The "Immaculate Conception" of Jesus
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Another perspective
Jewish tradition at the time of Jesus held that if a woman conceived before her first menstrual cycle, she had in fact conceived as a virgin. Miraculous? Scientifically, no. Statistically, yes.
Peace,
This is very interesting, thank you for sharing. I'm going to look into this. I understand that Mary was very young at the time as well.
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Peace Jafar,
You have definitely done your homework. If you are interested in another view of Paul, you might see if you can get a copy of "Paul The Mythmaker" by Hyam Maccoby. He raises some good points, like why would a "Pharisee of Pharisees" work as hired muscle for a Sadducean High Priest?
I personally use some of Paul's writings from time to time, but I do not believe that he honestly presented himself in his letters.
I think the Quran is the final authority of revelation for this particular time. I do not believe there will be another revelation, though God can do what he wants. IF another revelation comes, it will not be a good thing because it means that things have gotten very, very bad.
Peace,
Joel -
Peace Jafar,
You have definitely done your homework. If you are interested in another view of Paul, you might see if you can get a copy of "Paul The Mythmaker" by Hyam Maccoby. He raises some good points, like why would a "Pharisee of Pharisees" work as hired muscle for a Sadducean High Priest?
No I'm not interested in "Paul's View"..
I do however find many 'similarities' between 'the sectarianism in judean region during jesus era' and 'the sectarianism of today'. Where every sects hate and persecute each other for petty and unfathomable reasons.
And.... it was the 'jewish priesthood' who first invented 'organized religion' in the first place which carries over towards Christianism and Sunniism. The 'saducees + pharisees' persecution of 'Jesus group' had many resemblance with today's Sunnist persecution towards the ahmadis (for example).
That's what interest me... to find the mistakes from 'previous people' and learn from it to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
I think the Quran is the final authority of revelation for this particular time. I do not believe there will be another revelation, though God can do what he wants. IF another revelation comes, it will not be a good thing because it means that things have gotten very, very bad.
My friend Joel, Quran never claimed itself to be the 'last / final revelation' from God.
Most people however think that it is... although no such statement can be found within the Quran.I respect the right for those who believe that it is the final revelation; because there are no compulsory in belief as truth stands out clear from error.
The similitude is like; there are people who think that 'elementary school' is the 'final stage' for his/her education and be satisfied with it while there are those who think otherwise and received further education beyond 'elementary school'.
If you believe that God's revelation has stopped.. so it is then.. for you...The evidence are very simple
According to the Quran it is He (God) who teaches men what they initially knew not..
In which I believe it's true..Now.. 1400 years after the Quran.. our knowledge has grown exponentially.. we understand many new things such as but not limited to electricity, magnetism, micro-biology, chemistry, astronomy, cosmology, physics etc..
So who 'reveal' those things to humanity?? It's a rethoric question by the way..And compared to 1400 years ago, human relatively has grown wiser and more enlightened because all of His guide and revelations..
Revelation is an ongoing process and shall continue even to future generation..
The technical mechanism of bringing those revelation perhaps are different now.. but the objective are the same.. to reveal / enlightened human... that is to those who are willing to be enlightened... or in Quranic or Gospelic term to those who are not 'deaf and blind'..As saith in the Gospel
"Ask and you shall received.. seek and you shall find"...From personal perspective; God's revelation to you.. begin when you were first being born into this world and shall end when you die. So seek it out, ask it out.. while you still have time..
Salam / Peace
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Peace Jafar,
No I'm not interested in "Paul's View"..
I do however find many 'similarities' between 'the sectarianism in judean region during jesus era' and 'the sectarianism of today'. Where every sects hate and persecute each other for petty and unfathomable reasons.
Let me rephrase if you want to see the evidence that differs from what you earlier said you believe about Paul, than Maccoby's book is a good place to start. But if you aren't interested in Paul's view, then it doesn't matter.
