Winter Ramadan (as outlined by The Natural Republic) - Investigation
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May peace be with you all!
Recently I have been trying to study the outline of Ramadan, The Night of Decree, including it's specific timing, etc. I find it quite difficult to believe that these important times of the year rely upon arbitrary, man-made calendars. Allah has a system, and I do believe there is some sort of cosmic calendar in order.
Indeed we find the Quran has many clues regarding the sun and it's positions, as well as the moon and it's phases, etc. and their purposes. Recently I've been reading The Natural Republic by The Monotheist Group (http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/TNR.pdf) that seeks to explain the Islamic calendar (chapter 13). I believe the views are that of brother Layth's as it matches his two articles on this site (http//free-minds.org/calendars & http//free-minds.org/qadr).
There are a few issues that I have with it however, and I'm hoping that anyone who follows this system can please help clarify them for me. )
- When does the year begin?
TNR says based on 971-5 mentioning the importance of the Night of Decree, it makes it most worthy to use as a marker for the beginning of the year. Is this just a matter of opinion? Where objectively confirms this?
- The Spirits and the Angels Come Down
From what I understand, the author is linking the Night of Decree to the conception of Jesus due to the fact that both of these times have the coming down of both Spirit and Angels. Thus, we can use the clues we have to find out when Jesus was conceived to also find the Night of Decree. My only question is, are these the only 2 times this phenomena has happened? Is there anywhere that proves this hasn't happened at other holy events, that may not be during the Winter Solstice? Perhaps this is merely Allah's "arm"?
- Night of Decree = Winter Solstice
Isn't this quite the assumption? The only basis here is that Night of Decree is a blessed night, and the Winter Solstice is the longest night, therefore it should be the Night of Decree. I understand it's peculiar that it also lands around the assumed conception of Jesus/Night of Decree, but wouldn't the Quran be a bit more certain about this? Is there anywhere that proves the Night of Decree is the longest or at least very long?
- The Months Begin with the Full Moon
I understand that 2189 mentions the crescent moon and doesn't mention anything about the start of a month, thus the Dark Moon and Full Moon are the only ones to be considered. But does that mean it's ONLY for the Pilgrimage and can't be for the beginning of months? Even if you say so, how does the Full Moon relate in any way to 3639 that references the "old palm sheath"? To me, the sheath is undeniably referring to a crescent shape, unless there is a translation error. How does the Full Moon ever look like an old palm sheath?
Another point is, majority of translations including many progressive ones, translate the "crescent moon" in 2189 as "new moon". Is there any clarification on the Arabic part of that verse? It seems only The Monotheist Group translates it as "crescent moon".
- Night of Decree = Month of Ramadan = First of the Restricted Months
I do not see this link at all. The verse used is 92-5. Where indicates that the FIRST of the 4 Restricted Months is where the "special" Pilgrimage happens? Where makes certain this "special" Pilgrimage is even Ramadan besides the fact it's one of the most important months in Islam? And how does this make Ramadan the first month of the year/make it so the year begins with the 4 Restricted Months?
I just feel it's too many leaps for something that should be so clear to us. Perhaps there are translation errors that are confusing me, I'm not sure.
But I hope that someone can be patient enough to help clarify these issues for me.
Thank you for your time. )
May peace be with you all.
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Hello Eikonoklastes. May I reply to the points you bring up
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To decide when the year begins is man's business rather than God's. Christians have decided that it begins at the time when Jesus was supposedly born; so Muslims can choose it to begin at the time when Prophet Muhammad migrated to Yathrib.
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In 974 is singular and stands for Jibril, the angel of revelation. That night come down the angels and the Spirit. I understand that that night Jibril conveyed to Prophet Muhammed a special chapter (964, 81, 86, 124, 127), which dealt with the criterion to show the difference between sincere believers and fake ones.
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Night of Decree = the first full moon after the summer solstice, which is mentioned in 2185 along with the very word criterion ().
