I now submit myself to the Sunnah and the authority of hadith
-
When I was Christian, I used to have heaps of trippy dreams. And if I took them as real...wel I'd stil b a Christian. Lol. N e ways, now u take this dream as authority, as wel as Hadith, good 4 u. Following Quran is more logic though...
-
Salaam Faithful-Jinn,
I just want to share my thoughts regarding your circumstances. I just want you to stop for a second, and ponder over the story of Prophet Ibrahim, who dealt with a dream in one stage of his life. Prophet Ibrahim got a vision of his son being sacrificed, and he decided to act upon his dream. He believed that the dream was a sign from God, and when he tried to execute his dream, God stopped him. Of course, you can argue that this story can be interpreted in several ways. One interpretation is that Prophet Ibrahim was being tested by God, to see if he was obedient to God. Another can argue that what Prophet Ibrahim saw was merely a dream and God stopped him before he committed a grave mistake. I personally believe in the latter because God will test his servants through following His commandments, and not breaking them. In this case, it is illogical that God would ask Prophet Ibrahim to slaughter an innocent person. Anyway, what I am trying to convey by using the story of Prophet Ibrahim, is that our dream is not necessarily the truth, nor that is a sign from God. Prophet Ibrahim?s dream and the end result, were different. Prophet Ibrahim believed that his dream meant that God commanded him to sacrifice his son, but in the end, it did not turn out like that. God stopped him. The dream was not a sign (in my opinion anyway).
Also, the story of Prophet Yusuf came to my mind. He is portrayed to be able to interpret dreams. What you may want to consider is that Prophet Yusuf did not interpret his dreams too literally. He perceived the pressing of wine of one prisoner to mean that this prisoner would be freed and raised in rank where he would have the opportunity to pour drinks to the kind. For another prisoner?s dream of carrying on his head bread which birds would be eating, Prophet Yusuf interpreted that to mean he would be executed and became birds? food (for lack of a better word). Additionally, the king dreamed of seven lean cows eating seven fat ones, and seven green corn ears and seven other ones. We observe that Prophet Yusuf?s interpretation was not literal at all. Instead of saying that in the future seven lean cows would be eating seven fat ones etc, he expounded that there would be seven years of normal harvest, in which the crop should be stored to accommodate the seven hard years that would follow. As I see it, dreams do not necessarily have literal meanings, as illustrated by Prophet Yusuf?s tale. They can have different meanings.
In your case, if the person in your dream is REALLY Prophet Muhammad, it does not necessarily mean you have to believe the compiled sayings of Prophet Muhammad, and his life accounts. Because really, they were compiled a few hundred years after his death. Dreams may lie, and be misleading. Prophet Ibrahim carried out his dream with conviction, and he was stopped by God. Anyway, I personally believe that the Qur?an commands us to reflect upon His clear signs, by witnessing the wonder of His creations. The key here is to be conscious while bring ourselves closer to Him.
That being said, as you have clearly made up your mind, there is not much I can say to convince you otherwise. As Brother Pel has said, no compulsion in religion. However, if I can give you a word or two; when you practice the Sunnah, make sure that you make God your sole focus, and not set out partner besides him. There are some good aspects of Sunnism that are just traditions and not necessarily transgress Qur?anic boundaries if you devote it to God alone, without the slightest intention to please Prophet Muhammad. Be sure that you strive to exercise God?s laws, by doing righteous deeds to better develop yourself and the environment around you, and not by becoming a mere physical imitation of Prophet Muhammad as perceived by the traditionalists. I hope in whatever you do, you find peace and spread peace to the people around you (and not fall to sectarianism). If by chance you feel drawn back here, we will always welcome you.
Salaam.
-
Salaam Faithful-Jinn,
I just want to share my thoughts regarding your circumstances. I just want you to stop for a second, and ponder over the story of Prophet Ibrahim, who dealt with a dream in one stage of his life. Prophet Ibrahim got a vision of his son being sacrificed, and he decided to act upon his dream. He believed that the dream was a sign from God, and when he tried to execute his dream, God stopped him. Of course, you can argue that this story can be interpreted in several ways. One interpretation is that Prophet Ibrahim was being tested by God, to see if he was obedient to God. Another can argue that what Prophet Ibrahim saw was merely a dream and God stopped him before he committed a grave mistake. I personally believe in the latter because God will test his servants through following His commandments, and not breaking them. In this case, it is illogical that God would ask Prophet Ibrahim to slaughter an innocent person. Anyway, what I am trying to convey by using the story of Prophet Ibrahim, is that our dream is not necessarily the truth, nor that is a sign from God. Prophet Ibrahim?s dream and the end result, were different. Prophet Ibrahim believed that his dream meant that God commanded him to sacrifice his son, but in the end, it did not turn out like that. God stopped him. The dream was not a sign (in my opinion anyway).
