Masturbation
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Wa'alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh;
Firstly you focus on the ?thought leading to masturbation?, and now you turn around and focus upon the ?act? itself. Why do you not look at them properly as a whole (i.e. together) as I have been doing (when we do that people retreat into the realm of ?pure thought?)? I mentioned in the list of verses that it is not just an act, it is not just a thought. It is a combination and without the sexual thought it is pointless and still a sexual act performed on oneself (going nigh to fornication simply because fornication leads to the same fulfilment as I have said time and again). Secondly I am not interested in your opinion on my intentions. If I labelled people fools then it was for misinterpreting and manipulating my words and (more importantly) my intentions. If people focus on that, I will call them fools (rightly). Simply because the majority on this forum does not agree with me, it does not mean the majority outside does not (thus social protests are irrelevant). I desire people to argue Qur?anically using Qur?anic principles, not from subjective opinion that in any case does not equal what I have presented (whether you want to accept that or not). That is why I am free to ?give advice?.
Now, if someone can masturbate without having impure thoughts, then why does he need to masturbate when the unnecessary act itself goes physically close to sex outside marriage? You know and I know people do not masturbate for no reason. To claim that one?s genitals need a massage is lame and to say that one needs to mentally relax or distress is simply another way of saying you want the pleasure of what sex provides. Why do I not just apply ?guarding? to one?s innate desires and hand-movements? You say ?maybe, maybe not? regarding the act itself being indecent, yet being a true God-fearing believer you prefer opt for a gamble rather than doing what any Muslim would obviously do (advise people against what you cannot disprove to be indecent!). That itself is enough to end this discussion and expose it. You are just afraid (at least in this instance) to have a viewpoint and to take the high road (if you intend to have a view at all). That is not my issue.
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
So then, masturbation with ?pure thoughts? does not have to be an indecency. It simply has to go near it (e.g. through finding loopholes in one?s ?faith?). If you cannot tell the difference between masturbation and indecency, the obvious principle is do not do it while you do not have to.
I was thinking ?24/7? referred to a verse and I was surprised for just one moment. Point out for me where I claimed we had to think about Him all of the time. You arrive at an odd conclusion that to remember Him we have to seclude ourselves. Remembering Him often means remembering Him through the Qur?an, and thus when we arrive at quiet moments of temptation we reflect on the ayat regarding patience, indecency, guarding and intention (among others). Moreover, we do not confine our own desire to disprove someone on Freeminds to the Qur?an, but we use our common sense and realise that since we cannot find any verses to refute, we decide what is safest and most advisable for Muslims. Islam is not a garden to be cherry-picked.
You misread me again and arrive at your own conception of what I am saying. I never said all cases of masturbation was bad. I said masturbation should not be done if you do not have to. If someone really needs to, they should ask forgiveness (see 2286). Can you think of any other specific examples? You are nitpicking without providing substance (my repeated complaint). So how many types of masturbation are there? When is each most appropriate? What Qur?anic principles are you applying? Thankyou.
The first sentence I addressed by assuming that we were talking about ordinary upright Muslims who perform their duties and act for the betterment of the community etc. I am asking you how is each activity in and of itself a waste of time? Praying too much is a waste of time too whilst it prevents you performing other duties! Saying that too much of these things is a waste of time is a redundant and obvious statement. I know that, everybody can see that. Too much prayer does not mean prayer is bad. Too much shopping does not mean that shopping is not necessary. I think you will understand this. You misunderstand what it actually means to remember Allah (SWT), so I suggest you reflect on these points.
The point was not about whether too much masturbation was a waste of time (since that is the only way your reply can be slightly relevant). It was about masturbation being a worse way of using one?s time and about it contradicting the principles of maintaining purity (e.g. 56) (embodied by the other ayat I have posted). Masturbation as a waste of time (devoid of other factors like thoughts and principles) was never actually my argument (since it would be a silly argument).
Your last statement is profound but in the same way that a vast ocean or desert is supposed to deliver a very specific point? My argument is that the ?tool? is for one?s spouse! We should only use it then or when we absolutely have to (and there is no cap on this ?need?).
Thank you,
Peace.Even with dirty thoughts its not an indecency, infact, it keeps you away from unlawful sexual intercourse. And don't compare masturbating pleasure with sex pleasure, i dunno myself but people say masturbating is nothing compared with real sex.
