Theory of Evolution anyone ?
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My opinion is simply that mutations and natural selection can't create anything without any sort of intelligent guidence or intervention in the process. Regardless of how many "billions of years" pass. The information in the DNA alone is enough evidence because from our human experience we know that information can't come into existence without a programmer/designer/creator. You don't have to see the software engineer to know that a particular software was designed (created) by someone.
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This Darwinian thing gets me sick. It is like any other religion. You believe in it or do not believe in it.
There were evolution theories before Darwin not only amongst the islamic civilisations, but also in the western civilisations and there is also the quantic evolution theory. When the study of the history of beings gets rid of the Darwin taint, we may get to talk seriously about it.
Darwin stardom is a brainwashing tool just as any other and makes sure that any talk about evolution, which is a fact of existence, is tainted by the "survival of the fittest" and all against all, philosophy which si very much the thinking code of conquering empires.
Salaam
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The way I try to understand the universe is to build off of the verses in the Qur'an. 2920 Say, "Roam the earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Then God will establish the final design. God is capable of all things." How do I know how the creation was initiated? I find the verse 2130 which says the heavens and earth were joined together then split or disjoined. This is clear to me that God caused the Big Bang. I read 327-10 The One who perfected everything He created and He began the creation of the human from clay. Then He made his offspring from a structure derived from an insignificant liquid. Then He evolved him, and blew into him from His Spirit. He made for you the hearing, the eyesight, and the hearts; rarely are you thankful. They said, "When we are buried in the ground, will we be created anew?" Indeed, they reject the meeting of their Lord.
So I build from there. Understand the nature of clay, understand human embryology, and accept only what agrees with the Qur'an. -
Peace, huruf.
This Darwinian thing gets me sick. It is like any other religion. You believe in it or do not believe in it.
This is nonsensical. There is a vast amount of evidence to support Darwin's conclusion concerning evolution by natural selection. Can you say this same thing with regards to the world's religions and their 'creation' stories (myths)? Are you saying that we should reject what the verifiable evidence points to, with regard to biological evolution? Instead, we should believe what a 7th-century book tells us concerning the 'creation' process, even though there's no evidence to support it?
Think about it...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, glorytothegracious.
The way I try to understand the universe is to build off of the verses in the Qur'an. 2920 Say, "Roam the earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Then God will establish the final design. God is capable of all things." How do I know how the creation was initiated? I find the verse 2130 which says the heavens and earth were joined together then split or disjoined. This is clear to me that God caused the Big Bang. I read 327-10 The One who perfected everything He created and He began the creation of the human from clay. Then He made his offspring from a structure derived from an insignificant liquid. Then He evolved him, and blew into him from His Spirit. He made for you the hearing, the eyesight, and the hearts; rarely are you thankful. They said, "When we are buried in the ground, will we be created anew?" Indeed, they reject the meeting of their Lord.
So I build from there. Understand the nature of clay, understand human embryology, and accept only what agrees with the Qur'an.That doesn't sound biased and unsound to you?
Have you ever considered the possible conclusion that, perhaps, the Quran is wrong? Or are you willing to blindly accept whatever it says, regardless of what the evidence points to? The Islamic prophet Jesus speaks of this idea in the Bible, in case you were unaware
"Let them alone they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matt. 1514)
If your only source of information rests in "blind" belief and conviction, then you have already fallen into a "ditch" (or pit) of ignorance; and as long as you are unwilling to "see", or recognize the truth, you are merely leading others to this same pit, causing them to stumble and fall in the same ditch that you fell into. Maybe that leaves something to think about...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, huruf.
This is nonsensical. There is a vast amount of evidence to support Darwin's conclusion concerning evolution by natural selection. Can you say this same thing with regards to the world's religions and their 'creation' stories (myths)? Are you saying that we should reject what the verifiable evidence points to, with regard to biological evolution? Instead, we should believe what a 7th-century book tells us concerning the 'creation' process, even though there's no evidence to support it?