Also, the story of Prophet Yusuf came to my mind. He is portrayed to be able to interpret dreams. What you may want to consider is that Prophet Yusuf did not interpret his dreams too literally. He perceived the pressing of wine of one prisoner to mean that this prisoner would be freed and raised in rank where he would have the opportunity to pour drinks to the kind. For another prisoner?s dream of carrying on his head bread which birds would be eating, Prophet Yusuf interpreted that to mean he would be executed and became birds? food (for lack of a better word). Additionally, the king dreamed of seven lean cows eating seven fat ones, and seven green corn ears and seven other ones. We observe that Prophet Yusuf?s interpretation was not literal at all. Instead of saying that in the future seven lean cows would be eating seven fat ones etc, he expounded that there would be seven years of normal harvest, in which the crop should be stored to accommodate the seven hard years that would follow. As I see it, dreams do not necessarily have literal meanings, as illustrated by Prophet Yusuf?s tale. They can have different meanings.
In your case, if the person in your dream is REALLY Prophet Muhammad, it does not necessarily mean you have to believe the compiled sayings of Prophet Muhammad, and his life accounts. Because really, they were compiled a few hundred years after his death. Dreams may lie, and be misleading. Prophet Ibrahim carried out his dream with conviction, and he was stopped by God. Anyway, I personally believe that the Qur?an commands us to reflect upon His clear signs, by witnessing the wonder of His creations. The key here is to be conscious while bring ourselves closer to Him.
That being said, as you have clearly made up your mind, there is not much I can say to convince you otherwise. As Brother Pel has said, no compulsion in religion. However, if I can give you a word or two; when you practice the Sunnah, make sure that you make God your sole focus, and not set out partner besides him. There are some good aspects of Sunnism that are just traditions and not necessarily transgress Qur?anic boundaries if you devote it to God alone, without the slightest intention to please Prophet Muhammad. Be sure that you strive to exercise God?s laws, by doing righteous deeds to better develop yourself and the environment around you, and not by becoming a mere physical imitation of Prophet Muhammad as perceived by the traditionalists. I hope in whatever you do, you find peace and spread peace to the people around you (and not fall to sectarianism). If by chance you feel drawn back here, we will always welcome you.
Salaam.
Well like I said in my previous post I've decided not to jump into Sunnism after further reflection. That would be far too haphazard a reaction to this dream but the power of this dream was very thought provoking I'm still not sure what to make of it.
I originally thought I had the dream because I was supposed to follow the Sunnah. Maybe that was the purpose but I should follow the Sunnah using the Qur'an. The thing that immediately shook me up after the dream is I thought of the hadith I quoted earlier and I figured if I dreamt about the Prophet(pbuh) then the hadith must be true. Not sure what to make of all this anymore.
All I know is I prayed for a dream from God and I received a dream where the Prophet appeared to me. So now I'm like now what lol.
-
Salaam Jinn,
Well like I said in my previous post I've decided not to jump into Sunnism after further reflection. That would be far too haphazard a reaction to this dream but the power of this dream was very thought provoking I'm still not sure what to make of it.
I originally thought I had the dream because I was supposed to follow the Sunnah. Maybe that was the purpose but I should follow the Sunnah using the Qur'an. The thing that immediately shook me up after the dream is I thought of the hadith I quoted earlier and I figured if I dreamt about the Prophet(pbuh) then the hadith must be true. Not sure what to make of all this anymore.
All I know is I prayed for a dream from God and I received a dream where the Prophet appeared to me. So now I'm like now what lol.
First of all, dream is just a dream, it could be anything.
And your dream does not tally with any of the dreams in AlQuraan .
Secondly, Allah did not said in AlQuraan that if you saw Prophet Mohammed (AS) in your dream, you have seen him in real. nope
So, how can you suddenly jump to that believe.
