:: 'atiAllaha wa 'atialRasoola :: Wrong quotes ::
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Peace with you all, sun
AL = available, now
doesn't it focus on Mohammed a.s, because he was available at that time?
We can't obey massenger now because he isn't here now but the people in that time had to.
On my point of view, the verses with AlRasoul are about Mohammed a.s. Or they are maybe about Gibril and Mohammed should obey Gibril. God Mercifully knows better. -
Peace with you all, sun
AL = available, now
doesn't it focus on Mohammed a.s, because he was available at that time?
We can't obey massenger now because he isn't here now but the people in that time had to.
On my point of view, the verses with AlRasoul are about Mohammed a.s. Or they are maybe about Gibril and Mohammed should obey Gibril. God Mercifully knows better.?AL? in Arabic language works exactly the same as ?THE? in English language. They both are DEFINITE ARTICLES. ?THE? comes before a previously specified noun as opposed to ?A? or ?AN? which generalize the noun coming after them, e.g. ?THE man? and ?A man/AN orange?.
?AL?, works just the same in Arabic language, e.g. ?ALkitaabu?, which means ?THE book?, vs. ?kitaabun?, which means ?A book?.
So, ?AL? and ?THE? are interchangeable in comprehension of the meaning.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace with you all, sun
AL = available, now
doesn't it focus on Mohammed a.s, because he was available at that time?
We can't obey massenger now because he isn't here now but the people in that time had to.
On my point of view, the verses with AlRasoul are about Mohammed a.s. Or they are maybe about Gibril and Mohammed should obey Gibril. God Mercifully knows better.Peace Birdy,
Red If there was any Muhammad, then alQuraan was given to him AT THAT TIME, but NOW, it is given to us, so there is no Muhammad. Unfortunately, when we look an aayat we add Muhammad by default in that aayat, why? When Allah wanted to say Ibrahim, Musa, Isa, Yousuf, Younus, Dawood, Sulaiman..... He said it clearly, but there is no address of Muhammad like
- Yaa Muhammad
- Muhammad, telll your people
- Muhammad said to ...
- Muhammad was given ...
- Obey Allah and Muhammad
You will never see such statements in alQuraan. It is very simple to understand aayaat of alQuraan in straight way as what is said in it, without adding Muhammad or anyone else. Allah talks to the reader of alQuraan, and we divert it to Muhammad, there we are finding it hard to understand aayaat of alQuraan.
Blue Why do you think Allah kept those aayaat in alQuraan now when He knows that messenger is not available now? And if it was referring to people at that time, then why it was not omitted from alQuraan for us? Surely, it is not to confuse us, right?
Green Allah never said, Muhammad is alRasool, in fact it is illogical to say in alQuraan as it has to remain for ever nor it says that alRasool is Jibrael. Without having any evidence from alQuraan, we will be saying lie on Allah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
?AL? in Arabic language works exactly the same as ?THE? in English language. They both are DEFINITE ARTICLES. ?THE? comes before a previously specified noun as opposed to ?A? or ?AN? which generalize the noun coming after them, e.g. ?THE man? and ?A man/AN orange?.
?AL?, works just the same in Arabic language, e.g. ?ALkitaabu?, which means ?THE book?, vs. ?kitaabun?, which means ?A book?.
So, ?AL? and ?THE? are interchangeable in comprehension of the meaning.
Peace,
KhalilPeace Khalil,
You have given an understanding of "AL" purely from so called Arabic grammar and unfortunately it has nothing to do with alQuraan. Please take a look at opening post.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
You have given an understanding of "AL" purely from so called Arabic grammar and unfortunately it has nothing to do with alQuraan. Please take a look at opening post...
The highlights above are from me.
The Qur?aan is in Arabic language; therefore it MUST follow all its grammatical rules. See 4612 below.
And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy And this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic language; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.
Also see 122, 1337, 20113, 3928, 413, 427, and 433, confirming that Arabic is the language of The Qur?aan.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace with you mmkahn,
thank you for your detailed response. sun
I agree your statment ...
"Allah talks to the reader of alQuraan, and we divert it to Muhammad, there we are finding it hard to understand aayaat of alQuraan."
.. because I feel like that, but to understand Quran it needs also brain work not only subjective feelings.If there aren't any ayas where Mohammed is mentioned as AlRasoul und you have understood them to the best of your belief, then your other statments here may be correct. I don't have knowledge in Arabic langugage so each of my comments on translation aren't valid. My native is German, so I read Quran in German and use sometimes diferent German translators. I have started to learn Arabic little bit and hope to get further with it.
May God Mercifully guide us to the stright path.
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The highlights above are from me.
The Qur?aan is in Arabic language; therefore it MUST follow all its grammatical rules. See 4612 below.
And before this, was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy And this Book confirms (it) in the Arabic language; to admonish the unjust, and as Glad Tidings to those who do right.
Also see 122, 1337, 20113, 3928, 413, 427, and 433, confirming that Arabic is the language of The Qur?aan.