Think about it...
Peace,
Ahmad
So for you there is just that Darwin racist classist would be scientist or religions of the 7th century? That is it? That is all you know? That is indeed very little. You should read and search a little more and learn from real scientists, not an ideologist like Darwin, and what an ideology.
Salaam
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Peace, huruf.
So for you there is just that Darwin racist classist would be scientist or religions of the 7th century? That is it? That is all you know? That is indeed very little. You should read and search a little more and learn from real scientists, not an ideologist like Darwin, and what an ideology.
Whether Charles Darwin was "racist" or not is of little concern to me. I'm not a 'follower' of Darwin, nor do I take his words to be "divine" in some sense... I'm talking specifically about the theory of evolution by natural selection. Again, all of the modern scientific evidence points to this conclusion. There are thousands of creation stories throughout the world, and there have been millions of them throughout history. In each one, the prescribed god of the people was the one who somehow formed (shaped, created) everything in existence. Yet, not one of these stories can be substantiated by scientific evidence or investigation.
Which creation story are you saying that we should follow - the one written in a 7th century religious book; the one written in the Bible, which predates the Quran by several centuries; the one written on Indian and Mesopotamian sculptures; the one scribed on the walls of ancient Egyptian and Nubian pyramids; or should we accept the rational conclusion that all of the scientific evidence points to?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Salaam Ahmad Bilal,
Science is not always right and there are many uncertainties regarding creation. Despite this we cannot argue that there has not been an evolution, but spiritualists believe this is controlled by God in one way or another. The direction of evolution is believed to be controlled by the one referred to as God.
Religion does not mean you have to disregard the evolution or the things which can be proved by science. Religion on the other hand cannot be verified by science and has only to do with Faith. You cannot verify God because there are no ways to prove the existence with the instruments or measurements available. It has only to do with believe in the unseen.
Your individual life and experiences can lead to a Faith. But you cannot gauge God's doings because the force is invisible and not of this realm, to a believer.
Even in my religion the world is eternal, energy does not just disappear as you said. The same goes for the energy of a soul in my opinion.
Hope you respect my Faith and understand I am humbly accepting your critical eyes.
God bless you
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Peace, huruf.
This is nonsensical. There is a vast amount of evidence to support Darwin's conclusion concerning evolution by natural selection.
That's really not true at all, it's mostly speculation and conjecture. I suggest reading some books by people like Michael Behe and Stephen C. Meyer. I'm going to buy Meyers' newest book that will be published this June or July I believe.
This is also a great site in my view;
http//www.evolutionnews.org/
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Peace, huruf.
Whether Charles Darwin was "racist" or not is of little concern to me. I'm not a 'follower' of Darwin, nor do I take his words to be "divine" in some sense... I'm talking specifically about the theory of evolution by natural selection. Again, all of the modern scientific evidence points to this conclusion. There are thousands of creation stories throughout the world, and there have been millions of them throughout history. In each one, the prescribed god of the people was the one who somehow formed (shaped, created) everything in existence. Yet, not one of these stories can be substantiated by scientific evidence or investigation.
Which creation story are you saying that we should follow - the one written in a 7th century religious book; the one written in the Bible, which predates the Quran by several centuries; the one written on Indian and Mesopotamian sculptures; the one scribed on the walls of ancient Egyptian and Nubian pyramids; or should we accept the rational conclusion that all of the scientific evidence points to?
Peace,
Ahmad
Man you repeat yourself and you simply say again what I have just pointed out a sulliness in your ssumptions about people who do not agree with you.
Also in science, never, never, never, is the last word said, because it develops and what is "the truth" one day, next day or next century or next millenium is not true any more. -and interpetation of religious texts of course has followed the science of the day of the interpreter. So the choice you present either this or that is itself unnecessary, unwarranted and unscientific. But there are in the science camp many things which are far more interesting, that the darwinian "Mr. Natural Selection".
