Benefit to discussions on Sunni forums?
-
Salaam all.
I know there was a post about this sometime in the last few months but I just looked and couldn't locate it.
I have never, since leaving hadith (for want of a better way to put it) gone to another Islamic forum. Until today.
There was an issue I wanted to check out and test out to see if they could see my point. I have found that pretty much nobody appreciates my point there though laugh I suppose it would be a lot like a Sunni coming on here and trying to convince me of the greatness of following hadith.
So, just wondering am I wasting my time (and theirs)? Should I desist or do you think it's occasionally worth doing for those who might read and begin to question? Have you ever had any luck on them perhaps?
peace -
Btw - we are a "Pseudo-Islamic Group" laugh Cool.
Why Pseudo ???.... As for as I understand, we all try to follow the Qur'an, the book explaining Islam ....
Should I desist or do you think it's occasionally worth doing for those who might read and begin to question?
Yes I suppose it is occasionally worth doing it... You never know who might begin questionning themselves.... I last read a story of a sister who was very strict in following hadiths and begun to question herself after a brother wrote anti-hadith arguments.
Other-wise "And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord?s verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided." (Qur'an 1857)
So is this verse meaning that it has no utility to do this? I am also curious to know? -
peace
I was led to this via a link on someones comment http//www.defending-islam.com/page8.html
Just an easy way to help write us off I guess. lolAnyway...
Regarding that surah, I have often wondered upon whether we are supposed to be continually reminding/telling people where they are going wrong. I can see that it might be a mercy if the person is able to hear it - but it can work the other way can't it. Where you just tune out because if you feel you don't agree you don't want to keep hearing the same old same old. No doubt those who look to hadith would take that surah to mean it is our duty to do that - to let people know so they can avoid making mistakes. But I don't necessarily get that from this verse.
I guess there could be a benefit to going there occasionally so long as I don't end up all angry and frustrated. What happened with me is that I started with Quran only and always harboured doubts about hadith and while I tried to suppress those with the blanket of hadith in the end it didn't work. So I went seeking proper answers. But for others it is happening the other way - they have only known a practice involving hadith so inshAllah when they see things relating to The Quran only then maybe that plants the seed in them, or rather helps a seed to grow that is already in all of us.
-
So, just wondering am I wasting my time (and theirs)? Should I desist or do you think it's occasionally worth doing for those who might read and begin to question? Have you ever had any luck on them perhaps?
peaceAs for 'luck', I find better 'luck' on doing discussion offline (face to face meeting).
I usually start by something simple like- Make them realize that "their religion/sect/cult" is more appropriately to be called Sunniism / Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jamaah
- Put forward an argument that Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah could not be a member or follower of Sunniism.
With the "Syahada" as the evidence.
Would Muhammad say something like "I bear witness that I AM the Prophet of God"??
As thus, Muhammad shall violate the "Five Pillar of Sunniism". - I could also add that it is impossible for Abraham, Moses or Jesus to recite the "Sunnis Syahada" given Muhammad is not yet born during their lifetime.
And just stop there.. as people doesn't value other people opinion, people always value their own opinion.
And people need time to think it through by themselves..Salam / Peace
-
As for 'luck', I find better 'luck' on doing discussion offline (face to face meeting).
I usually start by something simple like- Make them realize that "their religion/sect/cult" is more appropriately to be called Sunniism / Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jamaah
- Put forward an argument that Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah could not be a member or follower of Sunniism.
With the "Syahada" as the evidence.
Would Muhammad say something like "I bear witness that I AM the Prophet of God"??
As thus, Muhammad shall violate the "Five Pillar of Sunniism". - I could also add that it is impossible for Abraham, Moses or Jesus to recite the "Sunnis Syahada" given Muhammad is not yet born during their lifetime.
And just stop there.. as people doesn't value other people opinion, people always value their own opinion.
And people need time to think it through by themselves..Salam / Peace
peace Jafar
Thank you - some excellent advice! It's true about people valueing their own opinions lol - I can definitely see the benefit in giving those small bits of information, as you suggested, but then leaving it at that to give them time to digest. I think small bits would be the only way for me to get those things past the Muslims I know face to face too! lol.
-
But for others it is happening the other way - they have only known a practice involving hadith so inshAllah when they see things relating to The Quran only then maybe that plants the seed in them, or rather helps a seed to grow that is already in all of us.
rana,
i was one of those. growing up, i remember how i always put my right shoe first because that is what the prophet did. i remember how special i felt when i heard someone say that prophet muhammad had curly hair and mine are curly. never wore anything or decorated the house with fabric that had human or animal print. i can go on and on... but there were a lot of things that troubled me, didn't make sense and then there were things that i always had difficulties with. i was convinced that God had sealed my heart and i was destined to hell. and then i read the koran in english.
what if years ago, i heard someone say something different than what I grew up practicing? i think that you should speak and it is not to convince anyone who is set on their path but to reach out to someone. i am grateful to God that He guided me, but you know how many people are turned away from 'islam' or are struggling, troubled.
