The Historical Makkah - An African Empire
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My question is still there and you as usual reply it through different stories read, I am interested in solid evidence. Let us see how the author of this thread answers it.
I have noticed two basic problems in your posts, one depending too much on hearsay and second claiming too big on those assertions.
Just to mention one from your many erroneous claims
Who was Abu Abdullah Mlik ibn Anas ibn Mlik Ibn Ab 'mir Ibn 'Amr Ibnul-Hrith Ibn Ghaimn Ibn Khuthail Ibn 'Amr Ibnul-Haarith?look at this and tell me if you find it normal !!!
Who was Abu Abdullah Mlik ibn Anas ibn Mlik Ibn Ab 'mir Ibn 'Amr Ibnul-Hrith Ibn Ghaimn Ibn Khuthail Ibn 'Amr Ibnul-Haarith ibn Mlik ibn Anas ? -
look at this and tell me if you find it normal !!!
Who was Abu Abdullah Mlik ibn Anas ibn Mlik Ibn Ab 'mir Ibn 'Amr Ibnul-Hrith Ibn Ghaimn Ibn Khuthail Ibn 'Amr Ibnul-Haarith ibn Mlik ibn Anas ?Yes it is very normal for Arabs! but any how Where is the answer? let me make it easier for you
Who is Imam, Malik ibn Anas?
Check it and be a gentle man to admit your following mistake like many others you have made while postingAhadith are written all by persians, all of them
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Yes it is very normal for Arabs! but any how Where is the answer? let me make it easier for you
Who is Imam, Malik ibn Anas?
Check it and be a gentle man to admit your following mistake like many others you have made while postingMalik ibn anas is a myth, that is why no scholar in the muslim world has a copy of Malik ibn Anas older than 200 years. find the original, and than speak of authencity, same as bukhari, the oldest copy is a couple of hundred years old, if not the turks who wrote it.
but , if there is n copy a 1000 years old of Anas Ibn malik, how can you trust , that the original is lost, but we have a 200 years old copy !!!! time when all muslims were colonised.
U want to believe that anas ibnmalik is real, it's your choice. I personnaly , I am sure inmy belief that it's a fabrication, and it's not that old as they say. they wrote books for us and they said these are 240 years after the prophete, and in reality, even bujhari was written no more than 300 years ago. -
Hmmm. -
I'm not sure what I can add to the debate after all that's gone on, but to have a follower of al hadith attack me for being too reliant on hearsay is quiet something. What part is based on hearsay anyway? My assertion is based primarily on the Quran and established historical facts, where it is speculative, I explicitly stated that it is my own personal, original research and it should be clear to any intelligent person that it should be treated as such. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be defending against, it seems you just generally don't like what I've written. Was there something in particular you wanted me to address? -
Right...
So who shifted it to Saudia Arabia at its present place and when?
all the predictions of Allah in Quran are wrong? or simple the Quran was also re-written as was the history by Muslims.No one 'shifted it' to Saudi Arabia. I believe that Ali made a claim to an ancestral right to rule over Mohammed's followers, supported by influential elements in Persia who had been winning converts to their fake Islam even during Mohammed's lifetime, they had even directly fought battles with Mohammed and his generals and were a constant threat. This claim of Ali's was unsuccessful, in part because Uthman had established a proto-dynasty in the Levant. The Persian faction killed Uthman and declared Ali ruler over the western Muslims who prayed facing Jerusalem, as Mohammed had done, and the eastern Muslims which had no continuity from Mohammed and mostly prayed facing the Kabaa. Uthman's people went to war with the Persians, a 200 year war that only ended when the Abbasid dynasty came to power and began systematically creating their brand of Islam, a kind of Persian Catholicism that became traditionalist Islam. By this time they had already long since adopted the Kabaa as a kibla, mainly due to the fact that they had never controlled Jerusalem before that point.
The predictions of Allah? Not sure which predictions you mean exactly?
The Quran was not rewritten, the Quran does not mention anything to do with a new House of God and the history was not rewritten, it was made up freestyle in the first place.
I've done my best to answer your questions, albeit quickly, but if you care to discuss these matters respectfully, I'd be happy to go into a lot more depth.
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Selam
A kind reminder to people who start a debate or conjecture. If possible please reference your sources so it can be varified when posting historical facts or archaeological finds or alternative views to traditional ones. This will add solidity to arguments/conjectures made rather than appearing that they are plucked from the air. This will also help us in our own research.
May Allah guide us in the right path.
Peace
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I fully accept the need to validate such controversial claims and I'm happy to do my best to achieve that, but it would take a whole book on the subject. Perhaps one day, Inshallah, I'll write that book, but for now I just wanted to put forwards an original hypothesis regarding the Kingdom of Makuria. I got drawn into a debate with another member, but it was off topic, so I didn't give it proper treatment. I just answered his questions, which regarded my personal opinion, as frankly as I could. I'm much more interested in discussing the post I opened the thread on and any relevant matters other members raise, but I feel I should try and answer any questions put to me personally.
