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  4. A comparison of two Traditional concepts....

A comparison of two Traditional concepts....

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • WakasW Offline
    WakasW Offline
    Wakas
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    peace all,

    Traditional translations side by side, highlighting the comparison

    2.125
    YUSUFALI Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
    PICKTHAL And when We made the House (at Makka) a resort for mankind and sanctuary, (saying) Take as your place of worship the place where Abraham stood (to pray). And We imposed a duty upon Abraham and Ishmael, (saying) Purify My house for those who go around and those who meditate therein and those who bow down and prostrate themselves (in worship).
    SHAKIR And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.

    Al-Jalalayn "...Purify My House, of graven images, for those that shall go round it and those that cleave to it, in ritual residence..."
    Ibn-Kathir "...purify My House (the Kabah at Makkah) for those who are circumambulating it, or staying (Itikaf)..."

    Versus

    7.138
    YUSUFALI We took the Children of Israel (with safety) across the sea. They came upon a people devoted entirely to some idols they had. They said "O Moses! fashion for us a god like unto the gods they have." He said "Surely ye are a people without knowledge.
    PICKTHAL And We brought the Children of Israel across the sea, and they came unto a people who were given up to idols which they had. They said O Moses! Make for us a god even as they have gods. He said Lo! ye are a folk who know not.
    SHAKIR And We made the children of Israel to pass the sea; then they came upon a people who kept to the worship of their idols They said O Musa! make for us a god as they have (their) gods He said Surely you are a people acting ignorantly

    The word in red (Arabic akif) is the same in 2125 and 7138.

    Moses refused to create a representation of God, and for one to akif an idol is wrong. In fact, in EVERY occurrence of this word in The Quran, being akif to an idol is wrong. See HERE.

    The Traditional understanding has made being akif to the cuboid called Kaabah the exception to The Quranic rule!

    All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Lest someone is hindered or diverted from the true path

      http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/Temp%2001%2022.25a.gif
      Indeed those who deliberately and persistently refused to accept and they hinder/divert people from the path of Allah
      http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/Temp%2001%2022.25.gif
      and from the Al-Masjid Al-Haraam the one We have declared for the people equally for the residents therein and the visitors from outside world;
      http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.25c.gif
      and whoever seeks therein the deviation by distortion and injustice We will make him taste a painful punishment.

      2225

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      • WakasW Offline
        WakasW Offline
        Wakas
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        peace Mazhar,

        Thanks for confirming you cannot refute what I wrote, except by trying to equate like with unlike.

        "residents therein" is a reference to al masjid al haram, not kaabah (which you take to refer to the cuboid in Mecca called Kaabah), as is obvious even from your own translation.

        So, let me help you out, you're trying to refute what I wrote by implying "akif" in 2125 refers to resident in al masjid al haram, when this is not what The Quran says. In other words, you are forced to interpret it another way, otherwise it becomes the exception to The Quranic rule, as I pointed out.

        The most interesting thing from my original post is not the critical problem it poses for al bayt=kaabah, it is that the logical conclusion is that al bayt in this context cannot refer to any man-made representation, which "coincidentally" just so happens to fit perfectly into The Quran. )

        All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          peace Mazhar,

          Thanks for confirming you cannot refute what I wrote, except by trying to equate like with unlike.

          "residents therein" is a reference to al masjid al haram, not kaabah (which you take to refer to the cuboid in Mecca called Kaabah), as is obvious even from your own translation.

          So, let me help you out, you're trying to refute what I wrote by implying "akif" in 2125 refers to resident in al masjid al haram, when this is not what The Quran says. In other words, you are forced to interpret it another way, otherwise it becomes the exception to The Quranic rule, as I pointed out.

          The most interesting thing from my original post is not the critical problem it poses for al bayt=kaabah, it is that the logical conclusion is that al bayt in this context cannot refer to any man-made representation, which "coincidentally" just so happens to fit perfectly into The Quran. &nbsp

          Peace Wakas,

          I do not equate Masjid Al-Haraam with Ka'aba. Pl see translation again.

          So, let me help you out, you're trying to refute what I wrote by implying "akif" in 2125 refers to resident in al masjid al haram, when this is not what The Quran says.

          This perception is because of the fact that you do not take care to see the prepositions surrounding the word you are trying to interpret just by seeing a similar looking word somewhere else and you think these should be equated and juxtaposed upon each other. Logic helps and works only when elementaries are understood.

          Please first determine about each word and phrase individually and later determine relationship of each with other and role being played by each which may enable you to understand what actually Qur'aan is saying. Please let me have your analysis.

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