Thirdly, you could not able to interpret your dream properly.
You were a submitter to Allah strongly, so you were a lion in your dream. And since 6-8 months you were thinking of whether to follow hadith or not, those are the rats in your body who were cutting you from inside. And finally a rat came out of your body from the back that was a hadith saying that if you see Prophet in your dream that means you have seen him in real.
I did not understand why you asked Allah to show you a DREAM, instead you could ask to show the CORRECT PATH . Allah would have guided you towards it.
Look at the examples of all the Prophets mentioned in AlQuraan / AlKitaab whether any of them asked their people to follow their sunna after them? Everyone of them just asked "Ati Allaha wa Ati-oon" that means "Obey Allah and Obey Me" it is only possible until they were alive.
If their Sunnas have to be stored then what is the use to sending other messengers/prophets to the same people?
Brother, look carefully about the interpretation I made of your dream, inshaAllah, you will understand.
And ask Allah for the TRUE GUIDANCE, He is the all Listener and all Knower. Hold Him tight, inshaAllah you will not get astray.
May Allah guide us all towards Him pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
And just because something isn't the Qur'an doesn't mean it can't have wisdom. Divine wisdom isn't the only wisdom and I can learn from my parents, my siblings, the crazy drunk bum down the street, or even a movie may show me something true about life I'd never considered before.
As I said "Qur'an alone" Muslims can recognise that but then they could also see wisdom in Buddhism and rationality (which is what I mentioned). They don't make laws out of it because it suits them. In the end you will find that you can accept no hadith as obligatory (defeating their purpose for you).
Peace.
-
Salaam Jinn,
First of all, dream is just a dream, it could be anything.
And your dream does not tally with any of the dreams in AlQuraan .
Secondly, Allah did not said in AlQuraan that if you saw Prophet Mohammed (AS) in your dream, you have seen him in real. nope
So, how can you suddenly jump to that believe.
Thirdly, you could not able to interpret your dream properly.
You were a submitter to Allah strongly, so you were a lion in your dream. And since 6-8 months you were thinking of whether to follow hadith or not, those are the rats in your body who were cutting you from inside. And finally a rat came out of your body from the back that was a hadith saying that if you see Prophet in your dream that means you have seen him in real.
I did not understand why you asked Allah to show you a DREAM, instead you could ask to show the CORRECT PATH . Allah would have guided you towards it.
Look at the examples of all the Prophets mentioned in AlQuraan / AlKitaab whether any of them asked their people to follow their sunna after them? Everyone of them just asked "Ati Allaha wa Ati-oon" that means "Obey Allah and Obey Me" it is only possible until they were alive.
If their Sunnas have to be stored then what is the use to sending other messengers/prophets to the same people?
Brother, look carefully about the interpretation I made of your dream, inshaAllah, you will understand.
And ask Allah for the TRUE GUIDANCE, He is the all Listener and all Knower. Hold Him tight, inshaAllah you will not get astray.
May Allah guide us all towards Him pr
Mohammed M. KhanWell I've also been praying for guidance to the correct path I didn't JUST ask for a dream lol. I specifically made that prayer when I came across that specific hadith. I pray everyday that I'm following the correct path so having that dream was pretty significant for me. I don't want to ignore God and turn back from the truth no matter WHAT the truth is. I just assumed since I saw Muhammad(pbuh) in the dream that the hadith must be true because my mind instantly went to the hadith about the Prophet appearing in dreams. But yeah you make a good point that I can't really interpret my own dream there could be a thousand interpretations for my dream maybe I need to ask for a dream where Prophet Yusuf explains my dream hahah jk.
Something about your interpretation did hit home for me though about the rats in my body actually representing the hadith since it has been causing me some distress about whether or not to recognize hadith or authoritative and my apprehension about not being accepted by the larger Muslim community if I don't adhere to the Sunnah. But hey that dream could mean a number of things.
On a lot of further thought I believe I will remain Qur'an alone because it doesn't make sense for the hadith to have any divine authority on ANY level be it equal, greater(God forbid), or even lesser than the Qur'an.
There are simply too many inconsistencies in the hadith literature for me to trust it. I believe I'll stick to the Qur'an
-
Beautiful story. Focus on the message of the dream. Focus very closely. Find its true meaning within yourself.
