Cousin marriages- dnt understand???
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Why not? We're all 'cousins' anyway..
There are no two people who are living today which are more distantly related than 50th cousins..
Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, Queen Victoria married their first cousins, and all of their children are fine..
Although it's true the more distant (in family relatives) two people are, the richer their children gene pool will be and probabilistically shall yield 'better offspring'...Salam / Peace
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I understand your questioning, it is difficult at times with my husbands family because they are all inner related. It can be confusing to me when I am trying to figure who is what. He will say my Great Aunt who is also my Grandmother.. it just blows my mind. But I come from a culture where this is not the norm. I think it would be extremely difficult in a case where the cousins divorce. It could destroy a family, I suppose. Or ppl who have 2 wives and both are cousins, (not sisters of course).. now try that shoe on for size!
I think it is just different for those of us not exposed. The idea of sleeping with my male cousins because we are close, as you said family, just turns my stomach, I could not even find them sexual attractive, but again culture and to each their own.
Allah knows better than us and he has allowed it.
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Just because its allowed doesnt mean you should go ahead and do it. Upto the culture guess. My cousins have married each other...but the idea grosses me out..mostly because im not in that culture anymore. But yea, if the opposing reason to this is the higher chance of abnormal offsprings, then that is not really sound basis of opposition IMO. I know of plenty of couples belonging to opposite parts of the world who have had children with special needs..more serious ones than any cousin intermarriages I have seen. Yes being half related increases the likelihood of having deleterious genes being collected in the offspring..but doesnt mean it should be forbidden in islam just because of a simple likelihood.
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Salamunalaykom, I really dnt understand y Allah would allow cousins to marry each other especially since theirs evidence the child theyd have has a higher chance of being disabled. I look at my cousins like family, rather than people I can marry n I just can't get my head around this. Does anyone understand what I'm saying? By the way, I am not putting down ppl or cultures who do practice this, I'm just asking for any thoughts... Thnx
Selam
Have I missed something? Could you please reference where this is stated in the AQ? Thanks
Peace
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Verse 3350,
O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
What I personally understand from the above verse, is that marrying cousins, among others, was lawful for the Prophet, pbuh, only.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace,
Salamunalaykom, I really dnt understand y Allah would allow cousins to marry each other especially since theirs evidence the child theyd have has a higher chance of being disabled. I look at my cousins like family, rather than people I can marry n I just can't get my head around this. Does anyone understand what I'm saying? By the way, I am not putting down ppl or cultures who do practice this, I'm just asking for any thoughts... Thnx
You don't have to marry your cousin or anyone you find them detestable for marriage which is a matter of culture and personal taste which those thoughts were put in your head same like eating snails some find horrific while others a treat.
The disease stuff has more to do with probability i.e. if a certain bad gene is inherited the more likely it would be passed down to children from two carriers same with any two unrelated persons carrying the bad genetic code whereas for healthy individuals there is no evidence.
Verse 3350,
O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you;
and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
What I personally understand from the above verse, is that marrying cousins, among others, was lawful for the Prophet, pbuh, only.
Peace,
KhalilI put the break/pause 'and" new sentence in the verse. Also see 422-24 cousins excluded from those forbidden.
http//free-minds.org/quran/PM/4/22
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Peace Ozzi-Kristi Lee
Maybe you should ask yourself where you got this idea that "theirs evidence the child theyd have has a higher chance of being disabled". Is it something that was culturally taught or is there a real scientific basis to it. From what I remember from Science class, there are many different genes that are found on a single loci in our DNA (or something like that), and the closer you are related to someone, the more likely you are then to reduce the diversity there. But how does that actually translate when there is an actual baby. How higher is the chance? Like rraza mentioned unrelated couples have disabled children too. From what I can vaguely remember from taking biology in 1st year in university is that there is an approx 2% chance for unrelated couples to have a child with a birth defect, and 4% for a first cousin marriage.
Having this knowledge, people can decide what they want to do for their own selves. I don't see it as something Allah needed to forbid.
Kukumber
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Verse 3350,
-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers;
What I personally understand from the above verse, is that marrying cousins, among others, was lawful for the Prophet, pbuh, only.peace
may i ask why such a thing would be allowed ONLY for the prophet and nobody else?
i thought quran rules apply to everyone, so why certain things only for him....? -
Peace Ozzi-Kristi Lee
Maybe you should ask yourself where you got this idea that "theirs evidence the child theyd have has a higher chance of being disabled". Is it something that was culturally taught or is there a real scientific basis to it. From what I remember from Science class, there are many different genes that are found on a single loci in our DNA (or something like that), and the closer you are related to someone, the more likely you are then to reduce the diversity there. But how does that actually translate when there is an actual baby. How higher is the chance? Like rraza mentioned unrelated couples have disabled children too. From what I can vaguely remember from taking biology in 1st year in university is that there is an approx 2% chance for unrelated couples to have a child with a birth defect, and 4% for a first cousin marriage.
