Theory of Evolution anyone ?
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Impossible to leave minerals and gases "rubbing" for billions of years and all of a sudden they "awaken" start talking back at you. What happens over time is devolution where parts of the genetic code get damaged as in the case of cancer and other parts of the code adapts or get amplified (e.g. body building or adapting to climate change) while other parts remain dormant.
Don't forget aging
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Reply to post given here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602635.msg281863#msg281863
Highlight above is from me.
I mean they are different in ESSENCE, made of two different substances, as we read in verse 712 below.
He said What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.
Peace,
KhalilIblis isn't a Jinn. Iblis is of (mina) the Jinn; arrogant, proud, disobedient, and among the first creation made before Nasi. Allah even expounds upon their creation
"I made them not witnesses of the creation of the heavens and earth, neither of the creation of themselves; I would not ever take those who lead others astray to be My supporters." Surah 1851
"And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he was (kana) of (mina) the jinn (aljinni), he rebelled (fafasaqa) against (AAan) his Lord's command (amri rabbih). What, and do you take him and his offspring to be your friends, apart from Me, and they an enemy to you? How evil is that exchange for the evildoers!" Surah 1850
Iblis is an angel - malikatan. No where does Allah command any but the malikatan to bow before Adam (pbuh).
"And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused, and waxed proud, and so he was (wakana) of (mina) the unbelievers." Surah 234
"We created you, then We shaped you, then We said to the angels 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis -- he was not of those that bowed themselves." Surah 711
"save Iblis; he refused to be among those bowing." Surah 1531
"And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he refused." Surah 20116
As the Jinn were disobedient human beings prior to the creation of Nasi, they are the offspring of Iblis Among the first created, rebelling against the command of Allah, and leading others astray.
So while you try to make Iblis into a Jinn, Iblis is actually a malikatan - a controlling force commanded to be made subject to man, but Iblis refused.
The angels are the controlling forces of this world created by Allah; the forces of nature made subject to man through the knowledge given to us by Allah Science.
Subjected (sakhara) Surah 1614, 2265, 6715
? It is He who made the earth subjected to you; therefore walk in its tracts, and eat of His provision; to Him is the Uprising.? Surah 6715?It is He who subjected to you the sea, that you may eat of it fresh flesh, and bring forth out of it ornaments for you to wear; and thou mayest see the ships cleaving through it; and that you may seek of His bounty, and so haply you will be thankful.? Surah 1614
?Hast thou not seen how that God has subjected to you all that is in the earth and the ships to run upon the sea at His commandment, and He holds back heaven lest it should fall upon the earth, save by His leave? Surely God is All-gentle to men, All-compassionate.? Surah 2265
So if angels control the forces of nature, what part of nature does Iblis control?
Human nature. Iblis controls our free will. Such is the nature of humans To disobey our Creator and follow our own carnal/earthly desires by listening to that voice in their heart that tells them to disobey.
Our soul (alnnafsa) whisper to us Surah 1253, 5016, 530, 1145
"Then his soul prompted him to slay his brother, and he slew him, and became one of the losers." Surah 530
"Yet I claim not that my soul was innocent -- surely the soul incites to evil -- except inasmuch as my Lord had mercy; truly my Lord is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.'" Surah 1253
"We indeed created humans (al-insana); and We know what his soul whispers within him, and We are nearer to him than the jugular vein." Surah 5016
"who whispers in the breasts of Nasi" Surah 1145
Our brain - a hemisphere on the right and a hemisphere on the left - records every thought, every deed Surah 5016-18
Angels, and that includes Iblis, are not humans.
Jinn are not angels, as the angels do not disobey Allah."The Messiah will not disdain to be a servant of God, neither the angels who are near stationed to Him. Whosoever disdains to serve Him, and waxes proud, He will assuredly muster them to Him, all of them." Surah 4172
"the thunder proclaims His praise, and the angels, in awe of Him. He looses the thunderbolts, and smites with them whomsoever He will; yet they dispute about God, who is mighty in power." Surah 1313
"We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to carry it and were afraid of it; and mankind carried it. Surely he is sinful, very foolish." Surah 3372
"Believers, guard yourselves and your families against a Fire whose fuel is men and stones, and over which are harsh, terrible angels who disobey not God in what He commands them and do what they are commanded." Surah 666
"Upon the day when the Spirit and the angels stand in ranks they shall speak not, save him to whom the All-merciful has given leave, and who speaks aright." Surah 7838
No where in the Quran is any other angel disobedient but Iblis.
Iblis was created to rebel
"He said, "Now, for that Thou hast misled me (aghwaytanee), surely in thy straight path will I lay wait for them" Surah 716
"Said he, 'My Lord, for Thy perverting me I shall deck all fair to them in the earth, and I shall pervert them, all together," Surah 1539
Allah is in control of everything. Allah told the angels He knew something they did not. If He chooses to lead anyone astray, no one can guide them.
"What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err (adalla)? And whomsoever Allah causes to err (yudlili), you shall by no means find a way for him." Surah 488
Jinn are not angels.
You are more than welcome to believe Jinn are spiritual creatures that do evil around the world.
But I cannot as the Quran does not teach it.Peace.
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...So while you try to make Iblis into a Jinn, Iblis is actually a malikatan - a controlling force commanded to be made subject to man, but Iblis refused...
Peace.Highlight is from me.
According to The Qur?aan both the JINNS & IBLIS, are of the same ESSENCE in CREATION, i.e. both are made of FIRE. In that case, and as The Qur?aan says in verse 1850, he is from among the JINNS.
I did NOT try to make Iblis into a Jinn. As the above verse informs us, Iblis is from the Jinn.
Peace,
Khalil -
Salam Raggin-Taggin and Knightworth(actually kdwithnob, but my brain reads it that way,cant help it),
I cant help but ask, what has this gotta do with Theory of Evolution ?