-
rana,
i was one of those. growing up, i remember how i always put my right shoe first because that is what the prophet did. i remember how special i felt when i heard someone say that prophet muhammad had curly hair and mine are curly. never wore anything or decorated the house with fabric that had human or animal print. i can go on and on... but there were a lot of things that troubled me, didn't make sense and then there were things that i always had difficulties with. i was convinced that God had sealed my heart and i was destined to hell. and then i read the koran in english.
what if years ago, i heard someone say something different than what I grew up practicing? i think that you should speak and it is not to convince anyone who is set on their path but to reach out to someone. i am grateful to God that He guided me, but you know how many people are turned away from 'islam' or are struggling, troubled.
Thanks for sharing that justamuslim. I think I learned something through the experience (more than just I don't know that much lol) because although a couple of people were quite rude to me, essentially most were nice people who argued their case strongly but politely. It was a good reminder to me to be pleasant with people and to try and be patient with them. After all we won't be judged on whether we cause them to change but one whether we did our best to help others. By best my assumption is quality over quantity.
-
After all we won't be judged on whether we cause them to change but one whether we did our best to help others.
Salam Rana, you are very wise.. indeed it is true, it is more important to help others, regardless of what they believe.
It does reminds me of the old saying
"It's more important to be nice".Salam / Peace
-
Salam Rana, you are very wise.. indeed it is true, it is more important to help others, regardless of what they believe.
It does reminds me of the old saying
"It's more important to be nice".Salam / Peace
God is wise; not so much me Jafar lol! I'm trying angel
Wasalaam D
-
Oh, well, theres a new one which part of Quran tells us (supposedly) that disbelievers are najis pls? Could someone provide me the reference for this? Thanks
There is no such verdict that "disbelievers" are najis. Only idol worshippers, who declare hand sculpted statues as various ileaha with different imaginative names, are declared so with reference to visit to Masjid al Haraam.
Indeed only the Mushrikuen, those who worship hand sculpted statues calling them iela'aha after assigning various names, are draggled unclean, therefore, let them not come near the Sacred Mosque after this year.
-
Salam Mazhar
Kindly explain Mushrikoon are only those who are idol worshippers with hand crafted.....
JavedNon believer can be everyone, but by this act they do not loose their original identity. They retain it;
These are two different identities, who have done the same thing, but 'Najis" is used only for Mushrikoon and not Kafiroon.
-
Salaam,
For a while, I tried to debate with sunnis on their forums. It doesn't work. You will either get banned or shouted down. Every now and then you'll find a gem who is willing to debate in a reasoned way, but it is a rarity in my experience.
Question is, if you have absolutely no presence on their platforms, how will they have an informed opinion about our position?
peace
-
Non believer can be everyone, but by this act they do not loose their original identity. They retain it;
These are two different identities, who have done the same thing, but 'Najis" is used only for Mushrikoon and not Kafiroon.
@ javed1 & Mazhar
Thanks, though if I started to discuss those matters I would be waaaay out of my depth. Which may beg the question 'should I be on a sunni forum in the first place?' hmm Maybe, maybe not. It was enlightening any way.
@ Wakas - thanks for the links. Very helpful.
@ Mushu - yeah it's a double-edged sword really. I guess letting go of the attachment to wanting to change people helps. It's that grasping sort of wish that others would see things your way that really seems to cause problemos. I especially can feel "this is sooo simple" why can't they see it?? But of course it works the other way too; no doubt some of them are thinking 'what's wrong with her that we are showing her and she can't see'.
-
I guess letting go of the attachment to wanting to change people helps. It's that grasping sort of wish that others would see things your way that really seems to cause problemos. I especially can feel "this is sooo simple" why can't they see it?? But of course it works the other way too; no doubt some of them are thinking 'what's wrong with her that we are showing her and she can't see'.
same can be said when discussing the bible with people who believe jesus is son of God. how can anyone read the bible and still yet believe jesus is son of god? as one christian said to me it is not good to ask too many questions as this is another way of how satan leads people astray. since you are child, you are taught not to ask, not to think, not to question, not to wonder....you are told what to believe and what is the 'truth' and if you don't follow then you will go to hell, ostracized, shunned from your family and community, well...it is hard to not become a follower. if you are told that all of your sins will be forgiven if you accept jesus as son of god, how can you then not accept jesus as your savior?
worshiping ganesh would not make sense but for a hindu believing a deity that has no shape, form, not tangible may not make sense.
