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  4. I now submit myself to the Sunnah and the authority of hadith

I now submit myself to the Sunnah and the authority of hadith

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  • F Offline
    F Offline
    Faithful-Jinn
    wrote on last edited by
    #30

    You do not sound Muslim.

    Says you.... I was using that point as an analogy. You can't ask me to prove something that can't truly be proven or be disproved.

    At least it seems you are on the cultural bandwagon. That is besides the point. You are saying and attempting to justify that Islam is lacking something with just the Qur'an.

    Cultural bandwagon? I don't even know what that means. I never said Islam was lacking something with just the Qur'an but I will concede it is implied in the idea of Sunni Islam.

    You cannot prove anything but the point here is you have no point. You were being purified in the dream? How are we purified according to what you CLAIM to believe? Is the Qur'an not enough to purify us?

    Yes I have no point. I was simply sharing an experience I had and my own thoughts. When did I ever bring up ANYTHING about purification?

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    • M Offline
      M Offline
      MesMorial
      wrote on last edited by
      #31

      I'll admit I have definitely been premature in my willingness to adhere to the Sunnah. I really am not going through all these posts and answer every single little question I would have to sit down for an hour to answer all the individual posts where people challenged my belief in this thread so many people wrote a damn essay about the fallacies of hadith.

      After just taking a look through the punishment about Islamic punishment I have already found 2 or 3 so-called "authentic" or "sahih" hadith that directly contradict the Qur'an. Doesn't really get any clearer than that...

      My fear about rejecting hadith is what if some of them are true? But I don't think God will want me to adhere to any rules that are among false sayings. If God wanted me to know something wouldn't it be in the Qur'an?

      I don't even know any more I'm going to just do my own thinking for a while I'm not sure what to take from that dream anymore I swear it was Muhammad(pbuh) in the dream you guys don't understand because you didn't experience what I did. I'll get back to you guys.

      Here are some other ahadith to peruse

      http//mesmorial.blogspot.com/

      You can of course do what you wish, but I think you are still a "Qur'an-alone" Muslim who is looking for a solid base in Islam. The ahadith are history but until/if someone can prove that they have authority then none are obligatory. The 5 pillars of Islam are established using the Qur'an alone, as well as the prayer and the times. The Qur'an is clear on these points and ahadith confirm this TO A POINT. If one has faith in the Qur'an than this will be no issue.

      All in all I think that you should not have said you "submitted" to anything that was not mandated by Allah (SWT) and His Qur'an.

      Allah Hafiz

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      • H Offline
        H Offline
        Helel
        wrote on last edited by
        #32

        I would like to add that Abraham received a dream he believed to be from God commanding him to murder his son. Praise be to God, the dream was of satanic origin, and constituted a test for Abraham.

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        • F Offline
          F Offline
          Faithful-Jinn
          wrote on last edited by
          #33

          Here are some other ahadith to peruse

          All in all I think that you should not have said you "submitted" to anything that was not mandated by Allah (SWT) and His Qur'an.

          Great point my friend. I didn't even think of it like that. The thing is though the reasoning for following the Sunnah is that the Qur'an was given to us through Muhammad from God. The hadith are also supposedly given to us through Muhammad from God.

          The Qur'an however is free from corruption and doubt and has divine protection. The hadith have none of these qualities.

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            MesMorial
            wrote on last edited by
            #34

            Says you.... I was using that point as an analogy. You can't ask me to prove something that can't truly be proven or be disproved.

            We are to believe in the unseen, but you were using the concept of faith as an excuse to believe whatever we wish. That is fine, but it was in argument form as if we should evaluate the Qur?an again. We are doing this, and if you can support your arguments based on the Qur?an when in fact there are some relevant ayat are before you, then you need to imply that we cannot prove that the Qur?an is saying what it is saying (the only way for it NOT to be saying this is for what it is saying to be false ? or a mistranslation ? which is irrelevant to the case I think. As you said "Says me".).

            Cultural bandwagon? I don't even know what that means. I never said Islam was lacking something with just the Qur'an but I will concede it is implied in the idea of Sunni Islam.