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@ San
Well I have answered this at least five times. ?Forbidden? thoughts also include those which go near those which go near fornication
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
Thus having eliminated masturbation with dirty thoughts as an option for you (you still pretend it is an option) even masturbating without thinking about anything is going near an indecency (because it falls under the category of sexual act). The Qur?an is literally telling you this. It is pretty much saying ?do not go there?. If you want to say that it does not at least go near indecency, then common sense will be against you and anyway it goes nearer to it than lots of other things you should do to distract yourself (e.g. praying, doing chores etc.). You implied you understood psychology (since you seem to throw around some qualified statements). Why exactly would you proceed to masturbate if you were not going to think sexual thoughts? I will ?zero in? on your reply and that should be that (contrary to ?expanding my own viewpoint on this matter? which I already did countless times).
Explain the difference between ?for sexual reasons? and ?for sexual pleasure? in this context. The clarification is actually your task. Indeed, sexual pleasure is a part of this life?s test and also a compliment of the ?creation in pairs?. Just as male to male is not condoned, it is how you enjoy it that counts. There is nothing in this discussion to support anything more than when we absolutely have to (beyond with the specified people).
Peace.
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Thus having eliminated masturbation with dirty thoughts as an option for you (you still pretend it is an option) even masturbating without thinking about anything is going near an indecency (because it falls under the category of sexual act). The Qur?an is literally telling you this. It is pretty much saying ?do not go there?. If you want to say that it does not at least go near indecency, then common sense will be against you and anyway it goes nearer to it than lots of other things you should do to distract yourself (e.g. praying, doing chores etc.)
Peace.Aw common now you can't be serious, is praying what you do ALL DAY and nothing else? ( how come you're using computer btw?) Cut the cra* you cant use that as an argument. Masturbating is NOT a sexual act, you're just missintepreting the Quran to win this argument, its just like saying
Do not marry your step mom
Oh damn i cant marry my neighbor ( that is not your stepmom) Its completely out of point, none of quranic verses refer to masturbating, because its not haram, even with dirty thoughts, deal with it.
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Even with dirty thoughts its not an indecency, infact, it keeps you away from unlawful sexual intercourse. And don't compare masturbating pleasure with sex pleasure, i dunno myself but people say masturbating is nothing compared with real sex.
... Thus according to your logic it is never an indecency (i.e. we can do it all the time). Please see my definition of "dirty thoughts" which you misread earlier.
Just indecent thoughts inspiring indecent desires.
?Surely Allah will make those who believe and do good enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; and those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as the beasts eat, and the fire is their abode.?
4712
Giving in to temptation is the way of disbelief. Thus one should guard one?s thoughts (22).
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
We should not even think about these things because impure thoughts (though concealed) lead to impure impulses. If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness. Just because our thoughts and associated actions are concealed, it does not mean we are not accountable for intentions
??and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.?
2284
?Say My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed??
733
See the notes for 6151.
?And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.?
1732
Thinking about fornication in conjunction with the act is inclining towards it. Enjoying the act is welcoming the lure of the same (fulfilment of) temptations which fornication offers.
Your second sentence is ... E.g. whether or not they are the same, one does one because they cannot do the other.
Please also note that my posts are based on tangible principles. No-one of course is obligated to put any thought into their posts yes
Peace.
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Aw common now you can't be serious, is praying what you do ALL DAY and nothing else? ( how come you're using computer btw?) Cut the cra* you cant use that as an argument. Masturbating is NOT a sexual act, you're just missintepreting the Quran to win this argument, its just like saying
Do not marry your step mom
Oh damn i cant marry my neighbor ( that is not your stepmom) Its completely out of point, none of quranic verses refer to masturbating, because its not haram, even with dirty thoughts, deal with it.
Pretty stupid. Bring your proof and then after you fail I will point out a number of things for you to do that were not explicitly prohibited.
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
Because masturbation was never mentioned (even with all the references to guarding and chastity) it would be logical to conclude that masturbation was not allowed.
It is OK, you cannot hurt the argument and that is fine. yes
Peace.
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Stop freaking quoting this
and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.
6151
This has nothing to do with masturbation, nor dirty thoughts
apparent - that others know
concealed - that do not knowGiving in to temptation is the way of disbelief. Thus one should guard ones thoughts (22).
MESMORIAL; Because masturbation was never mentioned (even with all the references to guarding and chastity) it would be logical to conclude that masturbation was not allowed.
Whatever isn't prohibited in Quran therefore its not prohibited, its either halal or middle way. And by masturbating you don't break the chastity or guard, thats stupid. Your whole comments are stupid.