My friend Joel, Quran never claimed itself to be the 'last / final revelation' from God.
Most people however think that it is... although no such statement can be found within the Quran.You are correct, it does not. But here is how I look at it. I believe we are currently in a period of time where there are no messengers
?The days are coming,? declares the Sovereign LORD,
?when I will send a famine through the land?
not a famine of food or a thirst for water,
but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD.
People will stagger from sea to sea
and wander from north to east,
searching for the word of the LORD,
but they will not find it (Amos 811-12).Think of it. From the time of Moses, there was a nearly constant stream of prophets and messengers. Until after Mohammed, the seal of the prophets. It has been 1400 years, and we are in a famine of HEARING the word of God. We now READ was was spoken by the prophets.
The evidence are very simple
According to the Quran it is He (God) who teaches men what they initially knew not..
In which I believe it's true..What kind of knowledge is it that God teaches that we do not know? It is the knowledge of supernatural things. The growth of scientific knowledge is merely something that builds upon things we previously knew. In one sense, the potential for knowing all of these things is already latent within humanity anyway. Science does not teach us what we cannot know and discover on our own. God teaches us what is beyond the limits of what we can know.
Now.. 1400 years after the Quran.. our knowledge has grown exponentially.. we understand many new things such as but not limited to electricity, magnetism, micro-biology, chemistry, astronomy, cosmology, physics etc..
So who 'reveal' those things to humanity?? It's a rethoric question by the way..And compared to 1400 years ago, human relatively has grown wiser and more enlightened because all of His guide and revelations..
I know you asked a rhetorical question, but it does deserve further exploration. Is it really God that teaches us these things? Let me ask a question or two in response. Is it possible for a person without electricity, running water, etc, to be rightly guided by God? Is it possible for a person with all of the modern advances in the world to NOT be rightly guided? Of course! All of the things you mentioned are good things. We should see what other good things we can discover. But they are a separate matter from revelation.
As a species, we have not grown wiser and more enlightened. We have medicines that can practically erase the HIV virus from a body, better farming techniques to improve yields, and new ways of filtering water. And yet how many people die daily for lack of these things, all because of greed? What potential for evil do we possess with our military technology?
Nietzsche's Overman has yet to be realized - and never will be. We have philosophically reached the limits of epistemology. Modern philosophers have declared that God is dead, and they have good arguments. And yet humanity overall is in the grip of an existential crisis. We are not growing more enlightened, our pride at our achievements is causing us to transgress the limits.
Again, all of the things you mentioned are good things. But they will not solve humanity's angst. They do not speak to the soul of man. God's word does. While we are in a famine of having a prophetic tradition in the world, we do have God's words for us to read.
Peace to you friend,
Joel -
You are correct, it does not. But here is how I look at it. I believe we are currently in a period of time where there are no messengers
?The days are coming,? declares the Sovereign LORD,
?when I will send a famine through the land?
not a famine of food or a thirst for water,
but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD.
People will stagger from sea to sea
and wander from north to east,
searching for the word of the LORD,
but they will not find it (Amos 811-12).Think of it. From the time of Moses, there was a nearly constant stream of prophets and messengers. Until after Mohammed, the seal of the prophets. It has been 1400 years, and we are in a famine of HEARING the word of God. We now READ was was spoken by the prophets.
What kind of knowledge is it that God teaches that we do not know? It is the knowledge of supernatural things. The growth of scientific knowledge is merely something that builds upon things we previously knew. In one sense, the potential for knowing all of these things is already latent within humanity anyway. Science does not teach us what we cannot know and discover on our own. God teaches us what is beyond the limits of what we can know.
I know you asked a rhetorical question, but it does deserve further exploration. Is it really God that teaches us these things? Let me ask a question or two in response. Is it possible for a person without electricity, running water, etc, to be rightly guided by God? Is it possible for a person with all of the modern advances in the world to NOT be rightly guided? Of course! All of the things you mentioned are good things. We should see what other good things we can discover. But they are a separate matter from revelation.