Peace be on you
------------------------ Student of Allah
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Raginggaijin
"And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind." (1527)
"And He created Jinns from fire free of smoke" (5515)
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Salam Raggin-Taggin and Knightworth(actually kdwithnob, but my brain reads it that way,cant help it),
I cant help but ask, what has this gotta do with Theory of Evolution ?
Peace be with you,
This was a response to kgwithnob in the thread about the qiblah, after I brought up the Jinn and Birds. I'll repost the reply to him for consistency
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg281821#msg281821
This is the superstition I have to deal with...
I want you to notice what you just posted
"We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire."
The Jinn were created before the Nasi.
I also want you to note you are using the Arabic word for 'Jinn', but you translate (Nasi) into 'Man'. So already a deception is occurring. But we'll get to that.
Jinn were created before Nasi, which shows Nasi are successors of the Jinn. This is upheld in the Quran.
Successor (Khalif) Surah 230, 3170, 49, 6133, 6165, 717, 769, 774, 7142, 7150, 7169, 9118, 1014, 1073, 1092, 1311, 1959, 2128, 2276, 2762, 349, 3539, 369, 3645, 3826, 4114, 4125, 4142, 4360, 4621, 6715, 7227
?And when thy Lord said to the angels, 'I am setting in the earth a successor (khaleefatan).' They said, 'What, wilt Thou set therein one who will do corruption there, and shed blood, while We proclaim Thy praise and call Thee Holy?' He said, 'Assuredly I know that you know not.'? Surah 230"What, do you wonder that a reminder from your Lord should come to you by the lips of a man from among you? That he may warn you; and remember when He appointed you as successors (khulafaa) after the people of Noah, and increased you in stature broadly; remember God's bounties; haply you will prosper.'" Surah 769
"And there succeeded after them a succession who inherited the Book, taking the chance goods of this lower world, and saying, 'It will be forgiven us'; and if chance goods the like of them come to them, they will take them. Has not the compact of the Book been taken touching them, that they should say concerning God nothing but the truth? And they have studied what is in it; and the Last Abode is better for those who are godfearing. Do you not understand?" Surah 7169
"And to the three who were left behind (khullifoo), until, when the earth became strait for them, for all its breadth, and their souls became strait for them, and they thought that there was no shelter from God except in Him, then He turned towards them, that they might also turn; surely God turns, and is All-compassionate." Surah 9118
"Had We willed, We would have made angels among you successors (yakhlufoona) in the earth." Surah 4360
Allah states clearly Nasi are made from the seed of another people.
"Thy Lord is All-sufficient, Merciful. If He will, He can put you away, and leave after you, to succeed you (wayastakhlif), what He will, as He produced you from the seed (dhurriyyati) of another (kharna) people (qawmin)." Surah 6133
He even gives details how Adam (pbuh) was made.
?He is the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible, the All-mighty, the All-compassionate, Who has created all things well. And He originated the creation of humans (al-insani) of clay (min teenin), then He fashioned his descendant (naslahu) of an extraction (sulalatin) of low (maheenin) water (ma-in), then He shaped (sawwahu) him, and breathed His spirit (roohihi) in him. And He appointed for you hearing, and sight, and hearts; little thanks you show.? Surah 326-9
There is only one Nasi spoken of in the Quran who was shaped and had Allah's ruh breathed into him - Adam (pbuh) Surah 1529, 329, 3872
If all human beings sprung from the joining of one couple, Allah would not make distinction between the bloodline of the Prophets (pbut), as we all would be from the seed of Adam (pbuh).
(dhurriyyatī offspring Surah 2124, 2128, 2266, 334, 336, 338, 49, 684, 687, 6133, 7172, 7173, 1083, 1338, 1437, 1440, 173, 1762, 1850, 1958, 2927, 3641, 3777, 37113, 4615, 5221, 5726
Seed of Adam Surah 333, 683-87, 7172, 172-3, 1958. 5726?We have honoured the Children of Adam and carried them on land and sea, and provided them with good things, and preferred them greatly over many of those We created.? Surah 1770
"That is Our argument, which We bestowed upon Abraham as against his people. We raise up in degrees whom We will; surely thy Lord is All-wise, All-knowing.
And We gave to him Isaac and Jacob -- each one We guided, And Noah We guided before; and of his seed (dhurriyyatihi) David and Solomon, Job and Joseph, Moses and Aaron -- even so We recompense the good-doers -- Zachariah and John, Isa and Elias; each was of the righteous; Ishmael and Elisha, Jonah and Lot - each one We preferred above all beings; and of their fathers, and of their seed (wadhurriyytihim), and of their brethren (wa-ikh'wnihim); and We elected them, and We guided them to a straight path." Surah 683-87"And We gave Moses the Book, and made it a guidance to the Children of Israel 'Take not unto yourselves any guardian apart from Me.' The seed (dhurriyyata) of those We bore with Noah; he was a thankful servant." Surah 172-3
"These are they whom God has blessed among the Prophets of the seed (dhurriyyati) of Adam, and of those We bore with Noah, and of the seed (dhurriyyati) of Abraham and Israel, and of those We guided and chose. When the signs of the All-merciful were recited to them, they fell down prostrate, weeping." Surah 1958
"And We sent Noah, and Abraham, and We appointed the Prophecy and the Book to be among their seed (dhurriyyatihim and some of them are guided, and many of them are ungodly." Surah 5726
The Jinn are human beings.