You get tempted to do it for real, thats why you should not think about it, but logic a little, if you're sure you're not gonna do what you think if you have the chance to do that, there's nothing wrong.
and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.
2284
I have already explained this before in your first posts i think or was it niminak i dunno.
And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.
1732
Zina = adultery NOT fornication, thats a mistranslate, and you cant go near it by thinking, you go near it when you intend doing it, and you're close to do it, not thinking about doing it.Thinking about fornication in conjunction with the act is inclining towards it. Enjoying the act is welcoming the lure of the same (fulfilment of) temptations which fornication offers.
HHAHAHHAHAH, are you freaking serious?
Why do kafirs have sex? They can just masturbate instead.. cos its the same pleasure? lmfao... you probably haven't had sex or masturbated before otherwise you wouldn't say this.
And no masturbating is not indecency, and i don't care about your definition of dirty, for someone dirty can mean eating pancakes, i don't care the way you see it.
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Stop freaking quoting this
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
This has nothing to do with masturbation, nor dirty thoughts
apparent - that others know
concealed - that do not knowSo how do you know that is does not also mean apparent to/concealed from oneself? A real Muslim will still play it safe. So you say that thoughts of dirty things are not dirty thoughts? Explain. You make the mistake again of taking the thoughts and the act separately. For example maybe the ayah does not explicitly include thinking nor masturbation on their own, but when you let the thoughts lead you to masturbation then the thoughts manifest themselves and the manifestation becomes obviously the result of an intention to do it. They just go hand-in-hand (and if you do not NEED to then you will not makes excuses!) If you do it, you should ask forgiveness (though if you did not have to that may or may not help much).
Giving in to temptation is the way of disbelief. Thus one should guard one?s thoughts (22). It is really guarding against the punishment of Allah (SWT) by adhering to the Qur?an.
Whatever isn't prohibited in Quran therefore its not prohibited, its either halal or middle way. And by masturbating you don't break the chastity or guard, thats stupid. Your whole comments are stupid.
You get tempted to do it for real, thats why you should not think about it, but logic a little, if you're sure you're not gonna do what you think if you have the chance to do that, there's nothing wrong.
Why are people told to judge by the Qur?an if we do not need to apply principles? E.g. can we eat human meat because it is not prohibited in the relevant ayat? No, because we are to eat the good things. Likewise sexual acts are with the specified people. Can we perform oral sex with anyone because we assume chastity refers to nikah (by this logic masturbation of oneself is not much different) or because it is ?not? explicitly haram? If two unmarried people masturbate each other, that is indecent, and how if performing the same act on oneself not drawing nigh to that? You are accountable for your thoughts if you let them lead to action. You quote the ayah 2284 on its own, but it actually came as part of a larger explanation which addressed your response to it
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
We should not even think about these things because impure thoughts (though concealed) lead to impure impulses. If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness (2286). Just because our thoughts and associated actions are concealed, it does not mean we are not accountable for intentions
??and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.?
2284
(i.e. if you cannot explain away 6151 then you cannot explain away 2284).
Explain to me exactly why you would masturbate if you do not think sexual thoughts? Explain then why masturbation is better than salaat or fasting (or actively remembering Him some other way)?
Zina = adultery NOT fornication, thats a mistranslate, and you cant go near it by thinking, you go near it when you intend doing it, and you're close to do it, not thinking about doing it.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_%28Arabic%29
Well you go near indecencies which go near acts that go nigh to fornication. 733 prohibits them anyway
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=33
So is thinking about another person indecently not shameful or indecent for you? That violates 22, and even the willingness to think and act on these ideas means that you are deliberately disrespecting Allah (SWT). We are only human, but that is partly why we must remember Him standing, sitting and lying (3191). It gives us the greatest chance to develop ourselves, and ?harmless pleasure? is not an excuse because the devil makes foul deeds (and the thoughts that go with them) seem fair (e.g. 2212, 314, 848 and 1012).
A QUESTION YOU MUST NOW ANSWER
Is fornication halal or ?midway? for you? That is the only reason your statement would be relevant!
MesMorial Thinking about fornication in conjunction with the act is inclining towards it. Enjoying the act is welcoming the lure of the same (fulfilment of) temptations which fornication offers.
HHAHAHHAHAH, are you freaking serious?
Why do kafirs have sex? They can just masturbate instead.. cos its the same pleasure? lmfao... you probably haven't had sex or masturbated before otherwise you wouldn't say this.