            You submitted to something besides the Qur?an. You also said

            ?I think a lot of you Qur'an aloners have the wrong idea with hadith?

            ?No I believe my reward will be greater for my striving.?

            So you are saying that to be the best Muslim we need something more than the best hadith.

            Yes I have no point. I was simply sharing an experience I had and my own thoughts. When did I ever bring up ANYTHING about purification?

            You said

            ?Anyway as I'm walking these little rats kept eating their ways from inside my own body to come out of my body.?

            How do you interpret this? If you cannot interpret it, then can you interpret the dream itself? You said

            "The rats coming outside of my body represent that I was ruining myself from the inside."

            Were you ruining yourself by losing the rats, or were you ruining yourself by keeping the rats inside?

            Peace.

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            • S Offline
              S Offline
              sonnie
              wrote on last edited by
              #35

              Good for you FJ Its always good to evolve in belief. Although, I can't say I subscribe to any organized hadith books (or any hadith at all actually), please do share any hadith you find useful.

              Salaam

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              • F Offline
                F Offline
                Faithful-Jinn
                wrote on last edited by
                #36

                We are to believe in the unseen, but you were using the concept of faith as an excuse to believe whatever we wish. That is fine, but it was in argument form as if we should evaluate the Qur?an again. We are doing this, and if you can support your arguments based on the Qur?an when in fact there are some relevant ayat are before you, then you need to imply that we cannot prove that the Qur?an is saying what it is saying (the only way for it NOT to be saying this is for what it is saying to be false ? or a mistranslation ? which is irrelevant to the case I think. As you said "Says me".).

                You submitted to something besides the Qur?an. You also said

                ?I think a lot of you Qur'an aloners have the wrong idea with hadith?

                ?No I believe my reward will be greater for my striving.?

                So you are saying that to be the best Muslim we need something more than the best hadith.

                You said

                ?Anyway as I'm walking these little rats kept eating their ways from inside my own body to come out of my body.?

                How do you interpret this? If you cannot interpret it, then can you interpret the dream itself? You said

                "The rats coming outside of my body represent that I was ruining myself from the inside."

                Were you ruining yourself by losing the rats, or were you ruining yourself by keeping the rats inside?

                Peace.

                Uhhh my statement had nothing to do with interpretation of verses. My statement was how can you ever prove or disprove that the Qur'an is from God? You can't. Rationally and logically you cannot prove to a disbeliever or atheist person that this book comes from God. If there was earthly evidence for that then everyone would be a Muslim.

                The same same goes for the hadith no one has been able to definitively and truly disprove the amount of truth in hadith or no one would be a Sunni.

                And again I never once said anything about purification you guys are the one who pulled that from my dream not me. I don't need to answer every single of the numerous statements in this topic because I'm not out to prove or disprove anything.

                And just because something isn't the Qur'an doesn't mean it can't have wisdom. Divine wisdom isn't the only wisdom and I can learn from my parents, my siblings, the crazy drunk bum down the street, or even a movie may show me something true about life I'd never considered before.

                Which is what I mean when I say Qur'an aloners have the wrong idea about hadith. Someone who adheres to a certain hadith may just like what it says and/or believe it exemplifies Islamic values, it certainly doesn't mean something ridiculous and untrue like they worship Muhammad(pbuh).

                Whether or not these hadiths came from the mouth of the Prophet or not, whether or not they hold any religious authority, if it allows someone to connect or feel closer to God I see no problem in people following hadith if they aren't harmful or detrimental to other people.

                Nor do I have the audacity and gall to say they aren't Muslims.

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                • O Offline
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                  Ozi_Kristi-lee
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #37

                  When I was Christian, I used to have heaps of trippy dreams. And if I took them as real...wel I'd stil b a Christian. Lol. N e ways, now u take this dream as authority, as wel as Hadith, good 4 u. Following Quran is more logic though...

