Like Polytheist ingrates, atheists too are running away from 19 like zebras
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This is so very clearly seen, that people are talking, mentioning, remembering, revering and worshipping their Rubbs.
Some are talking, revering, remembering, worshipping and serving Allah.
Some are revering, remembering, worshipping, serving,------and-----helplessly defending their mortal rubb, who has died and become dust into dust.
=================================================================
Did the Prophet and Messenger of Allah, Muhammad (SAW), the bringer and deliverer of Al-Quran, know Code 19-----???
No, never!-----Indeed, never!
This Satanic Code 19 Theory finally ended up taking out two of Allah's Signs, dared to alter Allah's Holy and Exalted Quran.
Is Allah's Quran not in Allah's Protection???
How can some satan insan or satan jinn intrude into it???
Who is a kafir of Allah, then???Edip Yuksel and all the 19ers!-------Tell!
If someone follows Allah's Quran truly,---and never happens to know the so-called "miraculous" Code 19 all his life, what harms does he come to???
Is he lost?
Will he go to hellfire?The differnce between Al-Quran and Code 19 is clear.
It looks like Al-Quran---Vs---Code 19!!!Question Excluding the code 19 of the Quran was Muhammad aware of any of the other Mathematical and Scientific signs in the Quran?
Am I to assume that you also believe that this is the work of the devil since Muhammad never mentioned them???
PS Before you commit bigotry against God?s Signs examine them carefully. Look before you leap. Those who make fun of God?s signs without first examining them carefully have mocked God and they will not be successful in this life nor in the Hereafter.
3010 Then the end of those who did evil was evil, that is because they denied God's signs, and they used to mock them.
Questions to ask about Sura 9
How many people have ever asked themselves why is it that Sura 9 is the ONLY SURA THAT DOESN?T START WITH BISMILLAH-IR-RAHMAN-IR-RAHEEM?
Here?s a food for thought Did God know before hand that this Sura was going to be tampered with which is why he decided not to begin with the usually BISMILLAH?
Historically why is it that during the compilation of the Quran that Sura 9 was recognized by many witnesses as having only 127 verses and not 129 verses (which was only acknowledged by ONE MAN. ) ?
How can Sura 9 be a Medinan Sura yet contain two Meccan Verses? (9128-129)
http//www.submission.org/false-verses.html
http//www.submission.org/tampering.html
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Question Excluding the code 19 of the Quran was Muhammad aware of any of the other Mathematical and Scientific signs in the Quran?
Am I to assume that you also believe that this is the work of the devil since Muhammad never mentioned them???
Strawman and leading argument.
You base the premise that Code 19 is a sign from Allah, when Allah is clear that the Quran is His sign.
No where in the Quran does it state to follow or uphold a mathematic code.
You cannot prove otherwise.PS Before you commit bigotry against God?s Signs examine them carefully. Look before you leap. Those who make fun of God?s signs without first examining them carefully have mocked God and they will not be successful in this life nor in the Hereafter.
3010 Then the end of those who did evil was evil, that is because they denied God's signs, and they used to mock them.
No one is mocking Allah. Disbelief in teachings of satans does not equate to mocking Allah. It is in upholding the deen of Al-Islam, by following only what Allah revealed, that we are proving our belief.
Those who uphold what Allah revealed, and do not follow guardians beside Him, are doing exactly what Allah commands. Surah 73Questions to ask about Sura 9
How many people have ever asked themselves why is it that Sura 9 is the ONLY SURA THAT DOESN?T START WITH BISMILLAH-IR-RAHMAN-IR-RAHEEM?
How does understanding why Surah 9 does not start with an unnumbered Bismillah help you in doing good deeds?
How does any of what you speak of help you in serving Allah? Can you understand the Quran without your Code 19?You have not responded to anything brought forth that refutes your statements concerning Rashad Khalifa and his disciple Edip Yuksel.
Here?s a food for thought Did God know before hand that this Sura was going to be tampered with which is why he decided not to begin with the usually BISMILLAH?
Where is your proof Surah 9 was to be tampered with? Because Allah is clear Falsehood will not enter the Quran in the past or the future. Surah 4142
"falsehood comes not to it from before it nor from behind it; a sending down from One All-wise, All-laudable." Surah 4142
You are saying Allah did not protect the Quran as He promised.
Who is the one mocking Allah's signs when they say Allah did not do as He promised?His
torically why is it that during the compilation of the Quran that Sura 9 was recognized by many witnesses as having only 127 verses and not 129 verses (which was only acknowledged by ONE MAN. ) ?