-
Now suddenly as I'm walking these hell-hounds suddenly turn on me and begin attacking me and killing me. As I'm laying on the ground panicking from fear and dying, a figure of a man appears in the shroud of this intense blazing light and my mind yelled out "Ahmad!" (and in my head it clicked or I decided this was Muhammad) and he came to me and resurrected me by touching me with his light and when I got up he was gone. I'm sure that this was the Prophet the wave of peace that washed over me was so real and palpable when he appeared and the blazing and glorious light he was surrounded by was awe inspiring I might as well have seen him while I was awake
FJ, do you realise how shirk this is? In your moment of trouble you yelled out 'Ahmad' instead of 'Allah? Come on, I agree with you about not being a quranist fundamentalist (like calling sunnis kafirs) but surely the above experience isnt a sign to embrace Sunnah. Muhammad is dead and gone. He cant help no one.
-
Hadiths are what others supposedly heard prophet Muhammad say or do. Some things attributed to prophet Muhammad cannot be true. And some things probably are true.
There's nothing wrong in incorporating some hadiths that help you be a better person and getting closer to God. Just as there's nothing wrong in reading self-help books written by people in improving your life and there are lots of them.
But the question is do you believe that the Koran is clear, complete or you also need the hadith? Do you believe that you need hadith to explain and understand the Koran? Do you believe that without the hadiths, you cannot be guided? What is it that you believe?
-
Hadiths are what others supposedly heard prophet Muhammad say or do. Some things attributed to prophet Muhammad cannot be true. And some things probably are true.
There's nothing wrong in incorporating some hadiths that help you be a better person and getting closer to God. Just as there's nothing wrong in reading self-help books written by people in improving your life and there are lots of them.
But the question is do you believe that the Koran is clear, complete or you also need the hadith? Do you believe that you need hadith to explain and understand the Koran? Do you believe that without the hadiths, you cannot be guided? What is it that you believe?
U can't say u use hadith to explain the quran, because in this case, the hadith become the master book, a book of authority over the quran, it sould be otherwise, it's the quran that explains things, including hadiths if u want to study hadith or any other book, it's the quran that tells what's right and what's wrong with other books, nt other books telll us what's right and what's wrong in the quran
-
FJ, do you realise how shirk this is? In your moment of trouble you yelled out 'Ahmad' instead of 'Allah? Come on, I agree with you about not being a quranist fundamentalist (like calling sunnis kafirs) but surely the above experience isnt a sign to embrace Sunnah. Muhammad is dead and gone. He cant help no one.
LOL well when I see Muhammad(pbuh) I'm not going to yell out Allah! I think that would be the shirk. I saw the figure before I yelled out his name... not like that even matters. Why I'm even arguing this insignificant point I don't even know. Man you guys like to nitpick some ridiculous things, accusing me of shirk... Puh-lease
And no I don't think I need hadith to be guided I didn't even really know what hadith were until midway through last year I wasn't raised Muslim so when I converted I began studying the Qur'an and never had any exposure to hadith until I was told my tattoos were haram and someone pointed me toward the hadith. At this point I had been praying and reading the Qur'an for about 8 months and didn't understand why I had to listen to more rules LOL it was hard enough for me to quit drinking and smoking but recently I wasn't sure if I was on the right path since the majority of Muslims are Sunni.
That's what really made me think twice a week ago I was talking to someone about why I reject hadith and he said "So do you think you're right or the majority of Muslims who have been practicing Islam for the past 1400 years?". Kind of set me on my heels with that statement I began to wonder and question if I was really submitting or if I was rebelling.
Need to learn to become comfortanble and firm in my convictions as originally I always thought the Qur'an was enough and that nothing else was directly divine as the Qur'an. Which is my main issue with hadith. Whether or not there is some truth in some hadith, they have no divine authority and therefore I have no religious obligation in adhering to them. Now that that's off my chest...
-
Salam,
That's what really made me think twice a week ago I was talking to someone about why I reject hadith and he said "So do you think you're right or the majority of Muslims who have been practicing Islam for the past 1400 years?". Kind of set me on my heels with that statement I began to wonder and question if I was really submitting or if I was rebelling.
The answer is "absolutely". Majority has no bearing on the truth. Truth stands on its own.