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                  • B Offline
                    B Offline
                    BornAgain
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #38

                    Salaam Faithful-Jinn,

                    I just want to share my thoughts regarding your circumstances. I just want you to stop for a second, and ponder over the story of Prophet Ibrahim, who dealt with a dream in one stage of his life. Prophet Ibrahim got a vision of his son being sacrificed, and he decided to act upon his dream. He believed that the dream was a sign from God, and when he tried to execute his dream, God stopped him. Of course, you can argue that this story can be interpreted in several ways. One interpretation is that Prophet Ibrahim was being tested by God, to see if he was obedient to God. Another can argue that what Prophet Ibrahim saw was merely a dream and God stopped him before he committed a grave mistake. I personally believe in the latter because God will test his servants through following His commandments, and not breaking them. In this case, it is illogical that God would ask Prophet Ibrahim to slaughter an innocent person. Anyway, what I am trying to convey by using the story of Prophet Ibrahim, is that our dream is not necessarily the truth, nor that is a sign from God. Prophet Ibrahim?s dream and the end result, were different. Prophet Ibrahim believed that his dream meant that God commanded him to sacrifice his son, but in the end, it did not turn out like that. God stopped him. The dream was not a sign (in my opinion anyway).

                    Also, the story of Prophet Yusuf came to my mind. He is portrayed to be able to interpret dreams. What you may want to consider is that Prophet Yusuf did not interpret his dreams too literally. He perceived the pressing of wine of one prisoner to mean that this prisoner would be freed and raised in rank where he would have the opportunity to pour drinks to the kind. For another prisoner?s dream of carrying on his head bread which birds would be eating, Prophet Yusuf interpreted that to mean he would be executed and became birds? food (for lack of a better word). Additionally, the king dreamed of seven lean cows eating seven fat ones, and seven green corn ears and seven other ones. We observe that Prophet Yusuf?s interpretation was not literal at all. Instead of saying that in the future seven lean cows would be eating seven fat ones etc, he expounded that there would be seven years of normal harvest, in which the crop should be stored to accommodate the seven hard years that would follow. As I see it, dreams do not necessarily have literal meanings, as illustrated by Prophet Yusuf?s tale. They can have different meanings.

                    In your case, if the person in your dream is REALLY Prophet Muhammad, it does not necessarily mean you have to believe the compiled sayings of Prophet Muhammad, and his life accounts. Because really, they were compiled a few hundred years after his death. Dreams may lie, and be misleading. Prophet Ibrahim carried out his dream with conviction, and he was stopped by God. Anyway, I personally believe that the Qur?an commands us to reflect upon His clear signs, by witnessing the wonder of His creations. The key here is to be conscious while bring ourselves closer to Him.

                    That being said, as you have clearly made up your mind, there is not much I can say to convince you otherwise. As Brother Pel has said, no compulsion in religion. However, if I can give you a word or two; when you practice the Sunnah, make sure that you make God your sole focus, and not set out partner besides him. There are some good aspects of Sunnism that are just traditions and not necessarily transgress Qur?anic boundaries if you devote it to God alone, without the slightest intention to please Prophet Muhammad. Be sure that you strive to exercise God?s laws, by doing righteous deeds to better develop yourself and the environment around you, and not by becoming a mere physical imitation of Prophet Muhammad as perceived by the traditionalists. I hope in whatever you do, you find peace and spread peace to the people around you (and not fall to sectarianism). If by chance you feel drawn back here, we will always welcome you.

                    Salaam.

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                    • F Offline
                      F Offline
                      Faithful-Jinn
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #39

                      Salaam Faithful-Jinn,

                      I just want to share my thoughts regarding your circumstances. I just want you to stop for a second, and ponder over the story of Prophet Ibrahim, who dealt with a dream in one stage of his life. Prophet Ibrahim got a vision of his son being sacrificed, and he decided to act upon his dream. He believed that the dream was a sign from God, and when he tried to execute his dream, God stopped him. Of course, you can argue that this story can be interpreted in several ways. One interpretation is that Prophet Ibrahim was being tested by God, to see if he was obedient to God. Another can argue that what Prophet Ibrahim saw was merely a dream and God stopped him before he committed a grave mistake. I personally believe in the latter because God will test his servants through following His commandments, and not breaking them. In this case, it is illogical that God would ask Prophet Ibrahim to slaughter an innocent person. Anyway, what I am trying to convey by using the story of Prophet Ibrahim, is that our dream is not necessarily the truth, nor that is a sign from God. Prophet Ibrahim?s dream and the end result, were different. Prophet Ibrahim believed that his dream meant that God commanded him to sacrifice his son, but in the end, it did not turn out like that. God stopped him. The dream was not a sign (in my opinion anyway).