It would not be credible for you to label anyone else kufr. Here is a quote from one of your threads, and since you come from a Muslim family it is surprising that you know the difference between sex and masturbation (at this young age!)
S.A, I'm 13
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602230.0
Are you sure you are fine? Please do not tell others to ?cut the ****?.
Anyway, notice I placed ?fulfilment of? in parentheses. This is because people have sex for climax whilst the rest is the enjoyment of foreplay made so by the sexual urge deriving from that area.
And no masturbating is not indecency, and i don't care about your definition of dirty, for someone dirty can mean eating pancakes, i don't care the way you see it.
[Nor do I care. My stance is still that it is inadvisable for the reasons provided (and even only being ?inadvisable?, a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)), and since you still persist in arrogance there is nothing that I can say to cause you to ponder. That is your choice.
Peace.
P.S. Some proof that thoughts and attitude matter
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
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"a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)"
I love it when people start talking about what the ''true Muslim", "the real Muslim'' would do. No, wait....no, I don't love that.
PS I guess many true Muslims just ''have'' to do it a lot.
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"a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)"
I love it when people start talking about what the ''true Muslim", "the real Muslim'' would do. No, wait....no, I don't love that.
PS I guess many true Muslims just ''have'' to do it a lot.
By defintion, "have to" means "have to". As for what the "true Muslim" would do, see 2256.
The Qur?an is the truth (e.g. 240-42, 291, 2119, 2147, 2176, 548, 16102).
Peace.
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The Qur?an is the truth
But you necessarily aren't. You do see that right? You do accept that you are not the quran come alive, right? Do you understand that concept?
Your pasting verses, even gleaning personal (yes, personal subjective) principles from verses does not change that fact. Your posts contain your own presuppositions, assumptions, commentary, and opinions, in addition to actual verses pasted. In spite of how many times you say you employ "tangible" principles, "logic," and make "obvious" connections, you can still never get around that fact. You are not nearly as objective as you think. No need to be offended; no one is wholly objective.
You are not the quran. Stop acting like you are. Got it?
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But you necessarily aren't. You do see that right? You do accept that you are not the quran come alive, right? Do you understand that concept?
Your pasting verses, even gleaning personal (yes, personal subjective) principles from verses does not change that fact. Your posts contain your own presuppositions, assumptions, commentary, and opinions, in addition to actual verses pasted. In spite of how many times you say you employ "tangible" principles, "logic," and make "obvious" connections, you can still never get around that fact. You are not nearly as objective as you think. No need to be offended; no one is wholly objective.
You are not the quran. Stop acting like you are. Got it?
I am the only one using the Qur?an to derive my arguments. It may be better to rephrase your emotional comment with more clarity (e.g. you might re-write it as ?Yes, the Qur?an is the truth and thus we should use that as our benchmark and argument rather than our inclinations or preferences on what is advisable?).
I have admitted even in my own postings that there is nothing definite, (though if you interpret some things certain ways then it will become haram ? and I can accept that). However the evidence in favour of me is clear.
If you are offended, then you do not have to use this forum. Or people can answer my requests for explanations! Just a small truth.
Peace.
P.S. Stop acting like victims. That wastes badnwidth and contributes nothing.
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I am the only one using the Qur?an to derive my arguments. It may be better to rephrase your emotional comment with more clarity (e.g. you might re-write it as ?Yes, the Qur?an is the truth and thus we should use that as our benchmark and argument rather than our inclinations or preferences on what is advisable?).
Nope. That's your opinion. Others use the quran in a way which you disagree with. You somehow equate that to them not using the quran at all.
I have admitted even in my own postings that there is nothing definite, (though if you interpret some things certain ways then it will become haram ? and I can accept that). However the evidence in favour of me is clear.
I don't care about your lip service. Don't try to retroactively soften your language.
If you are offended, then you do not have to use this forum. Or people can answer my requests for explanations! Just a small truth.
Peace.
P.S. Stop acting like victims. That wastes badnwidth and contributes nothing.
Not offended. Not a victim. You just need to be put into your place. And others need to see it.
You are not God's mouthpiece. You're a cocky young kid who thinks he has everything figured out, and has no trouble proclaiming that to everyone. Views counter to yours -- not the quran's, but yours -- will be posted. Deal with it.
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Nope. That's your opinion. Others use the quran in a way which you disagree with. You somehow equate that to them not using the quran at all.