Jinn are Christians ? Byzantines ? who accepted the Quran Surah 721-18
Jinn are Yahudians ? Persians ? who accepted the Quran Surah 4629-30
Jew and Christian polytheists who lead astray Surah 2105, 2120, 2135, 2140, 367, 395, 3151, 3186, 582, 6106, 6137, 6161, 931-33, 10105, 16120, 2217, 981-6Jinn are foreigners among Nasi Surah 6128-131, 2217, 3412-13, 738, 7179
'Ajam' ? ?Non-Arab? or ?Persian? Surah 16103, 4144, 26198
Roman-Persian wars Surah 302-4, 1051-5
Solomon?s Jinn in Quran Surah 2716-41, 3412-13
Solomon's Jinn in previous Books I Kings 513-17, II Chron. 217-18, II Chron. 44-6But, but, but... They are made of SMOKELESS FIRE!!!!!!!111111111oneoneoneoneleventeen.
The same people who uphold these superstitious beliefs are often among the many who point to the scientific miracles in the Quran.
One such miracle is Surah 2130
"Have not the unbelievers then beheld that the heavens and the earth were a mass all sewn up, and then We unstitched them and of water fashioned every living thing? Will they not believe?" Surah 2130
This is from the Arberry Quran, translated in 1950. The Yusuf Ali Quran, translated in the 1920s reads
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" Surah 2130
In 1978, the Nobel Prize was awarded for the theory of the Big Bang. This theory postulates that the universe was one mass - a monoblock - that was blown apart and sent out into the void.
Press release for 1978 Nobel Peace Prize
http//nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1978/press.html"A theory developed by the American physicist Gamow and his associates suggested that this synthesis took place at the beginning of the existence of the universe. It is known from studies of the spectra of stars and galaxies that the universe is at present expanding uniformly. This means that at a certain point, 15 billion years ago, the universe was very compact; it is thus tempting to assume that the universe was created by a cosmic explosion, or 'big bang', although other explanations are possible. This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees. Only at those temperatures can various nuclear reactions take place such that chemical elements could be built up from the elementary particles assumed to be present from the very beginning."
Here Scientists - the largest group of unbelievers I know of who cannot believe in something without proof - are showing how the components of all life and matter in the universe was created in this one Big Bang of intense heat and expansion.
Let's repeat that "This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees."
This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees.
This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees.Jinn created before Nasi of a released, scorching fire Surah 1527, 5515
?And He created (Wakhalaqa) the jinn of (aljanna min) release (marijin) of fire (min narin).? Surah 5515
?and the jinn created We before of fire scorching (alssamoomi).? Surah 1527While someone who upholds superstition sees evil fire creatures lurking in the aether, I see the intense heat of the Big Bang creating the components of all life itself.
You would think, if the Quran still speaks of the Jinn, there would be some way to know them from the Nasi. After all, Allah makes it clear in Surah 1145-6 that the Jinn are part of the Nasi
"Allathee yuwaswisu fee sudoori alnnasi Mina aljinnati waalnnasi" 1145-6
"who whispers in the breasts of nasi, of jinn and nasi.'" Surah 1145-6If we are ALL Nasi, but there are still Jinn in and among the Nasi, there must be some indication of these Jinn that still remains if they are humans, right? If the Quran says it, then we should find some indication of it.
Neanderthal DNA still found in modern Homo Sapiens
Neanderthals, Humans Interbred?First Solid DNA Evidence
"The next time you're tempted to call some oaf a Neanderthal, you might want to take a look in the mirror.
According to a new DNA study, most humans have a little Neanderthal in them?at least 1 to 4 percent of a person's genetic makeup.
The study uncovered the first solid genetic evidence that "modern" humans?or Homo sapiens?interbred with their Neanderthal neighbors, who mysteriously died out about 30,000 years ago.
What's more, the Neanderthal-modern human mating apparently took place in the Middle East, shortly after modern humans had left Africa, not in Europe?as has long been suspected."Read more http//news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100506-science-neanderthals-humans-mated-interbred-dna-gene/
Study Neanderthal DNA Lives On in Modern Humans
"Still, other paleoanthropologists say the discovery is not entirely unexpected. There is ample archaeological evidence ? including tools, habitation sites and fossils ? that Neanderthals and early modern humans may have coexisted in the Middle East as much as 80,000 years ago, and certainly in Europe 30,000 to 45,000 years ago. What has been missing until now is the genetic evidence."The fact that they found it across the board says that the evidence must be very widespread across modern humans," says Erik Trinkaus, an anthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo., who has long argued that the human fossils he has studied in France, Romania, the Czech Republic and other places show mixed ancestry. "If you can find evidence after 30,000 years of genetic shifting, then it must have been pretty important or prominent then." Trinkaus speculates that the genetic flow between Neanderthals and early modern humans might have been as high as 10% to 20%.
The new finding may prompt a tweaking of the well-known Out of Africa theory, which in its strictest interpretation says a small group of early modern humans left Africa and outcompeted and replaced all other hominids without any interbreeding. The alternate theory, known as multiregionalism, argues that distinct populations of modern humans developed simultaneously around the world and along the same evolutionary lines by swapping genes.
"What we falsify here is the very hard Out of Africa theory," said P??bo. "We show that outside Africa there is this 1% to 4% that came from archaic humans. Of course, it's totally possible that archaic forms that we don't know contributed to Africans today. I don't think we should take this as evidence that only people outside Africa have some 'caveman' biology within them."
According to Trinkaus, many paleoanthropologists have long believed that early modern humans and Neanderthals interbred. "People have been saying this for decades," he argues. "The minority position was the position that there was no gene flow. Most people who work with the fossil record support some level of admixture."Whatever our mixing, it is human uniqueness that has also been revealed by the sequencing. By comparing the Neanderthal genome with those of modern humans, the team identified a small number of genetic changes that were newly evolved in modern humans. Some of the changes may have arisen as a result of genetic drift, but others seem to have been positively selected for ? meaning they swept through populations rapidly, possibly because they gave us some advantage."