Also, when u get this common question (u think your right and for 1400 years people are wrong), simply flip it around and ask the Sunni/Shite "is Jesus the son of God". The immediate answer is "of course not". So, u ask "how could they all be wrong for 2,000 years!". Time and numbers are not a factor to truth.
-
As for everyone who laughed and poked fun you remind me exactly of the atheists I would argue with who would refuse to understand what it means to have faith and ask me to "prove" God or tell me my belief in God is irrational. I can't prove God is real nor can I prove that it was truly Muhammad(pbuh) that I saw in my dream. I can't be made to rationalize every aspect of my beliefs nor do I need to.
What's wrong with the 'atheist'?
The so-called 'atheist' are not faithless at all, I know some of them and infact they do share a lot of principles with me.
For instance; they do believes that
"There should be no compulsory in belief, and everyone are free to believe whatever they wanted, as truth actually stands out clear from error"
Those principle are infact laid out in the Quran..Many of the so-called 'atheist' are actually those who have been exposed to erroneous and bizarre concept of a deity which actually doesn't exist.
In many aspect or perspectives I AM an Atheist..
IF God/Theos = a deity in heaven who came down in human beings and died for our sins
IF God/Theos = a deity with presence in a cubicle structure which we need to pay homage there.
IF God/Theos = a deity who demanded a human sacrifice
THEN I AM an A-THEIST of such Theoses / Gods.Can any one of you "prove" that the Qur'an is from God no you really can't because if you could without a doubt prove it then almost everyone would be Muslim.
We cannot and it doesn't matter!
As TRUTH are TRUTH and FALSEHOOD are FALSEHOOD no matter where they came from..If you truly understand what does 'muslim' means..
Everyone at one point in time could and could not be a MUSLIM person.
Just like everyone at one point in time could and could not be an HONEST person.
Minds you that Jesus, Abraham and others never read the Quran yet in the Quran they're being referenced as muslim..As for which hadith to follow I'd have to do further research but yeah having a dream and seeing the Prophet(pbuh) really makes me question if all the hadith are false in light of the hadith about dreams but I will remain vigilant in my lifelong search for truth and obviously will be doing more research into the Qur'an and hadith that will hopefully either refute or verify my suspicions.
Research other topics as well.. read out the Sunni's Hadith, Shiites Hadiths, Torah, Gospel, Talmud, Pesshita, Veda, Tao Te Ching, Arab Pagan beliefs, Celtic pagan beliefs and others..
Maintain a 'critical thinking' attitude, widen your horizon, see things from many angles.. and learn to differentiate truth from falsehood yourself.. by exposing yourself to both of them..
And by God's will, you shall become wiser..At the end of the day, make sure that you APPLY those things which you belief as GOOD in your everyday life.
That's what really matter the most..Thank you everyone who responded to my experience, whether you agreed or disagreed, with a modicum of respect.
You're welcome..
Salam / Peace
-
What's wrong with the 'atheist'?
The so-called 'atheist' are not faithless at all, I know some of them and infact they do share a lot of principles with me.
For instance; they do believes that
"There should be no compulsory in belief, and everyone are free to believe whatever they wanted, as truth actually stands out clear from error"
Those principle are infact laid out in the Quran..Many of the so-called 'atheist' are actually those who have been exposed to erroneous and bizarre concept of a deity which actually doesn't exist.
In many aspect or perspectives I AM an Atheist..
IF God/Theos = a deity in heaven who came down in human beings and died for our sins
IF God/Theos = a deity with presence in a cubicle structure which we need to pay homage there.
IF God/Theos = a deity who demanded a human sacrifice
THEN I AM an A-THEIST of such Theoses / Gods.While I agree many atheists are those who have been exposed to erroneous and bizarre concepts of a deity (like Christian trinity) and thus they spurn God, that doesn't mean they have faith because many of them after deciding the Christian God is not true decide that the idea of the Islamic God or ANY KIND of God is equally ridiculous without doing the proper research or being exposed to only public opinion, hearsay, or propaganda.
