Esoteric/mystical understanding of The Quran.
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I think what I am doing, is interpreting the Quran, esoterically.
While The Quran, to me, clearly states that God is consciousness, it is still seen as esoteric interpretation by most.
I also view the first life, as the life before gnosis, or what many call egodeath. I view judgement day, as gnosis, and the ressurction, as the life after gnosis.
Heaven and hell, are results of understanding and following correct religion in the time after ressurection.
This ofcourse leaves the question, Then what happens at death?
I do believe the Quran adresses this aswell, with the statement, everything will perish but God. So in the end, what will remain, is a timeless, spaceless eternal paradox.This is also often called mystical interpretation of The Quran.
Anyone who thinks the same way about the Quran as me? Or do you believe this discussion is "illegal"? )
Peace Be With You,
Paradox Uncreated. -
Don't worry about what's illegal to discuss.
But can you elaborate on your post? Specifically, what you mean by
I also view the first life, as the life before gnosis, or what many call egodeath. I view judgement day, as gnosis, and the ressurction, as the life after gnosis.
Heaven and hell, are results of understanding and following correct religion in the time after ressurection.
So in the end, what will remain, is a timeless, spaceless eternal paradox.
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Well traditional literal interpretation, is that one physically dies before judgement day. However, my interpretation is that these are merely poetical likenings, to what is known as gnosis, or what is also commonly called egodeath. This is also an experience of a kind of death, and what comes after, is a kind of rebirth. These expressions are also often used in this context. So what I am saying, is, that judgement day, is something one experiences in ones lifetime. And so it becomes "first life"->"gnosis"->resurrection->secondlife>eternal paradox. However all in one life time. Not really sure if that helped you? Good to see that you are interested in talking about this.
Peace Be With You.
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Always interested, and am familiar with ego-death.
Still would be nice if you could expound more, with some verses since you are speaking of a specific interpretation of the qur'an.
The "eternal paradox" would not be in this one lifetime, right? It would be after all deaths, the grand void? By 'eternal paradox' what do you mean exactly? I'm sure it's a bit of a Zen koan, hard to put into words, but try. Is it pure Being?
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Yes, the grand void. At death, or after all life is done on earth. Ofcourse there is the question of, if I am God, then I am all life. And if one life ends, another goes on. Am I still alive in this other life. Then one would have to wait, for the whole of the universe, to perish, to reach the eternal paradox. In some ways, this could be a way to defend hindu teachings of reincarnation. Do you understand?
Edit Well I understand myself as always this eternal paradox. However it will be the only thing left in the end, after creation perishes.
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Yeah, I understand. What verses inspired you to these interpretations?
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Well, I experienced ego-death/gnosis 10 years back, and interpretation of the Quran, fits perfectly with this event. It's definately a "judgement day" in strenght of experience
Edit Well I can make references to a quranic verse also, that conviced me. In egodeath/gnosis, the universe becomes very visible. A normal man may look at the sky and see stars, but it's veiled to his eyes how infinite it is. On the day of gnosis, this veil is lifted, and one sees the universe as it is. Infinite. And one becomes extremely godconsious. It's a lifechanging experience, aka "jugdment day". And in the Quran, it states, on the day of judgement, the sky will open..
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If you would be willing, I think it'd be a good idea for you to write an article on it. Your thoughts on the basic cosmology/eschatology contained in the qur'an, etc. Just a thought.
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I could try that. And gather my thoughts on it, in an informative article.
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I wrote a short article. If any discussion follows, I can try and rewrite the article, and summarize the points as needed.
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A GNOSTIC ESOTERIC AND MYSTICAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE QURAN.
Is The Quran to be understood literally, or are the many verses poetical likenings to real life phenomena?
It is likely that the Qurans poetical nature, refers to real life phenomea. But what are they? And where does on begin, in trying to explain what the verses are really about?
The gnostic, the seeker of God, experiences God, and has real life experience to talk about. If he were to word himself, with quranical poetic expression, how would it sound?
"Those who follow God, goes to heaven, on judgement day, and those who follow satan goes to hell."
