Quran: internal distinguishing mechanisms...
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peace All,
Note AQ = al quran
I was asked to post this topic, as a request from another thread. It was in reference to
Applying logic and bracketing to 2431 can only give a certain set of results. If one's inner compass is in tune with the message, the right interpretation becomes obvious. In part, that is the beauty of AQ, as it contains many internal distinguishing mechanisms. He guides many by it and can lead many astray by it .
AQ states that the inclination of the human being is towards oneness/truth , and that the truth of its message is in ourselves and the world around us, i.e. everywhere . I believe there are many universal values common to all human beings, e.g. positive for honesty, kindness, charitable, the truth, and negative for theft, lies, violence etc. This can be experienced most acutely with young children, who are very pure in thought and treat a person not based on anything other than how they are treated. See also here for an emphasis on using our own reason/logic.
FACT AQ would not ask us to look within and use our God-given heart/mind/reason if there was no truth within.
Thus, if one is pure of thought, sincere, humble, just, righteous, logical etc then the truth will be much more clearer to this person than one who is not. This is very clear from AQ itself
Background
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598855.msg215800#msg215800
http//www.quran434.com/study-method.htmlSo when it comes to a verse or verses in AQ that may have multiple interpretations, the above person will naturally incline to what is most in-tune with the message. Their inner compass is tuned into the frequency AQ is broadcasting, so to speak.
These so-called multiple-meaning verses in AQ can be seen as "internal distinguishing mechanisms", that serve to differentiate those naturally inclined towards righteousness/justice/God-conscious/etc and those who are not.
In my view, not only does AQ say/imply this it also contains many "internal distinguishing mechanisms". I have not studied AQ with specific regard to this aspect, but I have mentioned examples frequently on the forum, examples listed
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10045.msg47636#msg47636
Re compensation of an accidental killing or "blood money"I have not studied the signs, thus I cannot say who makes the decision on how much, but if it is the individual, they could give 50 cents, but like many things 'al quran' allows a degree of flexibility to provide a distinguishing mechanism, one who is naturally/sincerely just will give a just amount, one must have a choice, if there was no choice, then there is no point in the test. No injustice will be done as one cannot escape the scales on The Day.
One should give a just amount, and a just amount would depend on the individual and their dependents or their contribution to causes/betterment etc. To me, this is perfectly reasonable, and perfectly logical.Re 434 and "give the excess"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10365.msg53107#msg53107I said "At the end of the day, even if...", implying as a last resort. I personally dont think 'beat' is logical as I have written, but not everyone will agree with me. This will most likely leave several possible options (unless they think it can only mean 'beat'*.
Given these options, who has most to lose if they make the unjust decision? The husband or the wife?
*DRB is the most multiple-meaning root I have come across in reviewing 400+ roots, so for someone to say with certainty it can only mean 'beat' is unlikely.If 'al quran' says "give the excess" , well this is another in-built distinguishing mechanism. One might think 1% of what they earn is the excess, whilst others may think 60% is the excess. If I can apply your questioning how could God "offer" that option at the expense of the needy?
Given this flexibility, who has most to lose if they make the unjust decision? The giver or the receiver?
Re reading AQ, i.e. trying to understand AQ to best of one's ability
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11871.msg84913#msg84913And therein lies the test. This life is a distinguishing mechanism. Only an illogical/unappreciative person would not read the book God sent for them (if one believes it to be the Word of God that is, which I assume most Muslims do
Re tested by means of each other
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12010.msg88278#msg88278As much as I hate to digress, it is semi-related, there is something in me (and in you it seems) that longs/craves for that justice. Its hard to explain feelings, but I know when I see injustice, there is just something raw that it touches in me, like I'm programmed to reject it. And just like my thirst proves water exists, perhaps my hardwired inner compass is telling me that justice exists too.
And I'm sure you are aware that differing opinion/views/actions/conditions is an essential distinguishing mechanism. It often brings out the real you. I experience this in everyday life as I'm sure you do too.A classic example of this is perhaps the oft-quoted "kill the non-believers" verses, where each side, Islam-phobe and Islam-phile, use them for their own means, regardless of context, thus showing their true colours.
Re discussion on the parable of Moses, honour killing, allowed?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596640.msg171127#msg171127Re struggle to understand AQ
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13793.msg118090#msg118090Any example in AQ that does not specifically state an expiation, a compensation for various things e.g. divorce, a punishment, an amount to give in charity, amount in dower, amount in inheritance, maintenance of wife/siblings/children. Any verses with so-called multiple-meaning interpretations. All these examples firmly rest it upon the individual to make the choice.
For the above, not only has the answer been placed in us innately (to some degree), but also, AQ has taught this by way of its "hikma" (wisdom/judgement) component, which essentially tries to instil ethics/morales/reasoning/logic/mindset by way of its parables/reasoning/logic/etc.
The above is not meant to be exhaustive, just a brief introduction to the subject.
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Salaam Wakas.
Brilliant post and I like the example of young children and how they are pure in thought and not brainwashed over a period of time.
Your post has made me ponder abit on this inner compass hmm i can still remember the inner shift that occured in me when reading about man made islam compared to the quranic islam. It did feel like what i was reading connected what was always inside me or you could say what i felt.
I think the nitty gritty topics like salah, shirk, hell, heaven are more difficult for me to connect to because of the traditional influence in the topics. God willing that will change over time.
Thanks for the post.
PEACE
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AQ states that the inclination of the human being is towards oneness/truth , and that the truth of its message is in ourselves and the world around us, i.e. everywhere .
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
Wow. I never really considered this ayah before but I find it amazing that God tells us so clearly that we all have the ability to use our internal faculties to see, feel and understand the truth. It goes so totally against the supposed necessity for hadith in order to understand.
Thanks for posting this. peace
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4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
Wow. I never really considered this ayah before but I find it amazing that God tells us so clearly that we all have the ability to use our internal faculties to see, feel and understand the truth. It goes so totally against the supposed necessity for hadith in order to understand.
Thanks for posting this. peace
Yes, really. It is amazing how we can read and recite, and go over very significant utterings without taking full conscience of what they are saying to us till somebody points it out, like wakes and you in this case.
It is very interesting, because to me, once you have pointed it out, it also puts plainly how what we see innerly and utwardly must be coherent and non contradictory if we are really getting at the truth. When things don't match, then we are bound to struggle to go deeper.
Salaam
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A loose translation of an Ayat may lead to drawing inferences that may not have any relation therewith.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/002.%20Meanings%20and%20Tabweeb%20of%20words/003.%20Arzal%20il%20Umre%20Alzheimer's%20disease/020.%2041.53%20Show%20them%20knowledge.gif
We will henceforth keep visually exposing, Our tangible-physical realities prevalent everywhere in the Universe and in their own bodies, to the eyes of those who do not accept the Qur'aan, in order that it may become evident/manifest for them that this Qur'aan is a statement of proven fact. -
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
Thanks Rana... I did not notice this ayat before!!! It makes my day sun
Will be one of my favourites too now.Peace. Salaam.
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Well it's thanks to Wakas for posting it really.
I used the Yusuf Ali version of Quran prior to this and it translates as "Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
Essentially it is saying the same thing so I wonder how it is that more people don't read that is see the power they have been given to seek knowledge for themselves? Maybe some things will remain a mystery to me
@ Mazhar - forgive me but I don't quite follow what you mean with your post.
PS I found a quick discussion on ayah 4153 which said "The Sign ? 4153?suggests that Truth can be found within us and in the creation at large" Nice Who is Abdul Hafeez Khan though; does anyone know of him?
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@ Mazhar - forgive me but I don't quite follow what you mean with your post.
PS I found a quick discussion on ayah 4153 which said "The Sign ? 4153?suggests that Truth can be found within us and in the creation at large" Nice Who is Abdul Hafeez Khan though; does anyone know of him?
This is an inference which has been drawn from 4153, while what is stated therein is totally something different. That is why I said;
A loose translation of an Ayat may lead to drawing inferences that may not have any relation therewith.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/002.%20Meanings%20and%20Tabweeb%20of%20words/003.%20Arzal%20il%20Umre%20Alzheimer's%20disease/020.%2041.53%20Show%20them%20knowledge.gif
We will henceforth keep visually exposing, Our tangible-physical realities prevalent everywhere in the Universe and in their own bodies, to the eyes of those who do not accept the Qur'aan, in order that it may become evident/manifest for them that this Qur'aan is a statement of proven fact.The Grand Qur'aan has informed that Allah will keep enabling the people to visually observe the hitherto invisible realities prevalent everywhere in the universe and within human body whereby it will become manifest to the people that the Qur'aan is a statement of proven fact. Why would it become manifest that the Qur'aan is a statement of proven fact when man sees/perceives new knowledge about universe and human body? If the things mentioned in a book written earlier in time and space are subsequently found to be a scientific fact only then it is evident to people that the Book is really a statement of proven facts and is not conjectural and presumptive.