I am so eager to meet that person "natural selection"Salaam
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I quote from the article cited at the beginning, which, funnily, says that Darwin'S survival of the fittest or its improved version "natural selection", in fact, far from being a refutal of "religious" doctrine, is a roper offshoot of it, its offspring. In fact as I said previously, it is not science, it is ideology.
"Marek Glogoczowski THE SYNDROME OF "BLIND WATCHMAKER"
Abstract Few decades ago the German philosopher Martin Heidegger observed that Wissenshaft denkt nicht - the (staff of) science does not think. To this pertinent remark it is worth adding a more recent opinion of the English sociologist Michael Thompson who claims that in Life Sciences we witness a systematic channeling of enquiry
in order to impel knowledge ever further from the truth. An even more radical
critique of contemporary science was formulated by the well-known American
linguist Noam Chomsky. He observes that present social and scientific theories
are mere tools of pillage and enslavement - both of Nature and Society - by
liberalo-criminal ?elites? who are motivated in their behaviour to a large
extend by social teachings of the Old Testament. The author of the present
dissertation follows the path traced by these researchers who are critically
disposed to the present reality. He demonstrates up to which point the Holy
Scriptures - which especially in Anglosaxon countries are still taken as the
source of wisdom and ethics - have influenced the development of modern concepts
of biology. A precise, methodological analysis shows that subsequent, historical
stages of the evolution of the Darwinian - and than neo-Darwinian and
ultra-Darwinian - thought are ?adaptive mutations? of an antique MEME (Memory
Eradicating and Mind Emptying) virus. This spontaneously self-replicating
?cultural virus?, which postulates an ex nihilo origin of the world and life,
was introduced into the Old Testament already during the Babylonian (about 5
B.C.) period of Bible completion. At present, this inherited from the deep
Antiquity MEME virus is at the origin of a specific cognitive illness of our
life sciences, which illness schould be named the Blind Watchmaker Syndrome
(BWS). In order to liberate our minds from the cognitive cataract provoked by
the (post)modern invasion of class meme (creatio ex nihilo) cultural viruses,
the author proposes a cleaning up of minds by the standard method of logical
reasoning supported by conclusions drawn from elementary physics........"Salaam
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Peace, Man of Faith.
Science is not always right and there are many uncertainties regarding creation. Despite this we cannot argue that there has not been an evolution, but spiritualists believe this is controlled by God in one way or another. The direction of evolution is believed to be controlled by the one referred to as God.
Religion does not mean you have to disregard the evolution or the things which can be proved by science. Religion on the other hand cannot be verified by science and has only to do with Faith. You cannot verify God because there are no ways to prove the existence with the instruments or measurements available. It has only to do with believe in the unseen.
Your individual life and experiences can lead to a Faith. But you cannot gauge God's doings because the force is invisible and not of this realm, to a believer.
Even in my religion the world is eternal, energy does not just disappear as you said. The same goes for the energy of a soul in my opinion.
Hope you respect my Faith and understand I am humbly accepting your critical eyes.
Indeed, I do respect your position. My argument was with those who propose that there was no evolutionary process, who propose that a mysterious "god" figure created everything out of nothing. If people want to claim that God guided evolution, then that's their prerogative to embrace that ideology. However, claiming that evolution is nonsensical due to Charles Darwin being "racist" is foolish at best... The ideas you presented with regard to the soul being a form or variation of 'energy' is very interesting, and this same idea has been propagated, in a sense, by the Hindus for a very long time - hence, their traditional view of transmigration (or reincarnation).
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, huruf.
I quote from the article cited at the beginning, which, funnily, says that Darwin'S survival of the fittest or its improved version "natural selection", in fact, far from being a refutal of "religious" doctrine, is a roper offshoot of it, its offspring. In fact as I said previously, it is not science, it is ideology.