Where is your proof from the Quran that Surah 9 is corrupt?
Allah stated falsehood would never enter it. You say falsehood did, and was there for 1400 years. Where is your proof?
Bring your proof. Explanation is not proof.
If you cannot bring proof Allah was unable to protect the Quran for 1400 years, why do you say that which you cannot prove?How can Sura 9 be a Medinan Sura yet contain two Meccan Verses? (9128-129)
http//www.submission.org/false-verses.html
http//www.submission.org/tampering.htmlWait, now you believe Masjid Al-Haram is in Mecca now?
Or do you continue to uphold that Jerusalem is Masjid Al-Haram?
Which is it today?Further, where is your proof Surah 9 was revealed in Medina? Bring proof from the Quran, not hadith, to prove this claim.
Surah 9 discusses the treaties made at Masjid Al-Haram in Surah 97
"How should the idolaters have a covenant with God and His Messenger? -- excepting those with whom you made covenant at the Holy Mosque (almasjidi alharami); so long as they go straight with you, do you go straight with them; surely God loves the godfearing." Surah 97
The fight against the disbelievers who continue to oppose Allah and His Messenger begins after the 4 months of peace. Surah 91-5
They are in Masjid Al-Haram at this time.
After the Prophet (pbuh) and the believers settled in Mecca, the disbelievers who were dispersed broke their oaths and attempted to expel the Prophet again. They had 4 months of peace before the fighting began. Read Surah 9 again, as you will see they are in Masjid Al-Haram at that time, and those who were behind the expulsion the first time"Will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and purposed to expel the Messenger, beginning the first time against you? Are you afraid of them? You would do better to be afraid of God, if you are believers." Surah 913
The disbelievers who fought the Prophet (pbuh) before their entrance to Masjid Al-Haram prevented their entering with their sacrifice. They broke their oaths and attempted to expel the Prophet (pbuh) from Masjid Al-Haram, as stated in Surah 913
Who do you think Masjid Al-Qiblatain - the Mosque of Two Qiblahs - was built as a place of expectation for?"And those who have taken a mosque in opposition and unbelief, and to divide the believers, and as a place of ambush for those who fought God and His Messenger aforetime -- they will swear 'We desired nothing but good'; and God testifies they are truly liars." Surah 9107
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masjid_al-Qiblatain
Masjid Al-Qiblatain is in Medina.
Your continued posting of teachings from men continues to turn you in circles. On one day you say Jerusalem is our qiblah and Masjid Al-Haram is not in Mecca, while on another day you say the Prophet (pbuh) was expelled from Mecca, not Petra.
I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I want you to understand how upholding teachings of man only twists you about so you cannot state clearly what it is you are upholding.?Nay! We cast the truth against the falsehood, so that it breaks its head, and lo! it vanishes; and woe to you for what you describe;? Surah 2118
Read the Quran. Turn to Allah for guidance and explanation. He will sort this out for you.
Peace.
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It is very very much clear, like daylight,-----that some people believe in Allah and His Exalted Quran.
And some people believe in a mortal god and his Code 19 theory, and make it a part of Allah's Deen.
Yes, a mortal god, who died and became dust into dust, and One Day he will questioned.
Allah never revealed Code 19 for The Guidance of the mankind.
Allah never commanded us to find Code 19 from His Exalted Quran.There is the Big Bang theory in Al-Quran. Some people found it after scientific study, but Allah never commanded us to find out the Big Bang theory from Al-Quran to prove that Al-Quran is Allah's Quan.
Even if someone does not know the Big Bang theory is in Al-Quran, but follows Allah's Quran, he will be forgiven.
Allah revealed His Truth for the people to become truthful by following The Only Truth in the universe.
But not knowing the Code 19, one is not lost.-----So simple!---So somple!-----Again, so simple!
Allah is Hyu Qyoom.
Khalifa is dead and has become food of the insects.Allah will question.
And we will be questioned.Should we follow Who will question?
Or
Should we follow who will be questioned?
We should fear Allah,---and not Rashad Khalifa.
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Peace be unto you, TruthBehindIt,
May Allah pour down blessings upon you and yours from Most High.
There is the Big Bang theory in Al-Quran. Some people found it after scientific study, but Allah never commanded us to find out the Big Bang theory from Al-Quran to prove that Al-Quran is Allah's Quran.
Even if someone does not know the Big Bang theory is in Al-Quran, but follows Allah's Quran, he will be forgiven.