Read more http//www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1987568-2,00.html
So we do find remnants of the Jinn - Neanderthal man - who was created before Homo Sapien man. We find this in the DNA of Homo Sapien - the Nasi.
I don't believe in a 'Creation' theory, where 'man' was poof suddenly made after an old man in a beard rolled up his sleeves and sculpted him.
I don't believe in a 'Evolution' theory, where 'man' is a series of lucky breaks in evolutionary shifts in such a manner that it is a leap of faith in and of itself.
I believe in an Intervention theory, where Allah guided the path of each successor. Allah says 'Be' and it is, and it is in accord with the Sunnah He has instilled into this world. A world that upholds logic, reason, and evidence-based research.Why would someone want to hide that Jinn are humans, who hold the same ties to Nasi?
"Say 'If the Last Abode with God is yours exclusively, and not for other people, then long for death -- if you speak truly.'" Surah 294
"Say 'You of Jewry, if you assert that you are the friends of God, apart from other men, then do you long for death, if you speak truly.'" Surah 626Hebrew ?nasi? president, prince, ruler
Lev. 422, Eze. 442-18, Ezra 18What are the common translations for 'Nasi' in Arabic men, people, rulers/viceroys
From the Babylonian Talmud
Sanhedrin 57a When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean", there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 37b The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Baba Kamma 113a Jews may use lies ("subterfuges" to circumvent a Gentile.
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Baba Mezia 24a If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen" it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b)."Say "The Truth has arrived, and falsehood neither originates, nor reproduces." Surah 3449
It's the same false teachings recycled into what is taught in the religions of man.
"Some of the Jews pervert words from their meanings saying, 'We have heard and we disobey' and 'Hear, and be thou not given to hear' and 'Observe us,' twisting with their tongues and traducing religion. If they had said, 'We have heard and obey' and 'Hear' and 'Regard us,' it would have been better for them, and more upright; but God has cursed them for their unbelief so they believe not except a few." Surah 446
"People of the Book, now there has come to you Our Messenger, making clear to you many things you have been concealing of the Book, and effacing many things. There has come to you from God a light, and a Book Manifest" Surah 515
"Then the evildoers of them substituted a saying other than that which had been said to them; so We sent down upon them wrath out of heaven for their evildoing." Surah 7162
And let's not forget the Birds.
?And Solomon was David's heir, and he said, 'Nasi (alnnasu), we have been taught the speech of the birds (alttayri), and we have been given of everything; surely this is indeed the manifest bounty.'? Surah 2716
Solomon wasn't the only person who knew 'the speech of birds'. The Nasi were taught it as well.
Phoenicia(from the Greek Greek Phoin?kē, was an ancient civilization in Canaan which covered most of the western, coastal part of the fertile Crescent. "Phoenicia" is really a Classical Greek term used to refer to the region of the major Canaanite port towns, and does not correspond exactly to a cultural identity that would have been recognised by the Phoenicians themselves. It is uncertain to what extent the Phoenicians viewed themselves as a single ethnicity. Their civilization was organized in city-states, similar to ancient Greece. However In terms of archaeology, language, life style and religion, there is little to set the Phoenicians apart as markedly different from other cultures of Canaan. As Canaanites, they were unique in their remarkable seafaring achievements.
Around 1600 B.C. the Phoenicians invented 22 ?magic signs? called the alphabet, and passed them onto the world. The Phoenicians gave the alphabet to the Greeks who adopted it; the evolution of the Phoenician Alphabet to Etruscan alphabet to the Latin letters of present-day. The Phoenicians were the first state-level society to make extensive use of the alphabet. The Phoenician phonetic alphabet is generally believed to be the ancestor of almost all modern alphabets, although it did not contain any vowels (these were added later by the Greeks). From a traditional linguistic perspective, they spoke Phoenician, a Canaanite dialect. However, due to the very slight differences in language, and the insufficient records of the time, whether Phoenician formed a separate and united dialect, or was merely a superficially defined part of a broader language continuum, is unclear. Through their maritime trade, the Phoenicians spread the use of the alphabet to North Africa and Europe, where it was adopted by the Greeks, who later passed it on to the Etruscans, who in turn transmitted it to the Romans.Hudhud, aka 'Hoopoe' - the bird with the crest on it's head?
http//creagrus.home.montereybay.com/Hoopoe_madj-crest.jpg
A Greek helmet
http//www.lawrensnest.com/images/GRK6058BP.jpg(The Hoopoe is also Israel's National Bird, for those interested.)
The Phoenicans were assimilated into the Greek empire, which was assimilated into the Roman empire to become the Byzantine Empire. What is the flag of the Byzantine Empire?
http//www.glogster.com/media/4/13/31/47/13314752.png
But hey, I'm the crazy one. Right?
This is where your superstition gets you into trouble, as you lay your beliefs over what is actually taught.
There are 3 types of people described in the Quran.
3 types of people Surah 746-48, 567-11
- The Foremost
- The People of the Right Hand
- The People of the Left Hand
The Foremost/Outstrippers are
"a throng of the ancients and how few of the later folk." Surah 5613-14The People of the Right Hand are
"A throng of the ancients and a throng of the later folk." Surah 5639-40Allah names both partitions, 'The ancients (al-awwaleena) and the later folk (waal-akhireena)' in Surah 5649
The People of the Left Hand abide in the Fire. Surah 5649-56The two Gardens are for the Foremost and the People of the Right Hand.
The Foremost are in elevated rank, and are in better reward in the Hereafter. Allah teaches of the believers in Paradise, those in the Ramparts, and those in the Fire
"The inhabitants of Paradise will call to the inhabitants of the Fire 'We have found that. which our Lord promised us true; have you found what your Lord promised you true?' 'Yes,' they will say. And then a herald shall proclaim between them 'God's curse is on the evildoers
who bar from God's way, desiring to make it crooked, disbelieving in the world to come.
And between them is a veil, and on the Ramparts are men knowing each by their mark, who shall call to the inhabitants of Paradise 'Peace be upon you! They have not entered it, for all their eagerness.'" Surah 744-46So the Ramparts are one Garden for the Foremost, while the other Garden is for the People of the Right Hand, who are believers but are not foremost in deeds.
Now, you are more than welcome to believe in invisible fire spirits, and that Allah sculpted a man out of clay and made him come alive like Pinocchio, and that Prophets (pbut) were able to speak to birds in a Walt Disney fashion.
But don't expect me to believe it when there is no proof for it.Peace.
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Raginggaijin
"And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind." (1527)
"And He created Jinns from fire free of smoke" (5515)
Proof GOD
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzcVu-CpzXQProof Jinn
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwjC7dEMkDUProof Birds
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyEpjv2nAhoFeel free to uphold teachings of the ancients of evil spirits and boogeymen.
The Quran does not uphold the teachings of the ancients, so I cannot believe as you believe.
I believe Jinn are the race of humans that preceded Nasi.Peace.
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In the end Allah knows best. Raging Gaijinn its me Hamit from youtube =D lol. Personally It makes absolute and logical sense that Jinn are humans. reasonable logic tells me it makes absolutely no sense how humans take refuge with invisible spirits. It also makes no sense that an invisible spirit with no physical body no organs, no sperm, can copulate with a human. When such biological mixing is impossible between certain animals, let alone a fire race and a human. Also since fire is a form of energy or element, it is not subject to physical decay and death. So as I understand, Logically speaking Jinn are humans. Also the fact for genetic differences makes one wonder. Either Adam was the first nasi, and jin are not human. or it presents a contradiction. as if all humans are from adam directly why genetic variance? Allah knows best though. I am not a scientist. However the only thing I do not agree with. Or rather let me rephrase that, dont have much knowledge or understanding of. Is this whole Iblis being an Angel. If I remember correctly unless the verse is wrongly translated. Is that Allah says he will throw Iblis in hell with all those who he misguided. So It also leades to the question. who is the "Iblis" on other planets? If Iblis is employed to tempt us. what tempts other creations in the universe? But then its pointless to probe our minds in such things. Logically speaking Jinn cant be spirits. However this presents the dilemma where many are advocating angels are humans as well. Like Aidad Safar, and some other Quranist groups. It makes absolutely no sense. Have you read any of there work? When I ask for evidence they never really provide any. Just persist in a rant that angels not being human is superstitious. lol. Salam brothers/sisters
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In the end Allah knows best. Raging Gaijinn its me Hamit from youtube =D lol. Personally It makes absolute and logical sense that Jinn are humans. reasonable logic tells me it makes absolutely no sense how humans take refuge with invisible spirits. It also makes no sense that an invisible spirit with no physical body no organs, no sperm, can copulate with a human. When such biological mixing is impossible between certain animals, let alone a fire race and a human. Also since fire is a form of energy or element, it is not subject to physical decay and death. So as I understand, Logically speaking Jinn are humans. Also the fact for genetic differences makes one wonder. Either Adam was the first nasi, and jin are not human. or it presents a contradiction. as if all humans are from adam directly why genetic variance? Allah knows best though. I am not a scientist.
Peace be with you,
Allah tells us He gave us hearts, minds, and eyes, but many are ungrateful. Trust in Him to explain, and turn to Him for guidance. Ask Him for knowledge and watch Him fill you up with it. )
I think that is the hardest part of serving Allah. Truly trusting in Him for all your needs, including understanding the Quran.However the only thing I do not agree with. Or rather let me rephrase that, dont have much knowledge or understanding of. Is this whole Iblis being an Angel. If I remember correctly unless the verse is wrongly translated. Is that Allah says he will throw Iblis in hell with all those who he misguided. So It also leades to the question. who is the "Iblis" on other planets? If Iblis is employed to tempt us. what tempts other creations in the universe?
Allah is Lord of all beings (alAAalameena). Surah 12, 247
"Those are they whom God has guided; so follow their guidance. Say 'I ask of you no wage for it; it is but a reminder unto all beings.'" Surah 690
So if there are other beings on other planets, then by upholding the sunnatil Allahi - the Way of Allah - they too will have their own battles with Iblis, their Free Will Ego.
Ego - our Free Will.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ralgm95jeMThey will have evil whispered to them from their souls, as proven by the ayats given above. If it is done a certain way here, it will be the same everywhere. Allah does not change His way.
If Iblis is our Free Will, it will be thrown into the Fire with all the Jinn and Nasi, because they all possess Free Will, an Ego, to be burned out of them by the purification of the Fire.
But then its pointless to probe our minds in such things. Logically speaking Jinn cant be spirits. However this presents the dilemma where many are advocating angels are humans as well. Like Aidad Safar, and some other Quranist groups. It makes absolutely no sense. Have you read any of there work? When I ask for evidence they never really provide any. Just persist in a rant that angels not being human is superstitious. lol. Salam brothers/sisters
Don't believe without proof. If they cannot provide proof for their beliefs, then why believe them?
I do know the word 'malik' contains other uses besides 'angels' as for example (malikun) used for 'Kings' as found in Surah 2246, 2247, 520, 1243, 1250, 1254, 1272, 1276, 1879 (and there are more.) It also means 'Master' as we see in Surah 14, 326, 3671. These are all positions of control, dominion.
But Allah is clear about the difference between angels and men. Allah even states if He sent an angel (malakun), they would look like men making the matter even more confused, as they are already confusing the issue as to what angels truly are.
"'Why has an angel (malakun) not been sent down on him?' they say; yet had We sent down an angel (malakun), the matter would have been determined, and then no respite would be given them.