I don't care about your lip service. Don't try to retroactively soften your language.
Not offended. Not a victim. You just need to be put into your place. And others need to see it.
You are not God's mouthpiece. You're a cocky young kid who thinks he has everything figured out, and has no trouble proclaiming that to everyone. Views counter to yours -- not the quran's, but yours -- will be posted. Deal with it.
Nope. That's your opinion. Others use the quran in a way which you disagree with. You somehow equate that to them not using the quran at all.
The Qur?an has been used sparingly by others. If they do, then I am entitled to bring verse to refute )
I don't care about your lip service. Don't try to retroactively soften your language.
I am not softening. I said what I said, and I also said it could be considered haram by certain interpretations at critical states. Do not misquote.
Not offended. Not a victim. You just need to be put into your place. And others need to see it.
You are not God's mouthpiece. You're a cocky young kid who thinks he has everything figured out, and has no trouble proclaiming that to everyone. Views counter to yours -- not the quran's, but yours -- will be posted. Deal with it.
A victim of your own idea of importance. If you ever want to put me in my place, let me know when I have been because I might miss it. It is OK. Some of us are better at some things than others, and if arguing is not your thing then that?s no matter.
You do understand I can see through emotional polemics of bruised egos? I should be angry or experiencing at least some feeling that tells me you are right (if you are right!). I forgot that you have no point.
Peace.
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The Qur?an has been used sparingly by others. If they do, then I am entitled to bring verse to refute
It has been used less by others precisely because it is the view of many that the quran has precious little to say on this particular subject. This very obvious fact seems to have gone over your rookie head.
I am not softening. I said what I said, and I also said it could be considered haram by certain interpretations at critical states. Do not misquote.
I didn't even quote you so it's not possible for me to misquote you. I don't need to be spoonfed an understanding of your posts by you. Any reasonably competent reader can see your words for what they are. The implications are clear.
A victim of your own idea of importance. If you ever want to put me in my place, let me know when I have been because I might miss it. It is OK. Some of us are better at some things than others, and if arguing is not your thing then that?s no matter.
You do understand I can see through emotional polemics of bruised egos? I should be angry or experiencing at least some feeling that tells me you are right (if you are right!). I forgot that you have no point.
Peace.
Empty, baseless armchair psychology. Hilariously stupid insults too. Amateur hour.
I'll now leave you to your masturbation. Mental, not physical of course.
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It has been used less by others precisely because it is the view of many that the quran has precious little to say on this particular subject. This very obvious fact seems to have gone over your rookie head.
I didn't even quote you so it's not possible for me to misquote you. I don't need to be spoonfed an understanding of your posts by you. Any reasonably competent reader can see your words for what they are. The implications are clear.
Empty, baseless armchair psychology. Hilariously stupid insults too. Amateur hour.
I'll now leave you to your masturbation. Mental, not physical of course.
It has been used less by others precisely because it is the view of many that the quran has precious little to say on this particular subject. This very obvious fact seems to have gone over your rookie head.
And I have responded to each of the scarce times that it has been used (as I said). The Qur?an has precious little to say on erotic fiction also.
I didn't even quote you so it's not possible for me to misquote you. I don't need to be spoonfed an understanding of your posts by you. Any reasonably competent reader can see your words for what they are. The implications are clear.
But impossible to express because as you admitted, your only purpose here is to ?put me in my place? (i.e. exercise your own spite). You accuse me of changing my words, so I accuse you of changing them. You overprice my words (whilst attempting to undervalue them), so ?quote? is quite appropriate.
Empty, baseless armchair psychology. Hilariously stupid insults too. Amateur hour.
I'll now leave you to your masturbation. Mental, not physical of course.
Indeed, yours were. That is why I passed over them.
Peace.
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And I have responded to each of the scarce times that it has been used (as I said). The Qur?an has precious little to say on erotic fiction also.
Erotic fiction even. Thorough 'research'.
But impossible to express because as you admitted, your only purpose here is to ?put me in my place? (i.e. exercise your own spite). You accuse me of changing my words, so I accuse you of changing them. You overprice my words (whilst attempting to undervalue them), so ?quote? is quite appropriate.
It's 'obvious' amirite. Way to go with the selective reading and deliberate out of context spin.
Let's play "A 'discussion' with Mesmorial"
X Stop with the tenuous connections, you can't make things say what they don't say.
Mesmorial Ah but you are a fool, it's 'obvious' you are utterly devoid of logic. I can make any connection I want. Give me a subject!