"Marek Glogoczowski THE SYNDROME OF "BLIND WATCHMAKER"
Abstract Few decades ago the German philosopher Martin Heidegger observed that Wissenshaft denkt nicht - the (staff of) science does not think. To this pertinent remark it is worth adding a more recent opinion of the English sociologist Michael Thompson who claims that in Life Sciences we witness a systematic channeling of enquiry
in order to impel knowledge ever further from the truth. An even more radical
critique of contemporary science was formulated by the well-known American
linguist Noam Chomsky. He observes that present social and scientific theories
are mere tools of pillage and enslavement - both of Nature and Society - by
liberalo-criminal ?elites? who are motivated in their behaviour to a large
extend by social teachings of the Old Testament. The author of the present
dissertation follows the path traced by these researchers who are critically
disposed to the present reality. He demonstrates up to which point the Holy
Scriptures - which especially in Anglosaxon countries are still taken as the
source of wisdom and ethics - have influenced the development of modern concepts
of biology. A precise, methodological analysis shows that subsequent, historical
stages of the evolution of the Darwinian - and than neo-Darwinian and
ultra-Darwinian - thought are ?adaptive mutations? of an antique MEME (Memory
Eradicating and Mind Emptying) virus. This spontaneously self-replicating
?cultural virus?, which postulates an ex nihilo origin of the world and life,
was introduced into the Old Testament already during the Babylonian (about 5
B.C.) period of Bible completion. At present, this inherited from the deep
Antiquity MEME virus is at the origin of a specific cognitive illness of our
life sciences, which illness schould be named the Blind Watchmaker Syndrome
(BWS). In order to liberate our minds from the cognitive cataract provoked by
the (post)modern invasion of class meme (creatio ex nihilo) cultural viruses,
the author proposes a cleaning up of minds by the standard method of logical
reasoning supported by conclusions drawn from elementary physics........"You can call the theory of evolution by natural selection an "ideology" if you want. However, ultimately, that does nothing to substantiate your point. The concept of biological organisms coming into existence and development by the works of a "grand designer" can't be proven at all. Yet, all of the modern scientific evidence clearly points to natural selection as being the tool used to develop species. If the author of the article makes the presumption that there is a 'watchmaker' (in the words of Professor Richard Dawkins), then the same conclusion is drawn from a scientific perspective regarding him being 'blind'. If you're asserting that this 'watchmaker' is a living, thinking being, capable of using a vast amount of skill and intellect, then you'll have to prove this using verifiable evidence.
We can start with the question of locality and origination... Where is this god, and where did he come from? If everything must have a beginning, designer and purpose, then describe the facets of this god. How old is he, who designed him, and what is his purpose?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Why7 do you keep answering my messages and quoting me and then go off and talk about things I have not said at all, and invent what I say a answer what you invent and do not answer what I actually write?
If you want to have your way you do not need to go to all that trouble. Have it. I could not care loess about having it my way your way or the cat's way. So have it your way all for yourself. But you are completely missing the point and you seem not to be able to read what is written.
Salaam
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Peace Ahmad,
I find both the Buddhist and Hindu Faith to be really interesting actually. However, Buddhism suits my mindset best to be honest, but the fundamental idea of Hinduism is also interesting.
The spiritual approach is more prominent than in traditional Islam and that is more what Islam, or "God's religion", is about. Searching for an inner peace or balance is most important because that will lead you to become more peaceful outwards too.
People should think more deeply what the words of Islam really mean, ie symbolizing what. Islam, Muslim and Salam all come from the same root in Arabic and it suits the traditional Buddhist practices very well. I mean the meditation and focus on your soul development.
People are usually a bit narrow-minded unfortunately. And they preach the religion, but forget proper conduct as according to a mind in a permanent meditative state. Most of us do, and it is why I think few are qualifying for a perfect harmony and to continue to the next world. The Hindus have a good word for it, but I have forgot what it was. It is when you are not reborn again, in their faith.