That said, your points are still very valid, it is important to back up claims with proper references, but even that can be difficult when the subject is ancient history, a discipline which demands a certain amount of 'filling in the gaps'. Of course, you do it objectively and you do it critically, but you do have to fill in the gaps. This is why historians and archaeologists hate one another. ;D
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loxbox
U want to believe that anas ibnmalik is real, it's your choice. I personnaly , I am sure inmy belief that it's a fabrication, and it's not that old as they say. they wrote books for us and they said these are 240 years after the prophete, and in reality, even bujhari was written no more than 300 years ago.
I told you, you are too impress with the absurd ideas prevailing on internet, because it seems you read a lot but don't give it time to analyse, what you read.
To many Musa (AS), Issa(AS), and even Muhammad peace is upon him are myths, they never existed; there is plenty of material available on that, same as talking about Hazrat Maryam not being a VIRGIN.
To them every thing is a myth? you mentioned Zoroastrians ruled for specific period of time; I say it is a myth, What is your source for that? think twice before you answer. -
Hmmm. Undecided
I'm not sure what I can add to the debate after all that's gone on, but to have a follower of al hadith attack me for being too reliant on hearsay is quiet something. What part is based on hearsay anyway? My assertion is based primarily on the Quran and established historical facts, where it is speculative, I explicitly stated that it is my own personal, original research and it should be clear to any intelligent person that it should be treated as such. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be defending against, it seems you just generally don't like what I've written. Was there something in particular you wanted me to address?Your assertion is wrong, first no one is attacking you, second I don't see any al-hadith follower here.
What are those established historical facts? and where in the Quran it says that Makkah is some where in North Africa.No one 'shifted it' to Saudi Arabia. I believe that Ali made a claim to an ancestral right to rule over Mohammed's followers, supported by influential elements in Persia who had been winning converts to their fake Islam even during Mohammed's lifetime, they had even directly fought battles with Mohammed and his generals and were a constant threat.
Now if you don't call this hearsay; what else?
hope4
Selam
A kind reminder to people who start a debate or conjecture. If possible please reference your sources so it can be varified when posting historical facts or archaeological finds or alternative views to traditional ones. This will add solidity to arguments/conjectures made rather than appearing that they are plucked from the air. This will also help us in our own research.
May Allah guide us in the right path.
PeaceFair enough, nicely put.
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loxbox
I told you, you are too impress with the absurd ideas prevailing on internet, because it seems you read a lot but don't give it time to analyse, what you read.
To many Musa (AS), Issa(AS), and even Muhammad peace is upon him are myths, they never existed; there is plenty of material available on that, same as talking about Hazrat Maryam not being a VIRGIN.
To them every thing is a myth? you mentioned Zoroastrians ruled for specific period of time; I say it is a myth, What is your source for that? think twice before you answer.You're right, There is no proof zorostarians rules arabs
but I can Assure you one thing, FRENSH rules north africa and british rules the middle east
they're both not christians but fire worshippers
the frensh wrote the Hadiths and Tabry history in Algeria-morocco-Tunisia , and the british wrote some for the middle east.
the Frensh Tabri group are the ones who wrote the whole history of Islam that you know. remember, Arab language was the international language, and every one spoke arabic, and they know the true meanings of the words of the Quran.
the east became west, and the west became east, it is a challenge they did to the LORD ALLAH.they didn't modify the words of the Quran, they couldn't alter the text , or maybe, they did some but couldnt destroy the quran, because too many people had the love of memorising the text, and they did it to protect the book of our LORD AlLLAH. so they attacked the arab tongue, they invented the arabic language with their accomplices christian lebanese and egyptians and middle east BAATH group, they invented dictionnaries for the arabic language, and hadiths to ritualise the principles of the Quran. and therefore, without altering the words, they altered the meanings.
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the frensh wrote the Hadiths and Tabry history in Algeria-morocco-Tunisia , and the british wrote some for the middle east.
the Frensh Tabri group are the ones who wrote the whole history of Islam that you know. remember, Arab language was the international language, and every one spoke arabic, and they know the true meanings of the words of the Quran.
the east became west, and the west became east, it is a challenge they did to the LORD ALLAH.Time to wake up dear loxbox!
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Salam Servant Of The Compassionate and Truth..
First you need to explain on what do you mean by "Makkah of the Quran"..
Second.. just because the name are quite similar it doesn't mean that it's the same.. so better watch out for this trap..
Third the research of 'mitochondrial Eve" does prove genetically that most probably the first (traceable) mother of all homo sapiens are originated in the area which you mentioned..
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve