Masturbation
-
Notice that I have never declared anything as haram, but rather looked at things as inadvisable or in terms of what direction (towards or away from Allah (SWT)) they face.
Something good can go bad with time and vice versa unless it's pretty much black and white. You can't really make a blanket statement on grey areas saying oh yes this is definitely taking away from doing good in one's life. That's a really extreme pov and serves to solidify narrow mindedness when in actuality there should be plenty of tolerance in these places because of the huge diversity present in people, they way they think, their situations and how they can unfold etc. There's a far bigger picture at stake here than slippery slope if you touch yourself, there's no way but down, don't do it or else. Humans tend to do this, make things way more difficult for themselves than it has to be. Give too much importance to things that ultimately don't matter and can even be constructive in ways. Doesn't particularly need to be this topic, so many other things we have opinions about and tout around as facts. And of course at the same time, many don't even see that they are doing the same thing in other areas, we all have blind spots. Just some thoughts, take it as you will.
-
If you masturbate with intent to think about what masturbating makes you think about, then obviously you have no intent to actually do it but rather to enjoy the act in another fashion (i.e. turning the act of masturbation into a lewd act by thinking thoughts that are lewd and not to mention disrespectful to the woman if she is a believer (if she is not, will you call that good?)). How can you intend on doing the things you thought while masturbating if masturbating stems the urge (unless you go to do it but accidentally masturbate during the journey)?
Peace.
Think about someone that doesn't exist or a fictional character... or no you gonna hurt their feelings &
-
Kaiokenred peace
I remebered something. Technically you are advised to not come near lewdness. Thinking or watching sexual content (including CGI) is possibly coming near lewdness. You are meant to restrain your glance 2431 (or 30) and if you are thinking or watching sexual content that does not consist of your zawj or your MMA (ma malekat aymunkum) then I THINK you are coming near lewdness.
What do you say that! P
First, what the hell can lewdness do to you when you're alone?
Second, You restrain your glance from REAL people
Third, After orgasm even if you get 100 hottest girls in front of you naked you will ignore them.Stop trying to make everything hardcore, not you but even some others here, if its not explicitly prohibited, ITS NOT HARAM ( doesnt mean it is halal but not haram) Look at 732 and logic a little
-
The meaning of 'haram' is open to debate.
But, essentially, it pertains to that which is not for the 'the plaza square'.
People who want to control what one does behind the tent flap, be it no harm to the world around them,
are simply misled and/or up to tricks. -
sure makes it hard to focus when i'm excited by the sight of any relatively good looking women through the day
better get that job with the hand done instead of looking at every arse i come across
there are problems worse than masturbating with the thoughts of naked women or fantasm
such as falling into fetishes that are really bad
and that because of internetThat is something a person has to fight
another problem is obssession with porn
you're alone in front of your computer, in your room
with a few clicks, you get to see some incredible looking women, blond brunes red head anything
and it's easy to fall into that comfy trapi am more worried by all the resources wasted on porn production
-
Something good can go bad with time and vice versa unless it's pretty much black and white. You can't really make a blanket statement on grey areas saying oh yes this is definitely taking away from doing good in one's life. That's a really extreme pov and serves to solidify narrow mindedness when in actuality there should be plenty of tolerance in these places because of the huge diversity present in people, they way they think, their situations and how they can unfold etc. There's a far bigger picture at stake here than slippery slope if you touch yourself, there's no way but down, don't do it or else. Humans tend to do this, make things way more difficult for themselves than it has to be. Give too much importance to things that ultimately don't matter and can even be constructive in ways. Doesn't particularly need to be this topic, so many other things we have opinions about and tout around as facts. And of course at the same time, many don't even see that they are doing the same thing in other areas, we all have blind spots. Just some thoughts, take it as you will.
So then you will bring the verses.
Peace.
-
First, what the hell can lewdness do to you when you're alone?