                      Also, the story of Prophet Yusuf came to my mind. He is portrayed to be able to interpret dreams. What you may want to consider is that Prophet Yusuf did not interpret his dreams too literally. He perceived the pressing of wine of one prisoner to mean that this prisoner would be freed and raised in rank where he would have the opportunity to pour drinks to the kind. For another prisoner?s dream of carrying on his head bread which birds would be eating, Prophet Yusuf interpreted that to mean he would be executed and became birds? food (for lack of a better word). Additionally, the king dreamed of seven lean cows eating seven fat ones, and seven green corn ears and seven other ones. We observe that Prophet Yusuf?s interpretation was not literal at all. Instead of saying that in the future seven lean cows would be eating seven fat ones etc, he expounded that there would be seven years of normal harvest, in which the crop should be stored to accommodate the seven hard years that would follow. As I see it, dreams do not necessarily have literal meanings, as illustrated by Prophet Yusuf?s tale. They can have different meanings.

                      In your case, if the person in your dream is REALLY Prophet Muhammad, it does not necessarily mean you have to believe the compiled sayings of Prophet Muhammad, and his life accounts. Because really, they were compiled a few hundred years after his death. Dreams may lie, and be misleading. Prophet Ibrahim carried out his dream with conviction, and he was stopped by God. Anyway, I personally believe that the Qur?an commands us to reflect upon His clear signs, by witnessing the wonder of His creations. The key here is to be conscious while bring ourselves closer to Him.

                      That being said, as you have clearly made up your mind, there is not much I can say to convince you otherwise. As Brother Pel has said, no compulsion in religion. However, if I can give you a word or two; when you practice the Sunnah, make sure that you make God your sole focus, and not set out partner besides him. There are some good aspects of Sunnism that are just traditions and not necessarily transgress Qur?anic boundaries if you devote it to God alone, without the slightest intention to please Prophet Muhammad. Be sure that you strive to exercise God?s laws, by doing righteous deeds to better develop yourself and the environment around you, and not by becoming a mere physical imitation of Prophet Muhammad as perceived by the traditionalists. I hope in whatever you do, you find peace and spread peace to the people around you (and not fall to sectarianism). If by chance you feel drawn back here, we will always welcome you.

                      Salaam.

                      Well like I said in my previous post I've decided not to jump into Sunnism after further reflection. That would be far too haphazard a reaction to this dream but the power of this dream was very thought provoking I'm still not sure what to make of it.

                      I originally thought I had the dream because I was supposed to follow the Sunnah. Maybe that was the purpose but I should follow the Sunnah using the Qur'an. The thing that immediately shook me up after the dream is I thought of the hadith I quoted earlier and I figured if I dreamt about the Prophet(pbuh) then the hadith must be true. Not sure what to make of all this anymore.

                      All I know is I prayed for a dream from God and I received a dream where the Prophet appeared to me. So now I'm like now what lol.

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        mmkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #40

                        Salaam Jinn,

                        Well like I said in my previous post I've decided not to jump into Sunnism after further reflection. That would be far too haphazard a reaction to this dream but the power of this dream was very thought provoking I'm still not sure what to make of it.

                        I originally thought I had the dream because I was supposed to follow the Sunnah. Maybe that was the purpose but I should follow the Sunnah using the Qur'an. The thing that immediately shook me up after the dream is I thought of the hadith I quoted earlier and I figured if I dreamt about the Prophet(pbuh) then the hadith must be true. Not sure what to make of all this anymore.

                        All I know is I prayed for a dream from God and I received a dream where the Prophet appeared to me. So now I'm like now what lol.

                        First of all, dream is just a dream, it could be anything.

                        And your dream does not tally with any of the dreams in AlQuraan .

                        Secondly, Allah did not said in AlQuraan that if you saw Prophet Mohammed (AS) in your dream, you have seen him in real. nope

                        So, how can you suddenly jump to that believe.