Having this knowledge, people can decide what they want to do for their own selves. I don't see it as something Allah needed to forbid.
Kukumber
It's intuitive. Let's say one person has a defective gene and another doesnt't. Chance of passing it on (i.e. contribution to child's DNA) = 50%. If both have that gene, chance of passing it on = 100%.
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peace
may i ask why such a thing would be allowed ONLY for the prophet and nobody else?
i thought quran rules apply to everyone, so why certain things only for him....?As far I'm concerned 3350 is in the Quran and not outside the Quran. I think the proper question you want to ask is why God would allow the previous Prophet certain privileges outside of the average acknowledger?
AnswerGod is the true law giver. He is the creator of laws and commandments. Who are we question what he has allowed or what he has disallowed. God grants permission to whom he wills, He exalts whom he wishes. A Prophet and a follower will not have the same tasks. For example, Prophets are responsible for delivering the book not the acknowledgers. It is God who grants certain tasks to whom he wishes of his servants. It is not to us to question who he chooses or why certain laws are granted to one group of people and different laws granted to others. He is our law-giver.
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peace
may i ask why such a thing would be allowed ONLY for the prophet and nobody else?
i thought quran rules apply to everyone, so why certain things only for him....?That is a matter of DIVINE decision and we have no saying in that.
My personal understanding in this particular case is that since the Prophet, pbuh, besides being a religious leader, was also a political leader and a statesman too; he probably had special privileges here and there, becoming distinguished form others. Another thought is that since he was not going to have anymore offspring, it wouldn?t make any difference in the outcome. Anyways, as I said, this is only my personal opinion.
Another example of this, is the verse 2041 below, where GOD, Almighty, informs the prophet Moses that HE had MADE him for HIMSELF!
And I have made you for Myself.
Or in 4164 & 7144, ALLAAH, SWT, SPEAKS to Moses while most of the time GOD communicates by REVELATION.
And (We sent) messengers We have mentioned to you before and messengers we have not mentioned to you, and Allah SPOKE to Moses, speaking (to him)
He said O Musa! Surely I have chosen you above the people with My messages and with My SPEAKING to you, therefore take hold of what I give to you and be of the grateful ones.
Or in 7145, GOD writes His commandments in stone tablets for Moses and he carries the tablets with him to his people.
And We WROTE for him in the tablets admonition of every kind and clear explanation of all things; so take hold of them with firmness and enjoin your people to take hold of what is best thereof; I will show you the abode of the transgressors.
Peace,
Khalil -
It's intuitive. Let's say one person has a defective gene and another doesnt't. Chance of passing it on (i.e. contribution to child's DNA) = 50%. If both have that gene, chance of passing it on = 100%.
Peace OPF.
There are two issues with what you say.
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as rraza mentioned earlier, you could be having a child with someone completely unrelated, who may have the same deleterious gene, and that would increase the chances of having a child with some sort of birth defect.
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Just because you have a certain gene, it does not mean that it will manifest. There are a minimum of 2 genes that control for every trait (one from each parent), and most deleterious traits with a chance of being passed on are recessive, as dominant ones usually render you unable to have children. So your percentages are off. If the dad has one bad gene and one good gene, and the mom has 2 good genes, the child has a 100% chance of getting a good gene from his mom, and 50% of getting a good one from his dad, which leads him to having a 25% chance of being a carrier of this defective gene, and 0% of actually having a birth defect. If both mom and dad have one bad gene each, there is a 25% chance, the child will not even be a carrier, 50% chance of being a carrier, and 25% chance of there being an actual physical manifestation of a birth defect. And that is a very simplistic view, most traits are controlled by much more than 2 genes. For example, hair colour, and eye colour are traits that are controlled by 6 genes (three from each parent).
Also, first cousins having children does not increase the total number of deleterious genes that exist in a population, as there is no evidence that first cousins have on average more children than the general population. This is reference to you quoting your percentages as the chance of the gene being passed on. The gene of one parent has an equal chance of being passed on, regardless of who the other parent of the child is.
That also does not include the random mutations that occur when chromosomes combine, with every child that is made. the mutations can of course be positive, negative and neutral.
And we don't see the outcome in real life of what is being alluded to here, a higher number of birth defects.
So its intuitive to me, why there was no need for it to be forbidden.
Kukumber.
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Argument #1 is entirely irrelevant. Dragons from outer space could impregnate your wife and the child may then be born with Alzheimer's syndrome and 6 legs.
Argument #2, I agree. I'm not concerned by the intricacies, I am just pointing out that daddy contributes 50% and mommy contributes 50% so by whatever rules of statistics, things will happen.