This is Truth.
Allah revealed His Truth for the people to become truthful by following The Only Truth in the universe.
But not knowing the Code 19, one is not lost.-----So simple!---So simple!-----Again, so simple!
Allah is Hyu Qyoom.
Khalifa is dead and has become food of the insects.Allah will question.
And we will be questioned.Should we follow Who will question?
Or
Should we follow who will be questioned?
We should fear Allah,---and not Rashad Khalifa.
Teachings all found in the Quran.
Allah guides the believers.May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace and blessings.
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I assume that the person who wrote you is aware that you have published his email on here and he is ok about that?
peaceRana, is this a question of ethics or law or both?
Where did you get the idea that his email was private and should not be shared with others?Peace,
Edip -
Where is your proof from the Quran that Surah 9 is corrupt?
Allah stated falsehood would never enter it. You say falsehood did, and was there for 1400 years.Here again... Without ever thinking on the difference between the Quran and Manuscript, without ever thinking on the fact that many manuscripts of the Quran contain errors, missing words, extra words, missing pages, extra pages, and some manuscripts were destroyed and burned...
Furthermore, the Raging... does not even think this fact
We used to believe like you; we used to be shallow like you.
But, our understanding of the verses you are referring to is very different than your understanding. We know your understanding, since once we were at the same station. But, I wonder whether you know our understanding. I wonder whether you wonder how we reconsile those verses with our claims regarding 9128-129.
If my past debates with people like you is any measure; you will not attept to learn our reasoning. You will only repeat what you have learned from mullahs, clerics and your parents without questioning them.
Peace,
Edip -
Here again... Without ever thinking on the difference between the Quran and Manuscript, without ever thinking on the fact that many manuscripts of the Quran contain errors, missing words, extra words, missing pages, extra pages, and some manuscripts were destroyed and burned...
Your own words bear witness that you believe corruption entered the Quran. You strive to make a difference between 'The Quran' and 'manuscript', but you cannot bring proof of this claim nor are you able to refute the teaching from Allah that falsehood will not enter it, in the past or in the future.
You say falsehood entered it in the past. Allah says it will not, ever.
I believe Allah.Furthermore, the Raging... does not even think this fact
We used to believe like you; we used to be shallow like you.
But, our understanding of the verses you are referring to is very different than your understanding. We know your understanding, since once we were at the same station. But, I wonder whether you know our understanding. I wonder whether you wonder how we reconsile those verses with our claims regarding 9128-129.
If my past debates with people like you is any measure; you will not attept to learn our reasoning. You will only repeat what you have learned from mullahs, clerics and your parents without questioning them.
Peace,
EdipBut you cannot bring proof to support your claims nor can you refute the clear proofs given. So you run - like a zebra - when teachings found only in the Quran are brought.
"Falsehood comes not to it from before it nor from behind it; a sending down from One All-wise, All-laudable." Surah 4142
You are saying that falsehood has come to the Quran, Edip Yuksel. I am not saying that. I am not striving to make a false Code work by upholding hadith.
Allah tells us there is no doubt in the Quran, He tells us falsehood won't enter it. I am not the man uttering a lie against Allah by saying He didn't protect the Quran for 1400 years. I am not the man upholding hadith that teaches falsehood entered the Quran. You are the one exceeding the limits, Edip Yuksel.
Bring proof from the Quran or keep silent. It's wiser.None of this came from a Mullah, a Cleric, or my Parents. My Parents are disbelievers Trinitarian Christian and Agnostic. I am a revert to Al-Islam. Why do you think Allah gave me knowledge of what is in the previous Books? It was in reading the entire Bible that I was led from pagan idolatry and guided to Al-Islam by Allah.
Why do you think He showed me Malachi 45 that names this 'Messenger of the Covenant' and it isn't Rashad Khalifa?
I used to be like you, until Allah showed me to stop serving man and to serve only Him.Clerics and Mullahs do not teach serving Allah alone. Clerics and Mullahs do not use proofs from the Quran to refute your falsehood. Clerics and Mullahs uphold hadith, just as you do, Edip Yuksel.
You follow a man who claimed he was receiving revelation from Allah. The same man who you admit made numerous mistakes in his teachings, yet you uphold the fallible Code that is proven wrong by the unaltered Quran.You cannot refute these clear proofs from the Quran, so you are running away 'like a zebra' from the pure, protected revelation of Allah. Your own words return to haunt you now, Edip Yuksel.