                        Thirdly, you could not able to interpret your dream properly.

                        You were a submitter to Allah strongly, so you were a lion in your dream. And since 6-8 months you were thinking of whether to follow hadith or not, those are the rats in your body who were cutting you from inside. And finally a rat came out of your body from the back that was a hadith saying that if you see Prophet in your dream that means you have seen him in real.

                        I did not understand why you asked Allah to show you a DREAM, instead you could ask to show the CORRECT PATH . Allah would have guided you towards it.

                        Look at the examples of all the Prophets mentioned in AlQuraan / AlKitaab whether any of them asked their people to follow their sunna after them? Everyone of them just asked "Ati Allaha wa Ati-oon" that means "Obey Allah and Obey Me" it is only possible until they were alive.

                        If their Sunnas have to be stored then what is the use to sending other messengers/prophets to the same people?

                        Brother, look carefully about the interpretation I made of your dream, inshaAllah, you will understand.

                        And ask Allah for the TRUE GUIDANCE, He is the all Listener and all Knower. Hold Him tight, inshaAllah you will not get astray.

                        May Allah guide us all towards Him pr
                        Mohammed M. Khan

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          MesMorial
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #41

                          And just because something isn't the Qur'an doesn't mean it can't have wisdom. Divine wisdom isn't the only wisdom and I can learn from my parents, my siblings, the crazy drunk bum down the street, or even a movie may show me something true about life I'd never considered before.

                          As I said "Qur'an alone" Muslims can recognise that but then they could also see wisdom in Buddhism and rationality (which is what I mentioned). They don't make laws out of it because it suits them. In the end you will find that you can accept no hadith as obligatory (defeating their purpose for you).

                          Peace.

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                          • F Offline
                            F Offline
                            Faithful-Jinn
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #42

                            Salaam Jinn,

                            First of all, dream is just a dream, it could be anything.

                            And your dream does not tally with any of the dreams in AlQuraan .

                            Secondly, Allah did not said in AlQuraan that if you saw Prophet Mohammed (AS) in your dream, you have seen him in real. nope

                            So, how can you suddenly jump to that believe.

                            Thirdly, you could not able to interpret your dream properly.

                            You were a submitter to Allah strongly, so you were a lion in your dream. And since 6-8 months you were thinking of whether to follow hadith or not, those are the rats in your body who were cutting you from inside. And finally a rat came out of your body from the back that was a hadith saying that if you see Prophet in your dream that means you have seen him in real.

                            I did not understand why you asked Allah to show you a DREAM, instead you could ask to show the CORRECT PATH . Allah would have guided you towards it.

                            Look at the examples of all the Prophets mentioned in AlQuraan / AlKitaab whether any of them asked their people to follow their sunna after them? Everyone of them just asked "Ati Allaha wa Ati-oon" that means "Obey Allah and Obey Me" it is only possible until they were alive.

                            If their Sunnas have to be stored then what is the use to sending other messengers/prophets to the same people?

                            Brother, look carefully about the interpretation I made of your dream, inshaAllah, you will understand.

                            And ask Allah for the TRUE GUIDANCE, He is the all Listener and all Knower. Hold Him tight, inshaAllah you will not get astray.

                            May Allah guide us all towards Him pr
                            Mohammed M. Khan

                            Well I've also been praying for guidance to the correct path I didn't JUST ask for a dream lol. I specifically made that prayer when I came across that specific hadith. I pray everyday that I'm following the correct path so having that dream was pretty significant for me. I don't want to ignore God and turn back from the truth no matter WHAT the truth is. I just assumed since I saw Muhammad(pbuh) in the dream that the hadith must be true because my mind instantly went to the hadith about the Prophet appearing in dreams. But yeah you make a good point that I can't really interpret my own dream there could be a thousand interpretations for my dream maybe I need to ask for a dream where Prophet Yusuf explains my dream hahah jk.

                            Something about your interpretation did hit home for me though about the rats in my body actually representing the hadith since it has been causing me some distress about whether or not to recognize hadith or authoritative and my apprehension about not being accepted by the larger Muslim community if I don't adhere to the Sunnah. But hey that dream could mean a number of things.

