Deceptive ranslation-"Over it is nineteen"

Mazhar

For convenient reading alongwith orginal Arabic text please read here

There are nineteen males appointed for guarding upon her-Hell-Prison.

And be aware that We have not appointed the Warders of Hell except Angels
This Ayah comprises one of the compact and a simply worded sentence wherein there is no ambiguity in perceiving the meanings and the message conveyed therein. However, unfortunately this is also the one, which got a very casual attention by the majority of English translators of Grand Qur'aan. They merely translated the individual words as if they were isolated scattered words mentioned in a dictionary and not a comprehensive sentence recorded in a formal book, with each word having a relationship with the other to convey a complete thought and information. Some examples of its translation are

YUSUFALI Over it are Nineteen.
PICKTHAL Above it are nineteen.
SHAKIR Over it are nineteen.
Rashad Khalifa Over it is nineteen

As may be seen, they have put the translation of individual words of Arabic text, which is from right to left, in the same sequence from left to right. However, they all have used a "copula"-Present simple tense "are" to connect them, while Rashad Khalifa employed "is" reflecting that he took as an English singular digit "nineteen".
It was ignored is that the sentence is an inverted nominal sentence where -"Nineteen males" is the subject/topic of the sentence. The cause of inversion is also evident from the fact that a prepositional phrase is at the beginning of the sentence, which is the location of subject in normal circumstances, and the subject too is indefinite. The prepositional phrase is relating to the predicate of the sentence, and feminine pronoun "her" refers back to feminine Proper noun denoting a place where men will be forced to enter.

In Arabic, unlike English and Urdu, the nouns of numbers do not reflect the digits but an inscription and quantitative/numerical description of a tangible object/thing and living being. It is the reason that they have masculine and feminine characteristic.

this does not mean "nineteen". It conveys, even when placed outside a sentence in isolation, the perception and meanings of "Nineteen males-masculine objects".

A complete thought conveying sentence is the one, which keeps the listener/reader to remain silent, and he needs not raise questions for clarification and elaboration. English words "Over it is nineteen" in itself is not a complete sentence and conveys nothing to the listener, except that one may perceive, feeling surprised, that he is saying that over eighteen is nineteen.

The indefinite subject reflects that those nineteen male guards are not the exclusive and particularly named ones but the fact that the numerical strength of the warders guarding and administering the affairs of the Hell-Prison at any point in time is nineteen. It is not describing a total strength of the workers assigned the job of administering the affairs of Hell-Prison. The immediately following sentence is making the listener aware and knowledgeable as to who those "Nineteen males" are and as to what is their assignment with relation to "upon her".

And be aware that We have not appointed the Warders of Hell except Angels

In Arabic, all nouns and pronouns are either masculine or feminine. Pronouns also refer to non-living objects as well to living organisms and beings of varying levels of intellect. However, the core meaning of the English word "it" is a pronoun used to refer to an object or animal and sometimes a baby; indicating point of view, something reported, indicating weather and time, description of experience etc. Therefore in consideration of the fact that pronouns in Arabic are different for things and objects of masculine and feminine description, it is better that for a feminine noun mentioned earlier the English pronoun "her" be used to refer to feminine objects and places etc. Pronoun "her" also refer to a car, machine, country, ship, nation, location etc that has been mentioned earlier or whose identity is known. This will facilitate the reader who is not conversant with Arabic text about the gender of the previously mentioned noun considered in Arabic language. This will particularly be helpful with regard to understanding the statements about physical/scientific disclosures of Grand Qur'aan.

The beauty and sublimity of individual Ayah-verbal presentation of a unitary passage of Qur'aan is that it unambiguously conveys a complete thought conveniently perceivable by the listener/reader even without having recourse to the entire context wherein it finds her location. The only condition is that the listener/reader knows the rules governing Arabic speech and not merely the Arabic vocabulary.

However, the majority of people are like me who do not possess the in-depth knowledge of Arabic language and of its niceties and delicacies, therefore the manner of reading the Qur'aan for perceiving the thought nearest to that conveyed is

Is it for reason that they have not made it their habit to cross-examine the contents of the Qur'aan critically pursuing it in sequence?

Grand Qur'aan is the Book that contains such voluminous data and information, condensed and compacted in comparatively limited number of words, which perhaps the humanity may never be able to transcribe it in its entirety. The Book is sub-divided or comprises of unitary-passages singularly called -Verbal mirroring of a tangible thing/fact and collectively as "the passages of him/it-masculine pronoun in the Possessive Phrase referring to Qur'aan"
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The Book, We have sent it to you, the Messenger . This has the peculiar characteristic of permanence and perpetuation-to stay forever. The purpose and objective is that the people may pursue/critically examine/link/study its Aa'ya'at-verbal passages mirroring established realities and facts; and so that the men of wisdom who look into matters and conduct objectively without overlapping it with emotions/prejudices/biases/whims/caprices may remember and orate to others.

Verb Imperfect; third person; plural; masculine; ; Mood Indicative evident by ""; and - Subject Pronoun, nominative state; Verbal Noun.(1)482(2)4724=1
Prefixed Particle of Purpose + Verb Imperfect; third person; plural; masculine; Mood Subjunctive; upon her. They refuse not the word of Allah that He has commanded to them, and they perform that which they are commanded to perform.
Rashad Khalifa translated this Ayah in these words "O you who believe, protect yourselves and your families from the Hellfire whose fuel is people and rocks. Guarding it are stern and powerful angels who never disobey God; they do whatever they are commanded to do"

Now let us see the both by placing them together

Rashad Khalifa "Guarding it are stern and powerful angels"

Rashad Khalifa "Over it is nineteen".

