Can we pray for others?
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Peace to all !
I'm sure many of us at times have been asked to pray for someone else. It is also a common belief (at least in 'traditional Islam' that one's offspring can pray for them - even after their death - in order to help rid them of sins pinned against them.
Are there any verses in the Quran that indicate this is possible?
At the moment, the end of chapter 6 comes to mind.
6164 - Say "Am I, then, to seek a sustainer other than God, when He is the Sustainer of all things?" And whatever any human being commits rests upon himself alone; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another's burden. And, in time, unto your Sustainer you all must return and then He will make you. understand all that on which you were wont to differ.
Any thoughts?
Peace.
"You have had a good example in Abraham, and those with him, when they said to their people, 'We are quit of you and that you serve, apart from God. We disbelieve in you, and between us and you enmity has shown itself, and hatred for ever, until you believe in God alone - except that Abraham said unto his father, 'Certainly I shall ask pardon for thee; but I have no power to do aught for thee against God.' 'Our Lord, in Thee we trust; to Thee we turn; to Thee is the homecoming." Surah 604
You can pray for their guidance and forgiveness while they yet live, but after their appointed term the reckoning is at hand. When they awake, they will be called to account for all they did - good and bad. There are no intercessors.
"They serve, apart from God, what hurts them not neither profits them, and they say, 'These are our intercessors with God.' Say 'Will you tell God what He knows not either in the heavens or in the earth?' Glory be to Him! High be He exalted above that they associate!" Surah 1018
"What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers." Surah 18102
"And repentance is not for those who go on doing evil deeds, until when death comes to one of them, he says Surely now I repent; nor those who die while they are unbelievers. These are they for whom We have prepared a painful chastisement." Surah 418
"So, when their Messengers brought them the clear signs, they rejoiced in what knowledge they had, and were encompassed by that they mocked at. Then, when they saw Our might, they said, 'We believe in God alone, and we disbelieve in that we were associating with Him.' But their belief when they saw Our might did not profit them -- the way of God, as in the past, touching His servants; then the unbelievers shall be lost" Surah 4083-85
"And when it is said to them, 'Come now, and God's Messenger will ask forgiveness for you,' they twist their heads, and thou seest them turning their faces away, waxing proud. Equal it is for them, whether thou askest forgiveness for them or thou askest not forgiveness for them; God will never forgive them. God guides not the people of the ungodly." Surah 635-6
We have this life to get it right. So study the Quran, spend out of what He provides you, and do good deeds. )
Life is a test Surah 20131, 672, 2155
Peace.
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This is nice
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This is nice
It is from the Quran.
Peace and blessings.
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"You have had a good example in Abraham, and those with him, when they said to their people, 'We are quit of you and that you serve, apart from God. We disbelieve in you, and between us and you enmity has shown itself, and hatred for ever, until you believe in God alone - except that Abraham said unto his father, 'Certainly I shall ask pardon for thee; but I have no power to do aught for thee against God.' 'Our Lord, in Thee we trust; to Thee we turn; to Thee is the homecoming." Surah 604
You can pray for their guidance and forgiveness while they yet live, but after their appointed term the reckoning is at hand. When they awake, they will be called to account for all they did - good and bad. There are no intercessors.
"They serve, apart from God, what hurts them not neither profits them, and they say, 'These are our intercessors with God.' Say 'Will you tell God what He knows not either in the heavens or in the earth?' Glory be to Him! High be He exalted above that they associate!" Surah 1018
"What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers." Surah 18102
"And repentance is not for those who go on doing evil deeds, until when death comes to one of them, he says Surely now I repent; nor those who die while they are unbelievers. These are they for whom We have prepared a painful chastisement." Surah 418
"So, when their Messengers brought them the clear signs, they rejoiced in what knowledge they had, and were encompassed by that they mocked at. Then, when they saw Our might, they said, 'We believe in God alone, and we disbelieve in that we were associating with Him.' But their belief when they saw Our might did not profit them -- the way of God, as in the past, touching His servants; then the unbelievers shall be lost" Surah 4083-85
"And when it is said to them, 'Come now, and God's Messenger will ask forgiveness for you,' they twist their heads, and thou seest them turning their faces away, waxing proud. Equal it is for them, whether thou askest forgiveness for them or thou askest not forgiveness for them; God will never forgive them. God guides not the people of the ungodly." Surah 635-6
We have this life to get it right. So study the Quran, spend out of what He provides you, and do good deeds. )
Life is a test Surah 20131, 672, 2155
Peace.
