to the thread starter). As no one of us will be able to give the ultimate proof, then a consistent & coherent interpretation of the Quran would suffice.
To me personally, the 'Worship Me/or go to hell' notion that i get from some members here just doesn't make sense. I'd rather criticize, than accept anything as is on the base of fear.
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This is a great discussion. I am learning a lot.
A wise person I know once told me that "hell" was separation from G-d. (Isn't that painful? Isn't the worst physical pain we can imagine or have experienced a burning, tearing pain? How painful is that for our soul to experience? Maybe this is just a really good metaphor from G-d. . . however, have you ever lost yourself and felt completely cut off from G-d in this life? Didn't it tear you apart, emotionally?)
She also said that "heaven" was being in the presence of G-d. (Compare any experience you've had of "heaven" (a feeling of unity, or the presence of G-d in your life) and "hell" (that separateness I described above)).
Yes, the Quran says that "to Allah (G-d) we will return.I dunno. . . makes me think. . . "there are signs for those who think". . . Hmm. . . No, I don't know any of these answers, but it does make me think, and it seems that is to be encouraged, from what I've read.
Thanks for this discussion!