You attempt to Invalidate and Insult; you attack the characteristics or authority of the writer without addressing the substance of the argument. Proof against you that you have nothing to refute the revelation of Allah that proves you wrong. You have no argument, so you resort to the lowest form of rhetoric.http//24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6b9heXpZC1qb2qxro1_500.jpg
You made your choice. Allah will deal with you. But don't expect me to believe anything you say when you cannot bring proof from the Quran to support your fabrications. Explanation is not proof.
Pay heed, Edip Yuksel Replace the two ayats into the Quran, before your appointed term is up. Allah will call you to account for what you do.
"Those who conceal what of the Book God has sent down on them, and sell it for a little price - they shall eat naught but the Fire in their bellies; God shall not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection neither purify them; there awaits them a painful chastisement." Surah 2174
Clear proofs are given that you follow teachings unauthorized by Allah. If you continue to do so until your appointed term, then you have made your choice. Enjoy this life. Surah 1430
Peace.
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Rana, is this a question of ethics or law or both?
Where did you get the idea that his email was private and should not be shared with others?Peace,
EdipFrom the following I got the idea that it COULD be a personal email that he sent to you. I don't know if it was or if it "should not be shared with others" hence my question.
"From James Randi <randi></randi>
Date Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1006 PM
Subject 19 -- or any other number
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Tell us what is nineteen about the shortest chapter 108 and what prevents flipping it with chapter 103?
chv ltrs words
1031 6 1
1032 14 4
1033 51 91081 15 3
1082 12 3
1083 15 4We are waitng for ur answer ZEBRA...dont run away this time...we wont eat you
http//img.webme.com/pic/7/77depo/ze.jpg
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"And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did." Surah 6108
Let's keep it civil and clean, believers. Let us not exceed the limits and add burden to our own souls.
May Allah pour down patience upon the believers from Most High.
Peace.
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What is the impact of excluding 9128 and 9129 in our lives, faith, practice. Is there any extremist subject / practice referred there in these 2 verses which does not fit the faith of certain people therefore they advocate deleting those 2 verses from Quran.
Most of the people here are apparently knowledgeable and therefore this question would be irrelevant for them or sound stupid for them, but it is important for my understanding so please let me understand what's the real problem in including 9128 and 9129? Or is it just proposed to be excluded by Code 19ers for the sake of inconsistency in their number crunching? Apologies to all if anything causes any offence to anyone. Please accept it as my lack of knowledge and let me understand the real problem with your help.
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What is the impact of excluding 9128 and 9129 in our lives, faith, practice...
...what's the real problem in including 9128 and 9129?
Or is it just proposed to be excluded by Code 19ers for the sake of inconsistency in their number crunching?Their Code 19 does not work with those two ayats in the Quran. Rashad Khalifa printed a Quran translation in 1981 that contained the correct number of ayats in Surah 9. It was discovered that the count was off due to his reliance on an Index count that was off by one. In 1982 he printed a book 'Qur'an Visual Presentation of the Miracle'. In this publication he gave the list of all the chapters and all the verses containing 'Allah' in the Quran. He lists
Chapter One and Verse Number One as Count Number 1. (Which proves he counted the opening 'Bismillah' as early as 1981.)
Chapter One and Verse Number Two as Count Number 2. (Which proves he did not start the count here.)
One Allah instead of Two for Verse 15 of Chapter 9.
One Allah in Verse 129 (which he later deleted) of Chapter 9.Which means they run into a problem. The hadith (sayings) of Rashad's disciples is that he put the words into a computer by his own hand to derive the count. Edip Yuksel has this in his own Quran translation on page 535, which also states he assisted in this discovery. This is upheld by the acknowledgement by Rashad to those who helped, and Edip Yuksel is named - found on page 636 of Rashad's translation.
Problem is, if he (they) put these into a computer, he (they) would not have miscounted the number, and would not be relying on an earlier Index. But the count is off in Rashad's first translation, and it is off in the supplemental book, and it matches the earlier Index count of 2698.The Arabic revelation contains 2699 counts of 'Allah'. 2699 is not divisible by 19.
Which means Edip and Rashad both knew the count was off, but instead of correcting the mistake they sought to hide it; cover up the Truth. They turned to hadith and found a story that suited their purpose. Problem is, they have no proof the man this story is attributed to even existed as he is not named in the Quran.
They compound the lie.