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The word in the Quran does not mean MONTH; it means the time the moon takes to make a complete turn around the earth once 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes 3 seconds... That period of time begins when the waxing crescent appears after the new moon and ends when it appears again.
MONTH is one of the 12 parts of the year, but is one of the 12 or 13 full moons that make up the mentioned in 936.
- There is no such thing as the Month of Ramadan. The mentioned in 2185 is the first full moon after the summer solstice; that is, the scorching full moon.
Night of Decree = the scorching full moon = beginning of the first restricted full moon.
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
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Salam,
I follow the luni/solar calendar in terms of the time of Ramadhan/fasting, so let me try to address your points if I can.
- When does the year begin?
TNR says based on 971-5 mentioning the importance of the Night of Decree, it makes it most worthy to use as a marker for the beginning of the year. Is this just a matter of opinion? Where objectively confirms this?
The year can begin at any month a society chooses, as long as the 4 restricted months are known/observed. What is mentioned in TNR is an opinoin - that if you had to chose a marker to call "month 1" what would you chose. Ramadhan was chosen because it is a special month in which the event of the night of decree occurs (seems to me to be more special than some human's birth or migration).
- The Spirits and the Angels Come Down
From what I understand, the author is linking the Night of Decree to the conception of Jesus due to the fact that both of these times have the coming down of both Spirit and Angels. Thus, we can use the clues we have to find out when Jesus was conceived to also find the Night of Decree. My only question is, are these the only 2 times this phenomena has happened? Is there anywhere that proves this hasn't happened at other holy events, that may not be during the Winter Solstice? Perhaps this is merely Allah's "arm"?
There maybe other events, but the clearest ones are the 2 mentioned in terms of the event of Spirit/Night. There is another miracelous event which occured during the cold of winter - God speaking to Moses, whereby the Quran tells us Moses saw a burning bush and told his family he will try to see what is at the fire and bring them some of it for warmth.
- Night of Decree = Winter Solstice
Isn't this quite the assumption? The only basis here is that Night of Decree is a blessed night, and the Winter Solstice is the longest night, therefore it should be the Night of Decree. I understand it's peculiar that it also lands around the assumed conception of Jesus/Night of Decree, but wouldn't the Quran be a bit more certain about this? Is there anywhere that proves the Night of Decree is the longest or at least very long?
This link is related to the concept of God's mercy. Knowing that God is Most Merciful, and knowing that the special events are set during the Night, it is a natural conclusion that God would chose the night with the longest time in it so as to extend His blessing to the people - hence, the winter solstice night as it is the longest night in the year and corresponds with the same period that Jesus would have been conceived.
- The Months Begin with the Full Moon
I understand that 2189 mentions the crescent moon and doesn't mention anything about the start of a month, thus the Dark Moon and Full Moon are the only ones to be considered. But does that mean it's ONLY for the Pilgrimage and can't be for the beginning of months? Even if you say so, how does the Full Moon relate in any way to 3639 that references the "old palm sheath"? To me, the sheath is undeniably referring to a crescent shape, unless there is a translation error. How does the Full Moon ever look like an old palm sheath?
The palm sheeth falls to both sides (right and left). Thus, in looking at a palm tree with old sheeths, you will see the shape of a circle (not a cresent). Thus the month begins with the shape of the old palm sheeths which is a full circle.
Another point is, majority of translations including many progressive ones, translate the "crescent moon" in 2189 as "new moon". Is there any clarification on the Arabic part of that verse? It seems only The Monotheist Group translates it as "crescent moon".
Hilal = Cresent in Arabic. The translation is accurate. The use of "new moon" is based on a preconceived notion that the crescent begins the new moon. This also lends weight to the full moon argument, that God calls the resetting of the Moon to its start as "old palm sheeths" and not cresent (a word He uses clearly in 2189).