In truth, I take a very clean-room materialist perspective on reality. Anything is possible within the space of reality and I do not judge it as right or wrong, it is what it is. For instance I presently don't have a clue about the truthful nature of zina in the quran. However when ALLAH says in the quran that it is forbidden, I do not question why but rather I simply keep it in my pants until I know exactly what is going on. Thus one avoids both the pain and illusory bliss of ignorance. This ALLAH character tends to usually be correct for some odd reason, almost as if He created everythign that exists or something.
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Peace OPF
Argument 1 is entirely relevant, as unrelated parents can have children with birth defects, just as related parents can. Also when we have such a thing as genetic testing, it becomes even more relevant. If through genetic testing we find out an unrelated couple both carry a recessive gene, therefore having a 25% chance of having a child with whatever "defect" that gene causes, how is that different from a related couple finding out the same thing.
Anyways to each their own, if someone wants to marry their first cousin, they can go ahead, its none of my business. I don't interpret the Quran as saying first cousin marriages are forbidden, and I don't see any negative real-life outcomes from first cousins getting married, any greater than any other couple getting married.
People can get grossed out by first-cousin marriages, that's perfectly ok, but its an emotional reaction, and not one that is really grounded in any fact.
Kukumber
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That is a matter of DIVINE decision and we have no saying in that.
AnswerGod is the true law giver. He is the creator of laws and commandments. Who are we question what he has allowed or what he has disallowed. God grants permission to whom he wills, He exalts whom he wishes. A Prophet and a follower will not have the same tasks. For example, Prophets are responsible for delivering the book not the acknowledgers. It is God who grants certain tasks to whom he wishes of his servants. It is not to us to question who he chooses or why certain laws are granted to one group of people and different laws granted to others. He is our law-giver.
ok are these actual serious answers?
unbelievable...first of all.... divine? its a divine decision to allow a prophet something yet not for others and mention it in a book sent to ALL humans... hmm
second of all... who am i to question? im a follower who doesnt want to blindly follow something he doesnt undertsand, yes i will question everything...so why, why is that written about the prophet, seems less likely for a God to say that, more likely that a human would say it... but whatever....
i still wanna know, a real logical researched answer pls
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ok are these actual serious answers?
unbelievable...first of all.... divine? its a divine decision to allow a prophet something yet not for others and mention it in a book sent to ALL humans... hmm
second of all... who am i to question? im a follower who doesnt want to blindly follow something he doesnt undertsand, yes i will question everything...so why, why is that written about the prophet, seems less likely for a God to say that, more likely that a human would say it... but whatever....
i still wanna know, a real logical researched answer pls
2247 Their prophet said to them, "God has sent Saul to you as a king." They said, "How can he have the kingship when we are more deserving than him, and he has not been given an abundance of wealth?" He said, "God has chosen him over you and increased him in knowledge and stature." God grants His sovereignty to whom He chooses; and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
3037 Did they not see that God grants the provisions for whom He wills, and He is able? In that are signs for a people who acknowledge.
3160 If God grants you victory then none can defeat you, and if He abandons you then who can grant you victory after Him? In God, those who acknowledge should put their trust.
There is no other answer to your question. God grants knowledge, power, Kingship and messenger-ship to which ever of his servants he wishes. The same is true with this life. God made the animals subservient to us (humans). He mad the angels controllers of provision for us. God is the King of Kings, The All Powerful. Do you know better than him in regards to which of his servants should be granted what and which shouldn't? My advice to you brother is to conquer your ego. If you cannot conquer your ego you will not be guided. Pride and arrogance is not a trait of a sincere believer. Like it or not we do not have a say in regards who is granted what and who isn't. This can only be determined by God.
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Dear Readers,
After careful revaluation of 3350 and 423 it appears that the marriage of cousins is permitted among believers. The last prophet was the only person who was permitted to take wifes who had decreed themselves to him without a dowry.
Marriage of Cousins permitted
423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, your foster mothers who suckled you, your sisters from suckling, the mothers of your wives, and your step-daughters residing in your homes from your wives which you have already consummated the marriage with; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and the wives of your sons that are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
424 The women who are already married, except those whom you have contractual rights, God's book is over you; and permitted for you is what is beyond this, if you are seeking with your money to be protected and not for illicit sex. As for those whom you have already had joy with them, then you shall give them their wage as an obligation. There is no sin upon you for what you agree to after the obligation. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.No dowry is necessary-
3350 O prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have already given their dowry, and the one who is committed to you by oath, as granted to you by God, and the daughters of your father's brothers, and the daughters of your father's sisters, and the daughters of your mother's brothers, and the daughters of your mother's sisters, of whom they have emigrated with you. Also, the acknowledging woman who had decreed herself to the prophet, the prophet may marry her if he wishes, as a privilege given only to you and not to those who acknowledge. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses and those who are still dependants. This is to spare you any hardship. God is Forgiver, Compassionate. - Edip/layth
3350 O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. -Rashad Khalifa
My misinterpretation came about because of the lack of study in this particular subject. Marriage is the last thing on my mind (because of my age and other circumstances)
Peace,
Kevin.