The followers of Rashad say the Quran that is with Allah is protected, but the manuscripts are not. They claim this is proven by Surah 8521-22"Nay, but it is a glorious Koran, in a guarded tablet (lawhin)." Surah 8521-22
This only increases their problem as every reference to (lawhin) in the Quran is of a physical object in the hands of men - the Prophets Allah gave revelation to. Surah 7145, 7150, 7154, 5413, 8521-22
"And We wrote for him on the Tablets (al-alwahi) of everything an admonition, and a distinguishing of everything 'So take it forcefully, and command thy people to take the fairest of it. I shall show you the habitation of the ungodly." Surah 7145
"And when Moses returned to his people, angry and sorrowful, he said, 'Evilly have you done in my place, after me; what, have you outstripped your Lord's commandment?' And he cast down the Tablets (al-alwaha), and laid hold of his brother's head, dragging him to him. He said, 'Son of my mother, surely the people have abased me, and well nigh slain me. Make not my enemies to gloat over me, and put me not among the people of the evildoers." Surah 7150
"And when Moses' anger abated in him, he took the Tablets (al-alwaha) and in the inscription of them was guidance, and mercy unto all those who hold their Lord in awe." Surah 7154
"And We bore him upon a well-planked (alwahin) vessel well-caulked" Surah 5413The only thing you can write on that shares attributes you make into an ark is wood.
Wood pulp makes paper, layered sheets (planks) making a book - a manuscript.The Book is with Allah, and the Quran is part of it. The previous revelations are all pages (suhufan) of the Book Surah 20133, 5336, 7452, 8010-13, 8718-19, 981-4
?And they say Why does he not bring to us a sign from his Lord? Has not there come to them a clear evidence of what is in the previous pages?" Surah 20133
"The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolaters would never leave off; till the Clear Sign came to them, a Messenger from God, reciting pages (suhufan) purified, therein true Books. And they scattered not, those that were given the Book, excepting after the Clear Sign came to them." Surah 981-4They try to attribute Surah 981-4 with Rashad, saying the Messenger from Allah is Rashad Khalifa, as this further refutes the claim of falsehood entering the Quran.
But the teachings of Rashad Khalifa are erroneous, full of contradictions. Even Edip Yuksel took the time to point them out in his Quran translation on page 547. Edip uses an (x) to denote the contradictions.Allah also refutes the accusations of forgery
"Or do they say, 'He has forged it'? Say 'Then bring you ten suras the like of it, forged; and call upon whom you are able, apart from God, if you speak truly.'
Then, if they do not answer you, know that it has been sent down with God's knowledge, and that there is no god but He. So have you surrendered?" Surah 1113-14
"Or do they say, 'He has forged it'? Say 'If I have forged it, upon me falls my sin; and I am quit of the sins you do.'" Surah 1135They will be called to account for their deeds, as every person will.
All knowledge is from Allah, who increases it to whom He wills.
All praise is due to Allah, Lord of all beings. Him do I serve, and Him alone do I beseech for help.Peace.
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Their Code 19 does not work with those two ayats in the Quran. Rashad Khalifa printed a Quran translation in 1981 that contained the correct number of ayats in Surah 9. It was discovered that the count was off due to his reliance on an Index count that was off by one. In 1982 he printed a book 'Qur'an Visual Presentation of the Miracle'.
Does it mean that instead of concluding that Code 19 formula was inconsistent, they concluded that Quran is incorrect?? Really?? So, they deleted 2 verses from Quran for that reason?? Sorry, I am still confused! I thought that there must be something inconsistent in those 2 verses (Compared to the teaching of Quran as a whole) therefore a group / sect proposed to delete those verses? Do you mean to say (sorry for putting words in others' mouth) that these verses have no conceptual problem for 19ers or others; the verses were challenged due to statistical inconsistency?
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So much misinformation and ignorant remarks are posted here about 19 and related issues....
About 15 years ago, I addressed many of the distortions and misinformation on this issue. I invite anyone who has sincere interest in the subject matter to read my letter to Signs Magazine, at
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/signs.htm
Peace,
Edip -
Peace Edip,
Those who choose not to believe in God?s signs will wish that they had believed in it in the hereafter. They have mocked God, and have ridiculed his signs. In addition some have already done so without first examining his signs carefully (A character that is unbecoming of one who would call themselves servants of God.)Those who have done so are not guided. Even if you show them countless of signs they will not believe because most of them want God?s signs to be of there own choosing. Who can argue with such people? They?re arrogance have already sealed there faith. I will wait till the day of resurrection when God will handle all disputes. We shall see who was on the right path and who wasn?t. But mark my words those who have mocked God signs willfully will be lead further astray in this life and will not succeed in the hereafter.