Both the sentences have in their beginning the prepositional phrase instantly indicating that both are inverted nominal sentences where the delayed/following indefinite word is the subject. When a prepositional phrase in an Arabic sentence is at the place of predicate of the sentence, a verb is presumed/estimated, to which the Preposition/particle indicatively relates and links. Rashad Khalifa seems aware of this simple and basic rule of Arabic language while translating in the first instance and purposely forgets it at the second instance.
Both the above sentences have the context of Hellfire to which the third person, singular, feminine pronoun in the phrase refers back.

Had Rashad Khalifa been honest, he should have translated the second sentence, as "Guarding it are nineteen males/angels".

unknownuser

Obvious "it" refers to entities over the fire not Qur'an ?

7428-31
Not it lets remain (the fire)
And not it leaves scorching the human (the fire)
Over it (the fire) nine ten
And not We have made keepers the fire only malikatan
And not We have made their counting only fit'natan (obsession, blindness, devoid of logic) for those kafar ?

Edip_Yuksel

Obvious "it" refers to entities over the fire not Qur'an ?

7428-31
Not it lets remain (the fire)
And not it leaves scorching the human (the fire)
Over it (the fire) nine ten
And not We have made keepers the fire only malikatan
And not We have made their counting only fit'natan (obsession, blindness, devoid of logic) for those kafar ?

Which one do You See Hell or Fire?

http//19.org/147/which-one-do-you-see-hell-or-miracle/

Peace,
Edip

unknownuser

Which one do You See Hell or Fire?

What's the difference?

If you meant Hell or Miracle -- there is no miracle only infatuation with numerology by the clueless.

Mazhar

What's the difference?

If you meant Hell or Miracle -- there is no miracle only infatuation with numerology by the clueless.

Google translates it as in Arabic. And in reverse order translates Arabic word as ignorant. However its true meanings are emotionalist, which could be to an extent of being overpowered and enslaved by passions and emotions. And such person is clueless. You have an excellent choice of word.

Edip_Yuksel

What's the difference?

If you meant Hell or Miracle -- there is no miracle only infatuation with numerology by the clueless.

I gave you a link to educate yourself or to criticize it with intellect and knowledge. Repeating your bigotry and prejudice is not debating, it is called parroting others.

I challenge you to respond the article; but like all those who cannot see the divine sign because of the smoke and fire in their minds, you too will never be able to respond the article properly.

Peace,
Edip

unknownuser

I gave you a link to educate yourself or to criticize it with intellect and knowledge. Repeating your bigotry and prejudice is not debating, it is called parroting others.

I challenge you to respond the article; but like all those who cannot see the divine sign because of the smoke and fire in their minds, you too will never be able to respond the article properly.

Peace,
Edip

You gave me a link on stupid numerology for the naive; one of the dumbest things on the internet.

Perhaps educate yourself with an even better code 29 which of course is harder to find multiples.

Summary...29 words in 1st chapter...

Peace!

loxbox13

I gave you a link to educate yourself or to criticize it with intellect and knowledge. Repeating your bigotry and prejudice is not debating, it is called parroting others.

I challenge you to respond the article; but like all those who cannot see the divine sign because of the smoke and fire in their minds, you too will never be able to respond the article properly.

Peace,
Edip

I read your page, I appreciate the efforts you're making to prouve the 19 miracle, but the intro about people closing their mind is totally apsychological from your part , kind of a hidden intimidation , or maybe to get people to focus first , in both ways, I feel you're a smart man.

anyway.
When I study languages, I am good in 5 of them, I can make an analogie and see the origin of words myself without looking in the british version or frensh version etc....
I can't see the word SAQUAR , other than SUFFER. , to me it means two words , and nothing else, SUFFER , or SULFUR. and this word is phonetically the same in every language, and what you put SUFFER or SULFUR in the place of the word SAQUAR , it makes perfect sense, at least to me. SAQUAR doesn't mean hell . HELL must have a different word in the Quran, if it exists litterally, or metaphorically..

Al Bashar, according to research away from traditional arab dictionnaries, MEans a preacher
When Allah Said I will create BASHAR , it translates a SPEAKER or PREACHER, and has nothing to do with skin
so BAshar is a human, and it is an attribut of humans, meaning preachers. it is this attibute that differentiated us from animals (al anaam ) , speech.
every rassoul , was MUBASHIR ( preacher ) and NADHIRA ( warner )

LAWAHA , translates laying , in many dialects, in arab countries, specially north africa, LOUHH and LAWAH means throw.

( I deceided to study the arab words in a different approach, I found many words make sense in arab strrt dialect, when compared with words explications of hadiths exemple, QUAHAR in hadiths means MIGHTY or something similar, in the dialect of Algeria it means the coherent. notice the ressemblance phonetic between QUAHAR and coherent)
about the 19 , it could be true, there is this possibility, and there is a possibility that it could be false, something about trust, has to be verified by the individual, and every individual, if one cannot verify, there is no blame even if it is a true miracle, I myself don't believe in miracles, I don't believe the moses had a Rod and Threw it and became a serpent, and I am 100% sure of that . The way people imagiene it is all false and doesn't make sense, let's say someone can do a miracle like they imagine moses did, can he declare himself a messenger ? or an angel ? do we accept it or look for the tricks of how he did it ?). Moses never throw a rod, and there was never a living snake, nor Isa riaised the dead, nor 19 is an iportant miracle, to me, 19 created more confusion that clearing the quran. all it did is create another sect, and messengers and miracles don't create sects, and above all, I don't believe amessenger will come , if there is to come, to comunity of a city, or a mosque, If there is a messenger coming, he will come for Obama and sarkozy and others , we're prople trying to and not shoing us how to wash our hands or faces.

Allah knows best