Second, You restrain your glance from REAL people
Third, After orgasm even if you get 100 hottest girls in front of you naked you will ignore them.Stop trying to make everything hardcore, not you but even some others here, if its not explicitly prohibited, ITS NOT HARAM ( doesnt mean it is halal but not haram) Look at 732 and logic a little
Your first point only shows that you don't know or believe the Qur'an. Read 733 and use logic (and stop misquoting 732 whilst ignoring the next ayah).
Your second point (like your post before that) is as valid as saying it is fine to kick the Qur'an around in secret because it is not hurting anyone's feelings. By attempting to justify masturbation for enjoyment (you seem to be resurging again with that intent) that is all you are doing. Why not write a poem glorifying the eating of pork from a pig that doesn't exist (because you did not know him/her personally). Does the Qur'an say you had to know women specifically to respect them as a whole? Better yet, why not play pornographic computer games because the "people" are not actually real? So what is the difference? Can you explain the difference between that and voluntary (unnecessary) masturbation?
Your third point is tired and misses the fact that after you have sex with a hot girl you will also ignore another hundred. What is your point?
Peace.
-
4153
You won't get the quran much unless you aren't experienced with life or common sense. It's an awesome book.
-
You're right, it won't if you can't see it.
Peace.
-
You're right, it won't if you can't see it.
Peace.
You will explain exactly in what way your comment addresses what it responded to and justify. We will then see how common-sense it is for you.
E.g. why did you highlight my statement if you agree with it? If you do, that is fine (citing a relevant ayah would have helped me to understand what your original point was). If you do not agree with it, you will either have misread me or said something odd for the sake of your own words. Or perhaps you think that the Qur'an has been altered over time (that is fine but you will support).
...
Peace.
-
You will explain exactly in what way your comment addresses what it responded to and justify. We will then see how common-sense it is for you.
E.g. why did you highlight my statement if you agree with it? If you do, that is fine (citing a relevant ayah would have helped me to understand what your original point was). If you do not agree with it, you will either have misread me or said something odd for the sake of your own words. Or perhaps you think that the Qur'an has been altered over time (that is fine but you will support).
...
Peace.
What are you going on about?
The verse is relevant. The reality is this you and others of your ilk treat the quran as some academic pursuit, not seeing the forest for the trees. You focus on minutiae, ignoring the realities of the world around you, in a pathetic attempt to maintain some trumped up sense of righteousness. The verse highlights the fact that the qur'an is a book with real world applications, its truths being seen within ourselves and our environment. It's relevant because your head was in the sky; you have your mind made up and are trying to twist any verses to fit in with your views.
The quran is a map, not the landscape itself. You still have to go out there and navigate your way around life. Moronic statements like "So then you will bring the verses" completely miss the point. There isn't a quranic dictate on every single topic. I know you want there to be because you have trouble thinking for yourself but again, you are just forcing things onto the text that are simply not there. You want everything to be legislated, when it's so obvious that isn't the case. At best, this leads to false judgment; at worst, intolerance and extremism.
-
Let's try it with a real world application.
When I reached puberty, I discovered masturbation upon my own accord. My family was a "holiday Christian" family whose Bible had several years' worth of dust on it. Was it sinful to discover masturbation? Was it sinful to keep doing it on my own time in my own privacy where I wasn't hurting anyone nor causing any detriment to my academics, family or social lives? Was it sinful to continue doing it to avoid adultery when I became the interest of girls?
Was it sinful to allow my sexual fantasies run rampant in the safety of my own mind where they would never be allowed to escape?
Is it a crime to have fantasies? Is there a weighted sin to fantasize about twin sisters yet no weighted sin attached to the fantasy that my microtia would magically cure itself?
Is it a crime to alleviate said fantasies in a safe, controlled environment as opposed to, say, raping a girl?
Given that masturbation is beneficial to prostate health, stress relief and allows you to know what does and does not arouse you (in order to inform your wife down the road), is it a sin to gain information and use said information to a beneficial effect when you encounter the methodology naturally?
