Qiblah Argument: "Kanat"
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Salam all;
One of the questions in the "combat kit" which you may be familiar with
"Surah 2143 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. Does this not prove that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Qur?an?"
I had responded to this before, but an Arab-speaking Sunni did not address my points about "kanat" and 53, nor did he explain why believers in Alalh would find it hard to follow a qiblah already followed by those who received scriptures from the same God.
In short he simply provided the same interpretation as that presented in the question, without actually rebutting. It is not necessary to debunk him beyond showing that the question is not actually an "argument of death", but I would like an opinion on what I have written (especially about "kanat" since most translate it as "it was".
The example of subjunctiveness I got from
http//arabic.tripod.com/Verbs11.htm
RESPONSE
?The fools among the people will say What has turned them from their qiblah which they had? Say The East and the West belong only to Allah; He guides whom He likes to the right path.?
2142
?And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make the qiblah that which you formerly observed but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah will not make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.?
2143
?Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do.?
2144
It is important to note that the sequence from 2135 to 2145 refers to Jews and Christians. From this we see it is logical to assume that the ?fools? in 2142 refers either to the Jews and/or Christians (who see that Allah has changed their qiblah) or to spectators who see that Allah has changed the qiblah of Muhammad and expects People of the Book to follow. The phrase ?will say? in 2142 suggests that they will complain after the impending announcement of 2144.
2143 is likewise a prelude to 2144 in that it is preparing the Muslims for the commandment. ?We have not made the qiblah that which you formerly observed but that?? indicates that Allah has designated a new qiblah but has yet to confirm it. This is similar to 53 where Allah says that He has ?perfected the system? though there are still more rulings to come. The perfect verb ?perfected? was used at the beginning of the Sura, and it applies to the forthcoming commandments or else it should have been mentioned at the end of the last. According to 2144 the qiblah which Muhammad had once observed was the Sacred Mosque, but it is evident that this was his choice (2115, 2144). This explains why the Sacred Mosque is a qiblah which he would like (2144). It should be noted that ?Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven?? further indicates the freedom of choice which Muhammad enjoyed (though he had chosen another for strategic purposes).
?We did not make the qiblah?? in 2143 could be read as ?We have made the qiblah?? meaning that the new official qiblah (the Sacred Mosque) has been appointed as a test for believers. That is to say, Allah decided to appoint the qiblah so that He could expose the unbelievers. Obviously those who actually believed in Allah would have no trouble following a qiblah already followed by the People of the Book (who in theory follow the same God), thus the "former qiblah" would be Mecca. Note also that Jerusalem was the present qiblah at the time, so again it cannot be the "testing" qiblah referred to.
??this was surely hard for the believers?? could be translated as ?this is surely hard for the believers? because the Arabic word ?kanat? is a perfect verb employed in the subjunctive mood.
For instance, perfect verbs are often used for past tense, but in 18107 the same perfect verb is used in future tense. Perfect verbs can be used in the present and future tenses when included in hypothetical situations such as in 411 and 18107 (195 is another example where context must decide how it is rendered).
E.g.
sa"ub(a) "alay-h(i) ('a)l-'amr(u)
= (he/it) has been hard on him the matter (masc.)
Translation the matter has been hard on him
This was the indicative mood.sa"ub(a) "alay-h(i) ('a)l-'amr(u)
= (he/it) was hard on him the matter (masc.)
Translation the matter would be hard on him
This is the subjunctive mood.Since 2143 is talking of a commandment which has not come (2144), the situation is as hypothetical as that in 411 or 18107 (i.e. if people do not have enough faith, they will fail the test).
The phrase ?will say? (an imperfect verb) in 2142 confirms that the verse is talking of the future.
Thus, the test is ongoing and has not been decided since it has yet to be implemented, but the test itself is difficult such that believers will find it so. However, Allah will not let faith go unrewarded.
2144 begins with the word ?indeed? (qad) confirming that this ayah is the ?peak? of the build-up. The actual commandment to follow the Sacred Mosque as the official and permanent qiblah begins the great test.
It seems that Muhammad formerly sometimes or always observed the Sacred Mosque as his qiblah, but at some stage (perhaps after his disassociation with Mecca) he integrated with the People of the Book and changed it to Jerusalem. Evidence for their qiblah can be found in the Bible (for instance I Kings 22-44, II Chronicles 618-21, II Chronicles 712, 209;18, Daniel 610-11 and Jonah 24;7;2). This would have been a wise strategic decision, although in 2145 it is made clear that the People of the Book would have trouble accepting the new law.
Thanks for reading;
Salam.
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Here's an alternative that may be worth considering
2/142 Will say the foolish from the people, "What turned them from their focus , which they were upon?" Say, "For Allah (is) the east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a straight path."
The qiblah is defined in this verse. The focus is in fact a straight path. The fools here seemingly do not understand that a straight path consists of many duties/obligations and are confused when the believers move from one social obligation/agenda/plan of action to the next. This is supported by the start of the next verse that speaks of being a balanced community i.e. one that does not overly focus on one particular thing, but is well rounded.