But, what would he put in those expressions?-
What really is, following God?
God is consciousness. This can be seen in the verses about God breathing some of himself, into man and giving him life. The Quran mentions particulary mind. This makes god all life, and this is also something the gnostic gains understanding of, during gnosis.
This makes the mind itself God, and it becomes important to listen to oneself, to follow ones own nature, and to weigh facts, back and forth, to reach the best conclusion. This ultimately, would be to follow God. -
What really is judgement day?
In the Quran, Judgement day is the day when the sky opens. And the gnostic who has experienced gnosis, knows it as the day all the stars become visible, when before their infinity were veiled to him. One becomes extremely godconscious, and reach deep insight into religious thought. This, is the same as egodeath. The Qurans first death therefore is a poetical likening, to gnosis, and egodeath. -
What is resurrection?
Many people talk about experiencing God (gnosis) at different levels. And talk about a rebirth. This is the same as ressurection. -
What is heaven and hell.
Heaven is a state of mind, a good state. The quran describes it as "with rivers flowing underneath", which I interpret to tears of joy.
Hell is a negative state. The quran describes it, as a being delivered by a "beast of the earth", which i interpret as related to animal behaviour.
Heaven comes from correct belief. Hell comes from wrong belief. -
What happens at death then?
The Quran states that everything will perish but God. So ultimately what will happen is that nothing will be left, than gods nature, which is a timeless, spaceless, eternal paradox.
Finally, what is the true meaning of muslim?
I believe the true meaning of muslim, is one who has surrendered/given up his will, to God. This seems like a neccesary stage, to trust ones divine nature.
It has very little to do with religious ritual, including prayers. However if prayer is a part of seeking and learning to trust God, that is a part of ones surrender. This is most likely why it is included in the Quran. -
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I rewrote it a little bit. No discussion followed, so it's up to me it seems ) I'll let it simmer for a few days, and see if it changes, and then you can put it up on the website if you wish.
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A gnostic, esoteric and mystical understanding of the Quran.When studying the Quran, over the course of several years, one seems to arrive at a religion, that is quite different than one would expect. Traditionally, Islam, is a religion of strict religious rituals, while the seeker of truth, finds a religion, that gives the adherent freedom to move as he chooses. This freedom, is taugh as "surrender". The religion revolves around this, and tries to teach the adherent to grow, and finally realize himself, and make him understand that his consciousness is God. That indeed he is God, because of this. And what comes then, is learning to rely on oneself, to listen to oneself, weigh facts back and forth, and reach conclusions, and "surrender" to God, and his own nature. He will go through mystical stages, of giving up his will to God. He will know religious phenomena, and become a knower of God, a gnostic. He will be a believer of solid unchangable nature. And deep insights into religion will come to him.
This understanding is known as a gnostic, esoteric and mystical understanding of the Quran.
This understanding revolves around the fact, that The Quran is poetical, and uses poetical likenings to real-life phenomena, to voice it's message. It's true message, is not in literal interpretation.
The true muslim and student of the Quran, will come to know the following-
What really is, following God?
God is consciousness. This can be seen in the verses about God breathing some of himself, into man and giving him life. The Quran mentions particulary mind. This makes god all life, and this is also something the gnostic gains understanding of, during gnosis.
This makes the mind itself God, and it becomes important to listen to oneself, to follow ones own nature, and to weigh facts, back and forth, to reach the best conclusion. This ultimately, would be to follow God. -
What really is judgement day?
In the Quran, Judgement day is the day when the sky opens. And the gnostic who has experienced gnosis, knows it as the day all the stars become visible, when before their infinity were veiled to him. One becomes extremely godconscious, and reach deep insight into religious thought. This, is the same as egodeath. The Qurans first death therefore is a poetical likening, to gnosis, and egodeath. -
What is resurrection?
Many people talk about experiencing God (gnosis) at different levels. And talk about a rebirth. This is the same as ressurection. -
What is heaven and hell.
Heaven is a state of mind, a good state. The quran describes it as "with rivers flowing underneath", which one interprets to being tears of joy.