Peace, raginggaijin !
Thank you for your references. From what I understand, only the first and last ayah you have given show the idea of praying for others. Something I noticed however, is that both of those are prayers from prophets.
Is it possible only prophets were able to do this, and not ordinary followers? The other ayah seem to indicate that no one can intercede.
Peace.
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Peace, raginggaijin !
Thank you for your references. From what I understand, only the first and last ayah you have given show the idea of praying for others. Something I noticed however, is that both of those are prayers from prophets.
Is it possible only prophets were able to do this, and not ordinary followers?
Do you uphold the example of the Prophets (pbut) given in the Quran? I certainly strive to, as the Quran does not differentiate between Prophets, nor should we.
"Know thou therefore that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for thy sin, and for the believers, men and women. God knows your going to and fro, and your lodging." Surah 4719
"My Lord, forgive me and my parents and whosoever enters my house as a believer, and the believers, men and women alike; and do Thou not increase the evildoers save in ruin!'" Surah 7128
The other ayah seem to indicate that no one can intercede.
No one can. Only Allah is Judge, King, All Mighty, Forgiving, Merciful. He does not share authority, and everything happens according to His will.
"God there is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His Throne comprises the heavens and earth; the preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-high, the All-glorious." Surah 2255
Peace.
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Do you uphold the example of the Prophets (pbut) given in the Quran? I certainly strive to, as the Quran does not differentiate between Prophets, nor should we.
"Know thou therefore that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for thy sin, and for the believers, men and women. God knows your going to and fro, and your lodging." Surah 4719
"My Lord, forgive me and my parents and whosoever enters my house as a believer, and the believers, men and women alike; and do Thou not increase the evildoers save in ruin!'" Surah 7128
No one can. Only Allah is Judge, King, All Mighty, Forgiving, Merciful. He does not share authority, and everything happens according to His will.
"God there is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His Throne comprises the heavens and earth; the preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-high, the All-glorious." Surah 2255
Peace.
Good points. Thank you, raginggaijin. Your posts are always very informative and thorough.
Peace.
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Good points. Thank you, raginggaijin. Your posts are always very informative and thorough.
Peace.
Peace be unto you,
Don't thank me, thank Allah. All the knowledge I have is due to Him. All power is due to Him alone. )
Study the Quran diligently, and do not depend on my opinion. Allah is Guide, Friend to the believers.
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace and blessings.
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Peace to all !
I'm sure many of us at times have been asked to pray for someone else. It is also a common belief (at least in 'traditional Islam' that one's offspring can pray for them - even after their death - in order to help rid them of sins pinned against them.
Are there any verses in the Quran that indicate this is possible?
At the moment, the end of chapter 6 comes to mind.
6164 - Say "Am I, then, to seek a sustainer other than God, when He is the Sustainer of all things?" And whatever any human being commits rests upon himself alone; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another's burden. And, in time, unto your Sustainer you all must return and then He will make you. understand all that on which you were wont to differ.
Any thoughts?
Peace.
Noah prayed for his father, and so did Abraham. The Koran also tells us to pray for the believers before us. We are told to pray for our parents even after they are dead. However this won't benefit the disbelievers if thats what you are asking as the case with Abarahma and his father shows. God does not forgive shirk we are told.
As far as intercessors, that depends on who is doing the intercession adn for whom. The Koran makes clear that on judgement day there will be no intercessors over God. Its about authority. I don't think there is a dispute about this in this forum. There is however a dispute about asking the dead to intercede for you. In that there is dispute as many here see that as a form of worship that should be reserved to God only. But I do not see any dispute as far as praying for the dead. Its asking the dead for something by calling on them to intercede to God on your behalf thats is controversial.
Sunni call this Tawassul to the dead. The Wahhabis reject this and Abdul Wahhab accused the Sunnis and especially the Sufis of shirk. The whole Wahhabi movement came as a response to that. The Wahhabis rely on Ibn Thaymiya's fatwa that declared Tawassul to the dead as shirk.
I do not see shirk that way as shirk is something much graver.
A good video lecture about shirk and how it differs from monotheism reveals that shirk is something much, much graver. Hence why God does not forgive shirk.