For example, you annoy the crap out of people here with your provoking remarks and people must restrain themselves. I try to control myself and see objectively on what you have uttered and rationally and logically reply to you to the best of my ability. Still you only say what is on your mind and what is your opinion although very determined words, and you ask intelligent questions for the most part as far as I am concerned.
I see through the clouds, I think, and I can see you as a man who believes in something, but not right knowing what it is. Am I right?
You are very picky and you want absolutely utterly rational and logical answers to your own questions you carry inside of you, right?
You are not satisfied with what the common world religions and their beliefs have to offer. You search for answers beyond them, yes?
Basically, you are right, God's religion is not bound to a religion with an invented name. The present religious groups, including Quran alone / God alone, are too isolated in their spectrum of ideas and do not see beyond the Quran, it has become their idol instead of the Message, a universal one present in several "religions".
Islam is not a religion in that regard, and the Bible does not say what Believers are called, Christian is an invented name and Judaism is not mentioned either. Muslim is a definition which could be used in any religion and it means to meditate and concentrate that you live constantly in a state of prayer and get a soul balance so you have an inner peace within you helping you in your behavior with other human beings (souls).
So there really exists no religion. However, Quran with its Arabic talks about "Deen" or a way of life, which is true, so you can erase religion altogether from the map.
Meditation (or Salat as it is also called) is the way to go. You can contact God's spirit through it, commonly called Holy Spirit in the Ibrahimic "religions". It truly is no hocus pocus. God can reside inside you to some extent, with spirits.
Or you can be an empty soul without God or meditation, living the life as the everyday human.
The "religions" are so severly misunderstood. It is sad actually. It is a huge focus on the individual soul we posses, the one inside your consciousness and you develop it best by becoming "deep" with meditation and reflection on yourself and how you can "increase your Karma".
Righteous deeds are of course bound to this "Karma" and can be all from a sincere smile to giving away all your money to help poor people.
Sorry, I feel this post got pretty much off-topic, I am sorry about that, but I somehow hope you find some of the words valuable for your personal development.
Note When I talk about God I do not exclusively talk about a specific God, just the good spirits which may portray God as one unit. Why do you think God say "We" in the Quran when it clearly is God who is the doer of something?
Perhaps His might is not restricted to one entity or why else would He say "We"? Still he says He does not need any help to accomplish anything, so He must be able to function in plural making it traditionally polytheistic.
If you worship "We" then it is traditionally polytheism, right?
I think, when God refers as "We" He means through spirits. How it works exactly is still beyond me, but I am searching for answers, especially through meditation.
When common religions, usally seen as polytheistic, talk about their spirits, as in the native American (Indian) religion, it may still not be "shirk" if you know what I mean?
Hope you found what I wrote valuable, maybe we should create another thread for this.
God bless you, or May the Force be with You
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Peace, Man of Faith.
That was an outstanding post, sir. Thanks for your input. I'm going to look more into the ideas you proposed, and perhaps we can start a new thread on that. Thanks again!
Peace,
Ahmad
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Shalom Aleikhem,
That's really not true at all, it's mostly speculation and conjecture. I suggest reading some books by people like Michael Behe and Stephen C. Meyer. I'm going to buy Meyers' newest book that will be published this June or July I believe.
This is also a great site in my view;
http//www.evolutionnews.org/
Can you please cite the peer reviewed scientific journals where these two individuals published their work destroying evolution via natural selection. I will be happy to see those works and will applaud when these 2 individuals get their nobel prizes for this achievement.
I am waiting for the peer reviewed scientific journals....
Peace
----------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem,
Can you please cite the peer reviewed scientific journals where these two individuals published their work destroying evolution via natural selection. I will be happy to see those works and will applaud when these 2 individuals get their nobel prizes for this achievement. )
I am waiting for the peer reviewed scientific journals....
Peace
----------------- Student of AllahSalaam,
Please have a look at the information here;
http//www.discovery.org/a/2640
http//www.evolutionnews.org/2012/02/intelligent_des056221.html