Hell is a negative state. The quran describes it, as a being delivered by a "beast of the earth", which i interpret as related to animal behaviour.
Heaven comes from correct belief. Hell comes from wrong belief. -
What happens at death then?
The Quran states that everything will perish but God. So ultimately what will happen is that nothing will be left, than gods nature, which is a timeless, spaceless, eternal paradox,
This is the true Islam.
And the true meaning of muslim, is one who has surrendered/given up his will, to God. This seems like a neccesary stage, to trust ones divine nature.
It has very little to do with religious ritual, including prayers. However if prayer is a part of seeking and learning to trust God, that is a part of ones surrender. This is most likely why it is included in the Quran.To become a muslim, one does only need to follow The Quran. There is no public confession of faith, and God is the only witness needed. In other words, being muslim, is between you, and God.
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I think it would be a much better article --and one that would invite a lot more discussion -- if you actually made an in-depth analysis of the verses, i.e. pasting the verses in the article complete with verse numbers and going through why each verse is better suited for your interpretation vs. some other interpretation, etc.
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Ahh, the verses, do I really have to make the effort? Yes, letsee.. I guess I have become lazy, I've been reading the Quran so much, that I suppose everone knows the verses I am talking about. I can inject some verse numbers into it?
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there u go
A gnostic, esoteric and mystical understanding of the Quran.
When studying the Quran, over the course of several years, one seems to arrive at a religion, that is quite different than one would expect. Traditionally, Islam, is a religion of strict religious rituals, while the seeker of truth, finds a religion, that gives the adherent freedom to move as he chooses. This freedom, is taugh as "surrender". The religion revolves around this, and tries to teach the adherent to grow, and finally realize himself, and make him understand that his consciousness is God. That indeed he is God, because of this. And what comes then, is learning to rely on oneself, to listen to oneself, weigh facts back and forth, and reach conclusions, and "surrender" to God, and his own nature. He will go through mystical stages, of giving up his will to God. He will know religious phenomena, and become a knower of God, a gnostic. He will be a believer of solid unchangable nature. And deep insights into religion will come to him.
This understanding is known as a gnostic, esoteric and mystical understanding of the Quran.
This understanding revolves around the fact, that The Quran is poetical, and uses poetical likenings to real-life phenomena, to voice it's message. It's true message, is not in literal interpretation.
The true muslim and student of the Quran, will come to know the following-
What really is, following God?
God is consciousness. This can be seen in the verses about God breathing some of himself, into man and giving him life. The Quran mentions particulary mind. This makes god all life, and this is also something the gnostic gains understanding of, during gnosis.
This makes the mind itself God, and it becomes important to listen to oneself, to follow ones own nature, and to weigh facts, back and forth, to reach the best conclusion. This ultimately, would be to follow God. -
What really is judgement day?
In the Quran, Judgement day is the day when the sky opens . And the gnostic who has experienced gnosis, knows it as the day all the stars become visible, when before their infinity were veiled to him. One becomes extremely godconscious, and reach deep insight into religious thought. This, is the same as egodeath. The Qurans first death therefore is a poetical likening, to gnosis, and egodeath. -
What is resurrection?
Many people talk about experiencing God (gnosis) at different levels. And talk about a rebirth. This is the same as ressurection. -
What is heaven and hell.
Heaven is a state of mind, a good state. The quran describes it as "with rivers flowing underneath" , which one interprets to being tears of joy.
Hell is a negative state. The quran describes it, as a being delivered by a "beast of the earth" , which i interpret as related to animal behaviour.
Heaven comes from correct belief. Hell comes from wrong belief. -
What happens at death then?
The Quran states that everything will perish but God. So ultimately what will happen is that nothing will be left, than gods nature, which is a timeless, spaceless, eternal paradox,
This is the true Islam.
And the true meaning of muslim, is one who has surrendered/given up his will, to God. This seems like a neccesary stage, to trust ones divine nature.
It has very little to do with religious ritual, including prayers. However if prayer is a part of seeking and learning to trust God, that is a part of ones surrender. This is most likely why it is included in the Quran.To become a muslim, one does only need to follow The Quran. There is no public confession of faith, and God is the only witness needed. In other words, being muslim, is between you, and God.