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025#
Excellent video lecture and very informative. Outlines what shirk is.
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Noah prayed for his father, and so did Abraham. The Koran also tells us to pray for the believers before us. We are told to pray for our parents even after they are dead. However this won't benefit the disbelievers if thats what you are asking as the case with Abarahma and his father shows. God does not forgive shirk we are told.
As far as intercessors, that depends on who is doing the intercession adn for whom. The Koran makes clear that on judgement day there will be no intercessors over God. Its about authority. I don't think there is a dispute about this in this forum. There is however a dispute about asking the dead to intercede for you. In that there is dispute as many here see that as a form of worship that should be reserved to God only. But I do not see any dispute as far as praying for the dead. Its asking the dead for something by calling on them to intercede to God on your behalf thats is controversial.
Sunni call this Tawassul to the dead. The Wahhabis reject this and Abdul Wahhab accused the Sunnis and especially the Sufis of shirk. The whole Wahhabi movement came as a response to that. The Wahhabis rely on Ibn Thaymiya's fatwa that declared Tawassul to the dead as shirk.
I do not see shirk that way as shirk is something much graver.
A good video lecture about shirk and how it differs from monotheism reveals that shirk is something much, much graver. Hence why God does not forgive shirk.
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025#
Excellent video lecture and very informative. Outlines what shirk is.
Peace, Bigmo !
Awesome post, thank you, sir. Would you happen to have the ayah on hand in regards to, "We are told to pray for our parents even after they are dead."?
That would be great to add to my notes. I'll check to see if I can find it myself in the mean time.
May peace be with you.
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Also, does anyone know of any ayah that allow us to pray for Prophet Muhammad and/or convey peace to him?
It never really sat well with me that the exemplar of Muslims would need such things, but perhaps I overlooked some points.
Peace.
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Also, does anyone know of any ayah that allow us to pray for Prophet Muhammad and/or convey peace to him?
It never really sat well with me that the exemplar of Muslims would need such things, but perhaps I overlooked some points.
Peace.
Peace be with you,
Be warned about calling upon anyone. Those who are in the grave are dead, sleeping, and they do not hear anything.
"And those they call upon, apart from God, created nothing, and themselves are created, dead, not alive; and are not aware when they shall be raised." Surah 1621
"Say 'I call only upon my Lord, and I do not associate with Him anyone." Surah 7020
"The places of worship belong to God; so call not, along with God, upon anyone." Surah 7218
In Surah 3356, the Prophet (pbuh) was still alive and walking among the believers.
Peace.
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Peace, Bigmo !
Awesome post, thank you, sir. Would you happen to have the ayah on hand in regards to, "We are told to pray for our parents even after they are dead."?
That would be great to add to my notes. I'll check to see if I can find it myself in the mean time. )
May peace be with you.
Probably the best one I can find is this one
9.83-84 If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say "Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind." Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion.
This shows that the custom of visiting a grave and praying was done by the prophet. But here the Koran says do not do it for the hypocrites. It never said that the prophet should not do it for any theological reason. Here we see who we pray for matters.
40.7-9. Those who sustain the Throne (of Allah. and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire! "And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom. "And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement".
Even the angels pray for others. But for the believers. Not the disbelievers.
Also Abraham and Ismael praying for a future generation of people presumable their offsprings
2.127. And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer) "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing. "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. "Our Lord! send amongst them an Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
If you can pray for people who yet exist why can't you pray for people who existed and died? Anyways once a person is created and born he never dies. This was Jesus's answer to the Sadducees who rejected the after life. God is the God of the LIVING Abraham and Moses, Jesus said. Anotherwords, all both these prophets are alive and not dead. They just left this world.
Praying for the dead is not disputed here, but ASKING the dead to pray for us is. This is called Tawassul and some have equated with shirk. I do not believe that this is the shirk the Quran is talking about. The Koran is talking about those who ask other DEITIES and gods. Thats is how I define shirk.
Also from the Gospel when Jesus attacked the Pharisees
Mathew 23.29-30 ?Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ?If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.? 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
This was confirmed by the Koran which accused the Pharisees of killing the very prophets they claim to honor. Jesus never attacked the acts they were doing but their hypocrisy and mafia character of killing a man and being the first in his funeral with their alligator tears.
2.91. When it is said to them, "Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, "they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us" yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say "Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?"