- Night of Decree = Month of Ramadan = First of the Restricted Months
I do not see this link at all. The verse used is 92-5. Where indicates that the FIRST of the 4 Restricted Months is where the "special" Pilgrimage happens? Where makes certain this "special" Pilgrimage is even Ramadan besides the fact it's one of the most important months in Islam? And how does this make Ramadan the first month of the year/make it so the year begins with the 4 Restricted Months?
You have to look at these events collectively to see the link.
Night of Decree is set to the period of winter solsctice, which makes that period the month of Ramadhan (around December).
The ultimatum of 92-5 was issued during the month of pilrimage (called the greater" pilgrimage) and would last for 4 months. The end of this period in 95 is referred to as "the end of the restricted months".
In 981, we read that the mobilization was done "during the heat", which typically would mean that they were at the onset of April/May for the Middle East.
Deducting 4 months from takes us to Dec/Jan.
This explains the use of the word "greater pilgrimage" (what makes it greater than the other months?). It is because this pilgrimage is also a combination of Ramadhan.
Obviously, this would make Ramadhan a restricted month. And, since the 4 months are sequential, it makes it the first of these months.
I just feel it's too many leaps for something that should be so clear to us. Perhaps there are translation errors that are confusing me, I'm not sure.
The weakness is not in the translation, the verses are pretty accurate. It could simply be the explanation in TNR on this subject needs rewording.
Hopr this helps.
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Peace,
- When does the year begin?
TNR says based on 971-5 mentioning the importance of the Night of Decree, it makes it most worthy to use as a marker for the beginning of the year. Is this just a matter of opinion? Where objectively confirms this?
Need to define exactly which word means year and exactly which time-frame
snh feminine
Aam masculine
snyn masculine plural
al-wl masculine- The Spirits and the Angels Come Down
From what I understand, the author is linking the Night of Decree to the conception of Jesus due to the fact that both of these times have the coming down of both Spirit and Angels. Thus, we can use the clues we have to find out when Jesus was conceived to also find the Night of Decree. My only question is, are these the only 2 times this phenomena has happened? Is there anywhere that proves this hasn't happened at other holy events, that may not be during the Winter Solstice? Perhaps this is merely Allah's "arm"?
It's continuous; they don't take off the other 364 days.
701-5 asked a questioner about a punishment bound to happen to the disbelievers not of it any preventer from Allah owner the ways of ascent. Ascend al-malikatu wal-ru to Him in a period is its measure fifty thousand snh so be patient...
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Salam,
I follow the luni/solar calendar in terms of the time of Ramadhan/fasting, so let me try to address your points if I can.
Peace Layth,
Thank you for your explanations, they have helped immensely in understanding this theory. I still have a few issues with it however.
There maybe other events, but the clearest ones are the 2 mentioned in terms of the event of Spirit/Night. There is another miracelous event which occured during the cold of winter - God speaking to Moses, whereby the Quran tells us Moses saw a burning bush and told his family he will try to see what is at the fire and bring them some of it for warmth.
I see. My only issue with this is that I don't believe that Mary conceived at the time of the Spirit/Angel's announcement of her bearing the Messiah (due to the points outlined here http//www.freewebs.com/nadqur/birth.htm). Thus if it is the only other time this Spirit/Angel phenomena happened, and the conception is the only major key to identifying the Night of Decree, then I don't find the theory very credible. Interestingly, Jesus would have still been conceived around December, but I suppose there's no way to know if the Spirit/Angels were present at this particular time. -\
The palm sheeth falls to both sides (right and left). Thus, in looking at a palm tree with old sheeths, you will see the shape of a circle (not a cresent). Thus the month begins with the shape of the old palm sheeths which is a full circle.
I'm still having a hard time accepting this as the explanation. Unfortunately I'm not educated in the Arabic language, so perhaps you can help clarify some words for me. I also have a few ideas to bounce off of you that you may find insightful (or not P).
Is the translation literally, "...until it returns like an old palm sheath" (3639)? Is the word for "returns" in Arabic like that of something coming back, like a dog returning the ball? Could it be the moon returning to a closest point or to a distinct start period or to Earth, much like the old palm sheaths return to the trunk as they hang down?