What's wrong with an atheist is they demand proof for something that cannot be proven using earthly evidence and they are firm in their disbelief. Which is different than an agnostic who acknowledges that God may or may not exist. The way I perceive it, it is not that they don't seek God, but they believe themselves self-sufficient and WON"T seek God. When I have spoken to certain atheists about my personal experiences and how I came to believe in God and subsequently in Islam I have been met with sarcasm and haughty laughs because they are so firm in their disbelief and their arrogance that they could not even open themselves up to entertain the idea of a Supreme God or the idea that any organized religion is true.
I would hardly call that faith.
We cannot and it doesn't matter!
As TRUTH are TRUTH and FALSEHOOD are FALSEHOOD no matter where they came from..If you truly understand what does 'muslim' means..
Everyone at one point in time could and could not be a MUSLIM person.
Just like everyone at one point in time could and could not be an HONEST person.
Minds you that Jesus, Abraham and others never read the Quran yet in the Quran they're being referenced as muslim..My point exactly. It doesn't matter! I wasn't asking for anyone to prove anything I was making a point. My statement was a response to people asking me to prove the hadith come from God or that the hadith have some basis in truth which I thought was a stupid question since none of us were alive in the 7th century can actually prove or disprove that. Which goes back to my shpeel about atheists. They hide behind rationality and logic and are firm in their disbelief because neither I nor anyone else can prove to them that God exists. It says in the Qur'an that had God manifested his miracles before their eyes or sent down angels the disbelievers would still call it a clear enchantment. But like you said that doesn't change the truth. Truth is truth and falsehood is falsehood.
And yes that is an excellent point about Jesus, Abraham etc. that I've always agreed about. Islam began when the human race began. Since Adam was created Islam has also existed. Islam cannot be confined to just one book, or certain sayings, or one group in one region, or one time period.
Islam is the universal religion of man and it is not only that but also a natural law that all living beings and every atom of the universe submit to Allah (one way or another).
Research other topics as well.. read out the Sunni's Hadith, Shiites Hadiths, Torah, Gospel, Talmud, Pesshita, Veda, Tao Te Ching, Arab Pagan beliefs, Celtic pagan beliefs and others..
Maintain a 'critical thinking' attitude, widen your horizon, see things from many angles.. and learn to differentiate truth from falsehood yourself.. by exposing yourself to both of them..
And by God's will, you shall become wiser..At the end of the day, make sure that you APPLY those things which you belief as GOOD in your everyday life.
That's what really matter the most..Agreed. I've always had an interest in mythology and religion no matter where it comes from not just Islam. Probably why I received an A in my History of World Religion class last semester
Salam / Peace
Likewise
-
In your dream, you are calling for what you are sure is Prophet Muhammad but then I don't understand why you would not want to hang on to what Prophet Muhammad left behind for us to follow (the Koran) instead of turning to what Abu huraira, ayesha, and others supposedly said that were supposedly transmitted through people that Bukhari compiled and put together?
Prophet Muhammad was a responsible person and if the Koran was not clear about how to do wudu, salat, or anything else, and as God said we are to follow Prophet Muhammad, don't you think that Prophet Muhammad would have written down in details instructions on every matter for us to 'follow' instead of leaving to others to memorize, write down snippets of what they saw Prophet do or say supposedly and leave it for the 'responsible' Bukhari to use his chain of commands methodology to collect these sayings and doings of the prophet?
God tells us to follow Muhammad, and not what Abu huraira and others saw or said about Muhammad. Your dream is profound but I don't agree or understand your interpretation of it. Hadiths are not the words of Muhammad. They are the words of other people.
-
Forget everything...
Everything clears up!
-
HO...LY...CRAP. Read the 4 pages. Some heat up in this joint! O0
But the points...oh the points...I just love them. To Jafar, same. I am an atheist as well...in...false beliefs, so I quite love it myself when a rabbinical priest (read imam) calls me a kaffir (has not happened...but I would nod at his dumbass) as it could only be a compliment when one tells you that you don't believe that which is man-made, thus sexist, and especially ignorant considering the time in which it was written.
Oh and the bandwagon argument gets me every time. You want to bring majority into this?
There are more "true" (read blind-following, hence false) Christians on Earth then there are muslims. Let's face it. Muslims now are probably more in "number" because they multiply rapidly in third-world countries, while most of these innocent kids end up getting forced into Islam (the females should be pitied the most for obvious reasons). No one gets to choose their beliefs there.
