Benefit to discussions on Sunni forums?
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So, just wondering am I wasting my time (and theirs)? Should I desist or do you think it's occasionally worth doing for those who might read and begin to question? Have you ever had any luck on them perhaps?
peaceAs for 'luck', I find better 'luck' on doing discussion offline (face to face meeting).
I usually start by something simple like- Make them realize that "their religion/sect/cult" is more appropriately to be called Sunniism / Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jamaah
- Put forward an argument that Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah could not be a member or follower of Sunniism.
With the "Syahada" as the evidence.
Would Muhammad say something like "I bear witness that I AM the Prophet of God"??
As thus, Muhammad shall violate the "Five Pillar of Sunniism". - I could also add that it is impossible for Abraham, Moses or Jesus to recite the "Sunnis Syahada" given Muhammad is not yet born during their lifetime.
And just stop there.. as people doesn't value other people opinion, people always value their own opinion.
And people need time to think it through by themselves..Salam / Peace
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As for 'luck', I find better 'luck' on doing discussion offline (face to face meeting).
I usually start by something simple like- Make them realize that "their religion/sect/cult" is more appropriately to be called Sunniism / Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jamaah
- Put forward an argument that Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah could not be a member or follower of Sunniism.
With the "Syahada" as the evidence.
Would Muhammad say something like "I bear witness that I AM the Prophet of God"??
As thus, Muhammad shall violate the "Five Pillar of Sunniism". - I could also add that it is impossible for Abraham, Moses or Jesus to recite the "Sunnis Syahada" given Muhammad is not yet born during their lifetime.
And just stop there.. as people doesn't value other people opinion, people always value their own opinion.
And people need time to think it through by themselves..Salam / Peace
peace Jafar
Thank you - some excellent advice! It's true about people valueing their own opinions lol - I can definitely see the benefit in giving those small bits of information, as you suggested, but then leaving it at that to give them time to digest. I think small bits would be the only way for me to get those things past the Muslims I know face to face too! lol.
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But for others it is happening the other way - they have only known a practice involving hadith so inshAllah when they see things relating to The Quran only then maybe that plants the seed in them, or rather helps a seed to grow that is already in all of us.
rana,
i was one of those. growing up, i remember how i always put my right shoe first because that is what the prophet did. i remember how special i felt when i heard someone say that prophet muhammad had curly hair and mine are curly. never wore anything or decorated the house with fabric that had human or animal print. i can go on and on... but there were a lot of things that troubled me, didn't make sense and then there were things that i always had difficulties with. i was convinced that God had sealed my heart and i was destined to hell. and then i read the koran in english.
what if years ago, i heard someone say something different than what I grew up practicing? i think that you should speak and it is not to convince anyone who is set on their path but to reach out to someone. i am grateful to God that He guided me, but you know how many people are turned away from 'islam' or are struggling, troubled.
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rana,
i was one of those. growing up, i remember how i always put my right shoe first because that is what the prophet did. i remember how special i felt when i heard someone say that prophet muhammad had curly hair and mine are curly. never wore anything or decorated the house with fabric that had human or animal print. i can go on and on... but there were a lot of things that troubled me, didn't make sense and then there were things that i always had difficulties with. i was convinced that God had sealed my heart and i was destined to hell. and then i read the koran in english.
what if years ago, i heard someone say something different than what I grew up practicing? i think that you should speak and it is not to convince anyone who is set on their path but to reach out to someone. i am grateful to God that He guided me, but you know how many people are turned away from 'islam' or are struggling, troubled.
Thanks for sharing that justamuslim. I think I learned something through the experience (more than just I don't know that much lol) because although a couple of people were quite rude to me, essentially most were nice people who argued their case strongly but politely. It was a good reminder to me to be pleasant with people and to try and be patient with them. After all we won't be judged on whether we cause them to change but one whether we did our best to help others. By best my assumption is quality over quantity.
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After all we won't be judged on whether we cause them to change but one whether we did our best to help others.
Salam Rana, you are very wise.. indeed it is true, it is more important to help others, regardless of what they believe.
It does reminds me of the old saying
"It's more important to be nice".Salam / Peace
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Salam Rana, you are very wise.. indeed it is true, it is more important to help others, regardless of what they believe.
It does reminds me of the old saying
"It's more important to be nice".Salam / Peace
God is wise; not so much me Jafar lol! I'm trying angel
Wasalaam D
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Oh, well, theres a new one which part of Quran tells us (supposedly) that disbelievers are najis pls? Could someone provide me the reference for this? Thanks
There is no such verdict that "disbelievers" are najis. Only idol worshippers, who declare hand sculpted statues as various ileaha with different imaginative names, are declared so with reference to visit to Masjid al Haraam.
Indeed only the Mushrikuen, those who worship hand sculpted statues calling them iela'aha after assigning various names, are draggled unclean, therefore, let them not come near the Sacred Mosque after this year.
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Salam Mazhar
Kindly explain Mushrikoon are only those who are idol worshippers with hand crafted.....
JavedNon believer can be everyone, but by this act they do not loose their original identity. They retain it;
These are two different identities, who have done the same thing, but 'Najis" is used only for Mushrikoon and not Kafiroon.