I also see some translators translating it as "old date-stalk, dried-up and curved" or "old curved date-stalk". Any reason behind this? In looking at both old date-stalks and old palm sheaths, I notice they both become a yellow/orange colour. The moon also becomes this colour at certain times. I'm still researching this for myself (learning both Arabic and astronomy tends to be overwhelmingly), but if you have any ideas surrounding them, I'd appreciate the knowledge.
Hilal = Cresent in Arabic. The translation is accurate. The use of "new moon" is based on a preconceived notion that the crescent begins the new moon. This also lends weight to the full moon argument, that God calls the resetting of the Moon to its start as "old palm sheeths" and not cresent (a word He uses clearly in 2189).
Hmm, is the word 'circle' or 'full' used anywhere in the Quran? I know it describes the Earth as an Ostrich egg or something. I feel a full moon would have an easier description than the old palm tree one. The sheaths hardly make a circle, and if anything it's like a circle with two crescents cut off from either side, but I don't think that's even a phase.
Peace.
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Hello Eikonoklastes. May I reply to the points you bring up
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To decide when the year begins is man's business rather than God's. Christians have decided that it begins at the time when Jesus was supposedly born; so Muslims can choose it to begin at the time when Prophet Muhammad migrated to Yathrib.
-
In 974 is singular and stands for Jibril, the angel of revelation. That night come down the angels and the Spirit. I understand that that night Jibril conveyed to Prophet Muhammed a special chapter (964, 81, 86, 124, 127), which dealt with the criterion to show the difference between sincere believers and fake ones.
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Night of Decree = the first full moon after the summer solstice, which is mentioned in 2185 along with the very word criterion ().
-
The word in the Quran does not mean MONTH; it means the time the moon takes to make a complete turn around the earth once 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes 3 seconds... That period of time begins when the waxing crescent appears after the new moon and ends when it appears again.
MONTH is one of the 12 parts of the year, but is one of the 12 or 13 full moons that make up the mentioned in 936.
- There is no such thing as the Month of Ramadan. The mentioned in 2185 is the first full moon after the summer solstice; that is, the scorching full moon.
Night of Decree = the scorching full moon = beginning of the first restricted full moon.
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ayPeace,
Thank you for your help. Is this the theory put forth here http//free-minds.org/timing ? Or one of your own finding?
have you read?
http//free-minds.org/timingPeace,
I've read it over once, but I found it a bit much to digest. I do have it printed out and will go through it once I have settled my opinion on this Winter Solstice theory. I'll probably have to make a thread picking at Ayman's mind as well.
It's continuous; they don't take off the other 364 days.
701-5 asked a questioner about a punishment bound to happen to the disbelievers not of it any preventer from Allah owner the ways of ascent. Ascend al-malikatu wal-ru to Him in a period is its measure fifty thousand snh so be patient...
Peace,
I shared a similar belief, but it does seem to describe the Night of Decree as special for this reason. -\
Thanks for your input, nonetheless. )
May Allah guide me to the truth.
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Salam,
There is another miracelous event which occured during the cold of winter - God speaking to Moses, whereby the Quran tells us Moses saw a burning bush and told his family he will try to see what is at the fire and bring them some of it for warmth.Salaam
I recently watched Michael Palin around the world, in Sahara where he wondered how they needed to light a fire to keep themselves warm after a very hot day in Sahara. The fact is that nights can get very cold in the desert.
The varied experience of fasting is a unique experience because Ramadhan, unlike the static celebration of one specific period (such as Christmas), is NOT anchored to a specific period.Peace
farida -
Salam Layth,
From TNR i learned that the 1st(Ramadhan) to the 4th Month is the Restricted Months/Hajj Months
From the Quran we know that in 2196 Hajj have some fasting involved in the process as an option for whoever have affliction to his head
also in the same verse it is mentioned that for people who continues visiting till hajj need to give donation, but if he cant, thenr he needs to fast 3 days in Hajj and 7 days when we are back homeAlso in 595 it is said that fasting is a punishment option for those who hunt animals during Hajj .