-
What are you going on about?
The verse is relevant. The reality is this you and others of your ilk treat the quran as some academic pursuit, not seeing the forest for the trees. You focus on minutiae, ignoring the realities of the world around you, in a pathetic attempt to maintain some trumped up sense of righteousness. The verse highlights the fact that the qur'an is a book with real world applications, its truths being seen within ourselves and our environment. It's relevant because your head was in the sky; you have your mind made up and are trying to twist any verses to fit in with your views.
The quran is a map, not the landscape itself. You still have to go out there and navigate your way around life. Moronic statements like "So then you will bring the verses" completely miss the point. There isn't a quranic dictate on every single topic. I know you want there to be because you have trouble thinking for yourself but again, you are just forcing things onto the text that are simply not there. You want everything to be legislated, when it's so obvious that isn't the case. At best, this leads to false judgment; at worst, intolerance and extremism.
I am sorry you do not seem to understand that according to the Qur?an, humans were made to worship God and this life is a test. How you perceive the test is itself the landscape, but the test is the test. I think you are pretty shallow whilst pretending to be deep, but a deep ocean is also an empty ocean as demonstrated (once again) by wishy-washy righteousness without substance which is really the inability to stomach Islam as a religion. You seem to think that studying the Qur?an is a sin, but that is easy to understand if we realise that you and your ilk actually look at the Qur?an as a philosophy without actually believing it (yet you call yourself Muslim and have a problem with people who act like Muslims). That is fine, but then only according to your own religion are you correct. Indeed the Qur?an is a book of truths! So what does the Qur?an actually mandate? The landscape is our own thoughts (e.g. the Qur?an does not define every word like ?compassion? for us!), but the Qur?an is plain unless you want to argue otherwise.
You are also dumb in that you seem to miss the absence of my ?declaring? anything haram. I said that masturbation is quite evidently (from the Qur?an) not in ANY way beneficial for being a Muslim (i.e. serving Allah (SWT)) and thus to say ?it is permissible because it is not specifically mentioned? is itself a shallow statement showing why ?Qur?an-alone? never progresses.
Therefore, you will bring the verses.
?
Peace.
-
Let's try it with a real world application.
When I reached puberty, I discovered masturbation upon my own accord. My family was a "holiday Christian" family whose Bible had several years' worth of dust on it. Was it sinful to discover masturbation? Was it sinful to keep doing it on my own time in my own privacy where I wasn't hurting anyone nor causing any detriment to my academics, family or social lives? Was it sinful to continue doing it to avoid adultery when I became the interest of girls?
Was it sinful to allow my sexual fantasies run rampant in the safety of my own mind where they would never be allowed to escape?
Is it a crime to have fantasies? Is there a weighted sin to fantasize about twin sisters yet no weighted sin attached to the fantasy that my microtia would magically cure itself?
Is it a crime to alleviate said fantasies in a safe, controlled environment as opposed to, say, raping a girl?
Given that masturbation is beneficial to prostate health, stress relief and allows you to know what does and does not arouse you (in order to inform your wife down the road), is it a sin to gain information and use said information to a beneficial effect when you encounter the methodology naturally?
The short answer is to read the Qur'an. Children are born without knowledge of responsibility (in all forms), so this is no different. Discover, adapt, grow.If you say you are on a path, then follow it.
Peace.
-
The short answer is to read the Qur'an. Children are born without knowledge of responsibility (in all forms), so this is no different. Discover, adapt, grow.If you say you are on a path, then follow it.
Peace.
Peace,
So where does it say that exploring my sexuality is forbidden?