2/143 And thus We made you a community balanced, for you will be witnesses over the people, and will be the messenger over you a witness. And We did not make the focus which you were upon except that We might make evident who would follow the messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.
The phrase of most interest of 2/143 is ?and We did not make the qiblah which you were upon except that We might make evident who would follow the messenger from who would turn back on his heels.?
The verb make does not necessarily mean "appoint" i.e. it does not denote some sort of explicit revelation/instruction. It can be understood as "Allah brought about" or "Allah willed", such as in the following examples
3/156 so Allah makes that a regret within their hearts
5/13 made their hearts hard
5/48 Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation
2/142 already defined the qiblah as a straight path. Allah is saying here that He made the straight path something difficult before, and this was to test who would follow the messenger and who wouldn't. Hence Allah qualifies this by saying only those who are guided can remain focussed on the straight path when it is difficult.
2/144 Indeed We see moving of your face in the heaven. So We will surely turn you to a qiblah you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-masjid al-haram. And wherever you are, then turn your faces toward it. And indeed, those who have been given the Writ well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.
Here, Allah is saying that establishing masjid al haram is the means to the straight path, thus turn your focus to it. Allah is suggesting that establishing masjid al haram will be pleasing to the believers.
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peace all,
Mushu,
the "qiblah" is not defined as "the straight path" in the verse as you say, however, that is one interpretation.2/142 already defined the qiblah as a straight path. Allah is saying here that He made the straight path something difficult before, and this was to test who would follow the messenger and who wouldn't. Hence Allah qualifies this by saying only those who are guided can remain focussed on the straight path when it is difficult.
I think you have reversed the sequence.
Here, Allah is saying that establishing masjid al haram is the means to the straight path, thus turn your focus to it.
"establishing" is not in the verse, but would be one interpretation.
One crucial component of these verses is the reason given in 2150, which is "...so that not will be for the people against you debate, except those who wronged among them...". Interestingly, the common interpretations would perhaps only lead to debate and friction etc.
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Peace,
Mushu,
the "qiblah" is not defined as "the straight path" in the verse as you say, however, that is one interpretation.Yes, that's what I meant. I interpret the qiblah here to be a straight path.
I think you have reversed the sequence.
How do you mean?
"establishing" is not in the verse, but would be one interpretation.
I didn't say "establishing" was in the verse. I don't believe MAH is a physical building so the turning of the face would not be physical. If MAH is an institution/idea/system of organisation, then it would have to be established/maintained/supported to have any effect. I think this is what the verse is telling the believers to focus on.
One crucial component of these verses is the reason given in 2150, which is "...so that not will be for the people against you debate, except those who wronged among them...". Interestingly, the common interpretations would perhaps only lead to debate and friction etc.
Agreed.
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peace Mushu,
2/142 already defined the qiblah as a straight path. Allah is saying here that He made the straight path something difficult before, and this was to test who would follow the messenger and who wouldn't. Hence Allah qualifies this by saying only those who are guided can remain focussed on the straight path when it is difficult.
I meant that is not the sequence AQ states/implies, or at least I do not get the sequence of events you are implying.
2142 is about a change of qiblah/focus, and when asked why, the response is "................he guides whom he wills ila/to a straight path".
If one interprets "qiblah" as "straight path" then I fail to see how one can say before they were on it too, only it was more difficult, as it is about a change. Are they changed from difficult straight path to easier straight path? And how does the response, based on this understanding of the terms, answer the question?For example, if we substitute terms
The foolish from amongst the people will say "What has turned them away from the that they were on?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
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The known fools/Muna'afiqeen from amongst the people will enquire/keep conversing amongst themselves; "What is that which has caused them turn away from their Qib'laa'tae, the one upon which they henceforth remained adhered?"
You the Messenger Muhammad pronounce ; "The East and the West are the domain for Allah ........Word by Word 2142
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peace Mushu, all,
My notes on these verses are quite extensive.
Basically, I take these verses as a change of focus/direction from whatever the people with the messenger were following before, in favour of racing towards unity, good deeds, brotherhood etc which are are all part of the inviolable time/institute of acknowledgement.
It is not about a physical direction. The verses themselves disprove that. No-one who changes from one direction to another gives the reason of "to God belongs the east and the west..." as this implies direction is irrelevant, and one direction is as good as another. Amongst other things.
The timing of these verses are related to nearing end-stage of community development, which ultimately leads to a confederation of believers.
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Peace,
Wakas, I hope you don't mind me quoting some of your notes here
I think we're actually thinking along the same lines, although I'd like to clarify a few things regarding your thoughts on what the change was, if there was one.
If anything, it suggests from physical to non-physical.
and
It may be interesting to note that AQ points out it made the believers a "balanced/wasatan nation" in 2143 after mentioning in 2141 those nations were of the past, and what they done is for them, and what you do is for you, implying a break away from the past and a possible change in direction/focus was about to take place.