And had We made him an angel (malakan), yet assuredly We would have made him a man (rajulan), and confused for them the thing which they themselves are confusing." Surah 68-9I used to believe in the idea of angels being robes males with wings who fly around doing the will of Allah. Now, I can't see them in that nature but as the forces that do the command of Allah as He tells them to.
What will it appear as when the angels are sent down to settle the matter on this earth?
"Upon the day that heaven is split asunder with the clouds and the angels are sent down in majesty, the Kingdom that day, the true Kingdom, shall belong to the All-merciful and it shall be a day harsh for the unbelievers." Surah 2525-26
"What do they look for, but that God shall come to them in the shadows of the clouds, and the angels? The matter is determined, and unto God all matters are returned." Surah 2210
"And if they should see a portion of the heaven coming down, they would say Piled up clouds." Surah 5244
There are humans, mortals (basharan), men (rijalun) who are servants of Allah who are chosen to do His will, given the spirit of His command (ruhi bin amrihi). But there is no proof in the Quran that angels manifested on this earth in the form of mortals (basharan) or men (rijalun). Proof is given above. Please check it out for yourself. )
The Quran truly contains an explanation and a description of all things. But don't expect to be in a majority. Allah warns that there are few believers. Surah 1140, 5136, 3824, 3420, 73, 612-3, 6116, 331-2
So even among people who say they serve only Allah, there are people who are misguided."And some Nasi there are who say, 'We believe in God and the Last Day'; but they are not believers. They would trick God and the believers, and only themselves they deceive, and they are not aware." Surah 28-9
Don't be concerned about the majority or unity. Strive first and foremost to serve Allah in the best of your ability, and serving Him alone. Ask Him for explanation of the Quran, and be patient. Study the Quran diligently and do not depend on anyone's opinion, and that includes me. Only Allah is Guide. He is Friend to the believers.
There is a reason why I left all those groups. Allah is sufficient for me. Surah 3173, 445, 470, 479, 481, 4132, 4166, 4171, 862, 864, 959, 9129, 1029, 1343, 1796, 2952, 333, 3339, 3936, 3938, 4828, 653
Allah gave us a heart, eyes, and a mind. Be among the grateful and use them! D
And if we disagree, so what? We aren't responsible for each other, only ourselves.
Let us vie among each other in doing good deeds. Allah will sort us out in the End.May Allah increase us in knowledge.
Peace and blessings.
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Brother, if they didnt come appearing as mortals who was it that spoke to marrry? Or delivered the glad tidings to Abraham, Noah. and revealed the Quran to Muhammad. Maybw I misread what you wrote. or did it all occur in a dream? Salam
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Brother, if they didnt come appearing as mortals who was it that spoke to marrry?
A mortal man.
No where in Surah 19 does it speak of a (malakun). There is only a mortal (basharun).I can't make anyone see that, even when the Arabic is shown
"Faittakhathat min doonihim hijaban faarsalna ilayha roohana fatamaththala laha basharan sawiyyan" Surah 1917
Do you see (malakun) there? No.
Do you see (rijalun) there? No.
Do you see (basharun) there? Yes."Then she took (Faittakhathat) from (min) beside them (doonihim) a screen (hijaban), then We sent (faarsalna) to here (ilayha) Our spirit (roohana) his likeness (fatamaththala) it is (laha) mortal (basharan) well-proportioned (sawiyyan)." Surah 1917
Look up the word 'likeness' also translated as 'description'
"And had We willed, We would have raised him up thereby; but he inclined towards the earth and followed his lust. So the likeness (famathaluhu) of him is as the likeness (kamathali) of a dog; if thou attackest it it lolls its tongue out, or if thou leavest it, it lolls its tongue out. That is that people's likeness who cried lies to Our signs. So relate the story; haply they will reflect." Surah 7176
"Now We have sent down to you signs making all clear, and description (wamathalan) of those who passed away before you, and an admonition for the godfearing." Surah 2434
"Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. Thou seest them bowing, prostrating, seeking bounty from God and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their description (mathaluhum) in the Torah, and their description (wamathaluhum) in the Gospel as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage." Surah 4829
Allah gives description and states (basharun). Remember what Allah taught us earlier?
"'Why has an angel (malakun) not been sent down on him?' they say; yet had We sent down an angel (malakun), the matter would have been determined, and then no respite would be given them.
And had We made him an angel (malakan), yet assuredly We would have made him a man (rajulan), and confused for them the thing which they themselves are confusing." Surah 68-9So why would Allah give description the mortal (basharun) who came to her when He used (rijalun) earlier in the example of an angel being sent down? What does Mary (pbuh) tell him when she is told why he is there?
"She said, 'How shall I have a son whom no mortal (basharun) has touched, neither have I been unchaste?'" Surah 1920
Allah shows a mortal (basharun) is sent and before Mary conceived the Messiah (pbuh), no mortal (basharun) has touched her.
So why would I believe an angel was sent when Allah's description is crystal clear?
You've already seen the proofs that show how Allah describes conception; it is always with the sperm and ovum. Do you want me to post them here for the sake of completeness?If He didn't do it in the past with previous Prophets (pbut), He will not change it with any Prophet. Allah says it, and I believe it.
Allah does not change, nor does He change His way (sunnati Allahi) Surah 624, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4
Or delivered the glad tidings to Abraham, Noah
Mortal men. No where in the Quran does it state angels appeared as men. Allah even says if there were angels as settlers, He would send one as Messenger. But there aren't!
"Say 'Had there been in the earth angels (mala-ikatun) walking. at peace, We would have sent down upon them out of heaven an angel (malakan) as Messenger.'" Surah 1795
Even the people of Noah stated no angels were sent down before, so why believe Noah (pbuh)?