Peace,
KhalilPeace Khalil,
Thanks for quoting aayaat. I agree with you fully on this, but I am not talking about that... I said "SO CALLED Arabic grammar". I believe that alQuraan has its own standards and it is stand alone book, we don't need any other book to understand it. Many of it's words are explained in itself in such a way that no grammar book or dictionary explains it. For an example, please take a look at this.
So, whatever the so called Arabic grammar is available is not helpful to understand alQuraan to its true meaning.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace with you mmkahn,
thank you for your detailed response. sun
I agree your statment ...
"Allah talks to the reader of alQuraan, and we divert it to Muhammad, there we are finding it hard to understand aayaat of alQuraan."
.. because I feel like that, but to understand Quran it needs also brain work not only subjective feelings.If there aren't any ayas where Mohammed is mentioned as AlRasoul und you have understood them to the best of your belief, then your other statments here may be correct. I don't have knowledge in Arabic langugage so each of my comments on translation aren't valid. My native is German, so I read Quran in German and use sometimes diferent German translators. I have started to learn Arabic little bit and hope to get further with it.
May God Mercifully guide us to the stright path.
Peace be with you too Birdy,
Thanks for your kind words.. I suggest you to learn how to read alQuraan, that is enough inshaAllah to get guidance )
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Assalamu alaykum,
I just want to point out ayat 2275 Allah chooses from the angels messengers and from the people. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Seeing.
Peace.Wa Alaikum Salaam mmmm,
Thank you for quoting the aayat, but I did not understand what you exactly wanted to say. hmm
Peace be upon you,
mmKhan -
Since I do not know Arabic, my take on the "obey the Messenger" issue
Although this point has been dealt with by many people lot more knowledgeable than myself on this forum , a couple of issues emerge
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If we keep in our mind the fact that these verses were revealed 1400 years ago to a group of people who had their doubts about Islam or were not sure how to respond to blessed Messenger's role and call. They were being told in clear terms what the role of the Messenger was and as Allah's sole representative and that he had to be obeyed as head of the community. They were asked to listen to him as someone who was conveying Allah's Message to them and not to turn away. He may also be giving them other instructions, about their every day lives in view of Allah's Word, specific to those times. So where ever we read verses about obeying the Messenger as a representative of Allah means it was a question of authority and discipline. We find in history that there were certain opinions the Messenger gave on matters based on his personal opinion that were not related to Allah's Word and people had a right to accept or excuse themselves . As far as we are concerned, we must follow what Allah through His Messenger left behind and promised to guard it The Qur'an alone.
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If the blessed Messenger's sayings and deeds were of the utmost importance (as claimed by Hadith followers) then the question would arise that why were no instructions came down to compile and collect them in a separate Book for all times to come? It was well known what happened to stories based on hearsay over time They get corrupted and mixed up with falsehood. The Messenger himself knew well what happened to the Christians who ended up turning man to God and God to man, based on hearsay stories which got written down much later after Jesus (AS)! He could have given instructions to compile a book, verified it and approved it for Muslims of future generations. The first four Caliphs would have done it. Why did they not?
What we have here are collections by Sunnis and Shias often at odds with each other and containing material that clashes with the Qur'an. How can then, deen be based on conjecture and controversial material collected 220 years after the Messenger passed on, based on hearsay?
Although we can never say for sure if a report of saying/deed is 100% truth, we can allow the possibility of such material being true if only matches the Qur'an. Also we may read it as students of history to get an idea of the times of those who were gathering this material and a glimpse of early Islamic history. Knowingly and unknowingly we have adopted many practices handed down to us over generations and no harm in following them if they don't clash with the Qur'an.
Now, I have heard from many hadith believers that if the Qur'an was passed on to us with the same accuracy by people over generations, why can't it apply to ahadith? Well, the answer to that is that the Qur'an has an assurance of preservation from Allah. How He does it is His business. No such promise was given to ahadith and the Messengers sunnah. Here cornered, the hadith believers don't give up. They counter Hadith is part of Zikr and part of Hikmah so it is preserved as well by Allah!! Some of them even suggest that this being the case, Hadith abrogates the Qur'an!
Try all you can. You can't win can you? But, as the Qur'an says we must state the truth and guidance is up to Him Alone.
I just want to caution that as a student I could be wrong and welcome any other opinion. Some say that when Allah says in the Qur'an Allah and Rasool together, it means an Islamic Government (to which 1400 years ago disputes were to be referred). So, what happens when the Rasool passes on, you may ask. The Quran deals with this by asking if the Rasool were to pass on, would you turn on your heels?
When the Rasool passed on the Islamic government was run by a successor of the Rasool (Khalifa) to which matters were to be referred to.
Now, what to do when there is no unified Islamic government ruling entire Ummah?? All I can say is to explore this question further and sit down with consultation and come up with some solutions!! In the meantime, The Book (Qur'an) is there for us to run our affairs with mutual consultations. No harm in following traditions handed down from centuries as long as they don't clash with the Qur'an
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