In my opinion, having Ramadhan as a part of the 4 restricted/hajj months creates a problem when the person who is already fasting(because of ramadhan - be it 10 days or a month) having to fast during the hajj months as indicated in 2196 and 585. Hence my opinion that the restricted/hajj months and Ramadhan does not overlaps.
How do you address this problem?
Peace
ashraf -
Salam Ashraf,
From TNR i learned that the 1st(Ramadhan) to the 4th Month is the Restricted Months/Hajj Months
From the Quran we know that in 2196 Hajj have some fasting involved in the process as an option for whoever have affliction to his head also in the same verse it is mentioned that for people who continues visiting till hajj need to give donation, but if he cant, thenr he needs to fast 3 days in Hajj and 7 days when we are back home
Also in 595 it is said that fasting is a punishment option for those who hunt animals during Hajj .
In my opinion, having Ramadhan as a part of the 4 restricted/hajj months creates a problem when the person who is already fasting(because of ramadhan - be it 10 days or a month) having to fast during the hajj months as indicated in 2196 and 585. Hence my opinion that the restricted/hajj months and Ramadhan does not overlaps.
How do you address this problem?
Your observation is well pointed out, but does not refute that ramadhan & hajj can overlap.
Fasting is only for 10 days.
So, from full moon (start of the month) to the crescent moon (pilgrimage) you have 12 free days in which to fast the 10. Assuming a person did not fast at all during the 12 days, he/she would only lose the 3 days of the pilgrimage as a punishment fast, leaving the remainder of the month in which to fast - this actually seems more supportable to ramadhan & hajj being the same as the command in 2196 tells the person not to fast the remaining 7 days until he/she returns to his/her home town - which seems to be meant to free up the remainder of the month from any punishment fasting.
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I've been thinking about this extensively, and I think the winter Ramadan makes more sense for the following reasons
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The fast, according to the verses that discuss it, say that God did not intend for it to be a hardship. Fasting close to the winter solstice would mean the shortest days possible, making the fast less of a hardship than if fasting close to the summer solstice when the days are at their longest.
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Prior revelation, in my very n00b opinion, supports a winter fast. Before anyone starts throwing rotten food at me, hear me out.
First, I suspect that R-M-D may be a loan root from Aramaic (no, I don't buy that crap about the Quran being written in Syriac). "Taurat" and "Injeel" are loan words from Hebrew and Greek, so why not? The root means wonder/amazement/marvel. There happens to be a fall fast of 10 days in the Jewish tradition that also marks the beginning of the new year. AND it is called the Days of Awe. Notice the similarity in "awe" to "wonder/amazement/marvel"?
The fast of the Days of Awe also marks the creation of the world. Early Christian thinking viewed the advent of Jesus to be a kind of revisiting of the creation of the world, creating it anew. Compare the first chapter of John's gospel with the first chapter of Genesis. Clearly, the author of John's gospel was drawing a parallel with the coming of the word from God (Jesus) to the creation of the world.
So, again in my very n00b opinion, a winter 10 day Ramadan fast that also marks the beginning of the calendar year, seems to make the most sense, maintaining what was still accurate from revelation to the Jews, but correcting the fall fast of the Jews to bring it in line with the conception of the Messiah. On a related note, there are problems with the Jewish calendar according to the Torah because there are actually two "new year" dates. One is Rosh Hashanah (the first of the Days of Awe), and the other is the giving of the Torah. The holiday of the giving of the Torah has to be figured based on the first omer of winter barley at harvest time, so it moves solely based on crops. Rabbis use a formula from the Talmud to "correct" this agrarian approach, but the winter Ramadan solution is a better one.
Any thoughts?