Wisdom is acquired only when the invisible of the matter/relationship {} becomes visible/ perceivable through vision and intellect. But the remote past and remote future is beyond our vision and perception. Notwithstanding what distance we could cover in the past and the future we can never say with confidence/certainty that we have reached and seen/perceived the things at the point of beginning or ending in future. We can never encompass the matter in its entirety not only because of its extremely voluminous and diversified nature but also because we know the skies are expanding all the time, therefore if we can manage to reach its today's last boundary/limit it would have gone farther the moment we reach the point we thought is the ending point. It is an endless pursuit; this is the limitation of our capability of vision and intellect. We will always end up in a closed street.Knowledge is primarily divided into two branches; knowledge of things/matter and what happened/was talked about by the people/their dialogues/habits/acts in the past. The knowledge about the matter is verifiable in time and space. Anything said by anyone/book regarding physical matters could be subjected to verification in time and space about its truth to an exact detail.
If we find the words of a book relating to physical matters written earlier in time as true and factually and materially correct in all respects then we will have to believe too, in those statements of the Book which narrate some events/dialogues between people of past/historical statements. The falsification test of any book/statement could be the physical one. The facts mentioned in the Qur'aan about the Universe and human body is in itself also the falsification test of the Book.
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This is an inference which has been drawn from 4153, while what is stated therein is totally something different. That is why I said;
The Grand Qur'aan has informed that Allah will keep enabling the people to visually observe the hitherto invisible realities prevalent everywhere in the universe and within human body whereby it will become manifest to the people that the Qur'aan is a statement of proven fact. Why would it become manifest that the Qur'aan is a statement of proven fact when man sees/perceives new knowledge about universe and human body? If the things mentioned in a book written earlier in time and space are subsequently found to be a scientific fact only then it is evident to people that the Book is really a statement of proven facts and is not conjectural and presumptive.
Wisdom is acquired only when the invisible of the matter/relationship {} becomes visible/ perceivable through vision and intellect. But the remote past and remote future is beyond our vision and perception. Notwithstanding what distance we could cover in the past and the future we can never say with confidence/certainty that we have reached and seen/perceived the things at the point of beginning or ending in future. We can never encompass the matter in its entirety not only because of its extremely voluminous and diversified nature but also because we know the skies are expanding all the time, therefore if we can manage to reach its today's last boundary/limit it would have gone farther the moment we reach the point we thought is the ending point. It is an endless pursuit; this is the limitation of our capability of vision and intellect. We will always end up in a closed street.Knowledge is primarily divided into two branches; knowledge of things/matter and what happened/was talked about by the people/their dialogues/habits/acts in the past. The knowledge about the matter is verifiable in time and space. Anything said by anyone/book regarding physical matters could be subjected to verification in time and space about its truth to an exact detail.
If we find the words of a book relating to physical matters written earlier in time as true and factually and materially correct in all respects then we will have to believe too, in those statements of the Book which narrate some events/dialogues between people of past/historical statements. The falsification test of any book/statement could be the physical one. The facts mentioned in the Qur'aan about the Universe and human body is in itself also the falsification test of the Book.
I can see what you mean and I have nothing to object. However I do not see either in what an understanding as the one stated by rana and me contradicts that other understanding you exposed. I think both are part of the same reality, nos only physical or physiological, but also mental and intelectual. What would force us to make two separate worlds of that?
Salaam
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peace All,
FACT AQ would not ask us to look within and use our God-given heart/mind/reason if there was no truth within.Thus, if one is pure of thought, sincere, humble, just, righteous, logical etc then the truth will be much more clearer to this person than one who is not. This is very clear from AQ itself
Peace Wakas,
Outstanding dialogue, yes dialogue, because the wisdom you speak of is a conversation with the heart,
for it is the heart that will confirm or deny what you have said.Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart,
in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the
believers."The EGO must be put aside so that the truth can stand alone.
This is an honorable Quran.
In a protected book.
None can grasp it except the sincere.
On the other hand, the Quran is BALANCED.
What we taught him was not poetry, nor is he (a poet). This is but a formidable proof, and a profound
QuranTo preach to those who are alive, and to expose the disbelievers.
Praise God
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Wrote an article on it:
https://www.academia.edu/165798145/Internal_Distinguishing_Mechanisms_in_Quran