"Said the Council of the unbelievers of his people, 'This is naught but a mortal like yourselves, who desires to gain superiority over you. And if God willed, He would have sent down angels (mala-ikatan). We never heard of this among, our fathers, the ancients." Surah 2324
Allah tells us if an angel were sent down the matter would be decided. Surah 68-9, 693, 6158, 1112, 257
Allah sent only Nasi, mortals (beshar), men (rijalun) as Prophets. Surah 379-80, 6130, 12109, 1338, 2129, 2275
and revealed the Quran to Muhammad. Maybw I misread what you wrote. or did it all occur in a dream? Salam
Allah revealed the Quran to Muhammad (pbuh). The revelation was sent down in the spirit of His command, and laid upon Muhammad's heart.
"Say 'Whosoever is an enemy to Gabriel -- he it was that brought it down (fa-innahu) upon thy heart by the leave (bi-idh'ni) of God (Allahi), confirming what was before it, and for a guidance and good tidings to the believers." Surah 297
"brought down by the Faithful Spirit" Surah 26193
"Even so We have revealed to thee a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Book was, nor belief; but We made it a light, whereby We guide whom We will of Our servants. And thou, surely thou shalt guide unto a straight path --" Surah 4252
No where in the Quran does it teach of an angelic man reciting words to Muhammad (pbuh) or any Prophet of Allah (pbut). Allah is very clear on how He reveals to mankind.
"It belongs not to any mortal that God should speak to him, except by revelation, or from behind a veil, or that He should send a Messenger and he reveal whatsoever He will, by His leave; surely He is All-high, All-wise." Surah 4251
"And when We said to thee, 'Surely thy Lord encompasses men,' and We made the vision that We showed thee and the tree cursed in the Koran to be only a trial for men; and We frighten them, but it only increases them in great insolence." Surah 1760
"God has indeed fulfilled the vision He vouchsafed to His Messenger truly 'You shall enter the Holy Mosque, if God wills, in security, your heads shaved, your hair cut short, not fearing.' He knew what you knew not, and appointed ere that a nigh victory." Surah 4827
The hardest part for us is to give up the preconceptions we bring to our deen, and start over from scratch. Forget everything you used to believe and begin fresh.
Proof Angels
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz151UufthwYou are not stupid, dumb, or incapable of understanding. Trust in Allah. He is Guide.
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.
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I see what your saying. But question. When it refers the Quran was brought down to his heart. Would you mean in the context he had it in a vision? That Gabriel did not come as an angel to bring it down. that it was to his heart or a vision. Not in the literal sense? I will look into this as it is very interesting. But I just want to fully understand the context your referring to. Also in regards to Abraham, and Lot, when the messengers came to Abraham, and he offered food and they would not take it. then He sought refuge in Allah and they said fear not we are messengers of God. Was this verse mistranslated? were these "messengers" not angels who came to Abraham? Peace be upon you brother
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Peace be with you,
I see what your saying. But question. When it refers the Quran was brought down to his heart. Would you mean in the context he had it in a vision? That Gabriel did not come as an angel to bring it down.
Allah is clear We don't have a lot of knowledge of the spirit (ruh).
"They will question thee concerning the Spirit. Say 'The Spirit is of the bidding of my Lord. You have been given of knowledge nothing except a little.'" Surah 1785
You are asking me to create hadith on what happened. I cannot. I only know what Allah has shown us in the Quran. There is plenty of room for people - satans - to create their own teachings, but Allah is clear those are the people who will lead people astray with their teachings based on allegory, not what Allah teaches. Surah 37
There are some things we just won't know until the Day of Judgment.
Now I have to ask Where do you get the idea that Gabriel was a man with wings who came down in a vision and recited the Quran? Part of the process of learning is getting rid of all the past ideas and teachings and starting over. If we don't, we will overlay the ideas we had prior to guidance and try to make them fit. If Allah does not teach it in the Quran, why uphold it?
that it was to his heart or a vision. Not in the literal sense? I will look into this as it is very interesting. But I just want to fully understand the context your referring to. Also in regards to Abraham, and Lot, when the messengers came to Abraham, and he offered food and they would not take it. then He sought refuge in Allah and they said fear not we are messengers of God. Was this verse mistranslated? were these "messengers" not angels who came to Abraham?
Why would you think they are angels when Allah is clear in the Quran
Angels are not men (rijalun) nor mortals (basharan) nor are they settlers on this earth. No where in the ayats that speak of the Messengers sent to Abraham and Lot (pbut) that they are (malikan). So why do you believe they are angels?
Allah sent only Nasi, mortals (beshar), men (rijalun) Surah 379-80, 6130, 12109, 1338, 2129, 2275
"And We sent Messengers before thee, and We assigned to them wives, and seed; and it was not for any Messengers to bring a sign, but by God's leave. Every term has a Book." Surah 1338
Angels bring down the Message in the spirit of Allah's command onto the hearts of the servant's of Allah's choosing. No where in the Quran does it teach angels manifested in any mortal form on earth. Angels are immortal; they do not die.
It is my turn to ask you to bring proof to show why you believe what you believe.
If you cannot provide proof to support it, why do you uphold it?May Allah increase us in knowledge.
Peace.
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No where in the Quran does it teach angels manifested in any mortal form on earth.
Peace raginggaijin, transformation of the ruh did take place, that is clearly written ...
1917 so We sent to her (our ruh) so he assumed for her the likeness basharan/human straight (i.e. real).
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Salam,
Verily I say unto you all, I still do not see the point in your posts reflecting the topic of the thread.
Peace
--------------------------- Student of Allah
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Peace raginggaijin, transformation of the ruh did take place, that is clearly written ...
1917 so We sent to her (our ruh) so he assumed for her the likeness basharan/human straight (i.e. real).