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Salaam,
For a while, I tried to debate with sunnis on their forums. It doesn't work. You will either get banned or shouted down. Every now and then you'll find a gem who is willing to debate in a reasoned way, but it is a rarity in my experience.
Question is, if you have absolutely no presence on their platforms, how will they have an informed opinion about our position?
peace
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Non believer can be everyone, but by this act they do not loose their original identity. They retain it;
These are two different identities, who have done the same thing, but 'Najis" is used only for Mushrikoon and not Kafiroon.
@ javed1 & Mazhar
Thanks, though if I started to discuss those matters I would be waaaay out of my depth. Which may beg the question 'should I be on a sunni forum in the first place?' hmm Maybe, maybe not. It was enlightening any way.
@ Wakas - thanks for the links. Very helpful.
@ Mushu - yeah it's a double-edged sword really. I guess letting go of the attachment to wanting to change people helps. It's that grasping sort of wish that others would see things your way that really seems to cause problemos. I especially can feel "this is sooo simple" why can't they see it?? But of course it works the other way too; no doubt some of them are thinking 'what's wrong with her that we are showing her and she can't see'.
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I guess letting go of the attachment to wanting to change people helps. It's that grasping sort of wish that others would see things your way that really seems to cause problemos. I especially can feel "this is sooo simple" why can't they see it?? But of course it works the other way too; no doubt some of them are thinking 'what's wrong with her that we are showing her and she can't see'.
same can be said when discussing the bible with people who believe jesus is son of God. how can anyone read the bible and still yet believe jesus is son of god? as one christian said to me it is not good to ask too many questions as this is another way of how satan leads people astray. since you are child, you are taught not to ask, not to think, not to question, not to wonder....you are told what to believe and what is the 'truth' and if you don't follow then you will go to hell, ostracized, shunned from your family and community, well...it is hard to not become a follower. if you are told that all of your sins will be forgiven if you accept jesus as son of god, how can you then not accept jesus as your savior?
worshiping ganesh would not make sense but for a hindu believing a deity that has no shape, form, not tangible may not make sense.
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same can be said when discussing the bible with people who believe jesus is son of God. how can anyone read the bible and still yet believe jesus is son of god? as one christian said to me it is not good to ask too many questions as this is another way of how satan leads people astray. since you are child, you are taught not to ask, not to think, not to question, not to wonder....you are told what to believe and what is the 'truth' and if you don't follow then you will go to hell, ostracized, shunned from your family and community, well...it is hard to not become a follower. if you are told that all of your sins will be forgiven if you accept jesus as son of god, how can you then not accept jesus as your savior?
worshiping ganesh would not make sense but for a hindu believing a deity that has no shape, form, not tangible may not make sense.
justamuslim you make excellent points here. I'm sure it happens in all religions and I have certainly heard that coming from Muslims - that asking "too many questions as this is another way of how satan leads people astray" o I think you're right about it being instilled right from when they are children. I listened to a lecture ... Winning our Children back to Islam I think...and it talked about the Muslim children who grow up in western countries. It said that sometimes (or mostly?) they still get taught not to question things so much at home BUT of course they mostly attend western schools, not Islamic. So in that setting they do learn to question. It creates problems because they are taught to question but when it comes to Islam it's -X (unless they find a more progressive mosque I guess).
I can understand that asking too many questions all at once can be confusing because I sometimes feel like that ) But how can we learn and grow and test things to know if they are true, if we can't question. I really feel if Islam can't stand up to people questioning and criticising then it can't be very strong and I don't believe for a moment that Allah's message was weak! Likewise if Muslims take offense at criticism from within, if we have to sugar coat everything then things will not improve and progress at the rate they could.
As an example of what I mean I have had many conversations where people only want to tell me about and talk about how much Islam has given women. That is fine and women do fairly well in Al Quran (of course and so they should). But when it seems like these people are living in denial of the reality of many Muslim women who are actually having their rights trampled, it really makes me frustrated (and sometimes really mad). Another example is when there has been an act of violence by Muslims against the west and people try and tell me it wasn't Muslims at all - it was someone else trying to destroy us and make us look bad. brickwall They may not have been following the Quran but if they call themselves Muslim then they are Muslims at least in the eyes of the world and I simply don't believe in most conspiracy theories I hear. I do believe that many shocking things happen but I think it would be pretty rare for something like that to be completely concocted.
This not being able to think and question really must end. )
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worshiping ganesh would not make sense but for a hindu believing a deity that has no shape, form, not tangible may not make sense.
On the contrary it does make sense to him, but he is adament, not because of having a solid argument but merely emotionally. And ultimately finds this excuse;
"We do not worship/allegiant to them except for the purpose that they may cause us to be nearer in access to Allah".
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On the contrary it does make sense to him, but he is adament, not because of having a solid argument but merely emotionally. And ultimately finds this excuse;
"We do not worship/allegiant to them except for the purpose that they may cause us to be nearer in access to Allah".
That's an interesting one. So you mean they argue that by worshipping something else it is bringing them closer to Allah? If so, I bet that argument could work for many things lol