-Joel -
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I've been thinking about this extensively, and I think the winter Ramadan makes more sense for the following reasons
- The fast, according to the verses that discuss it, say that God did not intend for it to be a hardship. Fasting close to the winter solstice would mean the shortest days possible, making the fast less of a hardship than if fasting close to the summer solstice when the days are at their longest....
...Any thoughts?
-JoelHighlights are from me.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602533.msg280437#msg280437
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace
I question one of the premises of this whole calendar issue, being the use of the word shahr.
34/12 And for Sulaiman the wind, its morning was a full moon and its rawu was a full moon
I've left rawu untranslated as I don't believe it means afternoon. In any case, the above verse makes no sense to me when shahr is made to mean "full moon".
2/194 The sacred full moon with the sacred full moon and the sacred rites is qiun.
Again, making shahr to mean full moon presents problems.
2/197 The aj (is) full moons known,
We see translations insert the word "during" here.
9/5 uses the term l-ashhuru - "the full moons" Yet in 9/36 we see l-shuhri - "the full moons". What's the difference between the two words?
Regarding 9/36, the article "Blind Dating Versus Perfect Timing" linked earlier says,
"What The God is telling us is that we should always count 12 full moons in a year"
The word "year" is not in the verse. The word man is used in the next verse, but the article doesn't explore why this word and sanatin are both translated as "year" in the quran. In fact in 10/5, which is used in the article, l-sinna is translated as "the years".
9/37 also begins with the word "only" - does this mean that only the delaying is kuf'r but bringing forward is okay?
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I've been thinking about this extensively, and I think the winter Ramadan makes more sense for the following reasons
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The fast, according to the verses that discuss it, say that God did not intend for it to be a hardship. Fasting close to the winter solstice would mean the shortest days possible, making the fast less of a hardship than if fasting close to the summer solstice when the days are at their longest.
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Prior revelation, in my very n00b opinion, supports a winter fast. Before anyone starts throwing rotten food at me, hear me out.
First, I suspect that R-M-D may be a loan root from Aramaic (no, I don't buy that crap about the Quran being written in Syriac). "Taurat" and "Injeel" are loan words from Hebrew and Greek, so why not? The root means wonder/amazement/marvel. There happens to be a fall fast of 10 days in the Jewish tradition that also marks the beginning of the new year. AND it is called the Days of Awe. Notice the similarity in "awe" to "wonder/amazement/marvel"?
The fast of the Days of Awe also marks the creation of the world. Early Christian thinking viewed the advent of Jesus to be a kind of revisiting of the creation of the world, creating it anew. Compare the first chapter of John's gospel with the first chapter of Genesis. Clearly, the author of John's gospel was drawing a parallel with the coming of the word from God (Jesus) to the creation of the world.
So, again in my very n00b opinion, a winter 10 day Ramadan fast that also marks the beginning of the calendar year, seems to make the most sense, maintaining what was still accurate from revelation to the Jews, but correcting the fall fast of the Jews to bring it in line with the conception of the Messiah. On a related note, there are problems with the Jewish calendar according to the Torah because there are actually two "new year" dates. One is Rosh Hashanah (the first of the Days of Awe), and the other is the giving of the Torah. The holiday of the giving of the Torah has to be figured based on the first omer of winter barley at harvest time, so it moves solely based on crops. Rabbis use a formula from the Talmud to "correct" this agrarian approach, but the winter Ramadan solution is a better one.
Any thoughts?
-JoelPeace,
It would be nice to believe the fasting is after the Winter Solstice, but we do need the evidence as well. If one believes that Jesus was conceived at the time of Mary receiving the announcement of bearing the Messiah, I suppose this theory would make sense, but otherwise it doesn't. And there is strong evidence that Jesus wasn't conceived at that moment.
Interesting about the root of the word, but the strongest definition of Ramadan does seem to mean something along the lines of "scorching heat". I find it odd that Allah would use the word simply to follow the name of the man-made month, than for it to hold a more significant meaning. Also the Four Restricted Months seem to make more sense placed at the time of wildlife birth and child-rearing than the time of mating. It's close in line with today's hunting laws as well.