                            On a lot of further thought I believe I will remain Qur'an alone because it doesn't make sense for the hadith to have any divine authority on ANY level be it equal, greater(God forbid), or even lesser than the Qur'an.

                            There are simply too many inconsistencies in the hadith literature for me to trust it. I believe I'll stick to the Qur'an

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                            • U Offline
                              U Offline
                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #43

                              Beautiful story. Focus on the message of the dream. Focus very closely. Find its true meaning within yourself.

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                              • A Offline
                                A Offline
                                abdalquran
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #44

                                Now suddenly as I'm walking these hell-hounds suddenly turn on me and begin attacking me and killing me. As I'm laying on the ground panicking from fear and dying, a figure of a man appears in the shroud of this intense blazing light and my mind yelled out "Ahmad!" (and in my head it clicked or I decided this was Muhammad) and he came to me and resurrected me by touching me with his light and when I got up he was gone. I'm sure that this was the Prophet the wave of peace that washed over me was so real and palpable when he appeared and the blazing and glorious light he was surrounded by was awe inspiring I might as well have seen him while I was awake

                                FJ, do you realise how shirk this is? In your moment of trouble you yelled out 'Ahmad' instead of 'Allah? Come on, I agree with you about not being a quranist fundamentalist (like calling sunnis kafirs) but surely the above experience isnt a sign to embrace Sunnah. Muhammad is dead and gone. He cant help no one.

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                                • J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  justamuslim
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #45

                                  Hadiths are what others supposedly heard prophet Muhammad say or do. Some things attributed to prophet Muhammad cannot be true. And some things probably are true.

                                  There's nothing wrong in incorporating some hadiths that help you be a better person and getting closer to God. Just as there's nothing wrong in reading self-help books written by people in improving your life and there are lots of them.

                                  But the question is do you believe that the Koran is clear, complete or you also need the hadith? Do you believe that you need hadith to explain and understand the Koran? Do you believe that without the hadiths, you cannot be guided? What is it that you believe?

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                                  • L Offline
                                    L Offline
                                    loxbox13
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #46

                                    Hadiths are what others supposedly heard prophet Muhammad say or do. Some things attributed to prophet Muhammad cannot be true. And some things probably are true.

                                    There's nothing wrong in incorporating some hadiths that help you be a better person and getting closer to God. Just as there's nothing wrong in reading self-help books written by people in improving your life and there are lots of them.

                                    But the question is do you believe that the Koran is clear, complete or you also need the hadith? Do you believe that you need hadith to explain and understand the Koran? Do you believe that without the hadiths, you cannot be guided? What is it that you believe?

                                    U can't say u use hadith to explain the quran, because in this case, the hadith become the master book, a book of authority over the quran, it sould be otherwise, it's the quran that explains things, including hadiths if u want to study hadith or any other book, it's the quran that tells what's right and what's wrong with other books, nt other books telll us what's right and what's wrong in the quran

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                                    • F Offline
                                      F Offline
                                      Faithful-Jinn
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #47

                                      FJ, do you realise how shirk this is? In your moment of trouble you yelled out 'Ahmad' instead of 'Allah? Come on, I agree with you about not being a quranist fundamentalist (like calling sunnis kafirs) but surely the above experience isnt a sign to embrace Sunnah. Muhammad is dead and gone. He cant help no one.

                                      LOL well when I see Muhammad(pbuh) I'm not going to yell out Allah! I think that would be the shirk. I saw the figure before I yelled out his name... not like that even matters. Why I'm even arguing this insignificant point I don't even know. Man you guys like to nitpick some ridiculous things, accusing me of shirk... Puh-lease

                                      And no I don't think I need hadith to be guided I didn't even really know what hadith were until midway through last year I wasn't raised Muslim so when I converted I began studying the Qur'an and never had any exposure to hadith until I was told my tattoos were haram and someone pointed me toward the hadith. At this point I had been praying and reading the Qur'an for about 8 months and didn't understand why I had to listen to more rules LOL it was hard enough for me to quit drinking and smoking but recently I wasn't sure if I was on the right path since the majority of Muslims are Sunni.