I doubt Christianity is anywhere close to this. For the most part, you have to make a decision to accept God and whatever (believe this is what "baptism" is about) and we all know if anything, Islam is the religion most eager (read arrogant) to come out on top over the other two "monotheistic" religions, and will use one among their infinite retarded fallacies in cases such as which religion has more practicers.
Since now FJ that it seems you don't quite mean what you do in your title, I would think you'd want a moderator to change it to "I think we may learn something from hadith/sunna now", or something. ;D
-
HO...LY...CRAP. Read the 4 pages. Some heat up in this joint! O0
But the points...oh the points...I just love them. To Jafar, same. I am an atheist as well...in...false beliefs, so I quite love it myself when a rabbinical priest (read imam) calls me a kaffir (has not happened...but I would nod at his dumbass) as it could only be a compliment when one tells you that you don't believe that which is man-made, thus sexist, and especially ignorant considering the time in which it was written.
Oh and the bandwagon argument gets me every time. You want to bring majority into this?
There are more "true" (read blind-following, hence false) Christians on Earth then there are muslims. Let's face it. Muslims now are probably more in "number" because they multiply rapidly in third-world countries, while most of these innocent kids end up getting forced into Islam (the females should be pitied the most for obvious reasons). No one gets to choose their beliefs there.
I doubt Christianity is anywhere close to this. For the most part, you have to make a decision to accept God and whatever (believe this is what "baptism" is about) and we all know if anything, Islam is the religion most eager (read arrogant) to come out on top over the other two "monotheistic" religions, and will use one among their infinite retarded fallacies in cases such as which religion has more practicers.
Since now FJ that it seems you don't quite mean what you do in your title, I would think you'd want a moderator to change it to "I think we may learn something from hadith/sunna now", or something. ;D
Yes the title is different to what is written here...vindicating anyone who mocked
Peace.
-
HO...LY...CRAP. Read the 4 pages. Some heat up in this joint! O0
But the points...oh the points...I just love them. To Jafar, same. I am an atheist as well...in...false beliefs, so I quite love it myself when a rabbinical priest (read imam) calls me a kaffir (has not happened...but I would nod at his dumbass) as it could only be a compliment when one tells you that you don't believe that which is man-made, thus sexist, and especially ignorant considering the time in which it was written.
Oh and the bandwagon argument gets me every time. You want to bring majority into this?
There are more "true" (read blind-following, hence false) Christians on Earth then there are muslims. Let's face it. Muslims now are probably more in "number" because they multiply rapidly in third-world countries, while most of these innocent kids end up getting forced into Islam (the females should be pitied the most for obvious reasons). No one gets to choose their beliefs there.
I doubt Christianity is anywhere close to this. For the most part, you have to make a decision to accept God and whatever (believe this is what "baptism" is about) and we all know if anything, Islam is the religion most eager (read arrogant) to come out on top over the other two "monotheistic" religions, and will use one among their infinite retarded fallacies in cases such as which religion has more practicers.
Since now FJ that it seems you don't quite mean what you do in your title, I would think you'd want a moderator to change it to "I think we may learn something from hadith/sunna now", or something. ;D
LOL yes this topic title should change thanks for those arguments to keep me thinking logically. The more I think about it the more I can't imagine how following only the Qur'an can in any way be wrong. To say so is in fact insulting and demeaning the blessings and bounties the Qur'an has.
I'll just have to stand up to the Sunnis who call me a kaffir or look at me as a half-Muslim from now on.
-
about standing up, i tell people who say that I am a kaffir or follower of satan or committing shirk....
I follow what prophet Muhammad said and not what abu huraira, ayesha, etc said. If that makes me a kaffir, then all I have to say is to you your way, to me my way. I don't worship what you worship and you don't worship what I worship.
My worship and my obedience is to God and at the end, I will return to God and have to answer to Him. I believe the Koran is the word of God who has made it clear of punishment for imputing lies about Him. When God says the Koran is complete, His words are sufficient to me.
You know, majority of the 'sunni' just believe without questioning. When I first opened up a book of hadith, I was expecting a book of instructions on how to do wudu, salat and you can imagine my surprise. If you are going to stand up to the sunni, stick with the subject (not jumping all over the place) and have them answer to what they claim. Since the Koran left out details on how to do salat, wudu, etc....ask them for the hadiths that do.