I'm still unsure on the whole matter myself, either way. I'm just bouncing ideas around. -\
May Allah guide us all.
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Peace
I question one of the premises of this whole calendar issue, being the use of the word shahr.
34/12 And for Sulaiman the wind, its morning was a full moon and its rawu was a full moon
I've left rawu untranslated as I don't believe it means afternoon. In any case, the above verse makes no sense to me when shahr is made to mean "full moon".
2/194 The sacred full moon with the sacred full moon and the sacred rites is qiun.
Again, making shahr to mean full moon presents problems.
2/197 The aj (is) full moons known,
We see translations insert the word "during" here.
9/5 uses the term l-ashhuru - "the full moons" Yet in 9/36 we see l-shuhri - "the full moons". What's the difference between the two words?
Regarding 9/36, the article "Blind Dating Versus Perfect Timing" linked earlier says,
"What The God is telling us is that we should always count 12 full moons in a year"
The word "year" is not in the verse. The word man is used in the next verse, but the article doesn't explore why this word and sanatin are both translated as "year" in the quran. In fact in 10/5, which is used in the article, l-sinna is translated as "the years".
9/37 also begins with the word "only" - does this mean that only the delaying is kuf'r but bringing forward is okay?
Salaam
Shahr is the full lunar month, which starts from the appearance of the cresent to the end of the month "...until it returns like an old palm sheath" making it a full month/moon/shahr.
What we call a full moon in English is actully only a half moon, as it has but reached the middle of its journey. Shahr is simply the lunar month and the problem has been created by some people seeing it from a modern translation of Arabic into English concepts.
The second confusion started as Ramadan only applies to those who witness it. Witnessing is always related to time for example when one gives testimony its always on such and such occassion when a specific occurence happened, so only those who witness breakdown of day and night into a month of Ramadan shall fast therein.
6714 Would He not know who has created? And He is eternally Aware/Knowledgeable au fait of all niceties and delicacies/subtlety/refinements.
The one who created this world knew of places where a month does not happen in terms of day and night breakdown so those living in places like that were the ones who do not witness the month of Ramadan, as seperation of day breaking and approach of the night is vital requirement for fasting. But when it comes to prayers they are not exempted, as they are not forgotten. Their timing is clearly given according to their region, as in 20130Peace
farida -
Peace,
It would be nice to believe the fasting is after the Winter Solstice, but we do need the evidence as well. If one believes that Jesus was conceived at the time of Mary receiving the announcement of bearing the Messiah, I suppose this theory would make sense, but otherwise it doesn't. And there is strong evidence that Jesus wasn't conceived at that moment.
Interesting about the root of the word, but the strongest definition of Ramadan does seem to mean something along the lines of "scorching heat". I find it odd that Allah would use the word simply to follow the name of the man-made month, than for it to hold a more significant meaning. Also the Four Restricted Months seem to make more sense placed at the time of wildlife birth and child-rearing than the time of mating. It's close in line with today's hunting laws as well.
I'm still unsure on the whole matter myself, either way. I'm just bouncing ideas around. -\
May Allah guide us all.
I see both sides of the argument. Since I don't know Arabic, I have to make most of my arguments from prior revelation where I see them fit with translations of the Quran.
Personally, I think a winter conception is supported by the gospels. Jesus' birth happened under a period of census, which would not have been enacted to interfere with planting and harvesting in the spring and summer. This leaves winter and fall as the choices for seasons of his birth. Winter is improbable if the announcement to the shepherds is true. They would not be out at night with sheep, at least not comfortably, in winter. There may also be another clue in John's gospel. John 114 - "The word became flesh and dwelled among us..." The greek word "dwelled" refers to sojourning in a tent, which could refer to the birth happening during the time of Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles, when Jews live in tents to commemorate the sojourn from Egypt. This feast happens in the fall, around September or October depending on the year. So, if a fall birth is plausible, count back 9 or 10 months for a normal gestation (1st births tend to go longer), then a late December conception date is the most reasonable.