From these I take it you believe there was indeed a previous qib'la and then a new one as per 2/143, although it would have been a physical qib'la to a non-physical qib'la.
If we understand that the quran is merely a reminder for what was already the way of Ibrahim, surely our qib'la would be the same as his?
If physical direction existed 2148 usurps this concept and replaces it with "race towards good", i.e. THAT is the qiblah/focus/direction.
I wonder why this would constitute a change, given that racing to the good would have been a fundamental part of the millat of Ibrahim.
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peace Mushu,
Yes, I do mind a little. As I said to you when I sent them "they may or may not be accurate" and "they may or may not make sense", i.e. they are unrefined incomplete thoughts.
Perhaps I would have minded less, if you stated this when posting them.
In any case, no big deal
From these I take it you believe there was indeed a previous qib'la and then a new one as per 2/143
Yes.
...although it would have been a physical qib'la to a non-physical qib'la.
No. I said "if anything....." meaning if people wish to argue it was from one physical direction to another physical direction, the verse implies, if anything, from physical to non-physical.
I wonder why this would constitute a change, given that racing to the good would have been a fundamental part of the millat of Ibrahim.
Well "race to the good" via/utilising a specific route, i.e. al masjid al haram, could constitute a change in focus/qiblah. As I said, my notes are not refined/complete thoughts.
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Peace Wakas,
peace Mushu,
Yes, I do mind a little. As I said to you when I sent them "they may or may not be accurate" and "they may or may not make sense", i.e. they are unrefined incomplete thoughts.
Perhaps I would have minded less, if you stated this when posting them.
I'm really sorry bro. I thought perhaps brainstorming in public may help refine our thoughts on this.
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I'm wondering whether there was a "turn" to begin with. 2/142 says the foolish from the people will ask the question, not the people in general. We could assume that a change in qib'la would raise questions from most people, not just the foolish ones. Is it that the foolish simply did not understand what the believers were doing, and assumed they had turned? "To Allah belongs the east and the west" may mean that the qib'la is as wide as the horizon, and that there was no turn at all.
If the qib'la is to race to the good, as per 2/148, then the phrase in 2/143, "And indeed, it was difficult except for those whom Allah guided", could be saying that racing to the good was made something difficult before, as a means to test who would follow the messenger.
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Its no biggie. I'm just sensitive of my work, hence attach a disclaimer on pretty much everything I write.
For me, the word "qiblah/focus/direction" is not something special, and those verses prove it by saying each person having their own "qiblah". Note how some are then forced to say the people of the book had two "prayer directions" otherwise their view will fail, e.g. see Mazhar's translation.
The reason I think there was a change, is due to the Arabic and the context/logic. I would need to have someone check over the Arabic and say it does not necessarily imply a change, before I concluded further.
We could assume that a change in qib'la would raise questions from most people, not just the foolish ones.
I think you potentially have a valid point here. Perhaps we can consider what kind of change would illicit such a response, then use a process of elimination from the possibilities, although I do think it would not be black/white.
If the qib'la is to race to the good, as per 2/148, then the phrase in 2/143, "And indeed, it was difficult except for those whom Allah guided", could be saying that racing to the good was made something difficult before, as a means to test who would follow the messenger.
I dont think so. I think the verses are just about a change in "qiblah/focus/direction" from whatever the believers were doing/following before, e.g. from what I have read of history, Arabia was very tribal orientated, thus foregoing that in favour of a wider brotherhood, not based on tribe/blood but on piousness etc would be something difficult to change.......... amongst other beliefs/practices. This is one option that fits in my view.
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Peace,
Wakas, how about this...
2/144 tells us that those who were given the book know that the turn of the qiblah to al masjid al haram is the truth from their Lord. 2/146 goes on to say that they recognise the truth like they recognise their own sons.
2/53 tells us that Musa was given the book, yet in 10/87 Musa and his people are commanded to make their houses their qiblah.
Could this mean that the focus before was to establish the deen on a more local, personal space, and the progression or turn was to focus on a societal level i.e. AMAH?
And happy eid everyone! )
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peace,
Not quite.
I think it would be unlikely that a prophet/messenger, such as Moses, would be told to establish the deen on a local/personal space only. I think in his people's specific situation, this is what they could do, i.e. it was situational.
Also, I dont really think thats a change in qiblah, because its the same qiblah, but on a bigger scale, if I understood you correctly.
But you do bring up an interesting issue, in the sense that it is clear from AQ, Abraham established something special, and not everyone would be in a position to do such a thing. Hence perhaps the emphasis on Muhammad to follow Abraham's example, because Muhammad happened to be in a position to do so, i.e. establish something similar to Abraham. Hence the interplay between the two in AQ.
Of course, AMAH is only discussed when the believers community is reaching its peak, so yes, amah, is on a more widespread/societal level.