-
I am sorry you do not seem to understand that according to the Qur?an, humans were made to worship God and this life is a test. How you perceive the test is itself the landscape, but the test is the test. I think you are pretty shallow whilst pretending to be deep, but a deep ocean is also an empty ocean as demonstrated (once again) by wishy-washy righteousness without substance which is really the inability to stomach Islam as a religion. You seem to think that studying the Qur?an is a sin, but that is easy to understand if we realise that you and your ilk actually look at the Qur?an as a philosophy without actually believing it (yet you call yourself Muslim and have a problem with people who act like Muslims). That is fine, but then only according to your own religion are you correct. Indeed the Qur?an is a book of truths! So what does the Qur?an actually mandate? The landscape is our own thoughts (e.g. the Qur?an does not define every word like ?compassion? for us!), but the Qur?an is plain unless you want to argue otherwise.
You are also dumb in that you seem to miss the absence of my ?declaring? anything haram. I said that masturbation is quite evidently (from the Qur?an) not in ANY way beneficial for being a Muslim (i.e. serving Allah (SWT)) and thus to say ?it is permissible because it is not specifically mentioned? is itself a shallow statement showing why ?Qur?an-alone? never progresses.
Therefore, you will bring the verses.
?
Peace.
You gathered all that about me simply cause I said you are attempting to legislate all morality? Hilarious. I shouldn't be surprised though; that's your MO. You take your preconceived views and dress them up however you see fit in quranic garb, and castigate anyone who disagrees with you. You are of the worst types of people on this planet self-righteous extremists who equate their own arbitrary whims with divine dictates.
I didn't miss your lack of "declaring" it as haram. I just read between the lines. You merely pay lip service. If you sit there and say something is not necessarily haram but then go on and on about how bad -- or sorry, "inadvisable" -- something is, well...the writing's on the wall.
Your very first post in this thread was pasting the following verse
"Say My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed..."
I know you won't recognize this because, again, you think any of your preconceived views are by default endorsed by the quran, but implicit in your posting that verse is the assumption that masturbation is automatically "indecent." You take that as an automatic given and proceed to build paper castles around that view, in the process looking down upon anyone who dares disagree with you.
You then say things like "When you do so, you should do it for the sole purpose of release and not for enjoyment." Please, why don't you "bring the verses" on that? These are all your own views. My guess is you will again twist 4712 to answer this question, outlawing anything you deem to be 'enjoyment.'
Stop looking for loaded buzzwords in the text and attaching your own views to them. It is offensive and malicious. You think you are "drawing obvious conclusions from obvious principles" but I assure you, you are not. The diversity in views should tip you off to that fact. You are imposing your own personal values. What you are doing is far, far, FAR worse than...gasp, masturbating ever could be.
-
The diversity of views arises from the fact that some views are better researched than others? The sad fact is that you cannot argue with the principles which arise from the verses I have listed. Anyone can accuse me of what you accuse me of without reading and re-reading what I said, but I cannot respond to every offended person who is begging me not to apply too much logic.I read this and wondered why you would bother to reply without any substance whatsoever. I have asked for an explanation of 4153 but the simple truth is no-one can relate it to the topic in question.
I deduced everything about you because it was obvious, and you haven?t denied. If you are not fake then you will ?bring the verses? and say something worth reading.
Masturbation for enjoyment is inadvisable (unless perhaps you think appropriately of your spouse) because firstly that is lewd (the Qur?an forbids that!), secondly it is animalistic (an attribute of unbelief (4712)) and thirdly (but not lastly) it is in no way beneficial for being a Muslim (serving Allah (SWT)). It is like eating ? we should be moderate (eating of the good things), and guarding (e.g. thoughts, intentions). If you set no standard, you will slip. It is best to set the best standard, and that is all I say. The Qur?an does not define compassion because we already know it. It does not define ?lewdness? because we know what is indecent (if unsure, examine the principles of the Qur?an).
It is up to you to prove something to your own desire and stop complaining since all your huff and puff will never blow the house down. Your comments are as usual wishy-washy, and that means that you have a wishy-washy understanding of what you ?follow?. If you have a problem with someone who has a view, it is best to actually argue.
...
Peace.