But again, this is not an argument from the Quran. The only one I can think of is the references to the prophet being cloaked or wrapped in his garments at the revelation of the first suras. Wouldn't this support cooler night time temperatures in the winter?
I think a practical benefit of a summer Ramadan is the effect it has on the human body. I've pretty consistently followed a calorie-restricted diet for the past 3 years, and I can tell you the first summer I clearly noticed a difference in how heat affected me. The building where I work is not air-conditioned, so we get window units to make it bearable. When I ate somewhere between 1,200 to 1,500 calories a day, some days I did not even need to turn the window unit on.
But I'm not sure about it being tied to the summer solstice. Typically, the hottest temperatures don't occur until a month after the summer solstice because it takes time for the sun to raise the overall temperatures of the soil and large bodies of water.
I just don't know. I was going to observe Ramadan this summer, and then I read Layth's posts and read the related chapters from The Natural Republic. I believe the Quran is clear guidance, so what is it that is right in front of our eyes that we are missing?
Highlights are from me.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602533.msg280437#msg280437
Peace,
KhalilThe traditional approach to Ramadan is a pragmatic one, but the problem I find with it is it becomes completely ahistorical. The revelation of the Quran is an event in history. It happened at a specific time of year. A rotating observance of Ramadan does not recognize this fact.
Peace farida,
I question this as well. If you look at the points I raised in my last post, inserting "month" into those verses presents problems as well.
Peace Mushu,
I think a very easy mistake to make with any language is to assume that a word means the same thing in every context. Hebrew has several words that can mean a wide range of things depending on the context. For instance, "olam" can refer to eternity, an indefinitely long period of time, a fixed period of time based on the context, and with a masculine pronoun can also refer to God. All languages have words that require fluid contextual interpretation.
-Joel
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...But again, this is not an argument from the Quran. The only one I can think of is the references to the prophet being cloaked or wrapped in his garments at the revelation of the first suras. Wouldn't this support cooler night time temperatures in the winter?...
...I just don't know. I was going to observe Ramadan this summer, and then I read Layth's posts and read the related chapters from The Natural Republic. I believe the Quran is clear guidance, so what is it that is right in front of our eyes that we are missing?...
...The traditional approach to Ramadan is a pragmatic one, but the problem I find with it is it becomes completely ahistorical. The revelation of the Quran is an event in history. It happened at a specific time of year. A rotating observance of Ramadan does not recognize this fact...
Highlights above are from me.
The Islamic lunar calendar was not invented with the advent of The Qur?aan. The lunar calendar has been around and being used on a regular basis long before the revelation of The Qur?aan. The month of Ramadan is only the NAME of the NINTH month in that particular calendar. This calendar has, CONSTANTLY, ONLY 12 months in it, and is around 11 days shorter than the solar calendar. That is why the lunar calendar months, CONSTANTLY, move through the 4 seasons. By the same token the month of Ramadan just like any other lunar month can fall in spring, summer, fall, or winter. So, the revelation of The Qur?aan could have started in any season. Also, we should keep in mind that the revelation of The Qur?aan took around 23 years to COMPLETE. It was not revealed all at the same time, and I believe that, its revelation did BEGIN in the month of Ramadan, just as The Qur?aan claims.
My point here is that, GOD?S SYSTEM is a JUST system and it will never change. It is a JUST system because for example regarding the month of Ramadan, if it is going to be within a fixed month, falling within a fixed season every year, it?s going to be favorable and very easy for some people and unfavorable and hard for others. If for example Ramadan is in summer all the time, year after year, the fasting is going to be long and hard for the people living in the northern hemisphere and very short and easy for the residents of the southern hemisphere. This does not hold water within GOD?S system of JUSTICE.
Now, if the months of FASTING and HAJJ and? move around the four seasons by 11 or 12 days each year, then everyone gradually goes through all the seasons of the year and no one will be wronged.
Peace,
Khalil