They ridicule, laugh and make derision of God?s signs yet up till now they cannot construct a book like the Quran with similar signs. Common sense is not common.
Sura 1788 Say, "If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Quran like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another."
I also find it rather ironic that some of the rejectors claim to believe in ?the other quran miracles? (for example everyone should know by now that the word yawm (day) occurs 365 times in the Quran) yet when it comes to IMPORTANT WORDS like ?the Quran? , ?God? (AND STRUCTURES of the QURAN) for example the number of suras ,the number of verses all of which occur in multiples of 19 they will not acknowledge them. They would rather acknowledge the smaller signs than acknowledge the larger signs in the Quran. Why? Maybe it is because they don?t like the person who discovered them. They don?t like the fact that he was human being and claimed to be a messenger. I?m beginning to see that the rejectors will never believe in a human messenger. Even if he brings proof. If Muhammad , Lot or Noah were here today they would be one of first to reject them.
Question for the rejectors What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Suras???? Give me a better meaning/interpretation than what the code has clearly shown already. I have been waiting for the past few days yet no one has given me a good response
PS Those who say that they (auspicious letters) have no meaning should also say ?God made a mistake? . I am still waiting for someone from among the rejectors to give me a response. Put your minds together and give me a structured response WITH PROOF.
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Peace,
We are waitng for ur answer ZEBRA...dont run away this time...we wont eat you
He never answers a straight simple question only posts a link to a rant and runs away.
About 15 years ago, I addressed many of the distortions and misinformation on this issue. I invite anyone who has sincere interest in the subject matter to read my letter to Signs Magazine, at
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/signs.htm
Edip, again show code on shortest ch 108 and what prevents flipping with ch 103?
Answer which words bother you in 9128-129 and reason you discard two verses?Their Code 19 does not work with those two ayats in the Quran.
Their code does not work period, even without two verses there is nothing only a few more multiples. There is no consistent pattern, statistically insignificant, one can find infinity of such multiples with any text.
The Arabic revelation contains 2699 counts of 'Allah'. 2699 is not divisible by 19.
Of course, 2699 is a prime and not divisible by any number only by 1 and itself.
Does it mean that instead of concluding that Code 19 formula was inconsistent, they concluded that Quran is incorrect?? Really?? So, they deleted 2 verses from Quran for that reason?? Sorry, I am still confused! I thought that there must be something inconsistent in those 2 verses (Compared to the teaching of Quran as a whole) therefore a group / sect proposed to delete those verses? Do you mean to say (sorry for putting words in others' mouth) that these verses have no conceptual problem for 19ers or others; the verses were challenged due to statistical inconsistency?
They went about mindlessly fudging the text, excluding/including, deleting verses, changing the text, hunting for multiples and getting a buzz, their lives revolve around a freaking number, look at their pseudos and avatars, reporting anything that was a multiple 5% skipping 95% that were none hits; examples
7430 nine ten (i.e. nineteen) gv = 4006070400 70300200 not multiple!
Ch 68 there are 132 not multiple!
They spelled it thus created a new initial total 98 not multiple!
Total merciful 115 not multiple!
They ignorantly remove 9128-129 saying how can the messenger be merciful? Qur'an is clear...4829 Muhammad messenger of Allah and those who with him firm against the unappreciative and (plural of merciful) among themselves?
1724 and lower to them wing humility of the mercy
654 and when come to you those who believe in our verses so say, "Peace upon you, your Lord has prescribed upon Himself the mercy that he who among you does evil in ignorance furthermore repents after it and reforms then indeed He oft-forgiving, merciful
655 and thus We explain the Verses so that becomes manifest way the criminals.Question for the rejectors What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Suras????
Since you're posting questions to Edip et al, perhaps also ask why there are 29?
Give me a better meaning/interpretation than what the code has clearly shown already. I have been waiting for the past few days yet no one has given me a good response
The code has shown absolutely NOTHING, see earlier post....
Before inviting people to fitna, why don't study yourself thoroughly answer questions posted earlier?
Kevin, if you want to discuss the initialed chapters start a new thread after searching the forum and let Edip answer the questions posted to him and not run away as he titled this thread like a zebra.
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Does it mean that instead of concluding that Code 19 formula was inconsistent, they concluded that Quran is incorrect?? Really??