My friend, you are thinking that revelation only came through "Nabi/Nevi/Prophet".. (those whose tongue are being 'borrowed' to speak words not from their own).
You are 'imprisoning' yourself to that expectation..The culture / habits of 'prophethood' only happen in 'western culture', semitic culture to be exact where God is being 'personified' as thus He speaks and so on...
Such conception doesn't exist in (for example) eastern culture, where God is not being personified.. as thus there are no 'prophets' within their society..
Yet it doesn't mean that they doesn't received any revelation from It... (Since they refer to God as It rather than Him)There are no such thing as 'super natural', the notion of 'natural' and 'super natural' are defined by human to differentiate "thing that we now understand" and "thing that we now haven't understand".
As time progress and human learned more.. things which was "super natural" became "natural"..
Virgin birth for example... it's hardly a miracle nowadays.. because we now understand how it can be done...The advent of the so-called 'scientific methodology' is also within His plan.. it's something the He revealed..
It also a part of His revelation.. Science is not a 'party' or 'something that give knowledge' it's merely a methodology.. a knowledge that we learn...God teaches us everything that we knew not before.. including (but not limited to) scientific methodology and empirical research. which was a kind of 'quantum leap' from doctrinal / dogmatic methodology.. commonly employed by sectarians..
As a species, we have not grown wiser and more enlightened. We have medicines that can practically erase the HIV virus from a body, better farming techniques to improve yields, and new ways of filtering water. And yet how many people die daily for lack of these things, all because of greed? What potential for evil do we possess with our military technology?
Yes we do.. there are no more 'official slavery', 'human sacrifice' for example..
We now understand thing about Virus and health..
And we now know that there are many people still living in poor condition..While hundred years ago..
Nobody knows about virus.. and nearly everybody are living in poor condition (compare with our standards now)..
But since they didn't know about it.. they didn't complain or see it as a 'problem'...The advent of 'modern weaponry' also has a blessing in disguise.. seeing the 'destructive effect' which modern war can cause.. nation now practiced (relatively) more of a 'self restraint'..
Compare the frequency of war happening in the last century with 19th century for example.. the number has gone down and the casualties has gone down too.. WWI and WWII makes people grew more wiser...They learn now that instead of doing war doing business and trading are more beneficial...
Nation's border are getting less-less relevant... international trade flourishes.. international travel flourishes.. international communication flourishes.. the so-called 'globalization' which (slowly but sure) bring a sense of 'togetherness' accross border. When EU and US economy being hit hard.. (just like now), China also suffers... given less people are able to buy their products... that was just one simple example... When India & China economy grew (just like now) every nation in the world rejoice.. as that mean more business to be made.. more trading to be made with them..
People across the ocean send relief when other people hit hard with a disaster such as tsunami..Something which never happened 1400 years ago...
Nietzsche's Overman has yet to be realized - and never will be. We have philosophically reached the limits of epistemology. Modern philosophers have declared that God is dead, and they have good arguments. And yet humanity overall is in the grip of an existential crisis. We are not growing more enlightened, our pride at our achievements is causing us to transgress the limits.
Again, all of the things you mentioned are good things. But they will not solve humanity's angst. They do not speak to the soul of man. God's word does. While we are in a famine of having a prophetic tradition in the world, we do have God's words for us to read.
I advice you to (for example) go to China.. and seek out whether they are 'wisdomless society'...
They never had any 'prophets'... yet I don't see them as lacking of wisdom..
In many ways I see them relatively 'wiser' than those people who had received many prophets...God sent His revelation to everyone with variety of ways / mechanism...
And God signs are there in the heaven and the earth.. for people to understand..
That is for those who can understand...But nevertheless if you believe that God has stopped His revelation, well then it's your choice.. so it will be then.. for you..
Salam / Peace