                                      That's what really made me think twice a week ago I was talking to someone about why I reject hadith and he said "So do you think you're right or the majority of Muslims who have been practicing Islam for the past 1400 years?". Kind of set me on my heels with that statement I began to wonder and question if I was really submitting or if I was rebelling.

                                      Need to learn to become comfortanble and firm in my convictions as originally I always thought the Qur'an was enough and that nothing else was directly divine as the Qur'an. Which is my main issue with hadith. Whether or not there is some truth in some hadith, they have no divine authority and therefore I have no religious obligation in adhering to them. Now that that's off my chest...

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                                      • LaythL Offline
                                        LaythL Offline
                                        Layth
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #48

                                        Salam,

                                        That's what really made me think twice a week ago I was talking to someone about why I reject hadith and he said "So do you think you're right or the majority of Muslims who have been practicing Islam for the past 1400 years?". Kind of set me on my heels with that statement I began to wonder and question if I was really submitting or if I was rebelling.

                                        The answer is "absolutely". Majority has no bearing on the truth. Truth stands on its own.

                                        Also, when u get this common question (u think your right and for 1400 years people are wrong), simply flip it around and ask the Sunni/Shite "is Jesus the son of God". The immediate answer is "of course not". So, u ask "how could they all be wrong for 2,000 years!". Time and numbers are not a factor to truth.

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                                          Jafar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #49

                                          As for everyone who laughed and poked fun you remind me exactly of the atheists I would argue with who would refuse to understand what it means to have faith and ask me to "prove" God or tell me my belief in God is irrational. I can't prove God is real nor can I prove that it was truly Muhammad(pbuh) that I saw in my dream. I can't be made to rationalize every aspect of my beliefs nor do I need to.

                                          What's wrong with the 'atheist'?
                                          The so-called 'atheist' are not faithless at all, I know some of them and infact they do share a lot of principles with me.
                                          For instance; they do believes that
                                          "There should be no compulsory in belief, and everyone are free to believe whatever they wanted, as truth actually stands out clear from error"
                                          Those principle are infact laid out in the Quran..

                                          Many of the so-called 'atheist' are actually those who have been exposed to erroneous and bizarre concept of a deity which actually doesn't exist.
                                          In many aspect or perspectives I AM an Atheist..
                                          IF God/Theos = a deity in heaven who came down in human beings and died for our sins
                                          IF God/Theos = a deity with presence in a cubicle structure which we need to pay homage there.
                                          IF God/Theos = a deity who demanded a human sacrifice
                                          THEN I AM an A-THEIST of such Theoses / Gods.

                                          Can any one of you "prove" that the Qur'an is from God no you really can't because if you could without a doubt prove it then almost everyone would be Muslim.

                                          We cannot and it doesn't matter!
                                          As TRUTH are TRUTH and FALSEHOOD are FALSEHOOD no matter where they came from..

                                          If you truly understand what does 'muslim' means..
                                          Everyone at one point in time could and could not be a MUSLIM person.
                                          Just like everyone at one point in time could and could not be an HONEST person.
                                          Minds you that Jesus, Abraham and others never read the Quran yet in the Quran they're being referenced as muslim..

                                          As for which hadith to follow I'd have to do further research but yeah having a dream and seeing the Prophet(pbuh) really makes me question if all the hadith are false in light of the hadith about dreams but I will remain vigilant in my lifelong search for truth and obviously will be doing more research into the Qur'an and hadith that will hopefully either refute or verify my suspicions.

                                          Research other topics as well.. read out the Sunni's Hadith, Shiites Hadiths, Torah, Gospel, Talmud, Pesshita, Veda, Tao Te Ching, Arab Pagan beliefs, Celtic pagan beliefs and others..
                                          Maintain a 'critical thinking' attitude, widen your horizon, see things from many angles.. and learn to differentiate truth from falsehood yourself.. by exposing yourself to both of them..
                                          And by God's will, you shall become wiser..

                                          At the end of the day, make sure that you APPLY those things which you belief as GOOD in your everyday life.
                                          That's what really matter the most..

                                          Thank you everyone who responded to my experience, whether you agreed or disagreed, with a modicum of respect.

                                          You're welcome..

                                          Salam / Peace

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