Yes. They believe falsehood entered the Quran. They use hadith to uphold this teaching
Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 511
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit
"Abu Bakr sent for me and said, "You used to write the Divine Revelations for Allah's Apostle So you should search for (the Qur'an and collect) it." I started searching for the Qur'an till I found the last two Verses of Surat At-Tauba with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari and I could not find these Verses with anybody other than him."http//www.quran-islam.org/userfiles/image/objection%20of%20Ali%20-%2014.jpg
Source Al-Itqaan Fee Ulum Al-Quran, by Jalaluddin Al-Suyuty, Al-Azhareyyah Press, Cairo, Egypt, 1318 AH, page 59So, they deleted 2 verses from Quran for that reason?? Sorry, I am still confused! I thought that there must be something inconsistent in those 2 verses (Compared to the teaching of Quran as a whole) therefore a group / sect proposed to delete those verses? Do you mean to say (sorry for putting words in others' mouth) that these verses have no conceptual problem for 19ers or others; the verses were challenged due to statistical inconsistency?
As proven in replies on this thread, the teachings found in Surah 9128-129 are taught elsewhere in the Quran. Allah repeats His Messages.
"And thus do We repeat the signs and that they may say You have read; and that We may make it clear to a people who know." Surah 6105
"Now there has come to you a Messenger from among yourselves; grievous to him is your suffering; anxious is he over you, gentle to the believers, compassionate.
So if they turn their backs, say 'God is enough for me. There is no god but He. In Him I have put my trust. He is the Lord of the Mighty Throne.'" Surah 9128-129"as also We have sent among you, of yourselves, a Messenger, to recite Our signs to you and to purify you, and to teach you the Book and the Wisdom, and to teach you that you knew not." Surah 2151
"We know indeed that it grieves thee the things they say; yet it is not thee they cry lies to, but the evildoers - it is the signs of God that they deny. " Surah 633
"Yet perchance, if they believe not in this tiding, thou wilt consume thyself, following after them, of grief." Surah 186
"those to whom the people said, 'The people have gathered against you, therefore fear them', but it increased them in faith, and they said, 'God is sufficient for us; an excellent Guardian is He.'" Surah 3173
"If thou askest them, 'Who created the heavens and the earth?' they will say, 'God.' Say 'What think you? That you call upon apart from God -- if God desires affliction for me, shall they remove His affliction? Or if He desires mercy for me, shall they withhold His mercy?' Say 'God is enough for me; in Him all those put their trust who put their trust.'" Surah 3938
"and lower to them the wing of humbleness out of mercy and say; 'My Lord, have mercy upon them, as they raised me up when I was little.'" Surah 1724
"Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. Thou seest them bowing, prostrating, seeking bounty from God and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage." Surah 4829
Those who seek to uphold Code 19 need ask themselves
"What, is it not sufficient for them that We have sent down upon thee the Book that is recited to them? Surely in that is a mercy, and a reminder to a people who believe." Surah 2951Take note Edip Yuksel and his followers are unable to refute the proofs from the Quran.
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.
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So much misinformation and ignorant remarks are posted here about 19 and related issues....
Then refute them.
Bring clear proofs from the Quran that prove what is shown is misinformation and/or ignorant.If you cannot or will not, then it proves you have nothing to say and only utter false accusations against those who bring the Truth and clear proofs that refute the falsehood you teach.
You add burden of sin to your soul by uttering manifest calumnies against those who serve Allah and none other.Bring proof or keep silent, it's wiser.
Bring your proof Surah 2111, 657, 842, 1410, 2124, 2764, 2875, 5238
Explanation is not proof.Peace.
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Excluding SEid and Raging who are like frighten sheep and who foolishly and arrogantly choose to compare God's signs to a middling play with numbers does anyone else have an answer to my question.
What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed suras? Give me a better interpretation than what the code 19 has provided with physical evidence
Read http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/english/index.html
(Watch as the rejectors will say " So what ! It's a coincidence! " ) Question Would a person call a sign a coincidence when a similar sign occurs 100 or 200 times over?
So far the rejectors have not answered my question. Where are the answers?
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Excluding SEid and Raging who are like frighten sheep and who foolishly and arrogantly choose to compare God's signs to a middling play with numbers does anyone else have an answer to my question.
What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed suras? Give me a better interpretation than what the code 19 has provided with physical evidence.
One reason the initials are there is to lead those who disbelieve astray.
The disbelievers ascribe Gematria - Jewish mystic teachings of satans - to them.