X Alright, goats.
Mesmorial 8031-32. Goats love carrots. God said so. They shouldn't eat grain. If you feed them grain, it will be a slippery slope towards goat doom, and ultimately all of us.
X Right.
Indeed, yours were. That is why I passed over them.
Let's play "how many times can we say ironic" in this thread. Not Byronic or whatever tenuous connection springs from that. Probably something to do with masturbation causing syphilis in some mythical world in Mesmorial's head. -
So how do you know that is does not also mean apparent to/concealed from oneself? A real Muslim will still play it safe. So you say that thoughts of dirty things are not dirty thoughts? Explain. You make the mistake again of taking the thoughts and the act separately. For example maybe the ayah does not explicitly include thinking nor masturbation on their own, but when you let the thoughts lead you to masturbation then the thoughts manifest themselves and the manifestation becomes obviously the result of an intention to do it. They just go hand-in-hand (and if you do not NEED to then you will not makes excuses!) If you do it, you should ask forgiveness (though if you did not have to that may or may not help much).
. It is really guarding against the punishment of Allah (SWT) by adhering to the Qur?an.
Why are people told to judge by the Qur?an if we do not need to apply principles? E.g. can we eat human meat because it is not prohibited in the relevant ayat? No, because we are to eat the good things. Likewise sexual acts are with the specified people. Can we perform oral sex with anyone because we assume chastity refers to nikah (by this logic masturbation of oneself is not much different) or because it is ?not? explicitly haram? If two unmarried people masturbate each other, that is indecent, and how if performing the same act on oneself not drawing nigh to that? You are accountable for your thoughts if you let them lead to action. You quote the ayah 2284 on its own, but it actually came as part of a larger explanation which addressed your response to it
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
We should not even think about these things because impure thoughts (though concealed) lead to impure impulses. If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness (2286). Just because our thoughts and associated actions are concealed, it does not mean we are not accountable for intentions
??and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.?
2284
(i.e. if you cannot explain away 6151 then you cannot explain away 2284).
Explain to me exactly why you would masturbate if you do not think sexual thoughts? Explain then why masturbation is better than salaat or fasting (or actively remembering Him some other way)?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_%28Arabic%29
Well you go near indecencies which go near acts that go nigh to fornication. 733 prohibits them anyway
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=33
So is thinking about another person indecently not shameful or indecent for you? That violates 22, and even the willingness to think and act on these ideas means that you are deliberately disrespecting Allah (SWT). We are only human, but that is partly why we must remember Him standing, sitting and lying (3191). It gives us the greatest chance to develop ourselves, and ?harmless pleasure? is not an excuse because the devil makes foul deeds (and the thoughts that go with them) seem fair (e.g. 2212, 314, 848 and 1012).
A QUESTION YOU MUST NOW ANSWER
Is fornication halal or ?midway? for you? That is the only reason your statement would be relevant!
It would not be credible for you to label anyone else kufr. Here is a quote from one of your threads, and since you come from a Muslim family it is surprising that you know the difference between sex and masturbation (at this young age!)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602230.0
Are you sure you are fine? Please do not tell others to ?cut the ****?.
Anyway, notice I placed ?fulfilment of? in parentheses. This is because people have sex for climax whilst the rest is the enjoyment of foreplay made so by the sexual urge deriving from that area.
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Nor do I care. My stance is still that it is inadvisable for the reasons provided (and even only being ?inadvisable?, a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)), and since you still persist in arrogance there is nothing that I can say to cause you to ponder. That is your choice.
Peace.
P.S. Some proof that thoughts and attitude matter
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
You're quoting Quran for totally something else and saying its for masturbation, like whoever opened this topic asked
Can deers drink wine?
Your answer
No, deers cant drink wine. It says here( on this imaginated verse) Snakes shouldn't drink wine.
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
You don't unguard your private part by masturbating.
Prove masturbation is an indecency?
Now you're saying we can do salat and fast so we can remember Allah, but when did Allah told us to remember him ALWAYS? I remember him enough.
And wow, you're so sad, undermining me just because of my age, are you wanting so much to win this argument?
You keep quoting and quoting the same verses, I've already explained those before.
"O ye who believe! Forbid not (to yourselves) the good things which Allah has made lawful for you; and do not transgress the limits. Verily, Allah loves not the transgressors?
And as for fornication , it is never mentioned in Quran, Zina means ADULTERY, not fornication.