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I dont really see it neccesary to compare interpretations. To me, being someone who is endowed with knowledge, it is quite clear, that this is how it is.
Edit And the fact that I don't know any other interpretation by now. )
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Interesting topic and discussion but wanted to point a few discrepancies in my opinion.
You talk about hell and it being delivered by the beast of the earth. However the verse in question 2782 doesn't give an indication about hell or the afterlife but talks about the earthly life and a creature made from earthly materials. I believe this to be the computer/internet but just wanted to point out your interpretation.
Also on another note you said nothing will remain except Gods presence as per 2888. This is correct however you overlook the many verses that talk about new universe being created after this one being destroyed and how jannat is an everlasting gift 11108. So we have to be experiencing something as well as those in jahannam so in my opinion not only Gods nature will remain as always but so will the fortunate ones who did good in this life.
Esoteric teachings are interesting and I enjoy reading them, where I think the crux of the discussion is in WHAT IS ALLAH/THE GOD??? Eternal paradox?? ???
PEACE
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Well, what I am trying to tell you here, is the We are all the consciousness God, so that is what Allah is. And certain logics can be used with that. Which basically means that our nature is completely transcendent, therefore a paradox. We are the cause of all matter, therefore the creator of all created things. Creation is not eternal and shall therefore perish. We are eternal, and shall not perish. Our timeless, spaceless trancendent nature, always was, is, and will be. Creation does not move on it's own, so we move all of creation. And so forth.
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Well, what I am trying to tell you here, is the We are all the consciousness God, so that is what Allah is. And certain logics can be used with that. Which basically means that our nature is completely transcendent, therefore a paradox. We are the cause of all matter, therefore the creator of all created things. Creation is not eternal and shall therefore perish. We are eternal, and shall not perish. Our timeless, spaceless trancendent nature, always was, is, and will be. Creation does not move on it's own, so we move all of creation. And so forth.
Yeah, that's a bit too much for me. Good luck being God though!
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I will percieve all consciousness as God. Also yours.
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I will percieve all consciousness as God. Also yours.
NO! Don't you put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby!
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Anyone who thinks the same way about the Quran as me? Or do you believe this discussion is "illegal"? )
Peace Be With You,
Paradox Uncreated.When I first opened the Quran, I had a million bells going off at once and they all said "Tao Te Ching, Tao Te Ching, Tao Te Ching". A learned Qadri shaykh confirmed my perceptions and explained to me that Al Lah is not gendered at all but can be thought of as both mother and father, Ir-Rahman, Ir-Rahim. I later realized that the stories of Jesus came from the gospels that didn't make the official Judeo-Roman Christian canon.
We have a man, peace be upon him, apparently/supposedly descended from an abandoned and banished Egyptian slave woman and her son -- whose culture, historically speaking, is slowly being encroached upon by a foreign element which has ties to this paternal line. But, as in the case of say.... Anglo-Saxon culture in Britain or Aryan culture in India ...it wasn't simply an encroachment or attempt at colonisation, at least not from a street perspective. For the most part, people were just changing .....assimilating to one another.
Now, instead of proposing war against them, he suggests tolerance and coexistence. In other words, compassion. A kind of reformation. He is, essentially, one of the original Christians, living on the fringe of the established church (as were many others more or less unaccounted for during this time frame, and through the reaches of a vast expanse of land and culture whose very language was slowly being eliminated via the encroachment I mentioned).
The Qaba is archaeologically linked to Brahma ....the root aspect of a multi-faceted deity. His counterpart, of course, is Saraswati ....which, in reality, is an ancient river long since dried up.
When you have an idea about something and need to express it, especially one with serious political implications, there is a way to do this without upsetting long-established belief systems and making yourself an enemy of the general population. Again, compassion.
One can say that there is no god but Al Lah and it is the same god as that of the Bible... or one can say there is no god but God. God is one, no matter what you call it. It's the same.
That is what I think of the Quran. And I don't care if it's illegal or not. It's been long enough.
Salaam.