"Gematria or gimatria (Hebrew , gmariyā is a system of assigning numerical value to a word or phrase, in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other, or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. It is likely that the term derives from the order of the Greek alphabet, gamma being the third letter of the Greek alphabet (gamma + tria). Alternatively, the word "gematria" is generally held to derive from Greek gemetri, "geometry", which was used as a translation of gmariy, though some scholars believe it to derive from Greek grammateia, rather; it's possible that both words had an influence on the formation of the Hebrew word. It has been extant in English since the 17th century from translations of works by Giovanni Pico della Mirandola. Although ostensibly derived from Greek, it is largely used in Jewish texts, notably in those associated with the Kabbalah."
Allah condemns practices of the satans in the Quran. Only those who disbelieve uphold these satanic teachings.
Pyramid University/Sorcery (alsshiru) of Egypt Surah 1077, 1081, 2071, 2649
Sahirin - magicians of Egypt Surah 7112, 1077-81, 2049-71, Exo. 7-8
Kabbalah/Sorcery (alsshiru) of Babylon Surah 2102, 451-52, 2073
Secret Societies Surah 587-22, 2102, 481, 4108, 4113, 978, 1747, 1530-40, 6123, 211-4, 26124-131, Zech. 1117
Diviners/soothsayers/astrologers Surah 451-52, 1516-18, 376-11, 5238-41, 675, 728-9Proof is given they uphold teachings of Jewish Mystics in their own Quran translations, reciting their source "'Studies in Jewish Mysticsm' (page 88, 1982)".
Rashad Khalifa in his translation admits this on page 636, Appendix 1.
Edip Yuksel in his translation admits this on page 544, Appendix 3.
Both men invite to teachings of satans Kabbalist teachings of sorcery and delusion.Taken from Code 19-Submitters website, proving their upholding Gematria and hadith
http//www.submission.org/suras/app25.htmlAl-Suyooty's ITQAAN, First Printing, 1318 AH, Vol 2, Page 10
"The Jews of Medina went to the Prophet and said, "Your Quran is initialed with A.L.M., and these Initials determine the life span of your religion. SinceA' is 1,L' is 30, andM' is 40, this means that your religion will survive only 71 years." Muhammad said, "We also have A.L.M.S." They said, "TheA' is 1, theL' is 30, theM' is 40, and theS' is 90. This adds up to 161. Do you have anything else?" The Prophet said, "Yes, A.L.M.R." They said, "This is longer and heavier; theA' is 1,L' is 30,M' is 40, and `R' is 200, making the total 271." They finally gave up, saying, "We do not know how many of these Initials he was given!" ""O believers, enter the peace, all of you, and follow not the steps of the satan; he is a manifest foe to you." Surah 2208
"So he led them on by delusion; and when they tasted the tree, their shameful parts revealed to them, so they took to stitching upon themselves leaves of the Garden. And their Lord called to them, 'Did not I prohibit you from this tree, and say to you, "Verily Satan is for you a manifest foe"?'" Surah 722
Forbidden Tree Surah 235, 2102, 719-22, 1760, 20120-121, 3762-64, 4443, 5652
The Tree of Life, the Tree of Immortality, the Sephiroth - where man becomes an immortal god Kabbalah.
"The Sephirot are united in the Divine view. Medieval Kabbalah describes the sin of Adam as introducing false separation between male Divine and female Shechina, by eating from the Tree of Knowledge before the Tree of Life, two aspects of the Sephirot."
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Albero_della_Vita_di_Davide_Tonato.jpg
I do not follow teachings of the satans. I reject Code 19 and strive to show what it truly is Teachings of sorcery and divination. Teachings of the satans.
Those who uphold Code 19 practice the craft of sorcery and divination. They will be among the losers in the Hereafter."and they follow what the Satans recited over Solomon's kingdom. Solomon disbelieved not, but the Satans disbelieved, teaching the people sorcery, and that which was sent down upon Babylon's two angels, Harut and Marut; they taught not any man, without they said, 'We are but a temptation; do not disbelieve.' From them they learned how they might divide a man and his wife, yet they did not hurt any man thereby, save by the leave of God, and they learned what hurt them, and did not profit them, knowing well that whoso buys it shall have no share in the world to come; evil then was that they sold themselves for, if they had but known." Surah 2102
The satans have no power over Allah?s servants Surah 1530-42
Allah did not make any mistakes. Allah neither errs nor forgets. Surah 482, 2052
Allah knows exactly what men need to believe, and to be led astray.
Proof is given.Peace.