Peace and blessings of Allah be with you and yours,
Now a reader runs into problems when the word translated as 'for he assumed for her the likeness' is given for the word (fatamathala). So a phrase is given for a single word, yet throughout the Quran it is not given the same translation, but instead 'likeness', 'description', and 'similitude'. I gave ayats above that show this
"And had We willed, We would have raised him up thereby; but he inclined towards the earth and followed his lust. So the likeness (famathaluhu) (ُ of him is as the likeness (kamathali)(ِ of a dog; if thou attackest it it lolls its tongue out, or if thou leavest it, it lolls its tongue out. That is that people's likeness who cried lies to Our signs. So relate the story; haply they will reflect." Surah 7176
"Now We have sent down to you signs making all clear, and description (wamathalan)(ا of those who passed away before you, and an admonition for the godfearing." Surah 2434
"Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. Thou seest them bowing, prostrating, seeking bounty from God and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their description (mathaluhum)(ْ in the Torah, and their description (wamathaluhum)(ْ in the Gospel as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage." Surah 4829
This is one of the issues I have with translations, as the translators give a meaning to a word that is used elsewhere in the Quran, but is not translated the same. And in this case, an exposition on the meaning is given.
(fatamathala)(َ Surah 1917
(famathaluhu) (ُ Surah 7176
(kamathali)(ِ Surah 7176
(wamathalan)(ا Surah 2434
(mathaluhum)(ْ Surah 4829
(wamathaluhum)(ْ Surah 4829Yet in none of the ayats outside of Surah 1917 do they say "they assumed the likeness' or 'they assumed the description' or 'they assumed the similitude'.
So why do they add what Allah did not say to this ayat?
There is no argument the spirit (ruh)(ا, the command of Allah, was sent. Allah is clear about how He sends the spirit (ruh)
"He sends down the angels in the spirit (ِ of His command ( ِ upon whomsoever He will among His servants, saying Give you warning that there is no God hut I; so fear you Me!" Surah 162
"Exalter of ranks is He, Possessor of the Throne, casting the spirit (َ of His command ( ِ upon whomever He will of His servants, that he may warn them of the Day of Encounter," Surah 4015
"They will question thee concerning the Spirit. Say 'The spirit (ُ is of the command ( ِ of my Lord(ي. You have been given of knowledge nothing except a little.'" Surah 1785
For those who say the spirit (ruh) assumed the appearance of a mortal, they run into problems
The spirit is the command of Allah.
Allah casts His spirit (ruh) into the Prophets (pbut) and the believers.
Are they then not mortals, humans?"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Isa son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him (waroohun). So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him -- That He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian." Surah 4171
"Say 'The Holy spirit (roohu) sent it down from thy Lord in truth, and to confirm those who believe, and to be a guidance and good tidings to those who surrender.'" Surah 16102
"And she who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our spirit (roohina) and appointed her and her son to be a sign unto all beings." Surah 2191
"then He shaped him, and breathed His spirit (roohihi) in him. And He appointed for you hearing, and sight, and hearts; little thanks you show." Surah 329
"Even so We have revealed to thee a spirit (roohan) of Our command (min amrina). Thou knewest not what the Book was, nor belief; but We made it a light, whereby We guide whom We will of Our servants. And thou, surely thou shalt guide unto a straight path --" Surah 4252
The spirit is Allah's command. The spirit is cast upon Allah's servants. No where is the spirit a mortal (basharan) human being (insana) or physical manifestation of a man (rijalun).
More to ponder and ask Allah for explanation on.
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.
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Salam,
Verily I say unto you all, I still do not see the point in your posts reflecting the topic of the thread.
Peace be with you,
The points about the spirit?
The points about how Allah originated creation?
The points about the beliefs of Jinn and Nasi?They are interlinked.
Allah does not change His way. If He established a way with the Prophets (pbut) before, He will not change it.
So if people believe Adam was created out of literal clay and breathed life into like Pinocchio, then Allah changed His way. Allah is very clear on how humans are made as a result of conception. Surah
If people believe Isa was created by virgin birth, then Allah changed His way. Virgin birth cults have been around in pagan teachings since Isis and Horus in Egypt.
If people believe Jinn are fire creatures who live on the earth, then Allah changed His way. Allah only sent humans, mortals, Nasi as Messengers, and He states angels are not settlers in the earth or He would have sent an angel as a Messenger for them.I'm unclear as to where the confusion comes in.
Peace.
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Peace raginggaijin,
Now a reader runs into problems when the word translated as 'for he assumed for her the likeness' is given for the word (fatamathala). So a phrase is given for a single word, yet throughout the Quran it is not given the same translation, but instead 'likeness', 'description', and 'similitude'.
OK then 1917 so We sent to her (our ruh) so likeness/appearance for her basharan/human straight (i.e. real).
It?s clear the ruh appeared to her as a real person, so what is the issue?
For those who say the spirit (ruh) assumed the appearance of a mortal, they run into problems
The spirit is the command of Allah.
Allah casts His spirit (ruh) into the Prophets (pbut) and the believers.
Are they then not mortals, humans?There are no problems, simply add 1917 to what we know about the ruh ? sent ?appears? as a person.
Allah does not change His way.
That's an assumption on the complete understanding of all the physics involved and the way of Allah.
Verily I say unto you all, I still do not see the point in your posts reflecting the topic of the thread.
OK back to topic, I believe in devolution of the original code program of life over time which initself has error correcting and adapting code. Thus nothing new is created which wasn't a part of the original and it's only some parts of the code that are applified or turned on whereas other parts of the code are inactive/dormant or destroyed by radiaction, etc. No such thing as evolution, programs don't re-write themselves as version 2.0 unless extremely advanced adaptable to begin with and the idea of precise machinery evolving over time healing itself as in DNA replication even if given billions of years absurd.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jtmOZaIvS0
